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KingJustin
09-03-2007, 06:21 PM
I'm just curious, mostly because the GymJones site leaves a ton up to the imagination in order to build hype, but are there any major differences between training philosophies of GymJones and CrossFit?

There was a dude at my gym doing some kind of metabolic conditioning with kettlebells and box jumps, etc. today, and I thought for sure he was following some kind of CrossFit plan (yes, I know there is no routine but just principles!). I asked him if he had a specific training style and he told me he followed GymJones. I was with a client and didn't get a chance to talk much to him, but I was just wondering what other people here thought about that style.

He seemed like he was in real solid shape and he was a pretty big dude. I figured I could get a new partner on cardio days since Chubrock is a fat powerlifter.

clawhammer_33
09-03-2007, 06:28 PM
GymJones stole directly from Crossfit. He used to be affiliated, and now his name is a swear word.

Bikkstah
09-03-2007, 06:35 PM
Most of that stuff is military conditioning too. Drive onto a military base at 4 in the morning and watch 200 people doing box jumps, flutter kicks, pull-ups, push-ups..etc.

Anthony
09-03-2007, 06:40 PM
Mark Twight is the owner of GymJones. He used to be a CrossFit affiliate. He stole material published by CrossFit and sold it to the military. CrossFit does a **** LOAD of work for the military. That stolen material eventually made its way into the hands of Greg Glassman ... Mark Twight is no longer a friend of the community.

For more info, check out: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/CrossFit_Mark-Twight.pdf

Keep in mind no one gives a **** that he uses the same training philosophy as CrossFit - it's a testament to the effectiveness when someone is removed from the community and yet still subscribes to the programming. The issue is with him stealing very specific material PUBLISHED by CrossFit and then RESELLING it to the military.

Oh, and before Mark found CrossFit, he was doing primarily machines for strength and conditioning, had his ass handed to him in a CF session but had a ton of enthusiasm, so Greg took him under his wing and spent A LOT of time coaching him to get him up to speed. Nice way to say thanks. ;)

KingJustin
09-03-2007, 06:58 PM
Well, the guy seems like a pretty big *******.

But anyway, is there really any difference at all between his principles and CrossFit's principles? Is the recommended amount/frequency of work (for the same-ability athlete) higher or anything? Does he have more variation in movements? Less variation? etc...

Also, just out of curiosity, do you guys think it's worth advanced trainees doing a good bit more total work than is recommended by the W.O.D.?

Anthony
09-03-2007, 07:12 PM
The principles are the same. Everything he knows about S&C came from CF. Keep in mind that the WOD posted on the site is designed to be used by thousands of people in a wide range of gyms - so not every movement (tire flipping, sledgehammer work, etc) gets posted - BUT it's very common to see those elements in local affiliate gyms.

The WOD is a GPP program ... if you're an advanced athlete, I certainly hope you're practising your sport on top of general strength and conditioning stuff. ;)

Tofer
09-03-2007, 07:16 PM
With the official Crossfit warmup and the fact that you're going 3 days on 1 day off all the time, I wouldn't think so, but then again I haven't started strictly following the Crossfit WOD yet. If it's not enough for whatever reason, I don't see why you couldn't do a little more (like 21-18-15-12-9 instead of 21-15-9 on something like Elizabeth. I'd be interested to hear what the Crossfit guys on here have to say though.

Bikkstah
09-03-2007, 07:28 PM
Never seen any CrossFit stuff employed in the military, the calisthenics we do we've been doing for hundreds of years...nothing new. I have heard of units doing aerobics and yoga though, maybe some rear in the gear units get to do CrossFit.

Anthony
09-03-2007, 07:30 PM
Never seen any CrossFit stuff employed in the military, the calisthenics we do we've been doing for hundreds of years...nothing new. I have heard of units doing aerobics and yoga though, maybe some rear in the gear units get to do CrossFit.

Really big with the Marines and Navy (SEALS especially). I'm not sure how far it's branched into other units, but I know it's spreading like wild fire.

KingJustin
09-03-2007, 08:31 PM
The WOD is a GPP program ... if you're an advanced athlete, I certainly hope you're practising your sport on top of general strength and conditioning stuff. ;)

What about for people with high GPP that just want to continue to improve strength and metabolic conditioning? Yes, I know the W.O.D. is not CrossFit, but generally, what is the best way to go about this?

More workouts (2-a-days?, 6-on-1-offs?)? Typical metcon workout, rest, another typical metcon workout? Increased reps on metcons? Increased weight?

For strength, more lifts on max effort days? Maybe some dynamic effort work? More sets?

Obviously all of this would still fall as CrossFit, I'm just wondering what variables tend to be the best to scale up for advanced trainees.

Anthony
09-04-2007, 05:48 AM
There are a few crazy folks who hit 2-3 workouts per day. Usually AM/PM type thing. Obviously the intensity/type will vary through each one. Skill practise, metcon, strength, play a game, etc.

There's really no "proper" way ... slowly add more work and pay attention to your recovery.

Bikkstah
09-04-2007, 09:45 PM
Yeah Anthony, Marines do a much better (I think) PT program. They lift weights and stuff that will help them in Iraq better. We just run around and do push-ups until we're tried, which is really good if your goal is to run longer and do more push-ups.

ericg
09-05-2007, 10:33 AM
What about for people with high GPP that just want to continue to improve strength and metabolic conditioning? Yes, I know the W.O.D. is not CrossFit, but generally, what is the best way to go about this?

More workouts (2-a-days?, 6-on-1-offs?)? Typical metcon workout, rest, another typical metcon workout? Increased reps on metcons? Increased weight?

For strength, more lifts on max effort days? Maybe some dynamic effort work? More sets?

Obviously all of this would still fall as CrossFit, I'm just wondering what variables tend to be the best to scale up for advanced trainees.

I find that normally, once you feel that your GPP is at a decent level, you will try to fit in more stuff that you seem to be weaker on (if you suck at HSPUs, or your weighted squat is disproportional to your other lifts), or tweak things so you are focused on certain goals that you have set.

Al3X
09-11-2007, 10:46 AM
Yeah Anthony, Marines do a much better (I think) PT program. They lift weights and stuff that will help them in Iraq better. We just run around and do push-ups until we're tried, which is really good if your goal is to run longer and do more push-ups.

Yup. PT format is old, maybe it's time for an update? Some units are branching out to other formats of fitness. I think it's more of the Infantry, SF, Rangers etc...

jamrock
09-27-2007, 01:46 PM
Man, I've been trying to understand that CF **** for a couple of years now. I don't get it.. The dude from GymJones sounds like a rectum.

Ant, if I make a 50lb and a 75lb sand bag - what can I do? I have a pull up bar, and plenty of places to run, even one of those tracks where you have stops for dips and situps and the like... Ohh and an elliptical..

I am a big person naturally, I think I'll do well if I can get in the rhythm..

Help? Anyone...?

manowar669
09-27-2007, 03:34 PM
Man, I've been trying to understand that CF **** for a couple of years now. I don't get it.. The dude from GymJones sounds like a rectum.

Ant, if I make a 50lb and a 75lb sand bag - what can I do? I have a pull up bar, and plenty of places to run, even one of those tracks where you have stops for dips and situps and the like... Ohh and an elliptical..

I am a big person naturally, I think I'll do well if I can get in the rhythm..

Help? Anyone...?

You don't need much space. Get a barbell and some weight. That's really all you need in addition to what you have. Try and find a squat rack cheap. I got a 300lbs weight set, bar, and a squat rack/bench for $70 on craigslist. I used the lat pull attachment bar that came with the rack for a pullup bar by attaching it to the ceiling joists. I made gymnastic "rings" for $10.43 with stuff from home depot.

For some of the run-then-lift type WODs, I just run up the stairs and out the front door, down to the stop sign 200m away and back (for 400m), then down the stairs, lift, repeat. I'm sure my neighbors think I'm nuts.

Anthony
09-27-2007, 04:34 PM
Man, I've been trying to understand that CF **** for a couple of years now. I don't get it.. The dude from GymJones sounds like a rectum.

Ant, if I make a 50lb and a 75lb sand bag - what can I do? I have a pull up bar, and plenty of places to run, even one of those tracks where you have stops for dips and situps and the like... Ohh and an elliptical..

I am a big person naturally, I think I'll do well if I can get in the rhythm..

Help? Anyone...?

Regarding this issue, you can divide people into two camps:

1) People who do it
2) People who don't do it but analyze it to death and try to predict the benefits (or lack of benefits)

It's basically an internet debate, because once you actually jump in, there's no need to analyze/justify/convince ... it works and that's all that matters.

Now, the fact that you're trying is great, but the bottom line is that you probably WON'T understand it until you actually bite the bullet and DO IT. I lost track of how many times I've heard someone say, "Man, I had NO IDEA!" after they give a workout an honest effort.

With a sandbag and pullup bar you can do every single workout they post - with some minor modifications.

Did you do today? Why not? Stop analyzing and start doing - within a few weeks you'll "get it." Trust me.

manowar669
09-27-2007, 05:29 PM
Amen, Anthony. Next week will be a year I've been Crossfitting. I tell everyone, and they all know I've been lifting for almost 20 years, but didn't talk about it until I began Crossfit. Oh, and doing freestanding handstand pushups at a party usually gets a few "that's impossible!".

jamrock
10-02-2007, 01:22 PM
Regarding this issue, you can divide people into two camps:

1) People who do it
2) People who don't do it but analyze it to death and try to predict the benefits (or lack of benefits)

It's basically an internet debate, because once you actually jump in, there's no need to analyze/justify/convince ... it works and that's all that matters.

Now, the fact that you're trying is great, but the bottom line is that you probably WON'T understand it until you actually bite the bullet and DO IT. I lost track of how many times I've heard someone say, "Man, I had NO IDEA!" after they give a workout an honest effort.

With a sandbag and pullup bar you can do every single workout they post - with some minor modifications.

Did you do today? Why not? Stop analyzing and start doing - within a few weeks you'll "get it." Trust me.

You rock man, that's why I love your responses. We have history, sorta. Heh.. You got me to quit smoking by asking me why the **** I was waiting for the party to quit, what about the parties after that one?

I didn't do the WOD been really hectic at work, in fact ive got about 10 hours of sleep since my last post. I did how ever do 20 minutes on the elipitical, 1 intense 2 moderate pace.. I feel alright, but I don't think it was really to my capacity.

So I'm understanding this right, I just need to STFU and do it? ;)

Anthony
10-02-2007, 02:28 PM
Hahaha, precisely! Happy to hear you quit smoking too!

Maki Riddington
10-02-2007, 11:59 PM
Cross Fit rocks!

Bikkstah
10-03-2007, 05:07 AM
Yup. PT format is old, maybe it's time for an update? Some units are branching out to other formats of fitness. I think it's more of the Infantry, SF, Rangers etc...

Infantry still follows the "run until all your muscle is gone" plan. I wish I could convince someone that CrossFit or even strength training would be a good idea for PT.