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kevind345
10-21-2007, 03:49 PM
Okay after much reading and research on this forum I have decided to start a CLEAN slow bulk. There are two reasons for this, I want to gain the least amount of fat possible during this bulk, and also avoid stretch marks(important)

So im wondering if anyone has any techniques or suggestions for me? Such as how slow do I need to gain in order to avoid stretch marks? 1-2lbs a month or what? I know i could dirty bulk no problem but then when it came time to cut it would probably never happen...so I must clean bulk

My Stats:
5'9 158 lbs 12-14% Body fat

Goals:
175-180lbs under 9%BF NO STRETCH MARKS!

--with that being said i guess i need to put on about 20 lbs of muscle...if it takes a whole year thats no problem, so long as i avoid stretch marks.

Havent lifted in awhile but when i last stopped...
Bench Max - 150lbs
Squat Max - 240ish lbs
Deadlift - never really did this one....will deff incorporate this one in my new routine

So any suggestions or tips for my goal....such as Routine? Diet? i was thinking of following this type of diet http://forums.bulknutrition.com/topic5695.html ..and rate at which i should add weight?

vdizenzo
10-21-2007, 05:27 PM
I can't wait until Rhodes reads this one. Best of luck.

RhodeHouse
10-21-2007, 07:40 PM
Good call Vincent!

So, you want to gain 20lbs of muscle and lose bodyfat? It doesn't work that ay, no matter what anyone or any magazine says. It is impossible to gain muscle without gaining fat. Even with some pharmeceutical help.

Stretch marks are a sign of progress. They should be admired and bragged about. I've even named a few of mine. The sad reality is, you're probably gonna get stretch marks, no matter what you do. Now, a whole bunch of people are gonna come on here and tell you to rub yourself with Vitamin E, Cocoa Butter, Crisco, and whatever other miracle cure there is out there. You're gonna get them or not.

There are also gonna be a whole bunch of people telling you about maintanence calories and blah, blah, blah. Just start eating and don't stop until you reach your goal. Or, you can make it hard for yourself and calculate the position of the moon when you eat your protein, use your compass when cutting up your chicken breats...

Just eat clean. If you think it's bad for you, don't eat it. Keep your cardio to a minimum. 2-3x per week, but very hard. Hit the weights 4x per week. i would recommend 2 days Upper and 2 days Lower. It's the easiest and most efficient way to gain weight and build muscle.

WORLD
10-21-2007, 08:08 PM
Good call Vincent!

So, you want to gain 20lbs of muscle and lose bodyfat? It doesn't work that ay, no matter what anyone or any magazine says. It is impossible to gain muscle without gaining fat. Even with some pharmeceutical help.



Rhode I don't think he said he wants to lose bodyfat while building muscle. He wants to minimize fat gains while bulking.

Kevin it's up to you and how much time your willing to put into your diet. If you want to track your calories and believe you can keep it up and do it right, then by all means go for it, it will work. Rhode's oversimplifying it for you by telling you to simply eat, and that works too. Heck, that's what I do, and my bodyfat it always minimal. I suppose the more experience you have, the better idea you have of how much food you actually need to eat.

And why are you so concerned about stretch marks. I remember getting them when I started, but they went away eventually. Plus, it proves your growing.

HahnB
10-21-2007, 10:26 PM
Good call Vincent!

So, you want to gain 20lbs of muscle and lose bodyfat? It doesn't work that ay, no matter what anyone or any magazine says. It is impossible to gain muscle without gaining fat. Even with some pharmeceutical help.

Stretch marks are a sign of progress. They should be admired and bragged about. I've even named a few of mine. The sad reality is, you're probably gonna get stretch marks, no matter what you do. Now, a whole bunch of people are gonna come on here and tell you to rub yourself with Vitamin E, Cocoa Butter, Crisco, and whatever other miracle cure there is out there. You're gonna get them or not.

There are also gonna be a whole bunch of people telling you about maintanence calories and blah, blah, blah. Just start eating and don't stop until you reach your goal. Or, you can make it hard for yourself and calculate the position of the moon when you eat your protein, use your compass when cutting up your chicken breats...

Just eat clean. If you think it's bad for you, don't eat it. Keep your cardio to a minimum. 2-3x per week, but very hard. Hit the weights 4x per week. i would recommend 2 days Upper and 2 days Lower. It's the easiest and most efficient way to gain weight and build muscle.

What I think you fail to understand time and time again is that the average person that hasn't lived this lifestyle before has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how many calories are in most foods. Therefore, if you had them eat X amount of food in one day, they wouldn't have the slightest idea whether it was 1500 calories or 3000 calories. This is basically a sure fire way to fail when it comes to diet, but whatever floats your boat.

Most people I know that want to start gaining weight would have no chance in hell of eating the right amount of food without starting out counting calories so they get a good idea of exactly how much food is 3k, 4k, or whatever ballpark they want to be in.

RhodeHouse
10-21-2007, 11:27 PM
What I think you fail to understand time and time again is that the average person that hasn't lived this lifestyle before has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how many calories are in most foods. Therefore, if you had them eat X amount of food in one day, they wouldn't have the slightest idea whether it was 1500 calories or 3000 calories. This is basically a sure fire way to fail when it comes to diet, but whatever floats your boat.

Most people I know that want to start gaining weight would have no chance in hell of eating the right amount of food without starting out counting calories so they get a good idea of exactly how much food is 3k, 4k, or whatever ballpark they want to be in.

YOU AGAIN! What you fail to understand is that I was the "average" kid who was able to gain weight without "living the lifestyle". Never touched a weight before I got to college to play football. To this day, I have never counted a calorie.

The people you know aren't very smart then. Gaining weight is easy when you're small.

The simple rule is, Don't ever get hungry. I know that's not in the science books, but it absolutely works. BTW: You're definately not in my cult.

Paul Stagg
10-22-2007, 06:02 AM
One can not 'bulk' and drop bodyfat at the same time unless one is a newbie.

The OP's goal is one that is long term.

If you want to gain muscle you have to eat a lot, and you have to add weight to the bar. I wouldn't worry about stretch marks if your goal is to weigh 180 pounds.

Both Rhoades and Hahn have points... most people severly underestimate how much they eat when they are trying to 'bulk' (and overestimate how much they eat when they 'cut'), so it wouldn't hurt to figure out where you are on calorie intake. It doesn't have to be spot on, though, just a good enough picture to know roughly how much more stuff you have to eat to get bigger.

But 'don't get hungry' is really good advice if you want to gain 20 pounds.

HahnB
10-22-2007, 09:55 AM
One can not 'bulk' and drop bodyfat at the same time unless one is a newbie.

The OP's goal is one that is long term.

If you want to gain muscle you have to eat a lot, and you have to add weight to the bar. I wouldn't worry about stretch marks if your goal is to weigh 180 pounds.

Both Rhoades and Hahn have points... most people severly underestimate how much they eat when they are trying to 'bulk' (and overestimate how much they eat when they 'cut'), so it wouldn't hurt to figure out where you are on calorie intake. It doesn't have to be spot on, though, just a good enough picture to know roughly how much more stuff you have to eat to get bigger.

But 'don't get hungry' is really good advice if you want to gain 20 pounds.

Pretty much what I was getting at. I don't count calories anymore, mainly because I eat the same foods for the foundation of my diet so I know where I'm at most of the time.

What we all see here everyday is guys that come in and say they can't gain weight even though they eat "so much" or "a lot". This is where I see it being beneficial for those people to start out by counting calories-just so they can see how much they're really eating. You don't have to do it for every meal for the rest of your life, but at certain times it can really help.

ArmandSV
10-22-2007, 10:17 AM
as someone who is on a bulk, the best advice I can give is eat everything!

I cut for a few months at ~2000 cals a day and got to 12-14% BF
now while bullking I was eathing 3500+ cals a day and put on weight (muscle and fat)

then I felt I was putting on to much fat and went to 2500 cal a day and lost weight
I was pissed off! so my advice is eat huge but healthy, its only fat, but it comes with muscle!

and then when you cut later, it will be easy with all the NEW muscle you have, burning extra cals.

and I'm ordering it this week, the new maximus stack looks sweet, lots of good cals and protein, in drinking form, I'm so sick of chewing lately, its not even funny

and good luck on the bulk, adding plates to your lifts, makes it easier to overlook the fat you gain!

kevind345
10-22-2007, 04:02 PM
Thanks all

I understand its simple ....eat a lot and lift, ive known that since i was 7, what i was mainly concerned about was not gaining muscle and loosing fat or gaining no fat, i know neither are possible. I simply was thinking id try to minimize my fat gain while bulking so when i reach my goal i have less work to do.

I'm pretty conscious of calories and what not trust me thats not the issue i could eat 4 meals a day 1000 cal each no problem. Also i know how to read lables..... My MAIN concern was gaining info about how to start a clean and healthy bulk slow enough that will give me the best chance to avoid stretch marks. Why you ask, to me they are not progress reports, you guys say that to make urself feel better....bottom line who the hell wants stretch marks??? if you answered "Me" then ur a moron...there is clearly no point in risking stretch marks if i dont have them anywhere on my body now.......because they look BAD......im just weighing the pros and cons here is all.....i want to get bigger and stronger and have the physique of a smaller running back or dback...like 185ish ....strong and still fast

BY they way anyone know how running backs...or just most fball players get so jacked? i mean they must do a lot of cardio....do they eat like cows?

So what i was looking for was
A: is it possible from your experiences to gain slow enough to avoid these marks?

B: If yes....then how?

--I have a friend who was 150ish 2 years ago and hes pretty dedicated eats right and hes about 180 now and hes pretty much just maintaining now...no stretch marks....is he just lucky?? idno thats what im trying to find out...thank you for the responses tho.

Paul Stagg
10-22-2007, 04:36 PM
A: yes
B: you aren't trying to get big enough fast enough to worry about it.

Running backs get jacked by lifting weights, eating right, and using steroids, just like anyone else.

RhodeHouse
10-22-2007, 08:25 PM
Paul - great answer!

drew
10-23-2007, 06:11 AM
When I first started training with Rhodes about a year ago he told me to gain weight. I was 197. My weight was up to 228 (I've dropped a little to fit into my shirt) a few weeks ago. (That's 31 lbs in a year kids) I never counted a calorie. I just ate a lot. Sure, I gained some fat, but I gained a lot of muscle too. I think people just want to make it more difficult than it is for whatever reason.

kevind345
10-23-2007, 12:56 PM
A: yes
B: you aren't trying to get big enough fast enough to worry about it.

Running backs get jacked by lifting weights, eating right, and using steroids, just like anyone else.

So every running back uses steroids ur saying? there is no way to be as well balanced as they are natually.......meaning stregth size and speed?

RichMcGuire
10-23-2007, 01:43 PM
Good call Vincent!

So, you want to gain 20lbs of muscle and lose bodyfat? It doesn't work that ay, no matter what anyone or any magazine says. It is impossible to gain muscle without gaining fat. Even with some pharmeceutical help.

Stretch marks are a sign of progress. They should be admired and bragged about. I've even named a few of mine. The sad reality is, you're probably gonna get stretch marks, no matter what you do. Now, a whole bunch of people are gonna come on here and tell you to rub yourself with Vitamin E, Cocoa Butter, Crisco, and whatever other miracle cure there is out there. You're gonna get them or not.

There are also gonna be a whole bunch of people telling you about maintanence calories and blah, blah, blah. Just start eating and don't stop until you reach your goal. Or, you can make it hard for yourself and calculate the position of the moon when you eat your protein, use your compass when cutting up your chicken breats...

Just eat clean. If you think it's bad for you, don't eat it. Keep your cardio to a minimum. 2-3x per week, but very hard. Hit the weights 4x per week. i would recommend 2 days Upper and 2 days Lower. It's the easiest and most efficient way to gain weight and build muscle.

Actually, you CAN build muscle at the expense of body fat stores. This, of course, is accomplished by maintanence calories. Its really basic science.

But I agree you cant 'bulk' up to any real degree without gaining some bodyfat. Bulking to an extent is quicker and more effective for gaining muscle.

I think you bring up an excellent point. Dont make this stuff complicated. Its as simple as this formula" Calories in vs Calories out. Find a program and dont go crazy with it - it takes a lot of time to build a lot of muscle. But stretch marks can still come.

HahnB
10-23-2007, 02:06 PM
When I first started training with Rhodes about a year ago he told me to gain weight. I was 197. My weight was up to 228 (I've dropped a little to fit into my shirt) a few weeks ago. (That's 31 lbs in a year kids) I never counted a calorie. I just ate a lot. Sure, I gained some fat, but I gained a lot of muscle too. I think people just want to make it more difficult than it is for whatever reason.

You've been training for quite a while, my point was that someone just starting out that doesn't know anything about food will have no idea if they're eating enough unless they get a basic idea of how many calories they're eating.

KoolDrew
10-23-2007, 03:00 PM
When simple methods can be used to reach your goals, they should be used. I bulked from around 180 to 225 that I am now not keeping track of what I ate. Both my diet and training was very simple. I'd make myself shakes and I'd quickly put them into fitday to see how many calories it is, but that's about it. I didn't use it to keep track of stuff or determine maintenance calories or anything like that.

RhodeHouse
10-23-2007, 04:44 PM
You've been training for quite a while, my point was that someone just starting out that doesn't know anything about food will have no idea if they're eating enough unless they get a basic idea of how many calories they're eating.

If you reread what Drew wrote, he never counted a calorie. Go up and check the thread.

Done reading it? Just eat - I'm sorry science guys. For the average kid, it's THAT SIMPLE!

WOW! You guys should try to reinvent the wheel.

smalls
10-23-2007, 06:33 PM
Of course it's that simple.
If you just want to gain X amount of WEIGHT in certain amount of time. But if the original poster gains mostly muscle and minimizes fat gains by only eating slightly over maintenance instead of way over maintenance then the chances of looking like **** and/ or getting stretch marks is minimized. Which are his goals. I would try to give advice based on what the person asked, but that's just me.

If you want to gain lots of weight just eat until you gain weight and then eat some more. Very simple. I dont think anyone in this thread ever asked anything about gaining a ton of weight, especially in a short time period. Gaining weight is not that hard for most of us, liking the way you look while doing it is different. Which is what this poster wants to do.
Gain weight slowly and make progress in the gym, still pretty simple.

HahnB
10-23-2007, 06:59 PM
If you reread what Drew wrote, he never counted a calorie. Go up and check the thread.

Done reading it? Just eat - I'm sorry science guys. For the average kid, it's THAT SIMPLE!

WOW! You guys should try to reinvent the wheel.

Check in the bodybuilding & weightlifting forum. 99% of every newbie that comes in there *thinks* they're eating enough. Until they actually count up how many calories they're eating, they aren't going to realize that they aren't eating as much as they think. Even just doing this for a week, and then never again, can be a HUGE benefit to the beginner. I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with that unless they just want to start an argument for no reason.

WORLD
10-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Check in the bodybuilding & weightlifting forum. 99% of every newbie that comes in there *thinks* they're eating enough. Until they actually count up how many calories they're eating, they aren't going to realize that they aren't eating as much as they think. Even just doing this for a week, and then never again, can be a HUGE benefit to the beginner. I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with that unless they just want to start an argument for no reason.

I totally agree with this argument. Smalls said it well too. The OP is asking how much, and how he should be eating. Clean or dirty, it still boils down to calorie intake and counting calories just might help him get the best results, for his level of experience.

He cares if he gains too much bodyfat, so why is everyone telling him to EAT AND EAT MORE!? If we all told him to eat as much as he could, who knows what he considers a lot, or a little. Buddy might have a huge appetite and eat far too many calories on a daily basis, resulting in him looking like ****.

Do yourself a favour Kevin, and gain some experience with food. Eating can be done the smart way, which is not necessarily the hard way. When you get to the level which a lot of these guys are, you probably won't count a calorie again. Until then, you have to experiment and figure out just how much is enough.

RhodeHouse
10-23-2007, 10:23 PM
He's a kid. Kids don't just get stretch marks for no reason. No one on here could eat the way I do. M ost don't have the commitment to do it. If you followed my advice on eating 80%, you'd have no problem gaining some really good solid muscle with minimal fat. Is anyone giving advice on building muscle and keeping fat minimal over 200lbs, here? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but speak of what you know.

I started lifting 14 years ago at 185lbs or so. I went from 185 to 225 in 3 months. My bodyfat% went down. Why? I was conditioning for football. Over the next year, I went from 225 to around 250 and my BF% dropped more. Why? I was conditioning for football.

So, what can you figure out from this? I kept myself in graet shape as I gained the weight. No science. No calculators. Very minimal stretch marks. Most of it thanks to Mexican food and Coors Light (The Nectar of the Gods)

Keys to victory:
1. Never get hungry
2. Eat clean
3. Keep your fat ass in shape while gaining weight

I know what the OP posted. I know what his goals are. But, what do I know? I've been doing this longer than most of you have had hair on your nuts.

Slim Schaedle
10-23-2007, 10:48 PM
No one on here could eat the way I do. M ost don't have the commitment to do it.

Rhodes, I have to be honest. This statement is laughable at best.




Is anyone giving advice on building muscle and keeping fat minimal over 200lbs, here? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but speak of what you know.


I am. Smalls and Hahn are as well. I agree with their philosophy.

Until I kept track of **** and counted things I made many mistakes.

smalls
10-24-2007, 01:39 AM
He's a kid. Kids don't just get stretch marks for no reason. No one on here could eat the way I do. M ost don't have the commitment to do it. If you followed my advice on eating 80%, you'd have no problem gaining some really good solid muscle with minimal fat. Is anyone giving advice on building muscle and keeping fat minimal over 200lbs, here? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but speak of what you know.

I started lifting 14 years ago at 185lbs or so. I went from 185 to 225 in 3 months. My bodyfat% went down. Why? I was conditioning for football. Over the next year, I went from 225 to around 250 and my BF% dropped more. Why? I was conditioning for football.

So, what can you figure out from this? I kept myself in graet shape as I gained the weight. No science. No calculators. Very minimal stretch marks. Most of it thanks to Mexican food and Coors Light (The Nectar of the Gods)

Keys to victory:
1. Never get hungry
2. Eat clean
3. Keep your fat ass in shape while gaining weight

I know what the OP posted. I know what his goals are. But, what do I know? I've been doing this longer than most of you have had hair on your nuts.


Great, so you know how to get big and strong. We all know this, hell we read it every single day, nobody doubts it. Consider it marked and recorded in our little nerd notebooks. The thing is, that's not what he is asking.
I dont respond to posts about westside techniques or what suit to purchase. Because just as you stated, that's not what I do.

And to the orginal poster. Gaining weight slowly is your best bet. But at the end of the day stretch marks have a huge genetic component. I have never been over 18%BF but have also never been heavier than 251 and I still have tons of stretch marks, I have stretchmarks on my lats, delts, quads and hamstrings. And I got most of them the first time I bulked to 200, so some people are lucky and others . . . not so much. Depends alot on your bodies setpoint etc.

drew
10-24-2007, 06:13 AM
I think most of you are missing the boat here.

At 5'9" and only 158 lbs you should just be trying to gain weight. You should weigh over 200 lbs at least at this height. Just get there, then worry about body fat %. Guess what, if you're REALLY busting ass in the gym, and eating a lot, your bf% won't go up much. (And eating a lot means eating until you start gaining weight. If you think you're eating a ton but aren't gaining any weight, YOU'RE NOT EATING ENOUGH!)

Slim Schaedle
10-24-2007, 08:27 AM
Guess what, if you're REALLY busting ass in the gym, and eating a lot, your bf% won't go up much.

I disagree.

Before Christmas of 2000 I was killing myself in the gym. At that time I was somewhere in the 170-180lb range and eventually got up to a little over 200 by Christmas.

I was eating a ton (even though it was much less than what I eat now) and not counting things.

I was in the air force, took leave, and flew home from England. One of the first things my dad says to me in the airport (and he's not lean or muscular) is that I looked fat.

I go home and bought some sweaters since nothing fit. To this day I still swim in those things despite getting up to 225 recently.


My point is, that is the largest I have ever been in my life, despite not being the heaviest, but also carrying a dissproportionate amount of bodyfat gained from that bulk by doing much the same thing that you suggest.

I was even eating pretty clean.

RhodeHouse
10-24-2007, 10:04 AM
I think most of you are missing the boat here.

At 5'9" and only 158 lbs you should just be trying to gain weight. You should weigh over 200 lbs at least at this height. Just get there, then worry about body fat %. Guess what, if you're REALLY busting ass in the gym, and eating a lot, your bf% won't go up much. (And eating a lot means eating until you start gaining weight. If you think you're eating a ton but aren't gaining any weight, YOU'RE NOT EATING ENOUGH!)

Thank you Drew. You are a genius! It really is that simple. Really.

RhodeHouse
10-24-2007, 10:09 AM
Rhodes, I have to be honest. This statement is laughable at best.






I am. Smalls and Hahn are as well. I agree with their philosophy.

Until I kept track of **** and counted things I made many mistakes.

Laughable? Really? You have no clue what it takes to really gain weight when your body says, "no". Try going from 290 to 315. That takes work. Ask anyone who was jacked before they had to gain weight. Vincent Dizenzo went from 300 to 328 at 5' 8". I saw every ounce of that weight he put on. You have no idea what that's like. You guys talk about bulks like they're fun. Clearly, you haven't been big enough yet. Off-topic, I know, but my laughable statement isn't so laughable when you've been there. And, at 251, you ain't been there.

Stumprrp
10-24-2007, 10:24 AM
i am so absolutely sick of these bullsh1t arguments on this forum about gaining weight, do you all get off arguing? do you all have doctrines in nutrition, exercise science, and biology?

who ever started this thread because it seems you all scared him away, monitor your weight while eating a great abundance of healthy, protein filled foods, thats it, no calorie counting, no over obsession with every little move you make, just eat well, lift well, sleep well, and check the scale every week.

as for the strech marks, it will be hard to avoid while even gaining little weight.

smalls
10-24-2007, 10:32 AM
Laughable? Really? You have no clue what it takes to really gain weight when your body says, "no". Try going from 290 to 315. That takes work. Ask anyone who was jacked before they had to gain weight. Vincent Dizenzo went from 300 to 328 at 5' 8". I saw every ounce of that weight he put on. You have no idea what that's like. You guys talk about bulks like they're fun. Clearly, you haven't been big enough yet. Off-topic, I know, but my laughable statement isn't so laughable when you've been there. And, at 251, you ain't been there.

Rhodes, you seem to be addressing the wrong person, if your going to throw around insult like an offended preteen at least address the right person. I posted that I had weighed 251 up from 140. I've eaten 8400 cals a day for months straight without missing a single meal, am I credible to give advice on how to get big and fat yet. No? Didnt think so.

smalls
10-24-2007, 10:36 AM
i am so absolutely sick of these bullsh1t arguments on this forum about gaining weight, do you all get off arguing? do you all have doctrines in nutrition, exercise science, and biology?

who ever started this thread because it seems you all scared him away, monitor your weight while eating a great abundance of healthy, protein filled foods, thats it, no calorie counting, no over obsession with every little move you make, just eat well, lift well, sleep well, and check the scale every week.

as for the strech marks, it will be hard to avoid while even gaining little weight.

I got to agree. I even get sick of myself arguing. But when someone asks a specific question with geniune interest in an answer I will try to give it. That's what the original poster did. And yes some of us have degrees in exercise science and/ or biology. The doctorate is in the works. But we all know an education doesnt mean a thing if you can't apply your knowledge correctly.

And I completely agree with our last statement.

I just dont understand why everyone thinks counting cals is so hard. Of course it's not necassary, but difficult?

RhodeHouse
10-24-2007, 11:18 AM
God, I love irritating you smart guys. It's become a little hobby of mine. I don't read your stuff, because I don't care. Sorry. 140-250 is pretty good. Only 110lbs, though. Keep eating.:hello:

I like the preteen comment, too. That was good. I may use that, if that's ok.

HahnB
10-24-2007, 12:07 PM
I'm just clueless as to why anyone would not want to minimize fat gain, unless you don't care about body fat, which would represent about 1% of the people on this website.

Just eating whatever and not worrying about body fat until you reach X amount of weight is incredibly inefficient, and will just lead to much more work down the road trying to lose that extra fat because you were eating more than you body could process effectively.

You don't even have to count calories the entire time to do this, you could even go by the scale and just make sure you're not gaining too quickly which is probably a sign of excess fat gain.

If you want to use the scale and not count calories, that's fine-a lot of people do that. However, saying "don't worry about body fat until you're big" will never make any sense to me. You should always want to minimize fat gain.

ray34iyf
10-24-2007, 12:44 PM
:withstupi:

Absolutely. I also can't for the life of me understand some of what Rhodes and some others say. There is no be all, end all piece of advice. Establish what you want to do and work towards it. If you don't care about vanity and just want to get big and strong as soon as possible, go for it. Just realize that you'll probably end up looking at yourself in the mirror one day, see that you're a big tub of fat, and then waste months trying to diet down. You may end up even being in a worse position that you started.
If you want to get stronger, stay as lean as possible, and gain muscle mass, get a good routine that hits your muscles atleast twice a week(BGB is a great one) and track the amount of cals you're eating and adjust according to how your composition is changing. It's a hell of alot better staying in an anabolic state for an extended period of time rather than quitting your bulk 3 months in because you "ate the house down" or w/e.
To be honest, I don't even know what there is to argue about.

smalls
10-24-2007, 12:49 PM
God, I love irritating you smart guys. It's become a little hobby of mine. I don't read your stuff, because I don't care. Sorry. 140-250 is pretty good. Only 110lbs, though. Keep eating.:hello:

I like the preteen comment, too. That was good. I may use that, if that's ok.

You have permission to use any and all insults. I'm glad were all having fun. I'm eating as we type, so no worries there.

I understand where rhodes and a few others are coming from. To them there are much more important goals, and they are quite good at reaching them the way they do it. It's just that some peoples goals are different and should be addressed as such.

WORLD
10-24-2007, 02:13 PM
I understand where rhodes and a few others are coming from. To them there are much more important goals, and they are quite good at reaching them the way they do it. It's just that some peoples goals are different and should be addressed as such.

I Agree.

I'm pretty certain that this is a two sided argument and will never be settled. Some people obviously view bodybuilding differently than others, and take different approaches in reaching their goals. I always thought bodybuilding originated from the desire to build a good looking physique. Apparently now it's only about getting as big and heavy as you possibly can.

There are clearly two different routes to building muscle. Choose whatever suites you best.

Slim Schaedle
10-24-2007, 02:38 PM
Laughable? Really? You have no clue what it takes to really gain weight when your body says, "no". Try going from 290 to 315. That takes work. Ask anyone who was jacked before they had to gain weight. Vincent Dizenzo went from 300 to 328 at 5' 8". I saw every ounce of that weight he put on. You have no idea what that's like. You guys talk about bulks like they're fun. Clearly, you haven't been big enough yet. Off-topic, I know, but my laughable statement isn't so laughable when you've been there. And, at 251, you ain't been there.

Yeah, 251 aint me.

No, I do not find bulks fun. Much like smalls desrcibes in posts, I have had to suck down liquid/real food until I almost puke and weeks on end until I develope digestive problems.

Yes, I find it extremely laughable for you to claim that no one on here could eat the way you do. I am very certain many on here exceed your caloric intake, yet fail to see similar results. Obviously, that's indication of the difference each of our bodies' hold.

You also questioned other's commitment. I find that laughable as well.

Now, these two statements of yours that I offered my opinion on do not directly correlate to your philosophy of gaining weioght at whatever the cost, etc etc.

In other words, my comment was not critical of your training/diet philosophy.

See what I am getting at?


(****, I just ended my sentence with a preposition)

galileo
10-24-2007, 03:37 PM
as for the strech marks, it will be hard to avoid while even gaining little weight.

I went on a trek from 148 to 192 without a single stretch mark, even on the bicep/chest/delt tie-in where it seems many are prone. I have to feel like it is genetic issue and some are far more likely than others.

Stumprrp
10-24-2007, 03:38 PM
i bet i could keep up with rhodes, when i come to southside sometime we will have a eat off at wendies.

RhodeHouse
10-24-2007, 08:46 PM
:withstupi:

Absolutely. I also can't for the life of me understand some of what Rhodes and some others say. There is no be all, end all piece of advice. Establish what you want to do and work towards it. If you don't care about vanity and just want to get big and strong as soon as possible, go for it. Just realize that you'll probably end up looking at yourself in the mirror one day, see that you're a big tub of fat, and then waste months trying to diet down. You may end up even being in a worse position that you started. If you want to get stronger, stay as lean as possible, and gain muscle mass, get a good routine that hits your muscles atleast twice a week(BGB is a great one) and track the amount of cals you're eating and adjust according to how your composition is changing. It's a hell of alot better staying in an anabolic state for an extended period of time rather than quitting your bulk 3 months in because you "ate the house down" or w/e.
To be honest, I don't even know what there is to argue about.


This is where you don't get it. You're a little guy talking about getting stronger. HUH??????????????? Adding BF helps your strength. Really , it does. Ask any top level stregnth athlete and they'll tell you the same thing. Not your local douche bag at the gym, but a National or World level Strongman or Powerlifter. They'll all tell you the same thing. Gotta have some fat to be strong. Not a lot. But, you gotta have some fat.

If you gain fat while you're lifting, you're gonna build muscle as well. If you don't train, then yes, you'll get fat. If you cut the fat off after you get big, you will most certainly not be worse off than when you started.

RhodeHouse
10-24-2007, 08:48 PM
Yeah, 251 aint me.

No, I do not find bulks fun. Much like smalls desrcibes in posts, I have had to suck down liquid/real food until I almost puke and weeks on end until I develope digestive problems.

Yes, I find it extremely laughable for you to claim that no one on here could eat the way you do. I am very certain many on here exceed your caloric intake, yet fail to see similar results. Obviously, that's indication of the difference each of our bodies' hold.

You also questioned other's commitment. I find that laughable as well.

Now, these two statements of yours that I offered my opinion on do not directly correlate to your philosophy of gaining weioght at whatever the cost, etc etc.

In other words, my comment was not critical of your training/diet philosophy.

See what I am getting at?


(****, I just ended my sentence with a preposition)

I'm proud of you. :thumbup:

RichMcGuire
10-24-2007, 11:09 PM
Theres more than one way to gain muscle. You can try your best to minimize fat gain, or you can bulk/cut like Lee Priest ;)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/leepriestinterviewpics1dbig.jpg





http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/big/2005arnoldmtmen43.jpg

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
10-24-2007, 11:11 PM
I predict a massive myocardial infarction in his future.

RichMcGuire
10-24-2007, 11:13 PM
Yea he may go just a little too far with his off season :D

drew
10-25-2007, 06:27 AM
He looks better in the first picture.

RhodeHouse
10-25-2007, 06:34 AM
You're damn right Drew. He looks like a man in the first picture. Belly and love handles hanging over his pants. He even has the beginnings of some nice man-cans. Or is that gyno? Who cares? That's beautiful. Then, he looks like a soap-tosser in the other picture. So sad.

RichMcGuire
10-25-2007, 11:25 AM
You're damn right Drew. He looks like a man in the first picture. Belly and love handles hanging over his pants. He even has the beginnings of some nice man-cans. Or is that gyno? Who cares? That's beautiful. Then, he looks like a soap-tosser in the other picture. So sad.

I dont think he looks very good in the second picture either. He just looks weird.. almost too skinny. But he looks pretty good in his bulks before he gets carried away.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/leecha1.jpg


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/leecha4.jpg

RhodeHouse
10-25-2007, 12:24 PM
Jay Cutlet, I mean Cutler needs to buy some shirts that fit him. That's a huge pet-peeve of mine. Wear a damn shirt that fits. Everyone can tell it's too small and it just looks stupid. Buy a shirt that fits.

RhodeHouse
10-25-2007, 12:26 PM
http://www.ironasylumgym.com/imperium2006/mattrhodes

Now there's a beautiful man.

drew
10-25-2007, 12:52 PM
That's sexy. I need to go home and change now.

RichMcGuire
10-25-2007, 01:23 PM
Jay Cutlet, I mean Cutler needs to buy some shirts that fit him. That's a huge pet-peeve of mine. Wear a damn shirt that fits. Everyone can tell it's too small and it just looks stupid. Buy a shirt that fits.

Thats Lee Priest in those pics..

bigred1974
10-25-2007, 01:36 PM
I went from 4lbs9oz to 295lbs 6oz on a 33 year bulk. I put on bodyfat, but I put on muscle too:fart:

smalls
10-25-2007, 01:44 PM
Jay Cutlet, I mean Cutler needs to buy some shirts that fit him. That's a huge pet-peeve of mine. Wear a damn shirt that fits. Everyone can tell it's too small and it just looks stupid. Buy a shirt that fits.

I couldnt agree more. Gotta be my biggest pet peeve. If you need to wear something to make you look big, guess what, your not.

Chubrock
10-25-2007, 02:49 PM
Dammit guys, leave my tight t-shirts alone.

RhodeHouse
10-25-2007, 05:24 PM
I couldnt agree more. Gotta be my biggest pet peeve. If you need to wear something to make you look big, guess what, your not.

My bad on the Jay Cutler thing. They're all the same to me.

Smalls - we agree on something to the letter. Write the date down. Good times had by all.

Slim Schaedle
10-25-2007, 05:30 PM
My bad on the Jay Cutler thing. They're all the same to me.



I don't know......Ronnie deads more than you

:windup: