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Celestial
03-08-2002, 12:35 AM
Just curious cause tonight I got back into the grove and man for some reason at 1 am i got mad hungry!!!!!!!! SO of course I ate, I get crazy hungry when I train hard. How long before i go to bed should i stop eating?

Qea
03-08-2002, 09:45 AM
You'd want to take in protein sources right up to bedtime, imho

You'd also want to take in nutrients after your workout, regardless of how late it is. Macronutrient ratios would be dependant on what kind of diet you're on, or what goals you're after

hope this helps

Par Deus
03-08-2002, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Celestial
How long before i go to bed should i stop eating?

5-10 minutes.

millertime
03-08-2002, 09:57 AM
You can eat all night long, as long as you don't eat that many carbs. I would stay away from high carb foods at least 2 hours before bed. You can eat protein and some fat before bed. If you eat pasta before bed your inactivity all night long will cause your body to store the extra carbs as fat.

Celestial
03-08-2002, 10:17 AM
Thanx guys!!! Cause I get mad hungry! I will just eat egg whites or some turkey before I got to sleep! Thanx!!!

Cackerot69
03-08-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Par Deus


5-10 minutes.

Yeah.

the doc
03-08-2002, 11:11 AM
eat a small meal of slow digesting protein (like cottage cheese) and some fat (like peanut butter)

Celestial
03-08-2002, 11:54 AM
Yummm those two things i eat every day! RAD!

Par Deus
03-10-2002, 08:00 PM
Carbsare not evil, even at night, even when dieting.

syntekz
03-10-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Par Deus
5-10 minutes.

I hear ya. Just had some peanut butter on whole grain/wheat and a protein shake.

Severed Ties
03-10-2002, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Par Deus
Carbs are not evil, even at night, even when dieting.

Thank you, Par I can see you and me are gonna get along just fine....I've been saying the same thing for months...I don't get to post in this forum much but its nice to see someone else who understands that carbs have their place in dieting.

To much carb-o-phobia

ST

Sebi
03-10-2002, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Par Deus
5-10 minutes. :thumbup:

Originally posted by Par Deus
Carbs are not evil, even at night, even when dieting. :thumbup:

gary
03-11-2002, 01:31 AM
I have noticed that broccoli, cottage cheese and turkey are very filling if taken few minutes before bed. These do not add that many calories either.

For females (and males?), spicy roasted soy nuts are worth a try.

Tryska
03-11-2002, 04:27 AM
for me they are evil, especially at night.

actually fibrous carbs aren't.

Sebi
03-11-2002, 04:59 AM
Tryska-
I think it really depends on what kind of carbs you eat.

Anthony
03-11-2002, 06:28 AM
Calories in VS Calories out. I don't think the time matters much. Well, maybe it would make 0.0000000001% of a difference.

Tryska
03-11-2002, 06:44 AM
sebi. agreed.

anthony it's not that simple for some people...particularly myself. I mean yeah a deficit is always good, but i also have to be particularly careful of what foods i eat within that deficit.

syntekz
03-11-2002, 07:47 AM
diabetes in your blood/

Tryska
03-11-2002, 07:53 AM
no...thyroid. prolly causing a little insulin resistance. all i know is, i couldn't really start losing weight at a steady clip until i cut the insulin-inducing carbs out. and i've been cutitng one way or another for a year and a half.

syntekz
03-11-2002, 08:12 AM
I think I might be the same way. My mom's side of the family are all extremely overweight. My mom has been battling it all her life since she had me.

Tryska
03-11-2002, 08:16 AM
really? do they have any diagnosed metabolic disorders? ie diabetes, thyroid, high cholesterol, etc, etc? the Syndrome X stuff?

Maki Riddington
03-11-2002, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Par Deus
Carbsare not evil, even at night, even when dieting.

*** I believe our community pipsqueak ( Cakerot) mentioned this awhile back. I fully agree.
Carbs do a body good!!!!!!

syntekz
03-11-2002, 09:19 AM
well. i know my grandfather had diabetes; he died because he was so overweight. (caused all sorts of health problems). my uncle is bed wridden for the most part and i think he has diabetes as well... not sue about my grandmother; she died before i was born.

Tryska
03-11-2002, 09:36 AM
do you find it difficult to cut?

syntekz
03-11-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Tryska
do you find it difficult to cut?

Yes, but for reasons other than any metabolic problem that I might have. ;)

I can gain weight REALLY easily though. I was REALLY overweight most of my life until about 4 or 5 years ago when I basically stopped eating.

It's kind of odd though how I eat so healthy now and have for the past year yet I still have quite a bit of fat hanging around. Ya know?

Tryska
03-11-2002, 09:50 AM
yeah...i understand...i wonder if you switched up your diet for a bit, if it would help?

kinda like more of a paleolithic diet? (ie, minuse the sugars, flours and grains).

I'm telling you...that was really the only way i could lose weight....on higher cals as well, then when i was doing a traditional FDA diet heavy on grains. It's kinda strange, but i wouldn't be so adamant if i hadn't experienced it firsthand.

Anthony
03-11-2002, 05:51 PM
"anthony it's not that simple for some people...particularly myself. I mean yeah a deficit is always good, but i also have to be particularly careful of what foods i eat within that deficit."

Fair enough. Macronutrient balance is important, but for health, not for actual weight loss/gain. I'm still not sure what your statement has to do with my comment about timing, though.

Tryska
03-11-2002, 05:55 PM
well...if she has an insulin inducing carb meal prior to bed, combined with metabolic slow-down of sleeping, she will lose out on some good fat-burning time.

Budiak
03-11-2002, 06:08 PM
Never stop eating!

Also I think your body does not discriminate between bodily fuel sources like amino acids and fats during sleep. Eating before bed keeps the body from using muscle as fuel as you sleep, at the expense of this 'fat burning time'.

If your diet and exercise is in proper order there shouldnt be any problems with a small meal before bed.

Anthony
03-11-2002, 06:16 PM
You burn less calories when sleeping, but it doesn't mean your metabolism decreases.

There are 3 things involved in losing or gaining weight, and timing isn't one of them.

1. Balanced diet. If you want to lose weight, eat less than you need (or burn more than you eat, however you want to look at it). If you want to gain weight, eat more than you need.
2. Regular exercise. Progress is key. If you are trying to lose weight, but continue to get stronger or faster, it's probably safe to say most of your weight loss is fat (this is a good thing, right?).
3. Good night's rest.

It is that simple. But if it makes you feel better to complicate it, have fun. :)

Cackerot69
03-11-2002, 06:28 PM
Hannibal:

You're ignoring the fact that weight = all kinds of ****.

There's more to improving body composition then cals in/cals out. With weight that's all there is to it....but not body comp.

Anthony
03-11-2002, 06:32 PM
Hmm, maybe you didn't read my post, cockrot? I think I managed to pinpoint all the areas that need attention:

BALANCED Diet.
Exercise.
Sleep.

Maybe something has happened in the past 10 months that I'm unaware of? That drastically changed how we get/stay in shape? Please let me know!

Anthony
03-11-2002, 06:33 PM
Oh wait!

Everything is still the same! Imagine that!

Cackerot69
03-11-2002, 08:05 PM
"and timing isn't one of them."

It is one of them. So is nutrient combination, and other sh*t.

What I was saying is that it is that simple, but not only that simple...there's more you can take into account. Nutrient combination (or not combination, rather) and timing are two that I think you should take into account. Maybe you put that into "balanced diet" category, but not all of us are hannibal lechtor.

Tryska
03-12-2002, 03:55 AM
you know what anthony...you can act all holier than thou...or you can try listening when i say timing is one of them. trust me....i have been cutting for a year and a half.....only the last 6 months being remotely successful. you know what i was doing for that first year? cutting your way, using your logic.

for some people, it takes a little more than a "balanced diet (whatever the fook that maeans)", exercise, and sleep. For others, it takes a little more "complication", as you put it.

don't ever think what's right you for you will work for me.

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-12-2002, 06:00 AM
I found better fat loss when i ate all my carbs for the day within the first few meals and for the remaining meals only ate pro + fat + green veg.

I plan to do it in the future too.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 06:38 AM
Cackerot: explain why eating 10 minutes before bed and 10 hours before bed makes any difference. Assume the nutrient combination is the same in both cases.

Tryska: I'm holier than thou? Maybe. At least I can admit when I **** up. Maybe the last 6 months have been remotely successful because you didn't know what the **** you were doing the first 12? Too many people think their calories are correct when actually they are way off. Oh wait, I know - it's not your fault. You have an undiagnosed disease. The doctors are too ******* stupid to diagnose it, but you were able to search the internet and do it yourself! Congrats! I don't know how you found the time between your average of 10 posts per day for the past year, though!

And what is a balanced diet? Quite simple. It's a diet that doesn't emphasis one macronutrient over another. It's a diet that takes into account vitamin and mineral requirements. It's a diet that will be around when all the fad diets are gone.

the doc
03-12-2002, 06:53 AM
will everyone please remain courteous?
if you wanna yell crap at each other take it to general chat or pm

Tryska
03-12-2002, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Anthony

Tryska: I'm holier than thou? Maybe. At least I can admit when I **** up. Maybe the last 6 months have been remotely successful because you didn't know what the **** you were doing the first 12? Too many people think their calories are correct when actually they are way off. Oh wait, I know - it's not your fault. You have an undiagnosed disease. The doctors are too ******* stupid to diagnose it, but you were able to search the internet and do it yourself! Congrats! I don't know how you found the time between your average of 10 posts per day for the past year, though!

And what is a balanced diet? Quite simple. It's a diet that doesn't emphasis one macronutrient over another. It's a diet that takes into account vitamin and mineral requirements. It's a diet that will be around when all the fad diets are gone.

you know...the problem with going away fro long periods of time, and then coming back and assuming nothing has changed is that you asssumptions tend to be worng.

yes....the first 12 months did include a little ******* up. i went along with the standards high carb mod protein low fat dieting method, my cals were way too low at first..so i raised them to 1500 from 1200. did that for 6 weeks no change, raised them from 1500 to 1800, did that for 12 weeks no change....raised them from 1800 to 2000. still no change. raised them again to about 2200. gained weights. finally i did some reading, educated myself, and chose to do an isocaloric diet, that emphasized fresh and organic foods, and dairy, and de-emphasized grains, sugars and starches. I set it up for around 2000 cals a day. guess what? i started losing weight. you know what else? 3 weeks later, my doctor sent me to an endocrinologist who diagnosed and has started treating me for my "imaginar" thyroid condition. I've been on thyroid meds for about 4 months now....those 2 months while i was wiating for my appt and test results yadda yadda while i was unmedicated, i still lost weight, eating in a way that goes against the traditional idea of well-balanced diets.

so nix the attitude, anthony. you don't know everything, all the time. especially where i am concerned.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 07:10 AM
I don't have an attitude, I just think you're full of ****. But if you say science changed, then it must have! Is the Earth still round? Or did they change it back to being flat?

Physics doesn't lie. You were either calculating your calories incorrectly or calculating your AMR/BMR incorrectly.

And you are right, I don't know everything. Never claimed to, either. I made one comment before you jumped down my throat: timing of meals will not make much difference at the end of the day. I NEVER said what you eat isn't important. So get off your horse. Thanks. :)

Anthony
03-12-2002, 07:13 AM
PS - Earlier you said you used my logic to lose fat, but I would never recommend high carbs, low fat, or 1200 calories (without knowing your AMR). Just to clarify.

Tryska
03-12-2002, 07:13 AM
you can think i'm full of **** if you want to anthony. that's your choice.

my point was never about timing of meals, my point was about what you eat. aside from the carbs just before you sleep thing. but that has more to do witht he carbs, then the sleeping part.

by your logic, i meant calories in v calories out, and it's jsut that simple.

it's really not, as i think my life story for the past year and a half illustrated. 2000 cals one way didn't yeild success, while 2000 cals another way did.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 07:25 AM
Well, I'm happy to have your permission to think you are full of ****. I'll sleep better tonight!

My point (or the point of this ENTIRE THREAD) was never about the balance of macronutrients. It was about timing of meals. So, I'm not sure why you decided to challenge me on something that was never intended to be part of this thread. Just to keep you occupied?

I do have a difficult time believing that you didn't lose weight on 1200 calories but you did on 2000. That's why I think you must have been calculating your calories incorrectly. Now, if you told me you lost more FAT on 2000 calories than you did on 1200, it would be a simple matter of your macronutrient balance. Perhaps this is what you meant and our argument has been pointless?

Tryska
03-12-2002, 07:34 AM
fat/weight/whatever you wanna call it.

all of the above were lost. as to why i ddin't lose anything (fat/weight/whatever you wanna call it) on 1200. I have no clue. perhaps my metabolism was all the way f*cked, and finally eating again helped.

my point in "starting with you" is that people always say all that matter is "calories in v calories out" and if that's not working then you are doing something wrong.

it's not always that cut and dry. and when you say something like that, basically all those people who aren't getting results by just using that formula should consider themselves failures, according to that logic. not necessarily true. whether bulking or cutting, sometimes you need to adjust the macros within your caloric guideline in order to see results.

i'm also getting the feeling you think i was over or underestimating my cals through the day. Months of seeing no results can make you a tad bit anal retentive. I've got online and paper journals marking exactly what i ate and when going back to November 2000, so no, i'm not just pulling these numbers out of thin air. they are quantified.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 07:43 AM
I have a clue: maybe you weren't eating 1200 calories. I bet if you ate 100 calories a day, even if it was PURE maltodextrin, you'd lose weight. Of course, I don't think that's healthy and would never recommend it as a VALID way to lose FAT, but it emphasizes calories in VS calories out. That's why I asked if you were not losing fat or not losing ANY weight.

Quantified in what manner? Maybe your scale is broken. Maybe the food you were eating was lying on the label. Who knows? What I do know is, if you burn more than you eat, it will create a deficit which will result in weight loss over time. Of course, if your diet is fucked, that weight loss could result in a higher body fat percentage due to losing more muscle than fat, but that's beside the point of timing. Remember, the whole point of this thread? Timing?

Tryska
03-12-2002, 07:47 AM
okay anthony. i don't even know how to respond to whatever that argument is, because it looks like your just arguing at this point to be right. or prove me wrong about my experience or something, i dunno. (lying on the label?)

anyways. you are entitled to believe what you want, and i am entitiled to contest that belief. it seems we can't come to a consensus, so i'm through going back and forth with ya.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 07:55 AM
I noticed you were running out of steam/mouth when you refused to argue anything with substance.

Tryska
03-12-2002, 07:57 AM
okay, one last thing. you can address me with a little common courtesy, or not address me at all. the little jabs aren't necessary. :rolleyes:

the reason i didn't comment was because the jab to valid point ratio was getting smaller and smaller.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 08:03 AM
Really. I just scrolled up and made notice of who made the first jab. Three guesses to who that was, Tryska.

And valid point ratio? You haven't once commented on anything I've said that had substance, you prefer to deal with purely subjective matter. "I have charts, I know my body, what works for you will not work for me!" But where's the substance? Where's the science?

Tryska
03-12-2002, 08:06 AM
as i said. this is over.


mods - if y'all feel this needs ot be cleaned up have at it. i'm through.

Cackerot69
03-12-2002, 08:29 AM
LOL, Anthony is great.

Two geniuses argueing = ace :)

Anthony, for example, separating carbs and fat can make a significant difference. Or eating more cals when your muscles need them more (i.e. post workout and breakfast). Macronutrient ratio's also have a large effect, as does what type of those macro's you're eating. Like if you got all your carbs from fructose sources, rather than glucose....you would get fatter. And so on.

BTW, here's an example: "I found better fat loss when i ate all my carbs for the day within the first few meals and for the remaining meals only ate pro + fat + green veg."

Now, IMO it wouldn't matter if he ate the carb meals at night and the fat meals in the morning. I gaurantee it wouldn't matter. I don't think carbs before bed has anything to do with anything, I agree there. I'm just saying that calories in/calories out is not always the bottom line in body composition.

Anthony
03-12-2002, 08:55 AM
Cack, I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't think a healthy body composition can be achieved by a simple Cals in VS Cals out formula. Obviously, you need to pay attention to macronutrients, sleep, and proper training. See above, I've stressed that over and over.

My point wasn't about macronutrients, it was about timing of meals. Other than eating every 2-4 hours, timing isn't that important. Ie, carbs at night aren't bad. That's what this thread was about, right?

Tryska, run away when you can't offer a valid rebuttal? Call me out for taking a jab, but are quickly reminded who took the first one? Hehehe, that cracks me up. Playground stuff, "he started it!" but still funny as hell. Ironic, even. I'm not perfect, but at least I'm big enough to roll with the punches and not be offended. :)

Tryska
03-12-2002, 09:00 AM
anthony.....your applying your own filters to what you may think i'm doing. I got tired of arguing a pointless argument that was degenerating. I don't feel the need to rpove myself to you...i don't feel the need to have ot prove myself right, i could care less one way or the other who wins. I stated my points, i don't feel the need ot re-iterate them. don't pull me into some kiddie sh*t. i'm not interested. and again. i'm stepping out of this conversation.

Cackerot69
03-12-2002, 09:02 AM
Aw Tina chill out. No reason to be pissy about anything.

And yes Anthony, I agree. I decided to go off of the exact topic a bit cuz I had some other stuff to say, so pfft.

YatesNightBlade
03-12-2002, 09:03 AM
Nuff Said on this one.

the doc
03-12-2002, 11:34 AM
yates i will try to prune it later today.

the doc
03-12-2002, 11:35 AM
oh yea will someone report this post to a moderator?