PDA

View Full Version : Help me with my form on snatches.



Killa Kurt
09-16-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm going to post videos of my snatches, I need advice from someone who is experienced in them. Here we go, help me out, first time doing them all advice is greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Fc49-gCWAus
http://www.youtube.com/v/rXVL1jZSBto
http://www.youtube.com/v/XFgJfZDfOB8
http://www.youtube.com/v/yD-3drae5UA (This one is reallly bad)
http://www.youtube.com/v/sDHN17mblvc

JHarris
09-16-2007, 07:04 PM
I'm going to post videos of my snatches, I need advice from someone who is experienced in them. Here we go, help me out, first time doing them all advice is greatly appreciated.

At first glance, here's what I see:

1. You are coming onto your toes very early in the lift. Stay back on your heels until you are more upright. A good drill for this is to do snatches with a 2 second pause just below your knees. If you are forward then, you'll know with that pause.

2. You are bending your arms VERY early. Keep them straight until after you shrug. A good drill for this is what is called a shrug snatch: using just the bar or maybe 5kilo's on each side, do two speed shrugs followed by a shrug and fall underneath the bar. Remember that you shouldn't be using your arm flexors in the lift at all; try to just shrug to get it high enough to get underneath it.

3. You are landing with your feet way before you actually lock out. Ideally, your feet set at the same time as you lock your arms out. You are doing a lot of shoulder movement to get the bar in the right spot, which you want to avoid. (The bar is getting in front of you for a few reasons - toes and arms, as I mentioned earlier). If the weight was heavy enough, you wouldn't be able to muscle it back so I'd suggest dropping those instead of pushing them into place, and attacking the rep again. I'd try doing drop snatches for this. (Set the bar on your shoulders like a back squat and then, without pushing up, drop underneath the wait and catch it).

That being said, you have some decent power and speed, and further you stay over the bar fairly well. Try to pick a point straight ahead of you and focus on it the whole lift; throwing your head around will quickly screw up lifts. You also seem to be taking a pretty narrow grip, though its hard to tell from the side angle. It seems pretty obvious that you are having problems getting the bar behind your head in the correct position - I'd try widening your grip out some.

Good luck - let me know if you need any more tips as you progress.

Jay

Jinkies
09-16-2007, 09:28 PM
You need to sit WAYYYY lower on the takeoff

CancerVII
09-17-2007, 04:17 AM
1. Try and minimise the swing.
2. You seem to be swinging it out when it reaches the knees? Try and "pull" it at the thigh.
3. Round your back.

Watch the Tommy Kono video. That sure helped my form a lot.

Oh and is it a light weight? Because you dont look like you even needed to dip under the bar.

JHarris
09-17-2007, 06:56 AM
You need to sit WAYYYY lower on the takeoff

Actually, his bottom position is quite good. If he sat any lower, his shoulders would be behind the bar.

Jinkies
09-17-2007, 07:44 AM
Actually, his bottom position is quite good. If he sat any lower, his shoulders would be behind the bar.


His ass should hit his calves, start off in a full atf squat before shooting up on the snatch. (Reference to the first video)


Also his shoulders and ass are parallel...

Chubrock
09-17-2007, 07:48 AM
You know you're arguing Oly Technique with a guy who actually trains it, right?

Jinkies
09-17-2007, 01:06 PM
You know you're arguing Oly Technique with a guy who actually trains it, right?


I've spent a week with a more then over qualified olympic coach now and thats one of the more key point he has stressed to me so I'm not speaking merely an opinion but a fact that you can develop more power and momentum from a lower starting position.

edit: Granted there are many variations and training techniques that many of todays great olympic lifters incorperate but from what I could see his butt is sticking way out in the side position

JHarris
09-17-2007, 01:13 PM
I've spent a week with a more then over qualified olympic coach now and thats one of the more key point he has stressed to me so I'm not speaking merely an opinion but a fact that you can develop more power and momentum from a lower starting position.

That actually is not fact. I've spent four years training in the sport under two separate coaches, one of which has coached at the international level (including the Olympics) for a number of years. I'm not saying that certain athletes can't make this work for them, but the standard line of thinking is not to start -that- low.

The issue here is that you aren't trying to develop a lot of speed and power in the first pull.. you are just trying to get the bar in the proper position when the second pull begins. If you start too low, you will either bang the bar against your knees or you will have to raise your hips up faster than your shoulders. Either is undesirable.

Further, starting lower lets you start a bit more upright, but we don't necessarily want this! If you start a bit more bent over and maintain that angle, you will end up getting a better knee rebend (read: better stretch reflex out of your quads) when you transition in the second pull.

Sometimes athletes start lower or higher due to limb length/flexibility/stance, but in general, I have never heard a coach say to start in an ATG position, nor have I seen an athlete use it. Some do rest there before the lift, but if you look closely, the bar doesn't start moving until their hips are above their knees once again.

Jinkies
09-17-2007, 01:16 PM
That actually is not fact. I've spent four years training in the sport under two separate coaches, one of which has coached at the international level (including the Olympics) for a number of years. I'm not saying that certain athletes can't make this work for them, but the standard line of thinking is not to start -that- low.

The issue here is that you aren't trying to develop a lot of speed and power in the first pull.. you are just trying to get the bar in the proper position when the second pull begins. If you start too low, you will either bang the bar against your knees or you will have to raise your hips up faster than your shoulders. Either is undesirable.

Further, starting lower lets you start a bit more upright, but we don't necessarily want this! If you start a bit more bent over and maintain that angle, you will end up getting a better knee rebend (read: better stretch reflex out of your quads) when you transition in the second pull.


Sometimes athletes start lower or higher due to limb length/flexibility/stance, but in general, I have never heard a coach say to start in an ATG position, nor have I seen an athlete use it. Some do rest there before the lift, but if you look closely, the bar doesn't start moving until their hips are above their knees once again.


Yeah that does make a great deal of sense but I always had thought the lower you were the more room you have to explode standing up

tomv
09-17-2007, 02:51 PM
Yeah that does make a great deal of sense but I always had thought the lower you were the more room you have to explode standing up

The actual really "explosive" part as mentioned by Jharris occurs after the bar gets to about the knee. The first pull off the floor whilst it looks quite explosive, especially watching professional lifters do it is not nearly as powerful as the second pull (that huge shrug and hip extension).

This is why the conventional deadlift isn't necessarily the best training exercise for OLY lifters as you are prone to sitting back in the deadlift whereas, as discussed in OLY lifting you are much more forward, usually with shoulders over the bar.

Though I can't comment on KK body composition it should also be noted that usually someones Leg/Torso length ratio will affect the angle at which their back sits when they start off the lift. Longer legs, shorter torso = a more "upright" starting position as opposed to the other end of the spectrum where the back is often a lot closer to parallel to the ground.

I'm no expert and I definitely respect JHarris' greater experience and what both coaches think, that is however what i've been taught (or come to my own conclusions through simply thinking about it).

http://www.mikesgym.org/gallery/galleryDisplay.php?show=image&imageID=165
Here, the athlete starts with quite an upright back however, she is still in a fairly high squat as she needs to keep her shoulders forward. In the 4th pic you see the end result of a huge 2nd pull! Her whole body is opened up and her shoulders are tickling her earlobes haha.

ernburn
09-17-2007, 05:22 PM
HERE ARE SOME VERY USEFULL LINKS THAT WILL END THIS DISPUTE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wt423i1w6vs

sorry about caps

Killa Kurt
09-17-2007, 05:32 PM
Just got on here going to view all the posts on here after I eat, I really appreciate all of the input and advice.

ericg
09-18-2007, 10:43 AM
check out this thread - has a good link to some coaching cues to the barbell snatch (after you chose the exercise you want, by clicking on the whistle).

Fuzzy
09-19-2007, 06:26 AM
Cant say more than has already been said.

Widen the grip up, alot.

Guido
09-19-2007, 09:02 AM
JHarris seems to really know what he's talking about. Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions, though. I'm going to be incorporating a lot of what was said on here.

Sleepy Guy
09-20-2007, 06:28 PM
At first glance, here's what I see:

1. You are coming onto your toes very early in the lift. Stay back on your heels until you are more upright. A good drill for this is to do snatches with a 2 second pause just below your knees. If you are forward then, you'll know with that pause.

2. You are bending your arms VERY early. Keep them straight until after you shrug. A good drill for this is what is called a shrug snatch: using just the bar or maybe 5kilo's on each side, do two speed shrugs followed by a shrug and fall underneath the bar. Remember that you shouldn't be using your arm flexors in the lift at all; try to just shrug to get it high enough to get underneath it.

3. You are landing with your feet way before you actually lock out. Ideally, your feet set at the same time as you lock your arms out. You are doing a lot of shoulder movement to get the bar in the right spot, which you want to avoid. (The bar is getting in front of you for a few reasons - toes and arms, as I mentioned earlier). If the weight was heavy enough, you wouldn't be able to muscle it back so I'd suggest dropping those instead of pushing them into place, and attacking the rep again. I'd try doing drop snatches for this. (Set the bar on your shoulders like a back squat and then, without pushing up, drop underneath the wait and catch it).

That being said, you have some decent power and speed, and further you stay over the bar fairly well. Try to pick a point straight ahead of you and focus on it the whole lift; throwing your head around will quickly screw up lifts. You also seem to be taking a pretty narrow grip, though its hard to tell from the side angle. It seems pretty obvious that you are having problems getting the bar behind your head in the correct position - I'd try widening your grip out some.

Good luck - let me know if you need any more tips as you progress.

Jay

Agreed but I also think he could stand to lower that ass a bit. The bar comes out too far as it crosses the knees.

Fuzzy
09-20-2007, 06:38 PM
Its not a case of lowering the ass, but keeping the ass from rising too early.

tomv
09-20-2007, 07:13 PM
I agree with fuzz.

vdizenzo
09-21-2007, 05:23 AM
The biggest problem I have with snatches is that I only get to have one--I'm married.

Chubrock
09-21-2007, 04:43 PM
The biggest problem I have with snatches is that I only get to have one--I'm married.

Looks like you've got some convincing to do.

Sleepy Guy
09-21-2007, 09:27 PM
Looks like you've got some convincing to do.

I have found it best to talk about it. Often you can expand on your snatch just by reasoning. After all how are you going to grow?