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View Full Version : UD 2.0-Use it. It works.



ray34iyf
09-06-2007, 01:22 PM
Hey guys. Just thought I'd give a little update in hopes of talking those of you who are thinking about giving the UD 2.0 diet a try a look. I've been using the diet to get down to 8%BF before bulking for three weeks now, and the results have been nothing short of outstanding.

Beginning stats-161 lbs, 15% BF(calipers), LBM=136.85 lbs.

Now-156, 11.79% BF(calipers), LBM=137.59

That's a loss of approximately 5.75 lbs of fat and a gain of almost a 1lb of muscle. This, IMO, is incredible considering the diet isn't even hard to stick to after the first week. I don't know why everyone doesn't cut with this. Lyle is a genius.

Con
09-06-2007, 01:24 PM
How long did this take?

What did you use to measure bf?

ray34iyf
09-06-2007, 01:27 PM
I'm on my third week. Starting carb load tonight. I measured using calipers. Not the greatest for exact %'s, but it can they track progress very well. I'll get pics up as soon as I get a hold of camera..which may be in 3 or so weeks when I finish up my cycle.

Con
09-06-2007, 01:33 PM
Cool. Congratz on progress. Only reason I asked how you measure, is because a lot of calipers are easy to "cheat yourself" with, and over estimate progress. Pics are definately the way to go, since you are getting quite lean.

ray34iyf
09-06-2007, 01:35 PM
Yeah, I make sure I measure the spot multiple times and in the same fashion to make sure it's accurate. Con man, you're sitting kind of where I was a few weeks back. Give this a try before you bulk. Think of it as kind of a reset button and then go on a long slow bulk until you reach where you want to go.

Con
09-06-2007, 01:43 PM
Im trying to stick to the whole "keep it simple stupid" way of doing things.

I dont see why it wont work seeing as how Im small, weak, and at a decent bf%. Definately not as lean as I want to be, but then again, if I were, id probably me even more scared of getting than I am now.

Its always an option, but I really need to see how much time school is going to take first.

Cirino83
09-06-2007, 02:17 PM
I agree. UD2 is the ****. I dropped to about 10 or 9% from 14 with only losing about 7 lbs overall in a 5 week period.

markdk86
09-06-2007, 09:06 PM
The reason a lot of people don't do it, is because playing with glycogen levels can be a dangerous thing, ie. why Lyle reccomends doing the program no longer then 6-8 weeks.

I had great success doing the diet but by my 8th week I was being affected by my mood, and I was depressed for 2 weeks. Just be careful, I'm not saying others will have the same effects it had on me but it is possible.

ray34iyf
09-07-2007, 11:48 AM
I'll keep you guys updated on how the next few weeks go. If I can keep up the good pace, I should end up around 8% at the end of the 8th week. That'll put me around 150 or so pounds. Think about that for a second. 6% BF loss in 8 weeks with gain in strength and muscle. That's the ideal diet.

Vapour Trails
09-07-2007, 11:56 AM
The reason a lot of people don't do it, is because playing with glycogen levels can be a dangerous thing, ie. why Lyle reccomends doing the program no longer then 6-8 weeks.

I had great success doing the diet but by my 8th week I was being affected by my mood, and I was depressed for 2 weeks. Just be careful, I'm not saying others will have the same effects it had on me but it is possible.

Dangerous?

I agree with mood changes after long term use, but I would estimate that is because of the cumulative affects of training so hard. I don't believe glycogen has anything to do with it. You basically enter overtraining which can happen to anyone on any program and it's nothing a 2 week break can't overcome.

ray34iyf
09-07-2007, 11:58 AM
Vapour, when you did UD before, did you notice that it became silly easy after the first week? I mean, I'm doing everything down to a T, and it the low carb/low cal days aren't hitting me at all, the depletion is hard but very doable, and the carb load days are awesome. Am I missing something here?

Al3X
09-07-2007, 12:01 PM
I'm intrigued with your progress as well as others who have used ud 2.0. I'm going to give it a go, once I reach week 8 of 12. Get pictures when you can Ray.

Slim Schaedle
09-07-2007, 12:02 PM
Vapour, when you did UD before, did you notice that it became silly easy after the first week? I mean, I'm doing everything down to a T, and it the low carb/low cal days aren't hitting me at all, the depletion is hard but very doable, and the carb load days are awesome. Am I missing something here?

I literally became addicted to it.

Stimulants work so well in a carb-free (ok, sorta) and low cal environment.

Even my tension workouts were insane despite near complete glycogen depletion.

Easy and fun. That is until I started getting burned out like 6 or 7 months in.

ray34iyf
09-07-2007, 12:02 PM
Sure thing..I'll only be able to give before and after though, because I've got no damn camera right now.

ray34iyf
09-07-2007, 12:03 PM
6 or 7 months!? Holy **** dude. Like I said, ALL people should be required to cut this way.

Slim Schaedle
09-07-2007, 12:05 PM
I really did get tired of depleting each week and feeling skinny Mon - Thurs though.

Plus I noticed it takes longer for me to replenish, so I wasn't feeling as full as I would have liked come Friday and Saturday night.

ray34iyf
09-07-2007, 12:08 PM
What kind of numerical progress did you end up making during that time? You must have been a porker or something to start out. lol

Slim Schaedle
09-07-2007, 12:44 PM
What kind of numerical progress did you end up making during that time? You must have been a porker or something to start out. lol

Started at 203 down from 220 using conventional cutting.

This was probably 15% or less.

I ended at 190-195 at approx 9%

So that's roughly 173 lbs lean mass both at 203lbs and at my ending weight.

Never been a porker, so to speak.

Cirino83
09-07-2007, 02:22 PM
UD2 definately works well if you follow everything perfectly. By no means was it fun or do I look forward to anything with it besides good cutting results. The training on it sucks balls. You guys can keep your 6 x 15 sets, I'd rather a 5x5 or 3x6 ;)

LouPac
09-07-2007, 07:58 PM
What's the basic outline for the UD 2.0 diet? Total cals, macros, etc.

markdk86
09-07-2007, 09:09 PM
Dangerous?

I agree with mood changes after long term use, but I would estimate that is because of the cumulative affects of training so hard. I don't believe glycogen has anything to do with it. You basically enter overtraining which can happen to anyone on any program and it's nothing a 2 week break can't overcome.


Oh no, I'm not saying its due to the glycogen levels, hell I have no clue what it was. But even Lyle himself has said in the past to be weary of playing with your levels for a long period of time. That is one of the reasons for the 6-8 week tiem constraint.

markdk86
09-07-2007, 09:10 PM
What's the basic outline for the UD 2.0 diet? Total cals, macros, etc.

Buy the book, it isn't expensive and you won't regret it.

monkeyarms
09-07-2007, 09:37 PM
I actually ordered it today -- $26 (includes shipping) from amazon.

Bob_1986
09-09-2007, 01:06 AM
I was able to find this book at a bookstore and I sat down to start to read some of it just to see what it was about before dropping $30. I went looking for it because of Ray's insistance on it. Right in the beginning of the book he says that,

"In general, until males hit 12-15% bodyfat and females 20-22% bodyfat, a more standard approach is probably fine (and desirable). I recommend folks use the simplest approaches they can until those approaches stop working."

I am probably around 22% body fat. I am trying to control what I am eating and I am exercising like crazy. I try and keep the calorie count low but being in my senior year of college I am pretty busy and have not had the time to go the distance and count calories and fat's like I should. But I am seeing some gains. I want to make sure I don't lose a lot of muscle while I do it though. Is there any other book out there that I could read that would be better for a guy like me?

minime_moomey
09-09-2007, 07:55 AM
Run a search on the internet...I honestly dont remember the link, but I was able to download the book for free...I havent tried it yet, but it is on my desktop challenging me to stop being a wuss and do it every day.

Slim Schaedle
09-10-2007, 04:05 PM
I was able to find this book at a bookstore and I sat down to start to read some of it just to see what it was about before dropping $30. I went looking for it because of Ray's insistance on it. Right in the beginning of the book he says that,

"In general, until males hit 12-15% bodyfat and females 20-22% bodyfat, a more standard approach is probably fine (and desirable). I recommend folks use the simplest approaches they can until those approaches stop working."

I am probably around 22% body fat. I am trying to control what I am eating and I am exercising like crazy. I try and keep the calorie count low but being in my senior year of college I am pretty busy and have not had the time to go the distance and count calories and fat's like I should. But I am seeing some gains. I want to make sure I don't lose a lot of muscle while I do it though. Is there any other book out there that I could read that would be better for a guy like me?


How do you not have the time to count calories, etc., but do have the extra time to read an entirely new book in addition to any reading requirements for your studies, etc.?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-10-2007, 04:20 PM
:withstupi

Probably takes 5-10 minutes out of my day to log everything into FitDay. It really isn't time consuming.

ray34iyf
09-10-2007, 06:03 PM
Or just plan out everything before hand and eat the same things for each day of the week. Takes like 2 seconds..

Bob_1986
09-12-2007, 12:21 AM
I did not read the entire book; I read the first 10 pages in it. I read freaking fast, I am a history major and spend bare minimum 2 hours a day reading. I wasn't questioning fitday. I was questioning the book and how it says it is only helpful if you are already at a low body fat percent.

Slim Schaedle
09-12-2007, 07:07 AM
I did not read the entire book; I read the first 10 pages in it. I read freaking fast, I am a history major and spend bare minimum 2 hours a day reading. I wasn't questioning fitday. I was questioning the book and how it says it is only helpful if you are already at a low body fat percent.

No, I was picking on this....


I try and keep the calorie count low but being in my senior year of college I am pretty busy and have not had the time to go the distance and count calories and fat's like I should.

You are requesting reference to another book that may serve you better. My point was that if you have the time to read a new book, or even skim it, you have the time to count calories.

ray34iyf
09-12-2007, 11:48 AM
And the fat keeps melting off. This diet that Lyle came up with is money.

ray34iyf
09-12-2007, 12:01 PM
While we're at it, I may as well just post what I've been doing for the diet.

DIET
Mon-Wed

Breakfast-5 egg whites, 3 whole eggs, 2 cups skim milk
PreWO-1/4 cup oats, 2 scoops nitrean
Dinner-Tuna can, scoop opticen in H20, 12 fish tabs
Bedtime-cup cottage cheese

Cals: 1287
Carbs:~60
Protein:~180
Fat:~35

Supps-ETS, Green Tea extract, multi vit, vit C, LOTS of water

Thursday AM
3/4 Mon-Wed total

Thursday PM
PreW/O-banana, nitrean, H20+creatine

Post Tension W/O
140 dextrose, 2 scoops nitrean, 5 g creatine(yep, creatine loading)

Rest of Carb load(spread throughout rest of night and Friday PM)
-Bagels, milk, Coco Puffs(or any sugar cereal), big ole box of mac and cheese, pretzels, dextrose.....also get in 5g of creatine with each meal and a tbsp of vinegar.....Try to get atleast 1.5 gallon water

Total Carbload(post Tension W/O)
Cals:~4400cals
Carb:~830g
Protein:~140g
Fat:~60g

SATURDAY
Cals:2500
Carbs:325
Protein:200
Fat:45

SUNDAY
Cals:2500
Carbs:175
Protein:250
Fat:80g

...taper off food and carbs towards end of Sunday to go ease back into diet mode...



Training-

Monday-Book Depletion
Tuesday-Book Depletion
Wed-OFF
Thursday-Book Tension
Friday-OFF

Saturday-POWER WORKOUT BABY

Squat 3x4-6
Bench 3x4-6
Weighed Chins 3x4-6
Deads 1x3-5

Ab work


So, there it is. The ultimate diet. Burn fat and gain muscle at the same time is the name of the game.

Vapour Trails
09-12-2007, 03:34 PM
I did a much longer power workout, like the one described in the book.

DL
Calves
Bench
Row
Incline
Pullups
OHP
Hack Squat
Narrow grip bench
Curls

emjlr3
09-14-2007, 07:47 AM
not real sure what other have said, but with my minimal experience with UD, my words of wisdom, taken with a grain of salt

use the UD if you want to feel like ass, and work really hard to do it
use alternative methods otherwise

brihead301
09-14-2007, 08:07 AM
I did a much longer power workout, like the one described in the book.

DL
Calves
Bench
Row
Incline
Pullups
OHP
Hack Squat
Narrow grip bench
Curls

Please tell me not all in one workout.

Lol, and you called my workout 'beyond stupid'

Slim Schaedle
09-14-2007, 09:19 AM
Please tell me not all in one workout.

Lol, and you called my workout 'beyond stupid'

What's wrong with what VT outlined?

brihead301
09-14-2007, 09:38 AM
It seems like way too much for just one workout. He (she? Can't tell by the scarlet avatar) called my strength workout 'beyond stupid' the other day. I'd say that doing that much stuff in one day is even stupider then beyond stupid, but that's just me.

If you really want to do full body workouts, which are perfectly fine, stick to just a few compound lifts per workout. Maybe Squats, pull-ups, and military presses in one workout. Deadlifts and bench press in another, clean-and-press and rows in another.

ray34iyf
09-14-2007, 09:43 AM
Yeah, so a little update. Weighed myself this morning and I'm currently sitting at 153 lbs and right around 10%BF. My waist is about 30 inches(smallest I've ever had it), and I look as lean as ever. I plan on Ultimate Dieting for atleast another 2 weeks, maybe 3 and end up at about 7-8% BF. From there on out I'm going to maintain for atleast 2 weeks and then switch to Ripetoe's routine and bulk slowly(shooting for 2-3 lbs a month). Anywho, I'll get pics up maybe this weekend, but for sure in 2 weeks.

brihead301
09-14-2007, 09:47 AM
Yeah, so a little update. Weighed myself this morning and I'm currently sitting at 153 lbs and right around 10%BF. My waist is about 30 inches(smallest I've ever had it), and I look as lean as ever. I plan on Ultimate Dieting for atleast another 2 weeks, maybe 3 and end up at about 7-8% BF. From there on out I'm going to maintain for atleast 2 weeks and then switch to Ripetoe's routine and bulk slowly(shooting for 2-3 lbs a month). Anywho, I'll get pics up maybe this weekend, but for sure in 2 weeks.

Can you give me an idea of what this ultimate diet looks like. I may go out and buy the book if it sounds good.

Cirino83
09-14-2007, 10:26 AM
Can you give me an idea of what this ultimate diet looks like. I may go out and buy the book if it sounds good.

if followed correctly, you will lose bf while maintaining muscle, or even adding some size. it's the ideal diet.


low cals/carbs + depletion workouts

then carb load

then power workout

ray34iyf
09-14-2007, 10:42 AM
Check out the page before this..I outline my diet and training..but, DO buy the book or you'll be sorry.

brihead301
09-14-2007, 12:01 PM
Sounds interesting, maybe I'll give the book a look. Are all the supplements necessary, or can you do it just with the workouts and the carb cycling?

Slim Schaedle
09-14-2007, 12:11 PM
Sounds interesting, maybe I'll give the book a look. Are all the supplements necessary, or can you do it just with the workouts and the carb cycling?

I couldn't fathom eating half my maintenance without taking caffeine and ephedrine.

brihead301
09-14-2007, 12:16 PM
I can understand the caffine, but I'm talking about the dextrose, nitrean, and creatine.

Cirino83
09-14-2007, 01:26 PM
^^ I used protein, a multi, caffeine and creatine. Protein will be needed because on half maintenance, I doubt' you'll be able to get enough protein you need. The creatine is optional.

ray34iyf
09-15-2007, 08:13 AM
Post carb load status:
152 lbs, 10% BF!

LouPac
09-15-2007, 06:12 PM
Guys, the book is online in PDF format. I found it on the first page of a yahoo search using "Ultimate Diet 2.0"

Con
09-15-2007, 06:22 PM
I wouldnt doubt it. Id rather buy the book and support the author however.

im definately ordering the book this month. If for nothing else, a bit of information never hurt. I could possibly take some of the concepts from the book and apply it to another approach.

Gl ray, and congrats on the progress.

KoolDrew
09-15-2007, 07:13 PM
I'm actually reading it now and am on page 48. Most of the science behind it I don't really understand though.

DaveG
09-16-2007, 09:52 PM
Are the stimulants absolutely necessary? I ask because I cannot have some caffeine even, but I've been planning on trying the UD 2.0 the next time I cut in Feb/Mar timeframe

Slim Schaedle
09-17-2007, 11:45 AM
Are the stimulants absolutely necessary?

No, but you are going to feel like absolute doggy doo doo.

Those of us who do take the stims still feel like that, so I can't imagine it without it.

This is aside from the other benefits of stims outlined in the book.

Vapour Trails
09-18-2007, 12:20 PM
Please tell me not all in one workout.

Lol, and you called my workout 'beyond stupid'

Do you see 20 rep DLs in there?

That's the standard template and yes I did it all, and it's not bad.

Vapour Trails
09-18-2007, 12:22 PM
It seems like way too much for just one workout. He (she? Can't tell by the scarlet avatar) called my strength workout 'beyond stupid' the other day. I'd say that doing that much stuff in one day is even stupider then beyond stupid, but that's just me.

If you really want to do full body workouts, which are perfectly fine, stick to just a few compound lifts per workout. Maybe Squats, pull-ups, and military presses in one workout. Deadlifts and bench press in another, clean-and-press and rows in another.

It's he.

Read the book before commenting.....
You only have one day to hit everything,

theravingphycho
09-20-2007, 01:33 AM
thast because UD 2 is CKD at its finest

Workouts are structured around refeeds so as to avoid going catabolic and to make sure maximal intensity is kept. Most people think they will gain muscle off ot it too when its a illusion caused by supercompensation of glycogen levels.

I personally prefer carb cycling to CKD but to each his/her own, and if it works it works :)

ray34iyf
10-04-2007, 11:43 AM
Alright, update time. I'm sitting at 153 right now and am at 9.7% BF according to calipers. My cycle would be done and over with if not for ****in up my carbload with excess alcohol a few weeks back but hey, what are you going to do. Two Saturdays from now, I should be sitting at right around 8% and 150 lbs. I then plan on posting pics here so that you can all see the wonders of UD 2.0. Seriously, I'm never going back to old school cutting again.

After this, a 2 week maintenance at about 2100 cals and moderate carbs is in order. From there on out, I'll be slow bulk(300 over maintenance) until I reach 13% or so and then cutting again. I hope to reach about 185(2:1 muscle to fat ratio; bulking with IF..hopefully that ratio is possible) and 13%, and then cutting down to 8% and 175 and repeating...

Seriously guys, if you're going to cut and you want to gain strength and muscle while seeing drastic weekly changes, do yourself a favor and buy Lyle's book.

ray34iyf
10-04-2007, 12:01 PM
^^^This also speaks to the fact that if you're going to try and half-ass this diet, don't waste your time. Not counting macros and being precise during your carbload will set you back weeks.

Con
10-04-2007, 02:36 PM
Ray, I swear to god, you better stop posting your results. Im serious here. You are making me want to cut so bad.

I saw my top two abs yesterday, and just reading about how much success you are getting is really making me consider ordering the UD.2 book. Damn this credit card.

ray34iyf
10-04-2007, 03:13 PM
Seriously dude. GET IT. Come on, you know you want to. Contrary to what alot of people said, UD is very easy to adhere to in my opinion, granted you are taking caffeine and getting good sleep. ETS is also a staple too, imo, because it holds overtraining at bay. I actually enjoy this diet, believe it or not. The first 4 days of the diet you just feel fat coming off and then the next three are actually quite enjoyable. My carb load today is going to consist of alot of cereal(in particular SMORZ, which is amazing), boxes of mac and cheese, and pretzels with rice. Good stuff.

Con
10-04-2007, 03:23 PM
Seriously dude. GET IT. Come on, you know you want to. Contrary to what alot of people said, UD is very easy to adhere to in my opinion, granted you are taking caffeine and getting good sleep. ETS is also a staple too, imo, because it holds overtraining at bay. I actually enjoy this diet, believe it or not. The first 4 days of the diet you just feel fat coming off and then the next three are actually quite enjoyable. My carb load today is going to consist of alot of cereal(in particular SMORZ, which is amazing), boxes of mac and cheese, and pretzels with rice. Good stuff.

Just...have....to....find....that....ignore....button......

ray34iyf
10-04-2007, 03:25 PM
Whatever floats your boat...

Darcy Tucker
10-04-2007, 04:44 PM
The only thing I didn't like was how tired I was during the carb up.