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View Full Version : did the search...but need a def. answer about bulk



dabaugh
08-29-2007, 12:42 AM
hey guys, been a while but im back for the winter season again. i was lead to beleive (from searchin other bulk threads) that a caloric surplus will indeed lead to more mass....however allocated in the right/wrong places according to what you eat to bulk. :read:

In my case that needs to be addressed, i have been told and have already started pounding some fatty things such as whole milk (and a lot of it) everyday to help supplement my bulk along with healthy items.

By putting on the "winter coat" with some fat derived calories, with that help my muscles build at their top potential? i mean, last year it worked out like my six pack went dormant for 5 months, then once summer hit i dropped the fat no problem and they were back, so what im getting at is.......will getting fatter as im lifting weights help my muscles grow better?

Spartan936
08-29-2007, 03:32 AM
Eating excess calories while you are lifting weights will make your muscles grow. Getting a little fatter is mostly inevitable. I don't believe fat has any effect on muscle growth, though if your bodyfat is too high it can hinder gains.

Outshine
08-29-2007, 09:37 AM
will getting fatter as im lifting weights help my muscles grow better

Uh, all getting fatter will do is screw up your partitioning, which means that this caloric surplus of yours starts to go more towards fat gain than muscle gain, which is the opposite ratio that you want. The less fat you are, the better your partitioning is.

The only other thing getting fatter will do is cause you to cut longer, which will probably lead to more muscle being lost during said cut.

Really, you don't want to get fat while bulking. Fat gain kind of has to happen to a certain extent (without the world's most amazing genetics and/or drug use) but you should do everything you can to keep it to a minimum.

All you really need to do/know is:

- Eat 250-500 calories above maintenance.
- Eat a minimum of 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (chicken, fish, turkey, lean meats, protein supplements if needed, etc).
- Allow 20-30% of your total calorie intake to come from fat (olive oil, nuts, fish, fish oil, etc.).
- Get the rest of your calorie intake from mostly complex carbs (oatmeal, brown rice, whole wheat bread, vegetables, etc.).

Combine the above with a workout that isn't dumb (which is saying a lot, actually) and work your ass off to progress on your lifts as often as possible. Doing so will allow you to gain muscle while keeping fat gain (which will still occur) to a minimum.

dabaugh
08-29-2007, 09:59 AM
thanks Outshine.
The only other thing getting fatter will do is cause you to cut longer, which will probably lead to more muscle being lost during said cut.

so even eating like 600 cals above maintenance wont have more of an effect of gains except for that little "winter coat" i was talking about......correct? so all whole milk is doing is hindering?

Outshine
08-29-2007, 10:10 AM
thanks Outshine.
so even eating like 600 cals above maintenance wont have more of an effect of gains except for that little "winter coat" i was talking about......correct? so all whole milk is doing is hindering?

There's nothing really wrong with whole milk. It's more about total calorie intake. We can only gain so much muscle so fast. From what I've read, 0.25-0.5lbs of muscle per week is like the maximum for a natural guy. A calorie surplus is needed for this muscle to be gained, but additional calories on top of what is needed for this muscle to be built will all go towards fat gain.

For example, if your body requires 300 cals above maintenance to build muscle, going 600 calories above maintenance will do nothing more to help muscle gain than 300 calories would. All it would do is have 300 calories extra towards fat gain.

RhodeHouse
08-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Dude, if you're worried about gaining fat, eat clean. If you're spending time counting your surplus calories, you're probably not getting any bigger. It's not a very difficult concept to understand. If you want to keep fat gain down, jack your protein up. Maybe 100 grams more than your bodyweight. Protein acts like a thermogenic. As long as you stay active - do a little cardio and hit the weights hard, you'll be fine. Don't make this any harder than it has to be.

BFGUITAR
08-29-2007, 01:46 PM
thanks Outshine.
so even eating like 600 cals above maintenance wont have more of an effect of gains except for that little "winter coat" i was talking about......correct? so all whole milk is doing is hindering?

I look at things as optimization... There is an optimum amount of food that we can take to grow as much muscle with as little fat as possible. Around here thats .75-1 lb a week (I personally think thats a bit much but thats just me). If you go past that point you will be packing on more muscle but at the same time, quite a bit more fat for the muscle your getting. People around here think that there is a point where you cant build any more muscle with the food your getting in... thats simply not true, our body doesnt work that way.

Try reading a graph of enzyme substrate vs enzyme activity (the speed at which enzymes work) and you will see, the limit eventually approaches infinity. Its basically an exponential curve. Enzymes control our body and are responsible for breaking down compounds which in turn can lead to building muscle (and other things). So while those extra un-needed calories may lead to more fat, a small amount will still go to muscle.

DoUgL@S
08-29-2007, 02:46 PM
Try reading a graph of enzyme substrate vs enzyme activity (the speed at which enzymes work) and you will see, the limit eventually approaches infinity. Its basically an exponential curve. Enzymes control our body and are responsible for breaking down compounds which in turn can lead to building muscle (and other things). So while those extra un-needed calories may lead to more fat, a small amount will still go to muscle.

Enzyme rate curves plateau. They can be a limiting factor, i.e. if there is too much substrate the enzyme becomes the limiting factor.

Please clarify this statement, I am not sure I am following you.

linnaete
08-29-2007, 03:03 PM
Once you pass a point of excess calories, the benefit of added muscle compared to the amount of added fat ratio decreases rapidly... which leaves you more work during your cut. It's really a moot point unless you like the idea of satanic cutting for way too long.