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wearymachine
08-28-2007, 01:18 PM
Hey...so after football season ends, I wanna train for my first powerlifting meet that i plan to do sometime next June or so...I have a sample routine, and I want some feedback about it...its a 5 day routine, and I'm not sure if this whole thing is somewhat "overtraining" or something...

ok, so before i post the workout, lemme just say that what I posted is week 5...its a 13 week program (12 weeks of lifting followed by one week of testing)...now the main lifts here (squat, bench, clean, incline bench, and deadlift), the reps are gonna go 8-8-6-6-5-4-4-3-3-2-2-1, over the 12 weeks of lifting...so as u can see, this is week 5, so i'm doing sets of 5

so here's the workout...

Monday

Squat 4 x 5 Dips 4 x 6
Hang Snatch 4 x 5 Bicep Curls 4 x 6
DB Press 4 x 6 Tricep Kicks 4 x 6
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 6 DB Rear Raises 4 x 6
4 x 150 m sprints

Tuesday

Benchpress 4 x 5 DB Rows 4 x 6
Front Squat 4 x 5 DB Flyes 4 x 6
DB Bench 4 x 6 Cable Crossover 4 x 6
Bar Pull Ups 4 x 6 DB Incline Fly 4 x 6
2 x (40-60-80 yd sprints)

Thursday

Cleans 4 x 5 DB Step Ups 4 x 6
Push Press 4 x 5 Side Lunge 4 x 6
BB Front Lunge 4 x 6 One Leg Sqt 4 x 6
BB Calf Raises 4 x 6 Phantom Squat 4 x 30 sec
4 x Leg Cranks (an intense leg workout so horrible, it'll leave your legs feeling like they were raped by a blender)

Friday

Incline Bench 4 x 5 Tricep Ext 4 x 6
Military Press 4 x 5 DB Curls 4 x 6
Tricep Push Down 4 x 6 Incl DB Bench 4 x 6
Bicep Curls 4 x 6 DB Rot. Press 4 x 6
Core Workout (Currently Under Construction)

Saturday

Deadlift 4 x 5 Back Extension 4 x 6
As-low-as-can-go Squat 4 x 5 1 leg DB deads 4 x 6
Romanian Deadlift 4 x 6 DB Deadlift 4 x 6
Good Mornings 4 x 6 DB Rom. Deads 4 x 6
4 x 40 yd sled sprints w/ 45 lbs on the sled
4 x 20 yd sled sprints w/ 90 lbs on the sled




*****Before each workout, half mile warm up...followed by dynamic warm up (like skips, high knee runs...so forth)...
followed by some plyometric jump movements*****

so yea...any ideas / suggestions to this??

thanks!!

IZich
08-28-2007, 01:20 PM
Are you still in high school? If so, my initial thoughts are that I'm impressed you're already doing sled work.

At another glance, your split seems to be pretty haphazard (i.e. random movements everywhere). Unless I'm mistaken, it seems like there's no emphasized movement or primary "powerlifting" exercise at each workout. You may want to design each workout around a main exercise.

Throw out the kickbacks, man.

I'm sure more experienced guys will comment as well - my guess is that they'll tell you to do some form of Westside, as it works awesomely for PLing.

What are your goals? Increasing PL total? Getting better at football?

wearymachine
08-28-2007, 05:47 PM
nah i'm a senior in college...and actually its ironic cause the sled work IS from high school...i never touched a sled at college...

well...see, monday, tuesday, and thursday are pretty much our college's summer lifting for football, and they made my squat, bench, and clean go up a whole lot...my bench went from 240 to 265 in 3 months, my squat went from 390 to 440 in that time, and my cleans went from 225 to 250 in 3 months...so i know it works well...the only problem i have is w/ adding the two extra days (friday and saturday)...i just wanna know if that's overtraining or not...

Bako Lifter
08-28-2007, 05:50 PM
That's not really powerlifting...

What's your theory behind this?


the reps are gonna go 8-8-6-6-5-4-4-3-3-2-2-1, over the 12 weeks of lifting...

IZich
08-28-2007, 05:56 PM
Oh cool, college football. Go Bruins.

You might want to consider doing speed work on the two extra days if you're goal is to increase your PL total (or even just explosiveness). Speed days (Dynamic Effort) are generally lighter in volume than the other days, so you'd be steered way clear of overtraining. :thumbup:

wearymachine
08-28-2007, 07:48 PM
in response to Bako Lifter's comment...like idk what it is really...like, monday, tuesday, and thursday are pretty much taken off of our football's summer routine...and that routine really, and i mean REALLY, helped out my squat, bench , and hang clean...so i mean if it worked that well the first time, i kinda wanna keep it...

and well the idea behind friday is just like a day to help out the upper body a little bit...give a little boost to the bench...and saturday...that's a deadlift day pretty much...friday and saturday are add-ons to the original football workout

RhodeHouse
08-28-2007, 07:53 PM
Why change the football program if it worked? The wheel works. Would you change it?

Goals? Powerlifting? Strength?

IZich
08-28-2007, 09:21 PM
The wheel works. Would you change it?


Dude, that should be your catchphrase. :p

RhodeHouse
08-28-2007, 09:31 PM
Thanks Izich. I try my best to keep it simple.

wearymachine
08-29-2007, 08:31 AM
see, over the summer, i'd actually put in an extra day of lifting on saturday...the saturday lift would have an upperbody lifting workout (to help the bench) followed by leg cranks (which are speed squats, lunges, lunge jumps, and squat jumps, all free weight...and they're REALLY tough on the legs)...so i think that helped out my squat...

ok, i wanna do a powerlifting meet, but for that, i need to ALSO work on the deadlift...so that's my concern right now...that's why i changed the saturday to a deadlift workout...but when i did that, i realized that i got rid of the upper body day, so i put in ANOTHER extra day on friday for the upper body workout

now, i AM giving myself enough time to let my muscles recover right??

WillKuenzel
08-29-2007, 09:57 AM
Looks just like too much fluff. I'd drop about 2-4 exercises from each of those workouts. I'd focus more on the primary exercises.

Read these articles, learn to do max effort work. If you are training for a powerlifting competition, this'll be key.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/beginner_mistakes_jimw.htm
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/max_effort_easy.htm
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/max_effort_mistakes.htm

If you are new to powerlifting, I think most beginners don't learn what the true measure of intensity is. Having played football in college, I would hope that you do. Apply that to your max effort work. It's intensity for that first main exercise that'll drive your performance up. Other exercises after that, aren't as important unless you just have a glaring weakness.

wearymachine
09-01-2007, 01:48 PM
alrite...one thing that i'm sure most of you haven't noticed yet, and that i perhaps forgot to leave out, that each exercise that u see lined up next to each other is a superset...so w/ that being said...here's the revised version of the workout

Monday

Squat 4 x 5 superset w/ Dips 4 x 6
Hang Snatch 4 x 5 " " Bicep Curls 4 x 6
DB Press 4 x 6 " " Tricep Kicks 4 x 6
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 6 " " DB Rear Raises4 x 6
4 x 150 m sprints

Tuesday

Benchpress 4 x 5 " " DB Rows4 x 6
Front Squat 4 x 5 " " DB Flyes 4 x 6
DB Bench 4 x 6 " " Cable Crossover4 x 6
Bar Pull Ups 4 x 6 " " DB Incline Fly4 x 6
2 x (40-60-80 yd sprints)

Thursday

Cleans 4 x 5 " " DB Step Ups 4 x 6
Push Press 4 x 5 " " Side Lunge 4 x 6
BB Front Lunge 4 x 6 " " One Leg Sqt 4 x 6
BB Calf Raises 4 x 6 " " Phantom Squat4 x 30 sec
4 x Leg Cranks (a BEASTLY/MONSTEROUS leg workout)

Friday

Incline Bench 4 x 5 " " Tricep Ext 4 x 6
Military Press 4 x 5 " " DB Curls 4 x 6
Tricep Push Down 4 x 6 " " Incl DB Bench 4 x 6
Bicep Curls 4 x 6 " " DB Rot. Press 4 x 6
Core Workout (Currently Under Construction)

Saturday

Deadlift 4 x 5 " " Back Extension 4 x 6
Deep Squat 4 x 5 " " 1 leg DB deads 4 x 6
Romanian Deadlift 4 x 6 " " DB Deadlift 4 x 6
Good Mornings 4 x 6 " " DB Rom. Deads 4 x 6
4 x 40 yd sled sprints w/ 45 lbs on the sled
4 x 20 yd sled sprints w/ 90 lbs on the sled

*** PLEASE NOTE THAT " " DENOTES A SUPERSET

*****Before each workout, half mile warm up...followed by dynamic warm up (like skips, high knee runs...so forth)...
followed by some plyometric jump movements*****

nhlfan
09-01-2007, 03:20 PM
if you're supersetting everything, I wouldn't really call it a powerlifting routine.

wearymachine
09-01-2007, 03:34 PM
wait what's the difference then??

look, its not even a big deal its a "powerlifting routine" or not...all i need to know is that if my idea is gonna do a pretty damn good job of boosting my squat, bench, clean, and deadlift so i can do well at a powerlifting meet...

nhlfan
09-01-2007, 04:23 PM
I commonly hear that taking relatively long breaks between sets is the best when doing strength work.

WillKuenzel
09-01-2007, 05:52 PM
wait what's the difference then??

look, its not even a big deal its a "powerlifting routine" or not...all i need to know is that if my idea is gonna do a pretty damn good job of boosting my squat, bench, clean, and deadlift so i can do well at a powerlifting meet...Honestly, then, no, it's not going to do the job of boosting your squat, bench, clean and deadlift. You want to get better at powerlifting, stick to the things that work. Supersets aren't going to do that.

wearymachine
09-01-2007, 09:32 PM
well to be honest, this summer it boosted my squat, bench, and clean...but the thing is i'm tryin to boost the deadlift too...see my issue is throwing in the two extra workouts

ok, this summer, i did the monday, tuesday, thursday workout, and i put an extra upper body day on saturday...and that really helped my squat, bench, and clean...my squat went from 390 to 440, my bench went from 240 to 265, and my clean went from 225 to 250...but realizing that for powerlifting, i need a good DEADLIFT as well, now i'm replacing saturday w/ a deadlift day...but the problem w/ that is the extra upperbody day, previously done on saturdays, that could have very well helped my bench and cleans, is no longer...so i moved that to friday...but now what's kinda giving me concerns is that i have a 5 day a week workout, which might give me problems w/ letting my muscles recover fully...

w/ respect to supersets...they have always worked for me, and i'm not JUST powerlifting...i'm also training for sprints as well...

ok, wait why do ppl say that supersets don't work?? what's the theory behind that??

RhodeHouse
09-02-2007, 11:08 AM
alrite...one thing that i'm sure most of you haven't noticed yet, and that i perhaps forgot to leave out, that each exercise that u see lined up next to each other is a superset...so w/ that being said...here's the revised version of the workout

Monday

Squat 4 x 5 superset w/ Dips 4 x 6
Hang Snatch 4 x 5 " " Bicep Curls 4 x 6
DB Press 4 x 6 " " Tricep Kicks 4 x 6
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 6 " " DB Rear Raises4 x 6
4 x 150 m sprints

Tuesday

Benchpress 4 x 5 " " DB Rows4 x 6
Front Squat 4 x 5 " " DB Flyes 4 x 6
DB Bench 4 x 6 " " Cable Crossover4 x 6
Bar Pull Ups 4 x 6 " " DB Incline Fly4 x 6
2 x (40-60-80 yd sprints)

Thursday

Cleans 4 x 5 " " DB Step Ups 4 x 6
Push Press 4 x 5 " " Side Lunge 4 x 6
BB Front Lunge 4 x 6 " " One Leg Sqt 4 x 6
BB Calf Raises 4 x 6 " " Phantom Squat4 x 30 sec
4 x Leg Cranks (a BEASTLY/MONSTEROUS leg workout)

Friday

Incline Bench 4 x 5 " " Tricep Ext 4 x 6
Military Press 4 x 5 " " DB Curls 4 x 6
Tricep Push Down 4 x 6 " " Incl DB Bench 4 x 6
Bicep Curls 4 x 6 " " DB Rot. Press 4 x 6
Core Workout (Currently Under Construction)

Saturday

Deadlift 4 x 5 " " Back Extension 4 x 6
Deep Squat 4 x 5 " " 1 leg DB deads 4 x 6
Romanian Deadlift 4 x 6 " " DB Deadlift 4 x 6
Good Mornings 4 x 6 " " DB Rom. Deads 4 x 6
4 x 40 yd sled sprints w/ 45 lbs on the sled
4 x 20 yd sled sprints w/ 90 lbs on the sled

*** PLEASE NOTE THAT " " DENOTES A SUPERSET

*****Before each workout, half mile warm up...followed by dynamic warm up (like skips, high knee runs...so forth)...
followed by some plyometric jump movements*****

This is terrible for powerlifting. You don't want to hear what people have to say. If you think it works, go for it. Anyone that knows anything about strength will tell you , this sucks. Lift away!

wearymachine
09-02-2007, 12:05 PM
alrite...well any suggestions on what to change...or what to do instead??

now keep in mind that i'm doing both powerlifting AND dash training...

daved931
09-05-2007, 08:54 AM
alrite...well any suggestions on what to change...or what to do instead??

now keep in mind that i'm doing both powerlifting AND dash training...

It may be tough to find a compromise between powerlifting and dash training.

Eat big, lift big, sleep big.

You may want to try some sort of Westside Template. It works very well for a couple of guys I lift with.

Basically, you want to have a max effort (ME) and a dynamic effort (DE) or "speed day" for each lift you'll be competing in.

My suggestion:

If Monday was your ME squat day, you would work up to four sets of your one rep max. Then you would do a lower back exercise like SLDLs for four sets of eight. Then you'd do four sets of abs and some lat exercises like lat pull-downs. Again, four sets of 8 - 12.

Tuesday would be your ME bench day. Work up to four sets of your one RM. Then do JM Presses or closegrip bench to help your lockout strength. Again, four sets of eight or so. Do some DB front shoulder raises for four sets of 8 - 12. Then do some DB curls for three sets of 8 - 12.

Take Wendesday off from lifting and do your running for your dash training.

Thursday would be your first DE day. Box squat 10 sets of doubles at 60% of your one RM. Do lower back work just like day one--pick a lower back exercise and do four sets of 8 - 12. Four sets of side bends for 8 - 12 reps. Do some neck work.

Friday would be DE bench day. Speed bench ten triples at 50% of your one RM. Do tricep work just like on day 2 and do lat work just like on day 1.

Saturday go running again.

There are tons of options in addition to this stuff. Bands, chains, etc. I think you will have a hard time putting on mass and gaining a lot of strength while attempting to build running speed. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it will be hard.

wearymachine
09-11-2007, 09:37 AM
hmmm that sounds like good advice...BUT, i gotta throw in deadlift in there as well...deadlift along w/ hang cleans, cause i do wanna keep a personal record of my hang cleans as well...so any advice how to make up the ME/DE routine that way??

wearymachine
10-02-2007, 09:20 AM
alright...i sorta redid my plan here...here's how it goes...

Sample Week

Monday

Squat 4 x 4

Hang Snatch 4 x 5

DB Overhead Squat 4 x 6 superset w/ DB Press 4 x 6

DB Step Ups 4 x 6 superset w/ DB Shrugs 4 x 6

Running: 4 x 150 m sprints

Tuesday

Bench Press 4 x 4

Incline Bench 4 x 5

DB Bench 4 x 6 superset w/ Tricep Kickbacks 4 x 6

DB Flies 4 x 6 superset w/ Overhead Tricep Press 4 x 6

A core workout after the lift

Thursday

Hang Cleans 4 x 4

Front Squat 4 x 5

Explosive Squat 4 x 6 superset w/ DB Hammer Curls 4 x 6

Lateral Lunge 4 x 6 superset w/ DB Curls 4 x 6

Running: 4 x 40m, 4 x 40m w/ tire or sled

Saturday

Deadlift 4 x 4

Push Press 4 x 5

Lateral Raises 4 x 6 superset w/ DB Upright Rows 4 x 6

Good Mornings 4 x 6 superset w/ Front Raises 4 x 6

Some speed drills after that




So...given all that...hows this routine for somebody training for powerlifting, olympic lifting, as well as short sprints??? I, sure as hell, think it looks good this time...any feedback??

RhodeHouse
10-03-2007, 10:00 AM
Squatting 2x a week and DLing on a 3rd day is terrible.

There's no back work at all. Where are the rows, pull-ups and the like? Not to be a jerk, but your program is not good at all. Regardless of the progress you made, it won't last for long. You're going to develope lots of weaknesses and imbalances.

Bob
10-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Besides agreeing with Rhodehouse...
Looks like you didn't follow a lot of the other advice on this thread...
Supersets?? Y?
Tricep Kickbacks?? Y?
150M sprints?? Y?
2 months since you started this thread and you still haven't Deadlifted?? Y?

Did you read the EliteFTS artiles that HomeYeild pointed you too?

wearymachine
10-03-2007, 06:10 PM
well first off i'm not deadlifting since football season hasn't ended yet...and i'm not starting this program till football ends

2nd off...the 150m sprints...that's cause i'm also training to be a sprinter as well as a powerlifter...

yea i guess i'll put in some back work into the routine...i got some rows in there...i can't do regular rows cause part of the time, i'm gonna be working out at the old high school weight room, and they don't have the row machine...i got plenty of DB Rows in there tho...

so u guys are saying NO SUPERSETS AT ALL???

RhodeHouse
10-03-2007, 09:38 PM
Sprinting and powerlifting? I'm gonna be a salsa dancer and a sumo wrestler. You're training for 2 completely different things. Have fun with that.

No machines for back? You really need to get caught up on weight training. Bent over rows, pull-ups - you don't need machines for that.

Lones Green
10-04-2007, 03:24 AM
Sprinting and powerlifting? I'm gonna be a salsa dancer and a sumo wrestler. You're training for 2 completely different things. Have fun with that.

No machines for back? You really need to get caught up on weight training. Bent over rows, pull-ups - you don't need machines for that.

this is true. it seems like every post you make is quoteable, rhodes.

wearymachine
10-06-2007, 03:04 PM
yea...i got bent over rows in there somewhere...if i dont...well i kno i have them overall in the routine...

hmm ok yea pull ups...i'll def do those...now i'm horrible at them...i can only do like 6 or so...so how what kind of sets should i do w/ pull ups...should i just do sets to failure until i can do a certain number of reps???

what other good back exercises should i do???

wearymachine
10-06-2007, 03:07 PM
two other things...i dont see why its so impossible to train for sprints and powerlifting at the same time...short sprints is all about power...and two of the best sprinters i know also win powerlifting meets for their weight classes (181 and 198)..

and about the superset thing...sorry if i seem so stubborn about them...but ever since i started lifting...for like high school football, high school track, and now college football...our coaches ALWAYS made us do supersets...and it seemed to have worked thus far...so i'm kinda reluctant to start a new routine that doesn't use them...if u guys have any specific reasons as to why they're a horrible idea...please share...i'm on all ears here (or eyes since i'm reading haha)...

wearymachine
10-08-2007, 11:52 AM
alrite guys so after a lot of thought, i've decided to ankle supersets...that ship has sailed...so now i'm just gonna do regular sets...so i'm designing a new routine...ok, so the plan is as follows.....

i'm gonna do four sets of each exercise...now what i'm tryin to figure out is how many exercises to do each day...i initially thought four sets of six exercises...which is still the most possible for me since i can get a good amount of exercises in, and at the same time, not spend too long to the point where the workout starts to lose effectiveness...

so how is that?? 6 exercises per lift...4 sets of each exercise??? cause the alternative is 8 exercises, 4 sets of each...8 exercises gives me more options to choose from, but the workout might start to get a bit long...so any advice on that guys???

RhodeHouse
10-08-2007, 12:30 PM
4-5 exercises tops. Choose wisely. Compound movements only.

wearymachine
10-09-2007, 08:42 AM
alrite...any reason for not putting any isolated movements in there??? are they bad for powerlifting??

RhodeHouse
10-09-2007, 08:54 AM
Read the powerlifting articles on EliteFTS.com. Every piece of advice you're given, you have to question. If you're not gonna listen, stop asking questions.

wearymachine
10-09-2007, 10:06 AM
no no...dont get me wrong here...i'm listening...i'm actually designing the new workout based on your advice about the 4 sets of 5 exercises (all compound exercises)...thanks for that...


ok, so i read the articles...and that's all about max effort training...so i dont get one thing...like i over a 12 week program, i wanna vary my reps...start off at 8 reps at the first week...and go something like this week by week

week 1: 8 reps
week 2: 8 reps
week3: 6 reps
week 4: 6 reps
week 5: 5 reps
week 6: 4 reps
week 7: 4 reps
week 8: 3 reps
week 9: 3 reps
week 10: 2 reps
week 11: 2 reps
week 12: 1 rep

so how would i go about doing max effort for that?? keep in mind i'm doing 4 sets...

and btw, again, thanks for ur advice...if u think i'm not listening...i am...trust me on that

RhodeHouse
10-09-2007, 07:03 PM
You want to powerlift, right? How do you think you get used to handling heavy weights? Max Effort method. Go read the articles and follow them. Also, check out WS4SB3 (Westside For Skinny Bastards 3) on EliteFTS. That's more your speed. I gave you the answer. The program has already been designed for you. No need to do it on your own.

Max Effort = 1-3 reps
Instead of Dynamic Effort, use the Repetition method = 8-15 reps

The next post should read something like this. I read it, and I'm following it to the letter. Anything else, is the wrong answer. If you came to me in person and pulled this crap, I'd tell you to get the f#$k out of my face. Shut up and listen.