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View Full Version : Losing the bar over my face



LiftingKid
10-20-2007, 10:23 AM
So, I've been benching in a size 42 F6 since last year when i weighed 165 (it was loose then). Now, I'm weighing 190lbs and the shirt is really tight. I can get anything above 300 to touch but then as I press the bar it goes right over my face. What can I do form wise to stop this from happening?

I have the IPA nationals coming up in 4 weeks and of course my gear is giving me issues :mad:

zen
10-20-2007, 11:55 AM
you pullin your elbows in?

LiftingKid
10-20-2007, 11:56 AM
Elbows are tucked on the way down.

Stumprrp
10-20-2007, 12:04 PM
you put on a ton of weight man...

not sure how to help, seems a shirt issue though more then form

LiftingKid
10-20-2007, 12:19 PM
I'm starting to think that the shirt is doing it too stump. I probably won't have issues with the size 44.

Bako Lifter
10-20-2007, 12:52 PM
190? Wow.

waynedang
10-20-2007, 01:17 PM
Its not the shirt it is you. How hard are you pushing out of the hole? Are you ending in a skull crusher? This will happen when you push really hard at the start of the lift. The problem is you cant get your elbows out and under the the bar fast enough. Learn to start a little slower and end fast. The shirt should get you out of the hole fine you just need to control the bar and chase it to the top. We try to teach it as a % of pushing (easier to explain in person) read it from bottom up.


100%........./ finish lock out
80%........./
50%......./
30%...../
20%.../
10%./
touch start


Not sure if it helps or not. If you have any questions just ask and I will try to explain it better.

Stumprrp
10-20-2007, 01:21 PM
my question to you wayne, you must not advise the use of speed work then, because that pretty much goes against the whole concept. just wondering.

waynedang
10-20-2007, 01:34 PM
my question to you wayne, you must not advise the use of speed work then, because that pretty much goes against the whole concept. just wondering.

Speed work is fine and I do some speed work but with my shirted bar path it does not work for me to press fast right out of the hole. My bar path kinda looks like this / (or the goofy diagram I made) I try to touch low and finish over my face. If I try to do it fast I loose the groove almost every time. I just cant get my elbows out fast enough and that is why you loose it about 3/4 of the way up.

Stumprrp
10-20-2007, 01:59 PM
i see, i guess its different for everyone.

Chris Rodgers
10-20-2007, 04:19 PM
When I was experimenting this week with a new bar path, I was able to touch easier and did not lose any reps back into the rack. I basically started down with my elbows more out(I used to tuck right off the bat). Once I started to get closer down I then tucked in(as the bar went towards my belly). When I transitioned back I didn't have any problems with flaring and catching the bar because it was the same way I did it on the way down. I used to have a real big problem with throwing the weight back into a skull crusher and not getting my elbows underneath. I think this really helped me a lot. Of course, I only used it one session, but I hit 3 triples this way including a big PR on the last one. Take it for what it's worth.

Darracq
10-20-2007, 04:30 PM
Speed work is fine and I do some speed work but with my shirted bar path it does not work for me to press fast right out of the hole. My bar path kinda looks like this / (or the goofy diagram I made) I try to touch low and finish over my face. If I try to do it fast I loose the groove almost every time. I just cant get my elbows out fast enough and that is why you loose it about 3/4 of the way up.

thats what i am thinking, I am pretty slow off my chest so i can flare my elbows and lock out no problem, if you dont keep you elbows under the bar by flairing them out you will dumb it on your face.

RhodeHouse
10-20-2007, 05:14 PM
Its not the shirt it is you. How hard are you pushing out of the hole? Are you ending in a skull crusher? This will happen when you push really hard at the start of the lift. The problem is you cant get your elbows out and under the the bar fast enough. Learn to start a little slower and end fast. The shirt should get you out of the hole fine you just need to control the bar and chase it to the top. We try to teach it as a % of pushing (easier to explain in person) read it from bottom up.


100%........./ finish lock out
80%........./
50%......./
30%...../
20%.../
10%./
touch start


Not sure if it helps or not. If you have any questions just ask and I will try to explain it better.

You really need to push as hard as you can out of the hole. Sorry, but not pushing as hard as you can is the worst advice I've ever heard. Your board work/raw work needs to be in the EXACT same groove as your shirt. I say exact, and mean exact. I will bet my right nut, that your raw work and board work touch very high.

If you live in CT, I'm not sure why you're not coming to Southside to train on Friday nights.

Ryano
10-20-2007, 05:41 PM
I agree with Waynedang on this one. If you push 100% out of the hole, you probably won't be able to transition your elbows out to support the weight. Most of the time the result will be a "skull crusher" or you will push the weight straight up & away from the support of the shirt. Let the shirt do the bottom work so all you have to do is lock the weight out. Let the weight drift back toward your face as you increase effort. This works for me. Just try it both ways and see what works for you.

RhodeHouse
10-20-2007, 05:46 PM
If you guys can't push 100% out of the hole, you should really get around someone that knows how to bench.

Ryano
10-20-2007, 05:54 PM
Sorry Rhodehouse. I guess the World Records I hold in WABDL, AWPC, & WPA don't count for much. I seem to remember Sabastian Burns teaching that method also, at the seminar I went to. It works for me. Lift the way you want and give your opinion as you please. Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one and most of them stink. It's just your opinion. It doesn't mean anyone else is "wrong".

RhodeHouse
10-20-2007, 06:55 PM
I train with Vinny Dizenzo, who is a Metal Militia disciple and trained with Burns and Crawford. It's like telling someone not to push hard out of the hole in the squat. WR or not, it doesn't make sense to not push hard.

I wonder if Kennelly used that technique on his 1036?

Board and raw work should mimik shirt technique.

chris mason
10-20-2007, 08:20 PM
It definitely makes sense to press with 100% effort off of the chest so that the lifter will have an easier lockout via the momentum generated. The limiting factor in shirted benching is the lockout, any help to that end can only be a good thing.

deeder
10-20-2007, 09:23 PM
Isn't drifting towards your face generally a result of weak(er) triceps? I have been taught that pressing in a straight line from where you touch is the most efficient form.

Sidior
10-20-2007, 09:25 PM
Isn't drifting towards your face generally a result of weak(er) triceps? I have been taught that pressing in a straight line from where you touch is the most efficient form.

Drifting is the MM form of benching. Straight bar path is a westside form of benching. Train in the way that works best for you.

drew
10-20-2007, 10:13 PM
Sebby, come to Southside and let us have a look.

LiftingKid
10-21-2007, 06:57 AM
If you live in CT, I'm not sure why you're not coming to Southside to train on Friday nights.

Rhodes and Drew- I'll see if my dad can drive me down to southside next Friday.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

vdizenzo
10-21-2007, 08:13 AM
When I trained with Crawford and Burns we never discussed not pushing 100% out of the hole. It just seems silly to me. I'd like to see that posted on some other forums and see the responses. Hey, but what do I know?

RhodeHouse
10-21-2007, 08:37 AM
Isn't drifting towards your face generally a result of weak(er) triceps? I have been taught that pressing in a straight line from where you touch is the most efficient form.

Set up the pins in a power rack with about 4-6" ROM

Here's the question for you. If your life depended on it. If someone was holding a gun to your mother's head, would you keep your elbows tucked and lockout the weight, ala Westside style, or would you flare them to lock it out? Go try it. You will prove my point.

Ryano
10-21-2007, 09:09 AM
When I trained with Crawford and Burns we never discussed not pushing 100% out of the hole. It just seems silly to me. I'd like to see that posted on some other forums and see the responses. Hey, but what do I know?

Burns is the one who told us about pulling the weight into the support of the shirt at the bottom. He specifically stated that you don't push 100% until you are at the top locking out the weight, therefore letting the shirt do the work at the bottom. I've never lifted with Crawford, but would love to go to one of his seminars.

waynedang
10-21-2007, 09:58 AM
When I first started in the blast shirts I had no real problems ( not much of a groove). When I went to denim and then the newer poly shirts sometimes I would end up in a skull crusher. I had a seminar with burns in 04 or 05 at my gym. This issue came up from a few people. His response was not to push 100% out of the hole. Keep it in the groove and steer it to lock out. I also went to a second seminar with burns a year or so later and the same thing came up and the same answer was given. Sorry Rhodes I thought SB knew what he was talking about! Guess I was wrong!

My goofy little graph is not 100% accurate. I am pushing as hard as I can probably 2-3" out of the hole. Since I started doing this I have lost zero lifts this way!! Maybe it is just me. I try to do raw speed work but all my ME stuff is slow. Trust me I wish I locked weight out faster.


Some of you guys take it way to personal if someone disagrees with you. Relax a little it's just freaking lifting. The net cracks me up guys go straight to name calling and name dropping! Atleast let a guy respond before you tell him hes a dumbass and knows nothing. I know I am a nobody in this sport my little 584 @ 223 is weak by most peoples standards. I don't claim to know it all and am always willing to learn from others.


I was wanting to see some vids of the Southside guys doing boards. I knew Vin trained MM for years and was now doing some westside stuff and I wondered how they do thier board work now. Like MM or WS ?

vdizenzo
10-21-2007, 10:06 AM
I'm not taking it personally. I just don't agree with it. Do whatever works for you.

RhodeHouse
10-21-2007, 11:54 AM
Dude, I don't care what you do. It just makes NO SENSE to me not to push 100% out of the hole. You can'r develope any lockout power if you can'r generate speed out of the hole. Put video up of your benching. There are a number of reasons you could be having trouble. You might not be keeping your body tight throughout the whole lift. That sudden flexing of your entire body out of the hole might cause the bar to drift. I suffered from the same thing for a while with the Rage. I just made sure to flair my elbows hard when I went thru the transition.

What shirt do you use now? I bet it's not good for your style. I found that out after 2 years of trying to learn a Rage X. Denim works for me and that's that.

Ryano
10-26-2007, 08:27 AM
There are a number of reasons you could be having trouble. .


If this is directed at WayneDang, what makes you think he is having trouble? He benches as much as you in a single ply shirt and weighs about 80 lbs less.

WillKuenzel
10-26-2007, 08:43 AM
Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic. You blast him in another thread for not listening to others who lift less but are belittling him here in this one because he doesn't lift as much but is trying to help? He's trained with some of the best benchers in the business. Maybe he's picked up a thing or two. *sarcasm*But then again, we shouldn't listen to anybody that doesn't lift more than us, because they don't know anything.*sarcasm*

Ryano
10-26-2007, 08:52 AM
HomeYield, I'm "blasting" him because he deserves it. Did you read his earlier post about WayneDang? I know he refuses to take advice from someone who doesn't lift as much as he does, but WayneDang outlifts him(by formula) easily.

RhodeHouse
10-26-2007, 10:17 AM
HomeYield, I'm "blasting" him because he deserves it. Did you read his earlier post about WayneDang? I know he refuses to take advice from someone who doesn't lift as much as he does, but WayneDang outlifts him(by formula) easily.

By formula? Are you kidding me? By formula? I'm glad he can bench a lot. i am. But, if I lift more weight than he does, I bench more, period. Formula? That's what you give to babies.

My offer to lift with me stands as in the DL post. You wanna run your mouth about me. Let's lift together. Take your baby formula and stick it where the sun don't shine. Whoever lifts more, wins. That's how the Vikings used to do it.

BTW: if you're not sure, this is directed at you

Ryano
10-26-2007, 10:27 AM
OK fatty. I'll be @ ;
WABDL Worlds, CA- Nov '07
UPA Iowa, Dubuque IA- Jan '08
APF Master's Natl-Baton Rouge, LA- May '08

Pick one!

RhodeHouse
10-26-2007, 10:30 AM
May sounds good to me. Don't know if I'm old enough, though. Will you be lifting in the Viagra Division? I think we'll be at the UPA meet, but Vincent will be lifting. Sounds good. I'll keep in touch, wrinkly

Ryano
10-26-2007, 10:38 AM
Give Bill Carpenter a call, maybe he'll have a UPA -Novice division you can enter. That way you won't have to travel to LA.

RhodeHouse
10-26-2007, 10:39 AM
Give Bill Carpenter a call, maybe he'll have a UPA -Novice division you can enter. That way you won't have to travel to LA.

:hello: I'm not a novice. But, I bet I could win that one and take home the trophy. That might be the plan.:evillaugh: :clap:

Keith
10-26-2007, 10:55 AM
:lurk:

Chubrock
10-26-2007, 01:25 PM
The Powerlifting Section has gotten 10x as good as it used to be.

Keith
10-26-2007, 02:34 PM
The Powerlifting Section has gotten 10x as good as it used to be.

Lol absolutely.

Ever since RhodeHouse joined, it's been a lot more informative and entertaining!

Chris Rodgers
10-26-2007, 03:14 PM
By formula? Are you kidding me? By formula? I'm glad he can bench a lot. i am. But, if I lift more weight than he does, I bench more, period. Formula? That's what you give to babies.





Rhodes- I just want your opinion on this. Not trying to stir anything up, but just want you to look at how weird what you actually are saying looks like when the numbers are written out. That total has been accomplished @198.


Which is a more impressive total?


2400@198
2405@SHW

RhodeHouse
10-28-2007, 04:24 PM
So? Do I really care? Answer - NO I could care less what you guys are saying, to be honest. I've never claimed to be a WPO lifter or even a top 100 lifter. Not once. But, I know what I'm talking about - hands down. My point will be proven soon enough, and I'll be the fat guy laughing.

Chris Rodgers
10-28-2007, 06:02 PM
Perhaps you are the one who's cramps are getting to her. Look into some Midol. :idea:


You should start your own powerlifting federation with no weight classes, formulas or divisions. Just every fat man for himself. That way, the highest total wins no matter what. After all, that is all you believe in. :windup:


Good luck with your meet Rhodes. And I truly mean that, because I respect all of my fellow powerlifters. Skinny, fat, man, woman, total beginner or the top Elite lifters. :bow:

RhodeHouse
10-28-2007, 10:31 PM
Perhaps you are the one who's cramps are getting to her. Look into some Midol. :idea:


You should start your own powerlifting federation with no weight classes, formulas or divisions. Just every fat man for himself. That way, the highest total wins no matter what. After all, that is all you believe in. :windup:


Good luck with your meet Rhodes. And I truly mean that, because I respect all of my fellow powerlifters. Skinny, fat, man, woman, total beginner or the top Elite lifters. :bow:

Not sure if your last part was truthful or some kind of a underhanded insult.

I have respect for lifters as well. I understand that everyone has their own roads to travel thru the sport. You have your beliefs and I have mine. That's cool.

It should be highest total. Who owns the highest total of all-time? Who owns the highest total by coefficient? We ALL know the answer to the first question. Who knows the answer to the second without looking it up?

The highest total wins. That's like winning a golf game with a handicap. You didn't really win. Some formula said you won, but you really didn't. Kinda like WSM or IFSA. No weight classes. Just a bunch of big, strong dudes lifting heavy things to see who's the best at it. Pudzianowski was 300lbs or so? Darren Sadler was about 265, Terry Hollands is about 400lbs. Shut up and lift weights. If you can't lift as much as the big guys, stop crying and gain some weight. If you don't wanna do that, just stop crying.

BTW, I don't like Midol.

deeder
10-28-2007, 11:08 PM
Not sure if your last part was truthful or some kind of a underhanded insult.

I have respect for lifters as well. I understand that everyone has their own roads to travel thru the sport. You have your beliefs and I have mine. That's cool.

It should be highest total. Who owns the highest total of all-time? Who owns the highest total by coefficient? We ALL know the answer to the first question. Who knows the answer to the second without looking it up?

The highest total wins. That's like winning a golf game with a handicap. You didn't really win. Some formula said you won, but you really didn't. Kinda like WSM or IFSA. No weight classes. Just a bunch of big, strong dudes lifting heavy things to see who's the best at it. Pudzianowski was 300lbs or so? Darren Sadler was about 265, Terry Hollands is about 400lbs. Shut up and lift weights. If you can't lift as much as the big guys, stop crying and gain some weight. If you don't wanna do that, just stop crying.

BTW, I don't like Midol.

Rhodes, you're close-minded, and I like that about you, but not everyone wants to be a SHW. Everyone strives for the biggest total they can get, some people just want the additional challenge of doing it in a limited weight class! You give out great advice but it gets lost in all the arguing about who's bigger than who.

I seriously think everyone here should stop worrying about who's the biggest baddest mofo on the forum...

:soapbox:

Paul Stagg
10-29-2007, 07:42 AM
The baddest mofo on the internet is the one with the ban and delete buttons.

Chris Rodgers
10-29-2007, 03:34 PM
Rhodes- I seriously do wish you well at the meet. Hell, if I'm there on Sunday I'll be cheering for you when you are on the platform. I was never crying about anything. I just wanted you to see it from a different viewpoint. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it 100%.

RhodeHouse
10-29-2007, 08:26 PM
Rhodes- I seriously do wish you well at the meet. Hell, if I'm there on Sunday I'll be cheering for you when you are on the platform. I was never crying about anything. I just wanted you to see it from a different viewpoint. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it 100%.

Dude, I see other POV's. I just like mine better. What are you shooting for on Saturday? 3 weeks. Get your sleep, eat well, and keep your mind clear. All the work you've put in will pay off. SFW!

vdizenzo
10-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Dude, I see other POV's. I just like mine better. What are you shooting for on Saturday? 3 weeks. Get your sleep, eat well, and keep your mind clear. All the work you've put in will pay off. SFW!

I'm tearing up. Lay off the clomid girls.

C.Pop
10-31-2007, 05:19 AM
Dumping the bar over your face, for me, is almost always because I either:

1) Didn't flare fast enough

2) Let the bar get in front of me to touch

I always press with everything I have out of the hole.

minotaur70
10-31-2007, 05:31 AM
Dumping the bar over your face, for me, is almost always because I either:

1) Didn't flare fast enough

2) Let the bar get in front of me to touch

I always press with everything I have out of the hole.

totally agree- I lift in either a F6 or a katana and in my experience its either one of the two above. If you are into pressing towards your eyes, don't let the bar drift so that your wrists get away from your elbows (ie losing the bar towards the face). I can understand being patient and slowing things down when touching in a tight shirt, but I'd always fire off the chest with everything. Just my humble opinion.