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Jordanbcool
08-28-2007, 02:38 PM
Anyone see any potential problems to a higher fat diet then typically suggested? I get enough protein and sufficient calories (I'm bulking on 3200). However I'm living on a college campus and its hard for me to get enough calories over a 3 meal span without looking like a total pig. Also its hard to avoid the higher fat content anyways.

For instance. For lunch today I had two slices of meat pizza (high fat content) moderate protein/carbs. This morning I tried to find something better and had to settle for things like bacon egg cheese sandwich etc.

Theres a sub shop with low fat sandwiches but I can only get one "meal" at a time. In the cafeteria I can eat whatever I want (but again don't want to look like a pig and most of the food choices are high in fat anyways).

There is some hope. I found out that they serve skim milk in unlimited quantities and nitrean is keeping me alive for the most part. I can't really see any significant negative impacts this diet will have but I just wanted to run it by everyone. Maybe this might be beneficial since I'll have a slightly better test. production :)

Also. Most of the foods that should be good are very bad. Last night I had pasta thinking it wouldn't be too bad. Then I saw the lunch lady pouring POURING oil into the pan as she was stirring it up. I could taste the oil as I ate it. It was good but probably terribly bad for me. Certain veggies are also prepared with a ton of grease etc. Its like trying to get out of a hole only to realize the more you fight the faster you sink.

RedSpikeyThing
08-28-2007, 03:13 PM
Also. Most of the foods that should be good are very bad. Last night I had pasta thinking it wouldn't be too bad. Then I saw the lunch lady pouring POURING oil into the pan as she was stirring it up. I could taste the oil as I ate it. It was good but probably terribly bad for me. Certain veggies are also prepared with a ton of grease etc. Its like trying to get out of a hole only to realize the more you fight the faster you sink.

You should ask if it is oil. I thought the same thing at my cafeteria, but it turned out to be vegetable broth.

IZich
08-28-2007, 03:44 PM
Anyone see any potential problems to a higher fat diet then typically suggested? I get enough protein and sufficient calories (I'm bulking on 3200). However I'm living on a college campus and its hard for me to get enough calories over a 3 meal span without looking like a total pig. Also its hard to avoid the higher fat content anyways.

For instance. For lunch today I had two slices of meat pizza (high fat content) moderate protein/carbs. This morning I tried to find something better and had to settle for things like bacon egg cheese sandwich etc.

Theres a sub shop with low fat sandwiches but I can only get one "meal" at a time. In the cafeteria I can eat whatever I want (but again don't want to look like a pig and most of the food choices are high in fat anyways).

There is some hope. I found out that they serve skim milk in unlimited quantities and nitrean is keeping me alive for the most part. I can't really see any significant negative impacts this diet will have but I just wanted to run it by everyone. Maybe this might be beneficial since I'll have a slightly better test. production :)

Also. Most of the foods that should be good are very bad. Last night I had pasta thinking it wouldn't be too bad. Then I saw the lunch lady pouring POURING oil into the pan as she was stirring it up. I could taste the oil as I ate it. It was good but probably terribly bad for me. Certain veggies are also prepared with a ton of grease etc. Its like trying to get out of a hole only to realize the more you fight the faster you sink.

Jordan - I assume from reading your past posts over the previous year or so that you have done a lot of research on different diets. If you look at diets such as the Ketogenic (a.k.a. Anabolic) diet, they are predominantly high in fats (>50%).

From my own research on it, the only dangers of high-fat diets would be the risk of increasing your cholesterol levels as well as an increase in blood pressure.

I'm sure more knowledgeable people will add in more comments.

Trevor M.
08-28-2007, 03:53 PM
Your asking for the detrimental affects of a high fat diet(particularly the type you seem to be consuming)? Are you serious?

That's almost like asking someone why water is good for you. There are just to many reasons to list. As with this case, to many negatives to begin listing.

Based on what you described. You're likely eating a huge amount of oxidised unsaturated oils (bad), Trans fats (bad), and huge amounts of saturated fats (bad), An excessive amount of omega-6's(bad) and not keeping a proper balance of 6's to 3's (bad), huge amount of sodium (bad), and the list goes on.

Jordanbcool
08-28-2007, 05:03 PM
Your asking for the detrimental affects of a high fat diet(particularly the type you seem to be consuming)? Are you serious?

That's almost like asking someone why water is good for you. There are just to many reasons to list. As with this case, to many negatives to begin listing.

Based on what you described. You're likely eating a huge amount of oxidised unsaturated oils (bad), Trans fats (bad), and huge amounts of saturated fats (bad), An excessive amount of omega-6's(bad) and not keeping a proper balance of 6's to 3's (bad), huge amount of sodium (bad), and the list goes on.

This is true but I already know all this.

I was asking if there is anything else besides health reasons why this would be bad. I really can't think of anything. I smoke cigarettes. Do I know they are bad? Yea. But I still do them. I know this diet is crap but right now I'm much more concerned with adding muscular tissue then living a healthy lifestyle. If I could I would have all the best foods etc. etc. But right now my choices are limited.

Basically I was wondering if this will impact my goals as of now. Or if anyone in college could give me some advice. I know the health risks.

Jordanbcool
08-28-2007, 05:05 PM
You should ask if it is oil. I thought the same thing at my cafeteria, but it turned out to be vegetable broth.

I'm sure it was 100%. It shined and it came in a class container (one which cooking oils are typically in). I don't think I've ever seen broth in a glass container like that.

Trevor M.
08-28-2007, 05:27 PM
Oh, my bad...

Well, an excesivly low carb intake increases proteins use as an energy substrate. Meaning, more protein used for fuel and less for "building". Of course, that's horribly simplified "description".
Of course, to an affect it would hinder "muscle building"? Likely not...

Obviously, It will hinder performance in most athletic situations(such as track,football,Bball and so on). Thanks in part to lower glycogen stores...

Jordanbcool
08-28-2007, 05:33 PM
I'm also eating a ton of carbs.

Here are my macros (roughly)

124g fat (from mostly bad sources)
250-300g carbs (some good some bad sources)
200-210g protein

Comes out to be 3200-3300 calories.

Trevor M.
08-28-2007, 05:41 PM
Actually comes out at about 3156Kcal if going with the high amounts...
I got the impression you were seriously restricting carb intake from the first post.

smalls
08-28-2007, 05:42 PM
Your asking for the detrimental affects of a high fat diet(particularly the type you seem to be consuming)? Are you serious?

That's almost like asking someone why water is good for you. There are just to many reasons to list. As with this case, to many negatives to begin listing.

Based on what you described. You're likely eating a huge amount of oxidised unsaturated oils (bad), Trans fats (bad), and huge amounts of saturated fats (bad), An excessive amount of omega-6's(bad) and not keeping a proper balance of 6's to 3's (bad), huge amount of sodium (bad), and the list goes on.

Explain to me how a high fat diet, while being under maintenance calories (ie. losing weight) is bad for your health and please cite your statements. (your making blanket statements so i'm applying them to dieting scenarios as well as bulking) Proper ratio's of omega 6's and 3's has to be the most highly overated bull**** spewed by "nutritional experts" out there.
Most other things stated in your post have some merit. Try not to type in such black and white B.S and maybe you would come of better.

Fat is not bad, stating that eating high fat=bad can be related to drinking water=good is retarted, plain and simple. How much fat, whats the overall diet, calories? Quantify your statements, and back them up.

Trevor M.
08-28-2007, 05:46 PM
Explain to me how a high fat diet, while being under maintenance calories (ie. losing weight) is bad for your health and please cite your statements. Proper ratio's of omega 6's and 3's has to me the most highly overated bull**** spewed by "nutritional experts" out there.
Most other things stated in your post have some merit. Try not to type in such black and white B.S and maybe you would come of better.

Fat is not bad, stating that eating high fat=bad can be related to drinking water=good is retarted, plain and simple. How much fat, whats the overall diet, calories? Quantify your statements, and back them up.

Hmm, I think you should pay attention to this part in my post.
(particularly the type you seem to be consuming)

IZich
08-28-2007, 05:48 PM
I'm also eating a ton of carbs.

Here are my macros (roughly)

124g fat (from mostly bad sources)
250-300g carbs (some good some bad sources)
200-210g protein

Comes out to be 3200-3300 calories.

Oh, dude I don't see the problem with those ratios at all. That doesn't even seem that "high-fat". What sort of problems did you have in mind if not health risks? I can't seem to think of any possible problems - unless you mean social, psychological or monetary.

smalls
08-28-2007, 06:04 PM
Hmm, I think you should pay attention to this part in my post.

How do you know what type he is consuming. He stated one example of pizza and his more constant diet of skim milk, and nitrean. Sub shops and egg sandwiches were mentioned. From that you know what types of fats he is consuming. You know the method of preparation, what brands he is eating etc?

Trevor M.
08-28-2007, 06:22 PM
I'm not interested in debating with you on a high fat diet. Nor do I need to explain myself. However, If you take notice. Cafeteria foods seem to be a stable in his diet. At least, that's the impression I got from his post. Now, notice the cafeteria food he listed and how he said he saw them prepare it. Does that indicate to you cold pressed olive oils? No, that indicates a diet high in cheap "poor" oils.
Examples:
slices of meat pizza

There's a sub shop with low fat sandwiches but I can only get one "meal" at a time. In the cafeteria I can eat whatever I want
Most of the foods that should be good are very bad
lunch lady pouring POURING oil into the pan
prepared with a ton of grease etc

Now, if he ate a good deal of his calories from the "cafeteria", knowing how most cafeterias prepare food and what they use, along with the info he provided. I don't expect much "quality" in terms of fats from this. From this I expect, trans fats, oxidised fats, high amounts of sat fats, vastly large amounts of sodium, and I won't even bother going into the likely"ingredients"in most cafeteria foods.

Jordanbcool
08-28-2007, 08:29 PM
Oh, dude I don't see the problem with those ratios at all. That doesn't even seem that "high-fat". What sort of problems did you have in mind if not health risks? I can't seem to think of any possible problems - unless you mean social, psychological or monetary.

I dunno it just seemed a little high for my tastes. At least compared to what I typically eat.

It may be because I just got done dieting for a couple months and am not used to seeing such high fat/carb/calorie numbers.

Jordanbcool
08-28-2007, 08:32 PM
Lets not turn this into a health issue. More of a bodybuilding issue.

Now I don't know 100% how bad the food is. I assume that it is pretty bad but not totally without some healthy fats (eggs would be a good example).

I don't know what I was expecting by making this thread. Maybe just hoping from some advice from currently enrolled college students.

smalls
08-28-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm not interested in debating with you on a high fat diet. Nor do I need to explain myself. However, If you take notice. Cafeteria foods seem to be a stable in his diet. At least, that's the impression I got from his post. Now, notice the cafeteria food he listed and how he said he saw them prepare it. Does that indicate to you cold pressed olive oils? No, that indicates a diet high in cheap "poor" oils.
Examples:


Now, if he ate a good deal of his calories from the "cafeteria", knowing how most cafeterias prepare food and what they use, along with the info he provided. I don't expect much "quality" in terms of fats from this. From this I expect, trans fats, oxidised fats, high amounts of sat fats, vastly large amounts of sodium, and I won't even bother going into the likely"ingredients"in most cafeteria foods.

ooooh not sodium, LOL. I'm sorry you feel there is that big a difference from cold pressed olive oil and the cheap vegatable oil they use in mass cooking at a cafateria on your health and bulking progress.

Jordan, the main problem I see with a diet that consists of ****, other than "possible" negative health risks depending on your total overall diet is that it's extremely hard to track acurately. If bulking with minimal fat gain is your goal then total calories pretty much need to be on track IMO.

Jordanbcool
08-29-2007, 06:22 AM
Ok. Thanks. Thats the answer I was looking for.

Anthony
08-29-2007, 07:02 AM
I'd consider 124g minimum for someone your size.

Jordanbcool
08-29-2007, 07:05 AM
Of fat??

Anthony
08-29-2007, 07:07 AM
Yes sir.

Holto
08-29-2007, 09:02 AM
Hope your having fun Jordan. You might feel like you're really off your diet but I'm sure as long as you get in the gym and hit it hard you will be fine.

Jordanbcool
08-29-2007, 11:04 AM
Well I wanted to take a week off (I take a week off every 2 months) so thats why I'm not lifting right now. Next week I can't wait to start up Bill Starr's 5x5 program. Very simple but seems like it'll be fun (and hard) since I should be pumping out PR's quite often.

One bad thing about this higher calorie/fat/carbs is my bowel movements. I literally crap twice a day. Its uncomfortable.

And I did the refeed and all. Ate at maintainence for 2 weeks. So I dunno why its so frequent.

Holto
08-29-2007, 11:17 AM
Well I wanted to take a week off (I take a week off every 2 months) so thats why I'm not lifting right now. Next week I can't wait to start up Bill Starr's 5x5 program. Very simple but seems like it'll be fun (and hard) since I should be pumping out PR's quite often.

One bad thing about this higher calorie/fat/carbs is my bowel movements. I literally crap twice a day. Its uncomfortable.

And I did the refeed and all. Ate at maintainence for 2 weeks. So I dunno why its so frequent.

In Holistic health 2/day is considered a healthy minnimum. Perhaps you want to add some psyllium.

Jordanbcool
08-29-2007, 11:32 AM
I think its so uncomfortable because the toilet paper at my college is just total crap. Its like using sandpaper. Hurts like hell after the second day (still hurts today too). I'm about to go and get some REAL toilet paper.

dabaugh
08-29-2007, 12:49 PM
I think its so uncomfortable because the toilet paper at my college is just total crap. Its like using sandpaper. Hurts like hell after the second day (still hurts today too). I'm about to go and get some REAL toilet paper.

heh, i just got outta the dorms, i had a callus by the end of the year from that sandpaper crap.

i also am doing bill starr (a little modified) but along with all the fat, is the whole milk a good source to get it?

Jordanbcool
08-29-2007, 12:56 PM
heh, i just got outta the dorms, i had a callus by the end of the year from that sandpaper crap.

i also am doing bill starr (a little modified) but along with all the fat, is the whole milk a good source to get it?

Whole milk is great for bulking. I don't care for it though since I'm clearly getting more then enough fat. So I just drink as much skim milk as possible which usually works out to be 4-6 cups a meal.

At home though when I could eat better quality foods I was all over whole milk.

RedSpikeyThing
08-29-2007, 09:07 PM
IMO you're overthinking it. Eat the healthiest stuff you can find, hit your protein and fat minimums, lift hard and get over it. If you can't track your intake on fitday then track it using the scale.