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brihead301
10-24-2007, 11:58 AM
Wait a minute before you say "EAT till you're stuffed, then eat some more...." I know that. That's what I do.

What I'm looking for is routine advice that you powerlifters use to keep getting better 1RM's.

As I'm sure some of you already know, I'm following the routine from "The new rules of lifting" book. I'm following one of the 4 programs he has outlined in the book called "The guy who considers skinny an insult". It basically has 3hypertrophy-specific programs and 3 strength-based routines alternate every few weeks (the order goes H-1, H-2, S-1, S-2, H-3, S-3). I'm on S-1 right now (strength 1). You can see how that routine is laid out in my journal:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=102982

These routines are working great for me as far as building size and strength. The "Hypertrophy" routines have been building strength and size, and the "strength" routines have been building strength and size.

I'm just looking for some other ideas from a powerlifting point of view. I was talking to this powerlifter from my gym and he said that he usually does this type of set reps for building strength:

Squat:

185 x 12
225 x 10
275 x 8
315 x 6
385 x 3
405 x 2
445 x 1

He didn't use those exact numbers, but that's the basic idea. What types of set/rep/weights do you guys use to build your 1RM's?

drew
10-24-2007, 12:27 PM
This is what my routine looks like:

Friday: Bench
#1: Work up to heavy single on 2, 3, or 4 board (I rotate each week). This is usually a max lift. Sometimes I will work up to a triple if I'm not feeling well. I start with the bar for a couple sets, then 135 for a set of 5, 185 for a set of 3, then singles all the way up. I'll add 20 or 50 lbs per set depending on what I'm doing and what kind of volume I want.

#2 Shirt work. This is rotated weekly, one set of triples, doubles or singles. This is mainly for shirt technique.

#3 High board lockout work or shoulder work. Pick a weight and do a few heavy sets. Usually something I can get 3-4 sets of 5 with.

#4 Lat work. This varies but I pick one or two lat movements and do 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps.

#5 Other stuff. Whatever I feel like. hammer curls, pullups, band pull aparts, or I just pack up and go home.

Monday: Squat
#1: I usually work up to about 60% of my max and do 5-8 sets of 2 off a box or without a box. I rotate by feel. I like to use the Safety Squat Bar but I will also use a straight bar. Every 3rd week I will work up to a heavy single after these sets.

#2 Some kind of deadlifts. Sometimes I pull sumo and work up to a max, or conventional and pull for a max, sometimes rack pulls, sometmes pulls against a band. I don't do any more than a single on deadlifts (except for the first 2 sets at 135 and 225) I don't do a max every week. Only when I feel like it.

#3 Hamstring work, usually Good mornings and/or GHR. Sometimes I will max on GMs after squatting (if I don't max on squatting) and I will still do GHR.

#4 Lower back and abs. Reverse hypers, whatever weight for whatever sets and reps I feel like, abs are done heavy and usually standing from a cable for up to 4 sets and 5-10 reps per set.

Tuesday: Supplemental
#1 Bench press for speed with 135-185 lbs. I go on feel here. 6-10 sets of 3 reps. Sometimes I'll work up to a raw max (that means no bench shirt) but only if I feel like I can recover from it by Friday.

#2 Whatever I'm lacking in. This can be extra work for triceps, lats, shoulders, lower back or hamstrings. I usually do some ab work as well. This is really whatever I feel lik eI need to be doing.

TommyBoy
10-24-2007, 12:27 PM
I suggest you read the articles here: http://www.westside-barbell.com/ and here: http://www.elitefts.com. That will give you some solid information on increasing the big 3.

Stumprrp
10-24-2007, 12:31 PM
i agree with reading up, i do my heavy sets just like drew does them, 2-5 reps on warmups and singles from there.

brihead301
10-24-2007, 01:21 PM
Thanks fellows. Drew and Stumprrp, that's pretty much what the powerlifter at my gym was saying that he did. I will definately read up on those links Tommyboy. Thanks a lot.

TommyBoy
10-24-2007, 01:26 PM
I will definately read up on those links Tommyboy. Thanks a lot.Anytime brother.

Stumprrp
10-24-2007, 03:55 PM
drew i have a question i like your setup but on the squat days, when do you switch to ME from speed work??

drew
10-25-2007, 06:18 AM
I do speed work every week. If I'm going to do ME, I'll do something like this:

10x135
5x225
6x2x275
1x315
1x365
1x405
1x455
and on up from there. If I'm going to do ME GMs, it's the same form but I just switch from squats to GMs. Deadlifts I usually do by feel. I'll pull a heavy or Max deadlift on the same day that I squat heavy (but not if I GM heavy) but not every time.

Stumprrp
10-25-2007, 10:30 AM
ok so you lift 3x a week, one day being ME bench, one being a DE/ME squat combo, and one being DE bench? or Aux bench?

RhodeHouse
10-25-2007, 12:20 PM
Steroids

drew
10-25-2007, 12:48 PM
Rob, that's correct. Tuesday is DE/Aux bench day. I used to squat 2x a week, but I couldn't handle the recovery. My knee kept getting injured and my hips were always hurting.

I heard steroids make your peepee shrink.

Stumprrp
10-25-2007, 01:03 PM
interesting drew, honestly ive had more success squatting and pulling more infrequently but i feel fat if i dont do it 2x a week lol

i will never take roids, not because of the side effect but im turtle shelled enough as it is...

haha

MasterCye
10-26-2007, 01:30 AM
So you've only been doing this program for a couple of weeks and you say you've noticed an increase in size and strength, but you want something different? Your not making much sense. Maybe you should continue what your doing, since it seems to be working, then when it stops working you can change to something else.

I remember reading an article a week or so ago about this sort of thing, I think it was on T-nation, about people jumping from program to program and never giving the one their on a chance to do anything. The author said to give a program at least 2 months (I think, could be wrong) to see if it works for you.

Just my 2 cents

brihead301
10-26-2007, 08:10 AM
So you've only been doing this program for a couple of weeks and you say you've noticed an increase in size and strength, but you want something different? Your not making much sense. Maybe you should continue what your doing, since it seems to be working, then when it stops working you can change to something else.

I remember reading an article a week or so ago about this sort of thing, I think it was on T-nation, about people jumping from program to program and never giving the one their on a chance to do anything. The author said to give a program at least 2 months (I think, could be wrong) to see if it works for you.

Just my 2 cents

Nah, I've been doing it for 6 months now, and it's been working great. I have only been posting my journal on this forum since I started the "Strength 1" portion of NROL. I've been lifting for about 6 years now, but this is the first time I've been doing it the "right" way (heavy compounds, good diet as opposed to mostly isolations and no diet), and the gains have been great.

It's a year long program, and I will stick it out until the year is over. After that I am going to design my own routine based on the information I learned from that book, several forums, and a bunch of websites. I've decided that I'm more interested in getting strength gains then the big ripped look. Therefore by getting some input from some powerlifters' perspectives will help me even further design my own routine after this program is finished.

MasterCye
10-28-2007, 04:55 AM
Cool, that sound a lot better than what I thought you were doing. I too am trying to it the right way w/ compounds after trying the classic BB way, off and on for 10 years(mostly off, am a lazy bastard). Been on Starting Strength for 3 weeks now and have noticed a real difference already.

Mike G
10-28-2007, 07:46 AM
Definitely read a lot from the sites Tommy posted. A ton of great info, maybe too much at times. I wouldn't suggest just coming up with your own thing, yet. Follow a template (westside is awesome) that gives some leeway with your exercises. That way, you have some freedom in your routine, but are following a basic idea until you really know what needs to be hit. Even then, you just adjust your exercises.

Drew has a nice setup, but that works for him after a long time of lifting and knowing what he responds to. If you think you know that after following NROL, that's different and then try to figure things out on your own as far as a program. I thought I knew after ten plus years and I was wrong. I would have been much better off following the basic Westside template than trying to alter it. My plan now is to follow a three day split that's on elitefts.

Just curious, the NROL has stages for hypertrophy and strength, right? With Westside, you get both at the same time, so you might really like it. I like the fact that you are going to finish your set routine, then go from there. Too many people change what's working.

brihead301
10-28-2007, 09:59 AM
Just curious, the NROL has stages for hypertrophy and strength, right? With Westside, you get both at the same time, so you might really like it. I like the fact that you are going to finish your set routine, then go from there. Too many people change what's working.

Ya, it's been working great for me so far, so I will definately give it the full year until I switch to something else, or maybe even stick with it for another year.

It does have programs that are titled "hypertrophy" and "strength", but his main idea he tries to get across in the book is that it's really not that complicated - you lift heavy weights and you get stronger and bigger. The routines he calls "hypertrophy" are really just preparation programs for the "strength" programs.

The hypertrophy ones have some 5x5 days and 6x3 days where you're supposed to lift very heavy, but they also have stuff like 3 x 15 days and 4 x 10 where you go a bit lighter. This is to give you a break from the heavier lifting days. I've had great strength increases from the hypertrophy routines, but they also helped to prepare me for where I'm at now - "strength 1", which is a hell of a lot tougher then any of the other ones I've done so far.

All the routines use the basic compound lifts, and you're supposed to use the heaviest weight you possibly can for the given rep range. Just doing that alone has been giving me both strength and size gains regardless of what title he gives to the routine.

I've been reading about this westside training a little bit, and I like the sounds of it. It sounds like it's more intense then what I'm doing now, but it also has many similarities. Maybe I'll use NROL as my preparation for something like westside after the year is over.

RhodeHouse
10-28-2007, 11:01 PM
Westside isn't that complicated. People make it out to be more than it really is.

Here's Westside:

Max Effort - HEAVY
Dynamic Effort - FAST
Repeated Effort - bodybuilding

That's Westside. Not too tough?

deeder
10-28-2007, 11:18 PM
Westside isn't that complicated. People make it out to be more than it really is.

Here's Westside:

Max Effort - HEAVY
Dynamic Effort - FAST
Repeated Effort - bodybuilding

That's Westside. Not too tough?

The basic template is ME/DE upper and lower right? When does RE come into play?

drew
10-29-2007, 06:29 AM
RE is the supplemental work you do after your first one or two movements.

brihead301
10-29-2007, 06:52 AM
Westside isn't that complicated. People make it out to be more than it really is.

Here's Westside:

Max Effort - HEAVY
Dynamic Effort - FAST
Repeated Effort - bodybuilding

That's Westside. Not too tough?

I got that much of it. When the time comes for me to switch my routine after this routine, I will design a routine based on those ideas.

drew
10-29-2007, 07:07 AM
bri, the best part about "Westside" is that there is no real program. The program is about finding what works for you, changing when it ceases to work, and improving weaknesses while building strengths. It's not static like most programs.