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View Full Version : Help with my bulk. Here's my 10 month progress



johny12345
10-14-2007, 11:55 PM
I made a thread here: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=93584 about 10 months ago (you can see pics of me then) to see if I should bulk or cut. I decided to bulk.

I went strong for about 5 months, then I took about 2 months off, and I've been going strong for the last three. I am currently on a 4000-5000 calorie bulk and I'm wondering what everyone thinks. I work very hard and I'm very frustrated with my body to say the least.

I read that thread on here about how not to bulk and I just don't want that to happen to me.

Please do not hold back critisism AT ALL. I want to know what I'm doing right/wrong or what I should change.


Here are my gains since then......

bench from 115 to 150 5x5
dl from 200 to 295 5x5
squat from 115 to 225 5x5

measurements:
-gained 1.5" on biceps
-gained 1.5" on fore arms
-gained 2" on quads
-Stomach and chest (belly button and nipples) both went up about two inches. I don't know if that is fat, or muslce. Sigh.....

I'm taking nitrean, aln mono 500 creatine, and a lot of food. Also, I'm using the bgb routine.

anyway, thanks in advance for the advice.

ederon
10-15-2007, 10:07 PM
you need to cut down to about 180 ish
develop some core strength then work your way up thats my advice, but good luck either way

johny12345
10-15-2007, 11:16 PM
So, you think that I should be cutting, not bulking?

thank you for the help I appreciate it.

oh, and what do you mean develop core strength?

matanyo
10-16-2007, 12:20 AM
man i suggest
you should be cutting
lose a little more of that extra on you.
do you have a healthy diet?
you like to jog? well thats a good way to shed and get your heart in good shape.
keep lifting and build that core like ederon suggested. the core is ESSENTIAL.

stay dedicated

johny12345
10-16-2007, 12:55 AM
Hey, thanks so much for replying.

My diet is pretty good. I could clean it up a little bit by eating more fruits and vegetables...but there is NO junk. I could make my fitday public but I forgot how.

I do like to jog. I don't see how that would help "shed," if I am eating over maintenance.

What do you mean by building the core?

***Please keep in mind that on this current bulk, I am seeing results like I have never seen before. I am literally watching my numbers go up and noticing myself getting bigger almost weekly.

Jorge Sanchez
10-16-2007, 12:10 PM
I think you need to cut down your calories drastically. You've put on a lot of fat in the past 10 months, and to be perfectly frank your fat gain outweighs your strength and muscle gains.

I know you want to get bigger and stronger, but I think 4000-5000 calories is far too much for you; you're gaining unnecessary fat. Do you know what your maintenance is?

johny12345
10-16-2007, 01:10 PM
you think I added a lot of fat? that is good to know. It is hard for me to tell on myself.

My maint. is about 2900.

I was thinking last night that I'm going to drop to 4,000 per day and eat incredibly clean. That would be a clean slow bulk and I think some of the fat would shape up and I would add lean mass.

yeah?

Cirino83
10-16-2007, 01:38 PM
you think I added a lot of fat? that is good to know. It is hard for me to tell on myself.

My maint. is about 2900.

I was thinking last night that I'm going to drop to 4,000 per day and eat incredibly clean. That would be a clean slow bulk and I think some of the fat would shape up and I would add lean mass.

yeah?

If you decided that you want to continue to bulk (which I personally think a cut should be in line first) then eating at 1100 over isn't going to help anything but continued access gaining. Drop the cals to about 3200 or so and see how that goes for a few weeks. Adjust from there.

HahnB
10-16-2007, 02:54 PM
Start doing HIIT 3 times a week along with your current routine, I would say a cut is in order.

Ramstein85
10-17-2007, 04:06 PM
Cut but keep your lifts the same and actually try and go up in weights you lift. Make sure you get your daily in take of protein 180grams +. Things like cottage cheese, pure whey protein and chicken/fish are a must have in your daily diet when you are on a cut. High protein lower cals.

Bako Lifter
10-17-2007, 04:16 PM
I was thinking last night that I'm going to drop to 4,000 per day and eat incredibly clean. That would be a clean slow bulk and I think some of the fat would shape up and I would add lean mass.
yeah?

I don't think you understand the concepts of bulking...

You can eat 4,000 calories of maple syrup, brownies, and french fries... You will gain the same amount of weight eating 4,000 calories of broccoli and skinless boiled chicken.

It doesn't matter what you eat, just how much you eat. 4,000 calories is 4,000 calories.

johny12345
10-17-2007, 04:58 PM
yeah...your right I don't understand......

If I eat 4k cals of mcdonalds for 3 months, vs 4k cals of "healthy foods,"

I would have the same body composition? If this is true why does everyone here eat clean on their bulks?

thanks

Bako Lifter
10-17-2007, 05:20 PM
Health reasons... and by health I don't mean physique.

johny12345
10-17-2007, 05:21 PM
ok, thanks for pointing that out bako. That will change my way of thinking.


you guys have convinced me to cut.....I'm excited to lose lots of fat. I have been reading cutting threads for the past hour and a half. Here are the questions I have....

1)I'm going to start at 2650 cals. This is about 10% below. I will continue doing bgb. Also, I will continue to take my creatine, efa's, and nitrix (got for free) This okay?
2) What should my macro %'s look like?
3) How long is a typical cut? till I get down to 180?
4) Exactly how much cardio should I be doing?
5) Is it okay to lift right before or right after I do cardio on my cut?
6) What if I get hungry, but I can't eat any more because I've had enough/too much....is it okay to go hungry?


Thank you soooo much. I'm going to make a lot of progress.....I swear to god.

HahnB
10-18-2007, 03:03 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with that. If you eat 4000 calories of maple syrup and french fries, I'm sorry, you aren't going to be building much muscle, even with a solid routine. This is going to result in a lot of fat gain. You simple aren't supplying your body with enough protein to build muscle at any reasonable ratio to fat. The net weight gain may be the same, but the results are going to be MUCH different.

KingWilder
10-18-2007, 07:28 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with that. If you eat 4000 calories of maple syrup and french fries, I'm sorry, you aren't going to be building much muscle, even with a solid routine. This is going to result in a lot of fat gain. You simple aren't supplying your body with enough protein to build muscle at any reasonable ratio to fat. The net weight gain may be the same, but the results are going to be MUCH different.

Yeah, I've gotta agree with Hahn...maybe Bako just made a bad analogy, but eating 4000 calories of chicken and broccoli would not be the same as maple syrup and fries...for your physique or health

Cards
10-18-2007, 09:05 AM
I think bako's trying to get at is that 4000 calories is 4000 calories. Assuming you're meeting your macros with "junk food", protein, carbs, fat, the 4000 calories, regardless where they came from are still 4000 calories. Last I checked your body couldn't distinguish good calories from bad?

matanyo
10-18-2007, 09:44 AM
having a diet of junk food limited to 4000 calories when you NEED to cut is rediculos. not only is it bad for you when your bulking, its bad for you at any time. bako made a terrible analogy or whatever he made there. you cant eat just anything. always eat clean. the improvments will be amazing if you have a good diet. and you wont feel like crap either. plus your gonna be hungry all the time considering one meal of mcdonalds or junk food has like 8000000 calories. and youll be over your limit in 2 meals. but anyway

i dont think you sohuld be taking creatine beacuse it tends to be high in sugars and you dont need that to much in your cutting stage which youve decided to do right?

johny12345
10-18-2007, 11:03 AM
having a diet of junk food limited to 4000 calories when you NEED to cut is rediculos. not only is it bad for you when your bulking, its bad for you at any time. bako made a terrible analogy or whatever he made there. you cant eat just anything. always eat clean. the improvments will be amazing if you have a good diet. and you wont feel like crap either. plus your gonna be hungry all the time considering one meal of mcdonalds or junk food has like 8000000 calories. and youll be over your limit in 2 meals. but anyway

i dont think you sohuld be taking creatine beacuse it tends to be high in sugars and you dont need that to much in your cutting stage which youve decided to do right?

yeah...thats what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up.

Can anyone answer some of my questions?^

HahnB
10-18-2007, 11:52 AM
I think bako's trying to get at is that 4000 calories is 4000 calories. Assuming you're meeting your macros with "junk food", protein, carbs, fat, the 4000 calories, regardless where they came from are still 4000 calories. Last I checked your body couldn't distinguish good calories from bad?

You can make a better argument with this kind of logic, but I'm still not convinced, mainly because if your diet consists largely of "junk" food, you're not going to be meeting any macros that will suit an athlete. How much junk food can you really eat in one day and still have respectable macros? Not much. The argument may be sound in it's theory, but I don't see it being very relevant. If you down 2k calories of pure junk food and your target goal is 3500 calories, good luck meeting your macros.

curqleez
10-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Your protien sources, fish-chicken-protien shakes- egg whites- lean red meat-
Starchy carb sources, brown rice- sweet potatoes- oatmill-grits-yams-
Fibrous carbs, most veggies.
Fat sources, olive oil, almonds, peanut butter
First thing to eliminate. All sugar and processed foods.
Have protien and starchy carb for breakfast and post workout.
Other meals have a protien and fat and or fibrous carbs.
Cut all carbs by 6pm
Last meal before bed have protien-fat meal no carbs
Eat about 5 times a day.
Eat on a schedule
Do cardio about 4-5 times a week atleast 30 min each session.
Don't go over 150 carbs a day

Thats it in a verry small nut shell

McIrish
10-21-2007, 05:35 PM
I don't think you understand the concepts of bulking...

You can eat 4,000 calories of maple syrup, brownies, and french fries... You will gain the same amount of weight eating 4,000 calories of broccoli and skinless boiled chicken.

It doesn't matter what you eat, just how much you eat. 4,000 calories is 4,000 calories.

Yes, you will put on the same amount of weight (because weight gained is a simple physics equation), but to distill the bodily system and body composition into a simple physics equation is reeee-diculous.

Honestly, it just really gets me on here when everyone says "ohhhh, a cal is a cal is a cal is a cal". The human body is a FAR too complex system for that to be accurate. Hormones, anyone?

I mean, if your argument were accurate, you could slam down 1 ginormous protein shake at breakfast with 200 g's of protein and then just have an intravenous sugar drip throughout the rest of the day and you would come out with a Ronnie Coleman physique. Does that seem reasonable?

Kiwirower
10-24-2007, 11:17 AM
I think bako's trying to get at is that 4000 calories is 4000 calories. Assuming you're meeting your macros with "junk food", protein, carbs, fat, the 4000 calories, regardless where they came from are still 4000 calories. Last I checked your body couldn't distinguish good calories from bad?

I think the key element of this is "assuming you're meeting your macros". If you think you're going to get the right ratio of protein/carbs/fat and the right types of carbs and fat from a junk food diet, then you and I must be using different definitions of "junk food".

You can certainly eat plenty of calories by eating fries and deep-fried Mars bars, but the outcome your body will generate in terms of muscle and fat gain is going to be considerably different to the outcome you will achieve with a diet giving the same calories from lean meat, chicken, fish, broccoli and brown rice.

Kiwirower
10-24-2007, 11:31 AM
3) How long is a typical cut? till I get down to 180?
4) Exactly how much cardio should I be doing?
5) Is it okay to lift right before or right after I do cardio on my cut?
6) What if I get hungry, but I can't eat any more because I've had enough/too much....is it okay to go hungry?



3) Until you reach your weight (or better, bodyfat) goal
4) Start out with a two steady-state cardio sessions and two HIIT sessions per week and see how that goes
5) Better to do cardio after weights
6) Try to stick to the diet - perhaps reschedule the timing or number of meals you divide it into to better manage hunger

WBBIRL
10-24-2007, 03:57 PM
Calories are not Calories, and your body can distinguish.

So by the logic that a calorie is a calorie, eating a 20-40-40 P/F/C macro split the end results would be the same as a 45-30-25 P/F/C?

I highly think not. Each macro nutrient has very different effects on the body and you cannot dispute that no matter how much you want to.

@ the OP

How much have you gained? It seems like 80% of whatever that number is was fat though. Your bulking WAY too fast. At best the unassisted lifter can gain about a pound of muscle every other week. 1LB = roughly 3500 cals so take 7000/14 and you find you only need to eat 500 calories over at most to fully support maximal muscular hypertrophy. Perhaps a wee bit more to compensate for the lifestyle change (not necessary I think in your case).

But if your maintance is 2900 then you should bulk on about 3500 or so. Take it from me, a man who's cut from nearly 320 down to 260 and still fighting to lose more, you would much rather gain slower and cleaner then to swell up like a house and have to cut 30+ pounds.

A cut is in order though. Eat 80 of your maintance calories and keep proteins over 200g per day. Do HIIT 3x a week and maybe a 40 min session of steady state cardio. Hit them weights hard and heavy. Things will shape back up. You can even gain muscle on a cut.

MMEI
10-24-2007, 09:29 PM
Do you have loose skin? I'm curious as to why your nipples and other parts aren't hugging on to the muscle you gained.