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View Full Version : Where should I go from here?



Con
08-22-2007, 07:15 AM
As of last friday(couple days after these pics)I am 168.4 pounds and 5'9".

Im small, weak, and looking for improvements mainly in strength, but aesthetics are not completely unimportant.

Im just wondering what some people would suggest for me.

~ 168.4 ~ pounds (http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g236/con_nick/August%2014%202007/)

Currently doing Bill Starrs 5x5. Am I at a decent bodyfat% to finally start striving for some strength and maybe even size gains?

Thanks for any input.

bamaboy5125
08-22-2007, 07:48 AM
Geez, you have frikken tree stumps as legs. I would eat at matience and continue to do the 5x5.

Talking_God
08-22-2007, 09:29 AM
Wow man, your legs are definitely a strongpoint. Keep doing the 5x5 and eat about 300-500 cals above maintanence. You'll get bigger and stronger, plain as that.

Outshine
08-22-2007, 09:50 AM
Those legs an insane dude. These are the most backwards pics I've ever seen. 99.9999% of the time, a person has a good upper body and no legs. This is the complete opposite. Take that as a compliment, my friend.

Like Talking_God, eat 300-500 cals above maintenance and continue with 5x5, especially since your goals are mainly strength related. You look to be at a fine bodyfat for bulking. Go for it.

And whatever you're doing for those legs... keep doing that. ;)

Jordanbcool
08-22-2007, 09:55 AM
I agree. I think bulking is a good idea right now. You'll make strength gains on a cut but eventually you will stall on all your lifts.

I would do a slow clean bulk. You're at a healthy/average bodyfat which isn't really a bad thing. I think a low bodyfat percentage is unrealistic for most people. Just concentrate on making small but steady improvements each year.

Doing Bill starr's 5x5 program during the bulk is a good idea if you still want to do that. Just keep track of your calories though so you don't "over-bulk". Good luck :)

Con
08-22-2007, 10:40 AM
Geez, you have frikken tree stumps as legs. I would eat at matience and continue to do the 5x5.

Thanks for the input.


Wow man, your legs are definitely a strongpoint. Keep doing the 5x5 and eat about 300-500 cals above maintanence. You'll get bigger and stronger, plain as that.

Yea, that seems reasonable, but I just dont like the idea of turning into a fat boy again.



Like Talking_God, eat 300-500 cals above maintenance and continue with 5x5, especially since your goals are mainly strength related. You look to be at a fine bodyfat for bulking. Go for it.

And whatever you're doing for those legs... keep doing that.

Just out of cruisoity, whats a "fine bodyfat"? I just want to do this the right way instead of going with the flow type of thing. If I need to make adjustments, Ill do it.

And my legs HAVE to be all genetic. Nothing special for them, hell I probably even overtrained them for like two months, and got no adverse affects.


I would do a slow clean bulk. You're at a healthy/average bodyfat which isn't really a bad thing. I think a low bodyfat percentage is unrealistic for most people. Just concentrate on making small but steady improvements each year.

Doing Bill starr's 5x5 program during the bulk is a good idea if you still want to do that. Just keep track of your calories though so you don't "over-bulk". Good luck

What did you mean by this? I was under the impression, and still am, that a person can achieve just about any reasonable goal given the right application and knowledge. Oh yeah and time too.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

ray34iyf
08-22-2007, 10:47 AM
Hmm....depends on what you want the most right now. Me, personally, I would cut down to a low BF(~9-10%), and then start a nice, slow clean bulk...until you reach about 13-14% and repeat.

Read this article if you haven't already.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

I'm following the guidelines that it sets and sticking to it indefinitely. I'm sitting at ~160lbs, 13-14%, and am using UD 2.0 to cut to 8-9%. I then hope to stay in the 8-13 range for good while I creep to 200 or so lbs. When you want to cut, it'll be much easier if you are at 13%, rather than upwards of 17-18%.

...but, it depends on what you want. If being at a low BF isn't all that important, then screw it and bulk and watch your strength increase. But personally, I'm not all that happy of a guy when I feel/look fat...but you're not me.

ray34iyf
08-22-2007, 10:47 AM
Oh, and awesome tree trunks there. I wish my legs were that thick!

ray34iyf
08-22-2007, 11:13 AM
Not to mention that the leaner you are, the better nutrient partioning is and the easier it is to gain muscle as opposed to fat.

Jordanbcool
08-22-2007, 11:17 AM
What did you mean by this? I was under the impression, and still am, that a person can achieve just about any reasonable goal given the right application and knowledge. Oh yeah and time too.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I'm saying that for most people its simply an unrealistic goal. Not saying it can't be done or that its impossible. No, not at all. You can cut down to a low bodyfat percentage. Its just very hard. For many many reasons. Its just not how our bodies are designed. To be big and lean. So it takes considerable effort and many years to attain an above average physique.

Also. Unless you're competing you don't really need a super-low bodyfat anyways. A healthy bodyfat is fine. A low bodyfat is IDEAL but not "required" to have a good bulk. The bodyfat you're at now is perfectly fine to start bulking from. I wouldn't consider you lean but you're def. not overweight or fat at all.

Con
08-22-2007, 11:17 AM
Hmm....depends on what you want the most right now. Me, personally, I would cut down to a low BF(~9-10%), and then start a nice, slow clean bulk...until you reach about 13-14% and repeat.

Read this article if you haven't already.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

I'm following the guidelines that it sets and sticking to it indefinitely. I'm sitting at ~160lbs, 13-14%, and am using UD 2.0 to cut to 8-9%. I then hope to stay in the 8-13 range for good while I creep to 200 or so lbs. When you want to cut, it'll be much easier if you are at 13%, rather than upwards of 17-18%.

...but, it depends on what you want. If being at a low BF isn't all that important, then screw it and bulk and watch your strength increase. But personally, I'm not all that happy of a guy when I feel/look fat...but you're not me.


Well I am just coming off a long dieting phase, probably too long, but I learned a lot.

I was curious about what my bf% is specifically becuase of the noiton about getting lean before bulking. Im not looking to all out bulk, but If I do put on some weight in my quest for strength, Id rather be primed for the best posible ratio for muscle:fat gain.

And I can definately understand mood being affetced by how you look. I think my situation is an extreme case of that. Now That I am leaner tho, Ive calmed down, becuase I know what Im capable of given time and smart choices.

Thanks, tho, you gave me plenty to think about.

Jordanbcool
08-22-2007, 11:20 AM
Well I am just coming off a long dieting phase, probably too long, but I learned a lot.

I was curious about what my bf% is specifically becuase of the noiton about getting lean before bulking. Im not looking to all out bulk, but If I do put on some weight in my quest for strength, Id rather be primed for the best posible ratio for muscle:fat gain.

And I can definately understand mood being affetced by how you look. I think my situation is an extreme case of that. Now That I am leaner tho, Ive calmed down, becuase I know what Im capable of given time and smart choices.

Thanks, tho, you gave me plenty to think about.

Muscle to fat ratio is mainly dependent on diet and not necessarily bodyfat.

Partitioning depends on a host of factors. Its misleading to try and link it to only one.

Con
08-22-2007, 11:20 AM
I'm saying that for most people its simply an unrealistic goal. Not saying it can't be done or that its impossible. No, not at all. You can cut down to a low bodyfat percentage. Its just very hard. For many many reasons. Its just not how our bodies are designed. To be big and lean. So it takes considerable effort and many years to attain an above average physique.

Also. Unless you're competing you don't really need a super-low bodyfat anyways. A healthy bodyfat is fine. A low bodyfat is IDEAL but not "required" to have a good bulk. The bodyfat you're at now is perfectly fine to start bulking from. I wouldn't consider you lean but you're def. not overweight or fat at all.

I see. And I understand I will not become big and lean overnight, or even in the next year. Im just curious as to the best way to get started.

Btw, whats super low bf to you? For me, I think 10% is low, but thats probably becuase Ive been fat/obese all my life.

Jordanbcool
08-22-2007, 11:23 AM
I see. And I understand I will not become big and lean overnight, or even in the next year. Im just curious as to the best way to get started.

Btw, whats super low bf to you? For me, I think 10% is low, but thats probably becuase Ive been fat/obese all my life.

1) For now. I think you should bulk. Thats just my opinion. Plus, you've been cutting for a while now so it'll be good to give yourself a little break while you bulk. You'll gain alot of out of it. Strength and size.

2) 10% to me is a lean bodyfat in my opinion but not "low". I consider low to be sub 9% atleast. That is when you really start getting into the extremely low bodyfat percentages.

ray34iyf
08-22-2007, 11:23 AM
The thing that happened with me was, when you bulk until you start reaching a higher BF, I tend to not be able to give everything I have. I start telling myself "Oh man, I'm getting fat again, I can't keep doing this or I'll get fatter". My drive and motivation to get bigger and stronger tended to wane because I was afraid of gaining more weight and getting fatter..so one day I said, F%%% this, I'm leaning down and never getting fat again.
I would just bite the bullet for a good 6 weeks and be done with worrying about being overfat again. Take a look into UD 2.0. From what I've experienced, it's effing hard, especially starting out, but I believe it'll be worth it. Good luck with whatever you choose.

Jordanbcool
08-22-2007, 11:25 AM
I would always rather be big and strong then lean any day. I hate feeling weak.....Plus I've always been a fatter person so being fat doesn't really bother me as much as being small does.

Ah. Why fight genetics? If my body likes being fat I'll let it be fat while I get bigger and bigger. :)

ray34iyf
08-22-2007, 11:28 AM
Well, it depends. If you don't mind being a bit fatter, then that's great. It's all about you and your self esteem and confidence. Personally, I can't handle being heavier fatty wise, because I was always picked on for being the fat kid. If your goal in the long run is to be big and lean, I would cut down first and look relatively lean the whole way through..but it depends on what you're comfortable with.

Herandi
08-22-2007, 02:41 PM
as stated by others, legs lookin really good man, also i saw some of your old pics and great improvement on leaning out

Con
08-23-2007, 10:17 AM
Jordan, Ray, thanks a lot. You both gave me things to think about. Ill think it over and make my decision. Right now I gotta find maintenance cals before anything.

Hernandi - Thanks. I thought this year was going to be a complete waste. Im happy that I can say I made progress toward my goals. Time to set the bar higher I suppose...

hulkinout
10-26-2007, 10:21 AM
Coming to this thread late, but I notice that none of the photo links work anymore.

Where in NJ are you, man? I grew up in Edison.

Con
10-26-2007, 02:45 PM
Coming to this thread late, but I notice that none of the photo links work anymore.

Where in NJ are you, man? I grew up in Edison.

Pics, if you are still interested. (http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g236/con_nick/October%2019%202007/)

Wow, I look sick.

Anyway, I am about 30 minutes away from Atlantic City, in Atlantic County.

Never heard of Edison, but then again, there are lots of places I havent heard of.

Where are you at now?