PDA

View Full Version : doing heavy lifting while sore from light stuff..



jdeity
11-23-2007, 06:21 PM
I've got a question I'm kind of surprised I dunno the answer to.



I've had to skip (well, switch to squat or do my next chest day earlier) a couple deadlift sessions (skipped two out of my first three, to be precise) due to muscle soreness.



The thing is, my lower back isn't sore from heavy lifting, it's sore from working.


I feel like if my lower/middle back is sore (muscular soreness, not joint/spine or anything) I shouldn't deadlift, but I'm swapping dl sessions for other stuff which I hate (both cuz dl's are my favorite, and because, well, missing a major lift day is ****ty). I just had a thought though - if I'm sore from, say, scrubbing a floor, pulling weeds, or raking, that'd be mostly typeI fibers that are sore, right? So, since dl is primarily/entirely typeII fibers, should I be dl'ing anyways?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I'm grasping at straws here lol, I wanna dl but my lower back is almost constantly sore from the varied work I do.

RhodeHouse
11-23-2007, 06:45 PM
If you're banged up, DL every 10 days instead of once per week. You don't have to train in the typical week. You're body mat need more time to heal because of the stresses from work/life.

jdeity
11-23-2007, 06:57 PM
so would you split kind of like this?


day1 deadlift
day2 off
day3 bench
day4 off
day5 squat
day6 off
day7 bench
day8 off
day9 deadlift




Something along those lines?


So does the whole "if I'm just sore from typeI fibers from repetitive light work on the job, I should still be able to workout heavy dl's, since they're almost entirely typeII fibers" thing not really hold water? I could see it going both ways but it just seems soreness shouldn't be lifted on.

<<btw rhodes I've gotta say I'm surprised your answer wasn't more like '**** soreness, just dl more!' lol>>

Chickenlegs
11-23-2007, 08:16 PM
My lower back was sore everyday from working as well, because it was weak. After deadlifting consistently for a couple months, the pain disappeared. I would suggest going lighter with your deads when you're sore but not skipping the session. Consistency is key.

jdeity
11-23-2007, 08:23 PM
My lower back was sore everyday from working as well, because it was weak. After deadlifting consistently for a couple months, the pain disappeared. I would suggest going lighter with your deads when you're sore but not skipping the session. Consistency is key.

werd.

chicklegs, could you give me a *rough* off the top of your head breakdown for what you'd do? I do something in the middle of sumo and normal stance.

My all time max is 405, but I'd presume it's mid-300's right now as I was off for a good bit of time due to life/work/no gym. Are you saying lighter weights but still to failure? I feel like that's still pulling too much typeI fiber, which is what's the problem in the first place.. Assuming I have a raw 350lbs max pull right now, would you suggest something like:

bar/warmup
135X10
185X5
205X5
250X5
270X2
290X2
300X2
320X2, 2, 1


Something like that? I'm a little confused if you mean to just stay away from heavy singles/doubles or to just do a more bodybuilding-esque approach and do lighter weights with way higher reps, or if I should just do what I'd normally do but keep it lighter when approaching singles/doubles... :confused:

<<my confusion is if you mean lighter as in bodybuilder style or lighter as in pl-style, but just staying lighter than what I'd wanna do. Are you suggesting a low weight/high rep approach, or a standard approach but keeping away from real maxing and all?>>

RhodeHouse
11-24-2007, 12:01 AM
Type 1 blah, blah, blah. Don't waste your time wuth that. If your best is 350, this is what i would do.
135x3
225x1
275x1
315x1
335x1
go for a 5lb PR.

I would lift Mon, Wed, Fri and rotate the plan as needed. kinda like you outlined, but just lift on the same days each week. It's easier on your schedule.

NEVER train to failure if you can help it. When you get real heavy and you're wondering if you'll get it, don't try it. If you know you're gonna get it, go for it. Training to failure trains you to fail.

Fuzzy
11-24-2007, 06:07 AM
Deadlift once a month, or not at all.

Deadlifts are great, but between squats, GMs and stiffie deads you should get adequete posterior stimulation, keep up the heavy pulling work and your upper back will do fine to.

Obviously nothing can replace a true deadlift for strength and size but you might just want to leave it out altogether.

jdeity
11-24-2007, 08:43 AM
I see what you mean fuzzy but any kind of posterior chain stuff has the same issue - my lower/middle back is just sore from doing my daily work any lower/middle back work seems like I either can't do it or can do it very infrequently. Good mornings would probably be even worse (actually almost certainly worse for the way my back feels) than dl's. SLDL's would be fine but I'd be missing good lower back work.

Meh I think I'm just gonna experiment and see what it's like, maybe if I get through a few sessions while sore the soreness from work stuff will go away and I'll be in the blue!<as chicklegs said>

rhodes I like that "NEVER train to failure if you can help it. When you get real heavy and you're wondering if you'll get it, don't try it. If you know you're gonna get it, go for it. Training to failure trains you to fail."

But does that mean you seldom miss? I didn't know that was common, I guessed if I saw your log (should probably check out your journal/log lol) I'd see a lot of misses, just how I presumed it was done with the competitive guys. I've only got one miss since I got my new gym, but if I had a spotter it'd be quite a few more, as I'm not doing anything too hard due to no safety bars or spotter.

Chickenlegs
11-24-2007, 02:19 PM
jdeity-- I'm with you, somewhere in between conventional and sumo. Conventional seems awkward , but I still want to keep a nice ROM, so I don't go too wide. My grip is pretty much shoulder width with my knees just outside of them at the start.

I usually do 4 sets at a weight I can do 4-5 reps with a warm up set(once a week). If my back was bothering me I would probably drop the weight to where I could do 12 reps. Like I said before, my back has been feeling great, so it's been full steam ahead. I just started deadlifting about 5 months ago, so someone with more experience may have better advice. I just know my back bothered me everyday and I didn't skip my deadlift days. Now, my back is not an issue.

ps-- How's the remodel coming along? Been there before....it can be a little overwhelming at times.

RhodeHouse
11-24-2007, 02:43 PM
I see what you mean fuzzy but any kind of posterior chain stuff has the same issue - my lower/middle back is just sore from doing my daily work any lower/middle back work seems like I either can't do it or can do it very infrequently. Good mornings would probably be even worse (actually almost certainly worse for the way my back feels) than dl's. SLDL's would be fine but I'd be missing good lower back work.

Meh I think I'm just gonna experiment and see what it's like, maybe if I get through a few sessions while sore the soreness from work stuff will go away and I'll be in the blue!<as chicklegs said>

rhodes I like that "NEVER train to failure if you can help it. When you get real heavy and you're wondering if you'll get it, don't try it. If you know you're gonna get it, go for it. Training to failure trains you to fail."

But does that mean you seldom miss? I didn't know that was common, I guessed if I saw your log (should probably check out your journal/log lol) I'd see a lot of misses, just how I presumed it was done with the competitive guys. I've only got one miss since I got my new gym, but if I had a spotter it'd be quite a few more, as I'm not doing anything too hard due to no safety bars or spotter.

No, I rarely miss a weight. I like to end my training on a positive note. Missing a weight, makes me think about it all week. Then, it becomes a negative thought process. If you hit a weight, and it flies, you feel great all week. Positive thoughts go a long way to building a big total.

Bohizzle
11-24-2007, 02:48 PM
Rhodes is giving solid advice, if ur back is too sore to pull, lay off of it. There's no point in forcing a workout when ur too tired from working and lead to a possible injury.

Chickenlegs
11-24-2007, 02:50 PM
No, I rarely miss a weight. I like to end my training on a positive note. Missing a weight, makes me think about it all week. Then, it becomes a negative thought process. If you hit a weight, and it flies, you feel great all week. Positive thoughts go a long way to building a big total.

Rhodes-- You think like a winner...I like it.

RhodeHouse
11-24-2007, 02:53 PM
Rhodes-- You think like a winner...I like it.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Chubrock
11-24-2007, 03:01 PM
Rhodes-- You think like a winner...I like it.


****, Rhodes thinks whatever I tell him to think....


Alright, don't eat me now.

RhodeHouse
11-24-2007, 03:39 PM
****, Rhodes thinks whatever I tell him to think....


Alright, don't eat me now.

Don't ruin my image, sir.

Chubrock
11-24-2007, 03:59 PM
Haha I couldn't do that if I wanted to. You're quickly taking over my place on the throne and I don't mean the ****ter.