South Park Mormon episode

[method115]

I recently started watching south park ( saw it on the WB realized it actually was a funny show ) and I saw the mormon episode a couple weeks ago. I need to know is this what mormons really believe? I mean I've meet 3-4 mormons in my school had classes with them,they were all completely normal really nice people. I just don't understand how people can believe this, I understand why back then but now and days, come on. Again I don't even know if its true several people have told me it is. I want to hear from people who really know.

here is a link to the episode:

http://toonrip.com/index.php?watch=1&show=South_Park&season=7&episode=712&showname=South%20Park&epbase=11

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Why do you want to start a thread like this? This should be closed.

[method115]

huh? it should be closed why I just want to know if its true, I never watched this episode when i was in HS or I would have just asked the kids in my class who were mormon. It's very simple scar if you don't like the thread you don't read it, you don't participate.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

You gotta be kidding me, dude. Honestly.

Yes...some of that stuff is indeed true. I just don't want this to blow up into another religious bash-fest.

[Organichu]

Discrepancies between the episode and actual Mormonism:

(note: all from a Mormon PoV)

Joseph Smith Jr. received his first vision from God at 14- he wasn't yet a man.

In addition to the 'golden leaf tablets', he found a sword, breastplate, etc.- remnants of the ancient Israelite battle.

Smith actually permitted the partial translation to be shown to Harris' wife. After the resulting period of inactivity on the translation, Smith met up with a schoolteacher (Oliver Cowdery) and greatly accelerated the pace of translation.

Now some education... 'Mormonism' is a tricky word. Most people consider Mormonism to be synonymous with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS). However, there is some confusion in that LDS are only the most primary progeny of Joseph Smith Jr. There are many other offshoots that are technically part of the 'Latter-Day Movement'. Granted, the largest by far are LDS, but there is also the Community of Christ (over 250,000 members) and multiple others, some no longer extant.

A LDS is what we today call a 'Mormon'. They are adherents of Mormonism, a religion that has something like 13.1 million followers. It states that:

-Independence (in Jackson County), Missouri was the Garden of Eden and will one day be Zion, the battlefield for the End of Days.

-The President of the Church of LDS is a prophet (the incumbent is, I think, the 15th to serve) and is prone to theophany.

-When Jesus told the Jews in Jerusalem that he would speak to 'other sheep', he was referring to his other chosen tribes throughout the world- offshoots of Yisra'el.

-A Mormon Prophet (Nephi) left Jerusalem in 600 B.C. to come to the Americas. He was urged to do this by God. His offspring are the Nephites. He and others (Lehi, Jared, etc.) were the ancestors of these lost tribes of Israel. Specifically, the Lamanites became the 'Native Americans' and other residents of the Americas. They are the true progeny of the Lost Tribes of Yisra'el.

-Jesus (after his Resurrection) came to the Americas and spread his Gospel much like he did in Judea. This led to generations of peace.





Note: I'm not Mormon. All of that knowledge is tenuous because I gathered it all third hand; my ex girlfriend had a Mormon family.

[method115]

Discrepancies between the episode and actual Mormonism:

(note: all from a Mormon PoV)

Joseph Smith Jr. received his first vision from God at 14- he wasn't yet a man.

In addition to the 'golden leaf tablets', he found a sword, breastplate, etc.- remnants of the ancient Israelite battle.

Smith actually permitted the partial translation to be shown to Harris' wife. After the resulting period of inactivity on the translation, Smith met up with a schoolteacher (Oliver Cowdery) and greatly accelerated the pace of translation.

Now some education... 'Mormonism' is a tricky word. Most people consider Mormonism to be synonymous with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS). However, there is some confusion in that LDS are only the most primary progeny of Joseph Smith Jr. There are many other offshoots that are technically part of the 'Latter-Day Movement'. Granted, the largest by far are LDS, but there is also the Community of Christ (over 250,000 members) and multiple others, some no longer extant.

A LDS is what we today call a 'Mormon'. They are adherents of Mormonism, a religion that has something like 13.1 million followers. It states that:

-Independence (in Jackson County), Missouri was the Garden of Eden and will one day be Zion, the battlefield for the End of Days.

-The President of the Church of LDS is a prophet (the incumbent is, I think, the 15th to serve) and is prone to theophany.

-When Jesus told the Jews in Jerusalem that he would speak to 'other sheep', he was referring to his other chosen tribes throughout the world- offshoots of Yisra'el.

-A Mormon Prophet (Nephi) left Jerusalem in 600 B.C. to come to the Americas. He was urged to do this by God. His offspring are the Nephites. He and others (Lehi, Jared, etc.) were the ancestors of these lost tribes of Israel. Specifically, the Lamanites became the 'Native Americans' and other residents of the Americas. They are the true progeny of the Lost Tribes of Yisra'el.

-Jesus (after his Resurrection) came to the Americas and spread his Gospel much like he did in Judea. This led to generations of peace.





Note: I'm not Mormon. All of that knowledge is tenuous because I gathered it all third hand; my ex girlfriend had a Mormon family.

You ex-gf having a mormon family qualifies. This is exactly what I was looking for is some simple answers. Thank you.

Scar I understand you don't want it to turn into a religion bashing thread. Especially with the threads that have been starting up. At the same time I can't be afraid to ask questions simply because of what people might turn my thread into. If you felt I opened this thread in order to start the bashing I'm sorry, I didn't intend for my original post to come out that way.

[jdeity]

their stuff is usually *pretty* on point. Their episode on scientology was extremely accurate imo, but I dunno about scientology first hand, just a lot of reading on them and visiting one of their centers (oh and the free DVD they gave us to, well, I think it was to leave lol! One of their major centers is 20 minutes from me).

Anyone see the tourette's episode on wednesday? HILARIOUS!!

[method115]

their stuff is usually *pretty* on point. Their episode on scientology was extremely accurate imo, but I dunno about scientology first hand, just a lot of reading on them and visiting one of their centers (oh and the free DVD they gave us to, well, I think it was to leave lol! One of their major centers is 20 minutes from me).

Anyone see the tourette's episode on wednesday? HILARIOUS!!

omg the touretes episode was genius. When the guy kept saying sit down over here that was classic.

[Rock]

Scarz of pain, religion is usually about bashing people who dont believe what they do...so we should at least be able to dispute their silly claimes with hard evidence as we do have?

Religion is a tool to dominate other peoples, especially young peoples sexuality...hence often an eldery male leader who makes sure nobody is having sex so it will be easier for him to eventually get sex. And then there is the threaths about damnation and all that stuff to keep everybody in place.

And for the record, the light that we see at night called stars, that light is millions of years old by the time we can see it. That pretty much destroys any religion and claims religion has about time.

[McIrish]

And for the record, the light that we see at night called stars, that light is millions of years old by the time we can see it. That pretty much destroys any religion and claims religion has about time.

Just as an aside (and this is a philosophical question more than it is a religious question), but isn't "time" purely a human construct? I mean think about it - if you do believe in God, does God believe in time? Does time even apply to God? How would God measure time, or would he even need to? Heck, I would like to see anyone define the word time without making a self-referential statement to 'time' or 'period' or something.

Ergo, what's a bazillion years if you exist outside of time?

Just saying... it should get you thinking :)

[Rock]

No time is all.

Example, it affects both biological and non biological, human or rock.

[jdeity]

omg the touretes episode was genius. When the guy kept saying sit down over here that was classic.

'how does he keep doing that?'

[Organichu]

i think my favorite Southpark moments were:

-Jesus needs to escape jail, has Kyle kill him. Kyle suffers Jew shame again haha.
-THIS IS LESBOS! SCISSOR ME TIMBERS, XERXES!!!

[McIrish]

No time is all.

Example, it affects both biological and non biological, human or rock.

I won't try to start an argument here, Rock, but again, if you believe in God, does God get older with time? How is he affected by the passage of time?

Anyhow, these are just goofy questions... I always defined time as the passage of thought, but again, thought is a human construct...

[ncsuLuke]

time is just a relative term due to the earths rotation around the sun

there is no "time" to God. he has always been and will always be. the age of stars does nothing to refute religion.

[jdeity]

i think my favorite Southpark moments were:

-Jesus needs to escape jail, has Kyle kill him. Kyle suffers Jew shame again haha.
-THIS IS LESBOS! SCISSOR ME TIMBERS, XERXES!!!

I don't even know how two women could make love.... unless they just scissored or something.

I wrote one of my essays and he wrote me back. "Thanks for writing me, essay".

[jdeity]

I won't try to start an argument here, Rock, but again, if you believe in God, does God get older with time? How is he affected by the passage of time?


god sits outside of time :thumbup:

[G-Men]

And for the record, the light that we see at night called stars, that light is millions of years old by the time we can see it. That pretty much destroys any religion and claims religion has about time.

...Not really.

[sharkall2003]

...Not really.

Yes, I know. The ignorance. It's a great thing.

[jdeity]

ahh, the religious debate thread is born once again.....

[sharkall2003]

Nope. That was my thread, and I think I had it deleted. I have a few mormon friends, they're pretty cool.

[bjohnso]

Just as an aside (and this is a philosophical question more than it is a religious question), but isn't "time" purely a human construct? I mean think about it - if you do believe in God, does God believe in time? Does time even apply to God? How would God measure time, or would he even need to? Heck, I would like to see anyone define the word time without making a self-referential statement to 'time' or 'period' or something.

Ergo, what's a bazillion years if you exist outside of time?

Just saying... it should get you thinking :)

I guess time is (at least in part) the sequence of events. You're right though - we do run into a major dilemma measuring the "time" between events, because we're always referencing a "second," an "hour," or the period of time that the earth takes to rotate or move around the sun - both of which change over time.

[Rock]

The age of the stars destroys just about everything that has to do with religion.

But so does most cavepaintings so being religious means you just have to be really unlogical.

But then again if god does exist he is an angry tyrannical avengefull evil woman hating dictator so its not much to support either.

[jdeity]

Nope. That was my thread, and I think I had it deleted.

.... you had it deleted? Why?

[Cirino83]

www.mrtwig.net

you can get any episode from any season.

Haven't seen any recent ones, but SP is the funniest show of all time.

[TwiloMike]

Finally, a mormonism thread.

[CrazyK]

Scarz of pain, religion is usually about bashing people who dont believe what they do...so we should at least be able to dispute their silly claimes with hard evidence as we do have?

Religion is a tool to dominate other peoples, especially young peoples sexuality...hence often an eldery male leader who makes sure nobody is having sex so it will be easier for him to eventually get sex. And then there is the threaths about damnation and all that stuff to keep everybody in place.

And for the record, the light that we see at night called stars, that light is millions of years old by the time we can see it. That pretty much destroys any religion and claims religion has about time.Whoa man. Do some reading on world religions. Everything you've said is not only off, but is way out of bounds.

[Sensei]

Yeah, I know I don't have a sense of humor, but I hate South Park... I think it's crap that the creators of South Park decide to bash religions and then hide behind the "Well, it's all what they really believe! People need to lighten up!" statement...

There are a lot of "fantastic" stories in every religion.

I've known many Scientologists and Mormons and they were all "normal".

[jdeity]

... normal scientologists? I was almost positive you undergo basic brainwashing pretty early in your scientology lifespan!

[Unreal]

I had a mormon chick call me up last night, ask me to come over here and f^%k here, then get her back home so she can goto conference with her grandma and sister. Fun stuff.

[Rock]

I think the worst thing you can do to a thinking logical human being is to demand that they respect religion.

Its the most awefull thing society can do to me, demand that I respect something that never has or never will have any shred of evidence too it. And respect something that basically tells me that it wants me dead.

Go South Park!

[foodist]

IM with him^^^

I mean, i understand not wanting to create some religious debate, i really do. But its just a cultural fact that here in America people are always taught to respect religions (which makes sense since we're sort of by nature a pluralistic society, and tolerance to other people's beliefs is thought of as necessary so we dont go about attacking eachother!) but in Europe, that kind of thinking doesnt exist so much, and kids arent taught that they need to respect religion.... which is why europe is gradually becoming less and less religious, and America is not.

Just an aside. Anyway, its pretty clear that the guys at southpark arent respecting mormanism, and you know what? thats fine with me.... so long as the ideas are in question/criticism and as long as its not an attack on the people. I have always believed that there are wonderful people all over this earth who believe in some f-ed up stuff.

Its ok to criticize a religion in its beliefs, its NOT ok to be inciting violence or hatred against people who believe in that religion. I think we can all agree on that!

I freakin loved that scientology episode. I think its one of the best things they ever did. This ones pretty awesome too.

[jdeity]

funny trivia - they only did the scientology episode because penn & teller's bull***** show couldn't do it. Why? Because scientology tries to sue the hell out of anyone with who draws inquiry into their insane religion, and showtime wouldn't let them do it. Luckily, penn is friends with matt/trey of southpark, so they did the episode there. Good move scientology, because it couldn't be done on a pretty obscure (but great) show, it was now done on southpark!

[jdeity]

(I take back even calling it a religion, scientology is a cult. I'm actually surprised someone here has friends who are scientologists because, as a general rule, they strongly discourage being friends w/ anyone who isn't also scientologist)

[bjohnso]

I had a mormon chick call me up last night, ask me to come over here and f^%k here, then get her back home so she can goto conference with her grandma and sister. Fun stuff.

She hawt?


funny trivia - they only did the scientology episode because penn & teller's bull***** show couldn't do it. Why? Because scientology tries to sue the hell out of anyone with who draws inquiry into their insane religion, and showtime wouldn't let them do it. Luckily, penn is friends with matt/trey of southpark, so they did the episode there. Good move scientology, because it couldn't be done on a pretty obscure (but great) show, it was now done on southpark!

There's another religious group that will try to sue the **** out of you if you criticize them, but I won't say who they are (they might try to sue the **** out of me).

Religion isn't above criticism - of course, that's not to say it should be singled out. Anyone who tries to silence criticism of their organization through litigation is a child.

[Rock]

Penn & Teller has alot of bad research in their episodes, but they do present alot of good points.

[Sensei]

I think the worst thing you can do to a thinking logical human being is to demand that they respect religion.

Its the most awefull thing society can do to me, demand that I respect something that never has or never will have any shred of evidence too it. And respect something that basically tells me that it wants me dead.

Go South Park!
There's a big difference between demanding respect and demanding not be bashed...

[jdeity]

Penn & Teller has alot of bad research in their episodes, but they do present alot of good points.

Besides the second hand smoke episode, which they corrected themselves on, and a tiny ass detail in one of the episodes about the future value of money (which I don't know if anyone besides me and a few math dorks caught), what else? They've gotta be in their 5th or 6th season by now, I've watched the entire time and haven't seen much that *sounded* out of place. If you've got any blatant examples I'd be interested to hear them.

[Organichu]

Besides the second hand smoke episode, which they corrected themselves on, and a tiny ass detail in one of the episodes about the future value of money (which I don't know if anyone besides me and a few math dorks caught), what else? They've gotta be in their 5th or 6th season by now, I've watched the entire time and haven't seen much that *sounded* out of place. If you've got any blatant examples I'd be interested to hear them.

I don't really watch the show regularly, but one of my friends who works for some sort of recycling nonprofit claims that their episode on recycling being worse than wasting is full of misinformation. He's not usually wrong about stuff like that.

I haven't looked into it myself, though.

[jdeity]

I'd be very interested to hear which points were wrong. If I recall correctly, many of the claims in that episode.. they were hedging their bets the way they phrased stuff. I think a lot of the times they said <insert product> was better off not being recycled, they were talking about overall, but acknowledged there were places that did do it efficiently and in a worthwhile manner, but just more places did not. I can see that someone may have told him a fact from the episode, that could've been presented as a 'typical situation' fact, not an absolute, and he knew immediately it wasn't true in his area, and called bull**** on it (yes, the pun was intended).

[Relentless]

.... you had it deleted? Why?

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/guidelines.php

I draw your attention to Rule #10.

If you are truly concerned about moderation of a thread, you can PM a moderator or me.

Generally speaking though, you are safe to assume that if a thread is deleted or moderated, it is because posts within it were violating the board guidelines.

[Songsangnim]

.

And for the record, the light that we see at night called stars, that light is millions of years old by the time we can see it. That pretty much destroys any religion and claims religion has about time.

No one's asking you to respect religion per se, simply have some respect for those of us who choose to follow one. Simple enough no?

As for the above quote?

You should do some reading on gravitational time dilation.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

No one's asking you to respect religion per se, simply have some respect for those of us who choose to follow one. Simple enough no?

As for the above quote?

You should do some reading on gravitational time dilation.Yeah, I agree. And as for millions of years? Uh...the nearest star is billions of light years away. That disproves certain religious claims, I suppose. But that certainly doesn't disprove a God. That just means stars are billions of light years away.

[bjohnso]

Yeah, I agree. And as for millions of years? Uh...the nearest star is billions of light years away. That disproves certain religious claims, I suppose. But that certainly doesn't disprove a God. That just means stars are billions of light years away.

The nearest star is 4 light years away.

[Rock]

It disproves all religion.

Religion has bashed nonbelievers as long as they have been around, BASHED, and still even do to today. It is the minority of religious organisations who actively preaches a friendly word to believers and non believers. Usually its just the normal fat woman or priest screaming out that we who wont believe, or we who need logic in our reasoning, will go to hell.

And when religious people have trough all ages preached their cheap domination tactics, I think its only right that South Park bashes them.

[Songsangnim]

It disproves all religion.

.


It does nothing of the kind.

GTD (as I pointed out before) accounts quite nicely for that. And this isn't supposed to be a religion bashing thread. Let's not hijack it, alright? If you want to start a religion bashing thread do it in the official religion thread please.

[Rock]

No, I am brining an army and you havent even got out your swiss yet.

You know who Dawkins is right? Have you seen the debates on youtube where he meets the top religious intellectuals? They stand little chance, because they have either reasoning, logic or intelligence to their deciving weasel like arguments.

Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator most likely does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.

He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion".

Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind...and Atheists should not be affected by the damnation that religious people spew on us. Weve been bashed, burned and killed for 1000s of years by religious morons..I think we could enjoy South Park.

[bjohnso]

No, I am brining an army and you havent even got out your swiss yet.

You know who Dawkins is right? Have you seen the debates on youtube where he meets the top religious intellectuals? They stand little chance, because they have either reasoning, logic or intelligence to their deciving weasel like arguments.

Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator most likely does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.

He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion".

Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind...and Atheists should not be affected by the damnation that religious people spew on us. Weve been bashed, burned and killed for 1000s of years by religious morons..I think we could enjoy South Park.


Why are your views regarding the persecution by slavery and the persecution by religion so radically different? Shouldn't you just "get over it?"

[Rock]

Johnson, its because society demands that you respect religion.

That is the single worst thing you can do to a rational human being.

[Sensei]

No, I am brining an army and you havent even got out your swiss yet.

You know who Dawkins is right? Have you seen the debates on youtube where he meets the top religious intellectuals? They stand little chance, because they have either reasoning, logic or intelligence to their deciving weasel like arguments.

Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator most likely does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.

He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion".

Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind...and Atheists should not be affected by the damnation that religious people spew on us. Weve been bashed, burned and killed for 1000s of years by religious morons..I think we could enjoy South Park.Every religion comes down to faith Rock. If you have no faith, fine, but that doesn't mean that all religions and religious claims are false. A debate doesn't prove or disprove anything.

[bjohnso]

Johnson, its because society demands that you respect religion.

That is the single worst thing you can do to a rational human being.

I guess. Is there some base level of respect you give people, before you feel you've been disrespected by them and then return the favor?

Surely there must be some religious people who are rational, and some atheists who are not?

[Rock]

No I disagree.

Faith does not deserve respect in the way religion demands.

Faith could lead to something, but thats it.

If you dont have faith in what you do, you got very little.

But that does not mean faith is evidence for what you do.

What you eventually do is what I respect, what I can see, feel, hear, touch.

[Sensei]

No I disagree.

Faith does not deserve respect in the way religion demands.

Faith could lead to something, but thats it.

If you dont have faith in what you do, you got very little.

But that does not mean faith is evidence for what you do.
Rock, I understand you are anti-religion. Yes, of course religions have "bashed non-religious people" for thousands of years. Religions and religious organizations are also responsible for a lot of the great advancements of mankind.


What you eventually do is what I respect, what I can see, feel, hear, touch.Nicely put. Most of the people who are on the 'non-bash' side of the argument would say something similar = no one cares who your 'respect' as long as you can behave in a civil manner in spite of disparate beliefs.

[jdeity]

If you want to start a religion bashing thread do it in the official religion thread please.

Shark apparently had teh thread pulled..

[jdeity]

No, I am brining an army and you havent even got out your swiss yet.

lol


He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion".
Or how when a kid has an imaginary friend, it's kinda cute. When an adult has one, it's insane. When a ton of adults have the same one, it's a religion :thumbup:



Atheists should be proud, not apologetic, because atheism is evidence of a healthy, independent mind...
I dunno, how on earth can an atheist prove absence of god any better than a theist can prove existence of god? Neither can imo, I'd say a healthy, independent mind is an agnostic one :hello:

[Rock]

Its too easy.

The Bible preaches Gods will and words.

The Bible, written by men.

6year olds can read and write.

Why couldnt God write his own words?

[Chubrock]

You have no faith Rock so of course none of this is going to make sense to you.

[Rock]

That is the worst argument and the most dangerous argument.

What am I supposed to have faith in? That there is a man in the sky who wants to kill me if I dont believe in him?

How can you have faith in something that you have never seen demonstrated, how can you have faith in something that is just forced upon you and plays on your loyality and emotions?

Its something that makes people rich, politicians, preachers and so on...and as long as they get rich there is not going to be a larger debate stripping religion of all logic. And hence the emotional pressure to believe and have faith will continue.

[Chubrock]

It isn't so much of a faith in some man in the sky wanting to kill me if I piss him off, but a faith that there is more to life even after I stop breathing and my heart stops beating.

Explain to me how my argument is dangerous, and how believing in someone who states that we should treat people with kindness and respect is dangerous?

[sharkall2003]

That is the worst argument and the most dangerous argument.

What am I supposed to have faith in? That there is a man in the sky who wants to kill me if I dont believe in him?

How can you have faith in something that you have never seen demonstrated, how can you have faith in something that is just forced upon you and plays on your loyality and emotions?

Its something that makes people rich, politicians, preachers and so on...and as long as they get rich there is not going to be a larger debate stripping religion of all logic. And hence the emotional pressure to believe and have faith will continue.

Have you read religious script? If not, please be informed and do. You have found a way to alienate just about anyone who believes in something.

[Rock]

Yes I have read the Bible.

I was very amazed that the contradictions where so highlighted and clear.

God says that you shall only perform his will and he is the only rulor.

But then it says that woman must do what the man wants.

How is that possible if one will follow Gods will only?

Its basically a book that teaches you how to be tyrannical, abusive, violent, hatefull and how to dominate women and their sexuality.

[Chubrock]

Explain to me how my argument is dangerous, and how believing in someone who states that we should treat people with kindness and respect is dangerous?

....

[jdeity]

It's dangerous because it encourages you to take belief of something without giving you any logical rationale, without providing any facts, and asks you to believe it, as rock said, 'because it is something that is just forced upon you and plays on your loyality and emotions'.

[lilmase1153]

....

7008 posts??? I am sooo dissapointed :mad:

South Park is freaking hilarious and pokes fun about everyone and everything...

On the whole religious debate Wow. Simply put there are a lot of religious who bash the non-religious but there are also a lot of non-religious who bash the religious(tongue twister).. If what you do is what you enjoy fine but its when you become fanatic about it (either in your faith or lack there of) and impose your beliefs onto others, than that is where the problem lies.

IMo of course

[Chubrock]

7008 posts??? I am sooo dissapointed :mad:



On the whole religious debate Wow. Simply put there are a lot of religious who bash the non-religious but there are also a lot of non-religious who bash the religious(tongue twister).. If what you do is what you enjoy fine but its when you become fanatic about it (either in your faith or lack there of) and impose your beliefs onto others, than that is where the problem lies.

IMo of course





Hahaha yea it was getting to be too much of a problem to keep the round number. The last part of your post was one of the best in this thread.









I'm still waiting to see how believing in a God that wants you to treat people with kindness and respect is dangerous...

[Rock]

Chubrock, in many ways it is dangerous.

You can become President and be directly responsible for crashing the economy and simply say, God bless.

And then its allright..because you did say God bless didnt you.

Beliving in something that does not show, that does do, that does not say, that does not listen and giving that something all power is extremely dangerous.

[bjohnso]

Chubrock, in many ways it is dangerous.

You can become President and be directly responsible for crashing the economy and simply say, God bless.

Or you could believe in no god, crash the economy, shrug your shoulders when it happens and say "whoops." What difference does it make?


And then its allright..because you did say God bless didnt you.

No, because you still have free will and you still crashed the economy. Someone has to answer for it.


Beliving in something that does not show, that does do, that does not say, that does not listen and giving that something all power is extremely dangerous.

There are plenty of non-religious people who believe dumb stuff with no scientific backing at all, so to characterize this recklessness as a purely religious trait is silly.

[Rock]

Bjohnson you did not understand the point I made.

It doesnt matter what Bush does, the bible belt will still always support him, because he says he believes in the same fictional fantasy stories that they do and when he says God bless or in the name of God he gets votes, no matter how he actually is as a president.

[lilmase1153]

Bjohnson you did not understand the point I made.

It doesnt matter what Bush does, the bible belt will still always support him, because he says he believes in the same fictional fantasy stories that they do and when he says God bless or in the name of God he gets votes, no matter how he actually is as a president.

You do also realize that yes maybe he does hide behind a faith, he has the lowest approval rating of all time.. Just because he may use faith as a crutch does not mean the U.S. as a whole agrees with it.

*This is not me blasting the president, I was just using what rock is stating and making a point based off his assumptions* I do not want to debate the preident in a South Park thread :alcoholic:

[CrazyK]

Its too easy.

The Bible preaches Gods will and words.

The Bible, written by men.

6year olds can read and write.

Why couldnt God write his own words?Apparently the term "religion" only encompasses Christianity for you. Did you know there are other views of God(s), supernatural forces, and philosophy in the world?

[bjohnso]

Bjohnson you did not understand the point I made.

It doesnt matter what Bush does, the bible belt will still always support him, because he says he believes in the same fictional fantasy stories that they do and when he says God bless or in the name of God he gets votes, no matter how he actually is as a president.

Is that why he has <30% approval rating and is seen as a religious quack by many? Quite a few religious people regularly vote for the opposite party. Why do some staunch atheists, such as Christopher Hitchens, continue to support Bush?

[Chubrock]

Rock, for some reason you seem to think that all religions, all religious people persecute and damn all those that don't believe the same thing. You seem to believe that all religious people promote war, or the destruction of all atheists and then hide beyond their beliefs. Great stereotype man.

[sharkall2003]

Yes I have read the Bible.

I was very amazed that the contradictions where so highlighted and clear.

God says that you shall only perform his will and he is the only rulor.

But then it says that woman must do what the man wants.

How is that possible if one will follow Gods will only?

Its basically a book that teaches you how to be tyrannical, abusive, violent, hatefull and how to dominate women and their sexuality.

You can keep thinking that. It seems as if my girlfriend is currently very happy with our relationship, in which we both go to Church every Sunday and we have a very loving and caring relationship. I won't diss you, because I have the same kind of views racially speaking. I've made broad generalizations. However, I hope you can see that just because someone is religious doesn't mean they're bad.

[Rock]

No and I never said that.

I got many good semi-religious friends, they are the best people.

I call them semi, because they do not follow all of the commands, ethics and rules of the bible.

If they did follow what the bible preach they would be in jail, so naturally they cant.

But either you follow "Gods" word or you dont.

[sharkall2003]

Do you understand that if a Christian man is to beat his wife and make her do things that are not humane he is responsible for all that? That he will pay for the harms that he has caused. That he shall receive a similar punishment. Have you went to church? Do you actually listen, or do you just hear what you want to hear?

[jdeity]

No and I never said that.

I got many good semi-religious friends, they are the best people.

I call them semi, because they do not follow all of the commands, ethics and rules of the bible.

If they did follow what the bible preach they would be in jail, so naturally they cant.

But either you follow "Gods" word or you dont.

See that's what I can't stand. I recently moved to FL and soooo many people here are christian! The really messed up part though is that they actually behave in ways that completely contradict what they supposedly believe in fully. I've seen a local christian (an adult/parent) actually steal something from someone in the neighborhood because she thought it was for the best (and it was for the best imo), but talk about not respecting your neighbor, and actually stealing something. It made me wonder a lot about how much she truly believes what she preaches. I mean, if she believes stealing is a sin, and sins lead to hell, then why would she be so quick to steal the damn thing!

[Rock]

Well most people are stupid and uneducated.

And stealing is mostly genetic...how does God explain that?

[sharkall2003]

Well most people are stupid and uneducated.

And stealing is mostly genetic...how does God explain that?

You want to give me unbiased scientific evidence that supports that claim since you're on the science side.

[ncsuLuke]

i still want to know how the light from stars refutes religions

[CrazyK]

Well most people are stupid and uneducated.

And stealing is mostly genetic...how does God explain that?Stealing is mostly genetic? Please provide proof to back up that claim.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Well most people are stupid and uneducated.

And stealing is mostly genetic...how does God explain that?WTF are you talking about?

[sharkall2003]

Rock, I think you're talking out of your ass. My common sense tells me that.

Seriously, if you think that stealing is genetic, and that stars defy religion you can keep thinking that. If you think that Bible thumpers are bad people, so be it. You're most certainly allowed to have an opinion. However, next time someone says that Atheists are rude and obnoxious towards religious people don't get all worked up.

[Organichu]

However, next time someone says that Atheists are rude and obnoxious towards religious people don't get all worked up.

But but... I'm polite and tolerant. :(

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Lies! You have to fall into a stereotype! Don't you know?

[sharkall2003]

But but... I'm polite and tolerant. :(

I hope there is sarcasm. I find nothing wrong with Atheists. They believe in science. I believe in God. I keep it at that. I'm willing to look at both sides.

[Rock]

I am not getting worked up.

I am not calling any specific member names or using any unfair strategy.

I like WBB, I love most of the members and WBB is an important source of friendship and information.

But! I do not like how religious people can demand resect for their belief, and how they can reset science and logic after their own will.

Being a cleptomaniac is a proven genetical disorder wich is often inherited.

But yes I believe that stealing is genetic.

2000years ago the Greek had a thumb-rule, when there is a russian on the hill, count your olives.

In Norway russians make up 1% of the population and they are middleclass, they stand for 99% of all theft in all forms and many of them admit that its genetic.

[Organichu]

I hope there is sarcasm. I find nothing wrong with Atheists. They believe in science. I believe in God. I keep it at that. I'm willing to look at both sides.

lol it wasn't really sarcasm. I think the problem here (especially the problem with Rock's posts) is the amount of generalization.

[sharkall2003]

So, what tradition tells you that stealing is genetic? Where is the science? That doesn't seem to scientific to me. Especially since you believe so much in the sciences.

[sharkall2003]

lol it wasn't really sarcasm. I think the problem here (especially the problem with Rock's posts) is the amount of generalization.

I totally understood that. I guess I thought you were poking fun at me. Well, lets go to the bar, grab a few beers, and talk about how all those mormons are crazy. :burger:

[Rock]

Organichu, most people fit perfectly under generalization.


Example :

Girls who are abused when they are children always search after a-holes and ends up being used.


I think there are many christians and muslims, buddhists and hindues who do positive in this world. But I do not respect their actual belief, If they tell me a rock in the ground is holy I will not step on that rock, but inside me I dont respect it.

[sharkall2003]

It's okay if you don't respect God, or those beliefs. I think I was catching the drift that you don't respect people that do believe. And that would be probably one of the most outlandish things I've ever heard.

[jdeity]

That's all well and good, but











I like south park :zipit: :zipit:

[Organichu]

Organichu, most people fit perfectly under generalization.


Example :

Girls who are abused when they are children always search after a-holes and ends up being used.

That's the thing- that is not always true.

"Women are impetuous".
"Blacks are violent".
"Gays don't hold up well under stress".

These are some controversial generalizations. Now, for some reason you seem to hold that people only disagree with generalizations like these because they're not PC.

This is the crux: people aren't PC 'because it's polite'. People are PC because generally comments that offend people aren't true. You know why I don't like when people say religious people are all sheep? Because not all religious people are sheep.

[ncsuLuke]

actually south park already did an episode on this kind of a debate

in the future there were no religions and people still argued over the same things

[jdeity]

Yeah they did, that's what the quote under my username, my avatar, and my signature are all from.

In the future there was no religion, there was different sects of atheism, and they all fought over their answer to 'the great question'.

[nejar462]

As an atheist I must say my main problem with religious people is when they try to impose their beliefs on others or try to legislate.

For example, I find creationism as an affront to science and knowledge. Teaching it in school is not correct. Most biologists don't believe in it, making it a fringe theory.

If you teach creationism, you have to teach EVERY fringe theory of science, which, (take this from a scientist) will get crazy. Electric Sun, Ether theories, every theory on the environmental impact of humans has a huge amount of debate by many parties.

I also don't think churches and church contributions should be tax exempt. I think that creates an artificial tax on atheism.

People suicide bombing themselves because they think they will go to heaven is also an attack to me.

I mean if you're not going to affect my life or others, I don't think I can reasonably say what you're doing is wrong or right. If you try to legislate your religion or put it on my in any way I think you deserve my dislike.

On a personal level, I try not to believe in things that are not rational and based on facts and encourage the same thinking in others. Once you abandon rational thought and start having "faith" in things, I think you start walking a VERY dangerous line. To be honest, when someone tells me they believe in a religion I feel they might as well tell me they believe in Santa Claus or investing in the lottery is a wise idea.

[BilltheButcher]

As an atheist I must say my main problem with religious people is when they try to impose their beliefs on others or try to legislate.

For example, I find creationism as an affront to science and knowledge. Teaching it in school is not correct. Most biologists don't believe in it, making it a fringe theory.

If you teach creationism, you have to teach EVERY fringe theory of science, which, (take this from a scientist) will get crazy. Electric Sun, Ether theories, every theory on the environmental impact of humans has a huge amount of debate by many parties.

I also don't think churches and church contributions should be tax exempt. I think that creates an artificial tax on atheism.

People suicide bombing themselves because they think they will go to heaven is also an attack to me.

I mean if you're not going to affect my life or others, I don't think I can reasonably say what you're doing is wrong or right. If you try to legislate your religion or put it on my in any way I think you deserve my dislike.

On a personal level, I try not to believe in things that are not rational and based on facts and encourage the same thinking in others. Once you abandon rational thought and start having "faith" in things, I think you start walking a VERY dangerous line. To be honest, when someone tells me they believe in a religion I feel they might as well tell me they believe in Santa Claus or investing in the lottery is a wise idea.

First, why shouldn't they be tax exempt? Do you even have the slightest clue what churches do for the community and the amount of volunteer work and charity work they do? Who's imposing their beliefs now and trying to legislate? Maybe all the generous atheists can pool their money together and start feeding the needy and running soup kitchens and organizing clothing drives for the poor. Oh, thats right atheists like to finger point and hope the government actually does something, which we all know they don't.

You do realize that this country was built on Christian beliefs and values and that you probably live your life according to those values and beliefs and that those values and beliefs make up who you are and you don't even know it. Granted its a broad brush, but our USA society and laws are molded by Christian beliefs.

I am a practicing Catholic and I go to mass weekly. My faith is a huge part of my life and raising my children to be Catholic is very important to me and my family. I don't try to convert anyone, I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone b/c I believe the bible is a guideline on how to live your life and most good citizens already live that way. Living by the 10 Commandments is near impossible, heck I steal the hearts of ladies everyday just walking around, and I'm not going to live the rest of my life not leaving the house.

I don't believe people who have faith are ignorant or idiots like you are implying. I have to assume you mean the religious zealots and crazy's who run around killing abortion doctors. If not are you are trying to tell me that the smartest people to come out of this country are idiots b/c they believe in God?

Also there was a santa claus, St. Nicholas and I believe it is wise for you take all your money and buy as many lottery tickets as you can.

To quote Tommy Boy, "Sinner".

[McIrish]

Guys, back to the South Park...

I think the best part was at the end where the kid (Gary?) told Stan "...I don't care if you don't believe my faith. You couldn't look past [my faith] to see what kind of a person I am. You have a lot of growing up to do - lick my balls."

How eloquent. It has a lot of truth to it, though - heck, if you're a good person, do I care if you believe that Jesus came to America hundreds of years ago? Do good things to one another.

[Blanche_Soprano]

But I do not respect their actual belief, If they tell me a rock in the ground is holy I will not step on that rock, but inside me I dont respect it.

That sounds an awful lot like respecting their belief to me. Do you mean that you respect their beliefs, but don't believe them? I respect the fact that you don't believe the same things I do, but I'm not going to make fun of you for them.

[jdeity]

As an atheist I must say my main problem with religious people is when they try to impose their beliefs on others or try to legislate.


Same here. And I'm not just talking about the guys who come to my door, or to places I've worked at, etc, trying to convert me. I'm talking about everyone just assuming you're christian. "God bless you" when you sneeze, crap like that annoys me to no end!

And about creationism in school, that's just laughable. If creationism is allowed in a public school, how the hell is that not joining church/state? Creationism has ZERO foothold in science, only in myth/religion. Just because a lot of people like the idea of it doesn't mean it has a *single* shred of science behind it, and thus should not be touched in a science class.
(I should've prefaced to say I don't have too much of a problem with it being taught in a philosophy or bible analysis class or anything. I'm talking about the schools that are actually trying to teach this as if it were real)

[lilmase1153]

I'm talking about everyone just assuming you're christian. "God bless you" when you sneeze, crap like that annoys me to no end!


What if someone were to just say "Bless you" after you sneeze and have no religous implications but rather just trying to be polite... Would that be annoying, a lot of people say things without the meaning the phrase or word initially had/meant. Has someone ever said "hey, how are you" and you reply "I'm good, you" even though you can be mad or sad or just having a crappy day.. Its like a reflex to say certain things

Not attacking you, just seeing rather if it is wrong for someone who intended to be polite as opposed to assuming your of a certain religious belief.. something to think about, maybe its wrong for you to assume what their intentions were.....

[jdeity]

Even if their intentions are not to insinuate they believe I'm christian, showering me with 'god bless you', 'merry christmas', etc, it just gets really annoying if you don't believe in the stuff. I definitely presume most just do it w/o even thinking about it, but it's hard for me to not think about it. It's only mildly annoying, in fact it's just kind of funny sometimes. With the 'merry christmas' thing, that's almost not even annoying, I almost get a kick out of that because it makes me start thinking, and smiling, about how many christians celebrate christmas based on presents and a day off instead of the birth of their supposed savior.

[lilmase1153]

You see thats the thing how many people who say "Merry christmas" mean it in terms of a belief as opposed to a kind act ie season to be jolly? I am practically programmed to say "Bless you" after I hear a sneeze and it takes a lot of control to not say it sometimes.

I am not Religious by any means and I am certainly not implying my religous belief when I say it rather I was brought up thinking it was the polite and courteous thing to do.

[BilltheButcher]

Even if their intentions are not to insinuate they believe I'm christian, showering me with 'god bless you', 'merry christmas', etc, it just gets really annoying if you don't believe in the stuff. I definitely presume most just do it w/o even thinking about it, but it's hard for me to not think about it. It's only mildly annoying, in fact it's just kind of funny sometimes. With the 'merry christmas' thing, that's almost not even annoying, I almost get a kick out of that because it makes me start thinking, and smiling, about how many christians celebrate christmas based on presents and a day off instead of the birth of their supposed savior.

Do you celebrate Christmas?

[jdeity]

nope

[BilltheButcher]

nope

So no one in your life has Christmas dinner or gives you gifts or you give them gifts. Nothing like that. I kind of find that hard to believe. So you grew up not having a Christmas tree and not getting Christmas presents.

[jdeity]

Oh I celebrated when I was young, the way you phrased it gave me the impression you were asking me if I celebrated christmas currently. My christmas last year was spent alone with my fiance in our college apartment which was almost completely deserted except for us. If we didn't have work the day before and after christmas (both managed retail stores at the local mall) we would've gone home and had a nice dinner with her parents, and probably stopped by my parents.

But, that wouldn't have been celebrating christmas. Her family isn't religious, if anything her step dad would be celebrating hanukah and her mom would be celebrating nothing (buddhist). That would've been having a nice dinner on a day where, if you're not christian, you basically have nothing to do. Having a nice dinner on christmas doesn't make you christian, it's probably more of a 'I want to fit in, and not feel left out on the day where everyone else is having fun'.

Oh and about gifts, my parents give me gifts, as do hers. That doesn't mean I celebrate christmas, it's just an end of the year type thing, again probably so we feel more normal and not left out. But as I said, her parents aren't even remotely christian, they're completely different religions/beliefs. Also, I buy a present for my younger brother who's too young to understand the reasoning I'd have for not giving him a present. Does that mean I'm celebrating christmas? In my book it doesn't but I can see how you'd think it does.

[jdeity]

Wow, sorry that was so long lol. Let me sum it up. I do things on christmas at times but it has nothing to do with 'celebrating christmas'. Rather, it's taking advantage of a national day off where most everyone I know is busy with their families doing christmas stuff to do comparable activities, but I'd never ever look at that as 'celebrating christmas'. As said, it's hard to celebrate christmas if nobody in the room believes in christianity.

[BilltheButcher]

Wow, sorry that was so long lol. Let me sum it up. I do things on christmas at times but it has nothing to do with 'celebrating christmas'. Rather, it's taking advantage of a national day off where most everyone I know is busy with their families doing christmas stuff to do comparable activities, but I'd never ever look at that as 'celebrating christmas'. As said, it's hard to celebrate christmas if nobody in the room believes in christianity.

Ya, I hear you. Where you get mad when people say God Bless You, I actually say Bless You, but my pet peeve is people who make fun of religion and those who believe in it and then participate in all the holidays. Its not like XMAS is really a christian holiday anymore anyways with the money being made, but if you are truely an atheist don't ahve a XMAS tree and partake in the festivities. I like how you guys do an end of year thing, almost like a New Years gift giving thing, I know lots of people that do that.

Anyways have fun burning in he!! for eternity. :evillaugh:

[jdeity]

but my pet peeve is people who make fun of religion and those who believe in it and then participate in all the holidays.
Why is that a pet peeve? For instance, if someone's an atheist (oh btw I'm not an atheist, I think you think I am), and their entire family is christian, I don't see anything wrong with them participating in the activities. As even you said, it's not even really viewed as a 'holy' day anymore. It's just a day of festivities, with the christian name for it.

But if someone is atheist, imo there's nothing wrong with them attending christian celebrations - as they simply don't believe it, so why would they care if they're gonna have fun and eat food? I *do* understand it the other way around, for instance, I'd say a true christian may not wanna go to a satanic party and vice versa, just on principal. But if you're atheist you don't have any principal to really back, you just see the cross and place it in the same category as a picture of zeus or something. I don't think an atheist would have trouble going to a greek mythology party, and likewise they probably wouldn't have a problem going to a christmas party. I'm not a scientologist but I've gone to one of their centers before (yes, to cause problems and be an annoying ******* :clap: ).



Its not like XMAS is really a christian holiday anymore anyways with the money being made,
I know I've already mentioned this, I think in this thread, but I'll say it again. That's something that pisses me off to no end about people who call themselves christians. They celebrate christmas, but they celebrate it almost the same way an atheist celebrates a festivity, they don't spend the day thinking about christ. In my eyes that falls into the same category as your average church goer who does sunday services, has jesus bumper stickers, and then completely acts out of line regarding the commandments (I used the example of a religious neighbor who stole from another neighbor before, my fiance and I were straight-up stunned that this woman was serious about stealing a -------, and then actually went through with it. We couldn't believe it, I mean it's a married couple with multiple kids, constantly displaying religious stuff, yet have no hesitation to go and steal because they thought it was the 'right' thing to do. I also thought it was the right thing to do, don't get me wrong, but I'm not the one who supposedly believes in the 10 commandments. Kinda makes me wonder what % of christians can even cite the holy 10!).






but if you are truely an atheist don't ahve a XMAS tree and partake in the festivities.
See I just don't see a problem, I don't have christmas trees, but if I wanted one I'd feel nothing wrong with it. I have no problem with some of my greek mythology artwork, and likewise I'd have no problem with christian stuff. !!! Actually, now that I think of it, I have religious stuff in my house! I even keep a bible in my car!





Anyways have fun burning in he!! for eternity. :evillaugh:
Haha! Save me a room by the furnace :zipit:

[McIrish]

Even if their intentions are not to insinuate they believe I'm christian, showering me with 'god bless you', 'merry christmas', etc, it just gets really annoying if you don't believe in the stuff. I definitely presume most just do it w/o even thinking about it, but it's hard for me to not think about it. It's only mildly annoying, in fact it's just kind of funny sometimes. With the 'merry christmas' thing, that's almost not even annoying, I almost get a kick out of that because it makes me start thinking, and smiling, about how many christians celebrate christmas based on presents and a day off instead of the birth of their supposed savior.

Now, deity, I'm just sayin', but isn't the word "good" just some derivation of the word "God"? :) Just watch out when someone asks you how you're doing next time so you dont' accidentally invoke God when you want to say that you're doing "just fine thankyouverymuch".

I might be totally off on that, but I seem to remember having heard it once...

[jdeity]

I wouldn't be very surprised if you were right on the semantical origins of good. However, that really isn't relevant to why it would bother people. If someone is bothered by me saying I feel 'good', because they are making a god association, that's their problem for being crazy. That's not the same thing as people using religious tid bits on the regular as if everyone in the world believed what they did. (did I explain that properly?)

[sharkall2003]

Maybe I have a problem with your problem about me using little tid bits. You have your own agenda. And I have mine. Regardless of how nice I try to be, people will want more from me.

[BilltheButcher]

Why is that a pet peeve? For instance, if someone's an atheist (oh btw I'm not an atheist, I think you think I am), and their entire family is christian, I don't see anything wrong with them participating in the activities. As even you said, it's not even really viewed as a 'holy' day anymore. It's just a day of festivities, with the christian name for it.

I don't have a problem with them spending time with their family during the holidays if they don't believe in that religious holiday. I have a pet peeve of people that mock religious people like they are simpltons for having faith in something that is not tangible. And that they are so intellectual and above it all since if there is no physical proof and it can't be proven to them scientifically that there is a God. Its called faith, you don't have to believe or not I don't care.


But if someone is atheist, imo there's nothing wrong with them attending christian celebrations - as they simply don't believe it, so why would they care if they're gonna have fun and eat food? I *do* understand it the other way around, for instance, I'd say a true christian may not wanna go to a satanic party and vice versa, just on principal. But if you're atheist you don't have any principal to really back, you just see the cross and place it in the same category as a picture of zeus or something. I don't think an atheist would have trouble going to a greek mythology party, and likewise they probably wouldn't have a problem going to a christmas party. I'm not a scientologist but I've gone to one of their centers before (yes, to cause problems and be an annoying ******* :clap: ).

Ya, I am not so blinded by my faith to not try and experience other people's beliefs and ideas. Trust me I am no angel, especially 10 years ago, you name it I did it. I am not born again, I just started going to Mass and really enjoy the message and how they help the poor and needy.


I know I've already mentioned this, I think in this thread, but I'll say it again. That's something that pisses me off to no end about people who call themselves christians. They celebrate christmas, but they celebrate it almost the same way an atheist celebrates a festivity, they don't spend the day thinking about christ. In my eyes that falls into the same category as your average church goer who does sunday services, has jesus bumper stickers, and then completely acts out of line regarding the commandments (I used the example of a religious neighbor who stole from another neighbor before, my fiance and I were straight-up stunned that this woman was serious about stealing a -------, and then actually went through with it. We couldn't believe it, I mean it's a married couple with multiple kids, constantly displaying religious stuff, yet have no hesitation to go and steal because they thought it was the 'right' thing to do. I also thought it was the right thing to do, don't get me wrong, but I'm not the one who supposedly believes in the 10 commandments. Kinda makes me wonder what % of christians can even cite the holy 10!).

I have to uncles who are priests, so we actually reenact the whole birth of Jesus and the story. As crazy as that sound, its a lot of fun and we actually sing happy birthday to Jesus.

[CrazyK]

I don't have a problem with them spending time with their family during the holidays if they don't believe in that religious holiday. I have a pet peeve of people that mock religious people like they are simpltons for having faith in something that is not tangible. And that they are so intellectual and above it all since if there is no physical proof and it can't be proven to them scientifically that there is a God. Its called faith, you don't have to believe or not I don't care.Very much agreed here. Atheism is no more plausible or intellectual then theism. Theism is in fact a more complete theory.

[jdeity]

Maybe I have a problem with your problem about me using little tid bits. You have your own agenda. And I have mine. Regardless of how nice I try to be, people will want more from me.
Whoa shark... I have my own agenda? And that would be what, exactly? I never said I wanted more. I said I found it slightly annoying. Asking for more would be asking people to stifle their speech, which is something I'm strongly against. Just because someone annoys me does not mean I want them to no longer have that ability.

[jdeity]

Very much agreed here. Atheism is no more plausible or intellectual then theism. Theism is in fact a more complete theory.

That would make theism more plausible/intellectual, wouldn't it?

[BilltheButcher]

That would make theism more plausible/intellectual, wouldn't it?

No it would make the people who believe in religion, better looking, more muscular, smarter, more successful, and overall the best people around.

[jdeity]

haha shuuure!!

[nejar462]

Thanks jdeity for the catch, double post.

[nejar462]

Sigh, normally I don't like to get into internet arguments but I'm afraid children might read this and believe.

"First, why shouldn't they be tax exempt? Do you even have the slightest clue what churches do for the community and the amount of volunteer work and charity work they do?"

You can make their charitable work tax free without making their religion work tax free. For example, I give money to charity, should I not have to pay taxes at all?

"Who's imposing their beliefs now and trying to legislate?"

Religious people. Atheists by definition don't have beliefs because they only believe in things which have evidence. I'm not trying to legislate either, its deligslation because I'm removing a law from the tax code.

"Maybe all the generous atheists can pool their money together and start feeding the needy and running soup kitchens and organizing clothing drives for the poor. Oh, thats right atheists like to finger point and hope the government actually does something, which we all know they don't."

I'm a libertarian, I hope the government does nothing. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are basically atheist/agnostics, they have each made the biggest charitable contributions of mankind. I donate to charities as well. I have no idea why you'd assume atheists don't give money to charity or why you'd think they want government involvement.

"You do realize that this country was built on Christian beliefs and values and that you probably live your life according to those values and beliefs and that those values and beliefs make up who you are and you don't even know it. Granted its a broad brush, but our USA society and laws are molded by Christian beliefs."

USA was shaped by people of many faiths and backgrounds. For example, basic algebra and arithmetic was originally developed by muslims and indians. Math forms the basis of the entire economic/technological structure of America. Another example are the greek philosophers (they were atheists), who basically originated all of the Western thought. Our government is actually very similar to one described by Plato, and Athens is considered one of the first and most important democracies. The contributions of Native Americans was also highly important. The constitution does call for a separation of church and state.

Christianity borrows from other cultures as well. Scholars believe Christmas was chosen to be December 25th because Pagans worshipped during the solistice.

"I am a practicing Catholic and I go to mass weekly. My faith is a huge part of my life and raising my children to be Catholic is very important to me and my family. I don't try to convert anyone, I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone b/c I believe the bible is a guideline on how to live your life and most good citizens already live that way. Living by the 10 Commandments is near impossible, heck I steal the hearts of ladies everyday just walking around, and I'm not going to live the rest of my life not leaving the house."

ok.

"I don't believe people who have faith are ignorant or idiots like you are implying. I have to assume you mean the religious zealots and crazy's who run around killing abortion doctors. If not are you are trying to tell me that the smartest people to come out of this country are idiots b/c they believe in God?"

There's actually an inverse relationship between religiousity and intelligence (at least measured by IQ tests). I got the reference if you want to look it up.

Reference for fun:

Bell, Paul. "Would you believe it?" Mensa Magazine, UK Edition, Feb. 2002, pp. 12–13. Analyzing 43 studies carried out since 1927, Bell found that all but four reported such a connection, and he concluded that "the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold 'beliefs' of any kind."


"Also there was a santa claus, St. Nicholas and I believe it is wise for you take all your money and buy as many lottery tickets as you can."

I don't consider St. Nicholas and Santa Claus to be one in the same. Similarly, I will concede Jesus exists because there is evidence of him, however I won't concede he had any divine powers.

"To quote Tommy Boy, "Sinner"."

ok.

I don't want to get into a flame war. I apologize if I offended anyone and this will be my last post in the thread. I believe religion has a lot to offer in terms of moral teachings. Personally I believe Jesus was one of the greatest men to walk the earth. I just don't believe in supernatural things or things with no evidence.

[BilltheButcher]

Sigh, normally I don't like to get into internet arguments but I'm afraid children might read this and believe.

"First, why shouldn't they be tax exempt? Do you even have the slightest clue what churches do for the community and the amount of volunteer work and charity work they do?"

You can make their charitable work tax free without making their religion work tax free. For example, I give money to charity, should I not have to pay taxes at all?

"Who's imposing their beliefs now and trying to legislate?"

Religious people. Atheists by definition don't have beliefs because they only believe in things which have evidence. I'm not trying to legislate either, its deligslation because I'm removing a law from the tax code.

"Maybe all the generous atheists can pool their money together and start feeding the needy and running soup kitchens and organizing clothing drives for the poor. Oh, thats right atheists like to finger point and hope the government actually does something, which we all know they don't."

I'm a libertarian, I hope the government does nothing. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are basically atheist/agnostics, they have each made the biggest charitable contributions of mankind. I donate to charities as well. I have no idea why you'd assume atheists don't give money to charity or why you'd think they want government involvement.

"You do realize that this country was built on Christian beliefs and values and that you probably live your life according to those values and beliefs and that those values and beliefs make up who you are and you don't even know it. Granted its a broad brush, but our USA society and laws are molded by Christian beliefs."

USA was shaped by people of many faiths and backgrounds. For example, basic algebra and arithmetic was originally developed by muslims and indians. Math forms the basis of the entire economic/technological structure of America. Another example are the greek philosophers (they were atheists), who basically originated all of the Western thought. Our government is actually very similar to one described by Plato, and Athens is considered one of the first and most important democracies. The contributions of Native Americans was also highly important. The constitution does call for a separation of church and state.

Christianity borrows from other cultures as well. Scholars believe Christmas was chosen to be December 25th because Pagans worshipped during the solistice.

"I am a practicing Catholic and I go to mass weekly. My faith is a huge part of my life and raising my children to be Catholic is very important to me and my family. I don't try to convert anyone, I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone b/c I believe the bible is a guideline on how to live your life and most good citizens already live that way. Living by the 10 Commandments is near impossible, heck I steal the hearts of ladies everyday just walking around, and I'm not going to live the rest of my life not leaving the house."

ok.

"I don't believe people who have faith are ignorant or idiots like you are implying. I have to assume you mean the religious zealots and crazy's who run around killing abortion doctors. If not are you are trying to tell me that the smartest people to come out of this country are idiots b/c they believe in God?"

There's actually an inverse relationship between religiousity and intelligence (at least measured by IQ tests). I got the reference if you want to look it up.

Reference for fun:

Bell, Paul. "Would you believe it?" Mensa Magazine, UK Edition, Feb. 2002, pp. 12–13. Analyzing 43 studies carried out since 1927, Bell found that all but four reported such a connection, and he concluded that "the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold 'beliefs' of any kind."


"Also there was a santa claus, St. Nicholas and I believe it is wise for you take all your money and buy as many lottery tickets as you can."

I don't consider St. Nicholas and Santa Claus to be one in the same. Similarly, I will concede Jesus exists because there is evidence of him, however I won't concede he had any divine powers.

"To quote Tommy Boy, "Sinner"."

ok.

I've noticed in almost all threads you and I don't agree on anything. You make some good points, and maybe some day I'll retort, but know this. I'm rubber and your glue, whatever crazy obscure skewed academia study you can find, or anti-religious belief you say, bounces of me and sticks to you.

[jdeity]

haha lol I haven't heard that in forever :zipit:

nejar you double posted that, I think you edited the 2nd so you may wanna delete ur first

[Cirino83]

Back on topic of SP....anyone see last night's episode about the world's largest crap? lol

[lilmase1153]

"Bono want the biddy?"

[Cirino83]

"Bono want the biddy?"

bahahahahahahaha funniest thing I've seen in a while. I was cracking up when he said that then whipped out his tit to breast feed him HAHAHAHAHA