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RhodeHouse
11-24-2007, 03:58 PM
Since I know nothing about diet and nutrition, as I've been told numerous times, I want the "gurus" on here to help me out with "the perfect" diet.

Goals:
- weigh between 330-340lbs by May
- consume between 300-400g of protein per day

Concerns:
- I'm not a huge eater, that's why I've used shakes to get to my goal
- with my schedule, I can realistically get 3 meals per day. There are chances at work where I can eat, but I can definately get 3 good meals per day
- eating 300-400g of protein a day is tough. I know I can't eat the equivalent to 3-4 lbs of beef everyday

Show me your ways of gaining muscle and minimizing fat gain. Right now I weigh 304lbs. If you need anymore info, let me know.

mickyjune26
11-24-2007, 07:27 PM
Blend 4 pounds of chicken, whole wheat flour and olive oil together and drink ALL your meals, lol.

Rhodes, I used to be one of those people thinking I bulk by eating completely clean. It didn't work. I'm too lazy to do that. ...most skinny minnies like me are too lazy also...

With your help, I've realized that it's not the end of the damn world bulking and eating dirty sometimes. Thanks for your encouragement and advice on these forums.

Plus, I can just burn off the fat next summer, right! ;)

BFGUITAR
11-24-2007, 08:23 PM
Man, I dont know how you can be so heavy and not be a big eater. Thats dedication right there!

mickyjune26
11-24-2007, 08:27 PM
i was assuming it was all sarcasm cast towards people who want to get bigger but not do it the way that will most likely ensure success.

RhodeHouse
11-25-2007, 12:23 AM
No sarcasm at all. I'm actually willing to try it a different way. I know I can gain 40lbs eating the way I have in the past. I don't want to just put on fat, but I'll do whatever I need to do to get to my goals. If I could do it and be leaner, that's cool. As much as i wanna be huge, it's nice to be lean, too. Especially when you're 300+ lbs. Some abs might look pretty good.

So, to those that think my ways are horrible and unfit for use. Help me with your ways.

Mickeyjune - I appreciate the words. I hope some tidbit of advice has helped you. Keep after it. At 6'7", you could carry 450lbs. That would rock!

HahnB
11-25-2007, 01:06 AM
Dirty or clean that many calories in 3 meals would be crazy. Gaining weight at 300lbs will be hard no matter what you do. You could always wear a camel pack at work filled with a blend of milk and olive oil. *vomits*

mickyjune26
11-25-2007, 09:31 AM
No sarcasm at all. I'm actually willing to try it a different way. I know I can gain 40lbs eating the way I have in the past. I don't want to just put on fat, but I'll do whatever I need to do to get to my goals. If I could do it and be leaner, that's cool. As much as i wanna be huge, it's nice to be lean, too. Especially when you're 300+ lbs. Some abs might look pretty good.

So, to those that think my ways are horrible and unfit for use. Help me with your ways.

Mickeyjune - I appreciate the words. I hope some tidbit of advice has helped you. Keep after it. At 6'7", you could carry 450lbs. That would rock!

In that case, sorry for being an ass. :redface:

450 would be huge. I could shotput a small car, lol. let's do it!!!

VikingWarlord
11-25-2007, 10:52 AM
Out of curiosity, why is 300-400g of protein one of your goals?

That's most definitely going to be a bitch to do.

whiteman90909
11-25-2007, 11:01 AM
Out of curiosity, why is 300-400g of protein one of your goals?

That's most definitely going to be a bitch to do.

I don't think that much protein will be too hard if you're already consuming most of your calories in shakes right now... but the advice that has helped me the most is simply enough dont eat anything plain. If you're eating chicken, put olive oil on it. A sandwich, slather it in mayo. Pasta, throw some cheese on that... whatever you can that is high in calories, because just an extra 100 calories per dish may not seem like much, but it can be what pushes you over your plateau. Good luck with your goal, anything over 300 is awesome!

KingWilder
11-25-2007, 11:04 AM
do you know what your maintenance calories are or have you always just eaten everything in site to gain weight?

also do you happen to know your body fat% ?

Slim Schaedle
11-25-2007, 11:08 AM
Concerns:
- I'm not a huge eater, that's why I've used shakes to get to my goal



16oz milk (I use skim - not sure if whole will affect consistency much)

1 cup frozen fruit (buy from Sam's or Costco - bags are relatively cheap - get variety such as mized, mixed berries, bluberries, strawberries)

12 tbsp splenda

2 cups oats (get from Sam's or Costco)

4 tbsp (1 scoop) egg white powder (can use whey if desired, egg powder does not take away from shake yummy-ness)


Blend it all up.

Everything will fit in standard shaker.

Calories = 1016
Protein = 84g
Carbs = 142
Fat = 12

Bump up the fat with a tablespoon of olive oil.

Might need slightly more milk during blending iof too thick.

3 of these plus your normal meals and you should be set.

Outshine
11-25-2007, 12:03 PM
Definitely not attempting/claiming to be anything close to a guru, but here goes...


eating 300-400g of protein a day is tough. I know I can't eat the equivalent to 3-4 lbs of beef everyday

300-400 grams of protein per day only really becomes tough due to your schedule of only being sure of getting 3 meals per day. If you could do the more typical 6-7 meals per day thing, just get around 50 grams of protein per meal and you're there.

Eggs/egg whites one meal, chicken another, fish another, lean meat another, and the rest shakes. Or use more shakes/less food more food/less shakes as needed. If you can find a not-too-junky protein bar, they're pretty convenient too.

I personally get 250ish grams of protein per day no problem. The key though is that I can get 6-7 meals in during the day.


Goals:
- weigh between 330-340lbs by May
Show me your ways of gaining muscle and minimizing fat gain. Right now I weigh 304lbs.

So, you're basically looking to gain about 30lbs in about 25 weeks. It's obviously doable, but since you are stepping over to the gain-muscle-while-minimizing-fat-gain side (we'll teach you the handshake) it may make it a bit tougher, as 0.5lb - 1lb per week is the ideal weight gain rate according to everything I've ever read by people 80 times smarter than me. You can still get damn close, though.

You're going to need to get some kind of calorie intake estimate. fitday.com will be helpful. You basically just need to figure out your daily maintenance level, and then start eating 250-500 calories above that every day. Weigh yourself weekly (first thing in the morning, of course) and track what happens. If you're gaining a lot more than you should be, cut back 100-300 calories. If you're gaining slower than you should be, add 100-300 calories.

I'd of course also recommend getting whatever calories you end up needing to eat from as many clean sources as you are willing to get them from. Tracking calories is the biggest thing, but keeping track of where those calories are coming from can definitely help.

RhodeHouse
11-25-2007, 01:06 PM
Dirty or clean that many calories in 3 meals would be crazy. Gaining weight at 300lbs will be hard no matter what you do. You could always wear a camel pack at work filled with a blend of milk and olive oil. *vomits*

I would use shakes because that's really the only way I can get in enough protein. I'm undecided on how to do it best. When I use 4 per day, I have trouble eating. I'm not sure of the protein jacks me up, or the milk.

i was thinking about 2 100g shakes a day. One with breakfast and 1 before bed. i know it's not optimal, but it's 200g. Any thoughts?

RhodeHouse
11-25-2007, 01:10 PM
Definitely not attempting/claiming to be anything close to a guru, but here goes...



300-400 grams of protein per day only really becomes tough due to your schedule of only being sure of getting 3 meals per day. If you could do the more typical 6-7 meals per day thing, just get around 50 grams of protein per meal and you're there.

Eggs/egg whites one meal, chicken another, fish another, lean meat another, and the rest shakes. Or use more shakes/less food more food/less shakes as needed. If you can find a not-too-junky protein bar, they're pretty convenient too.

I personally get 250ish grams of protein per day no problem. The key though is that I can get 6-7 meals in during the day.



So, you're basically looking to gain about 30lbs in about 25 weeks. It's obviously doable, but since you are stepping over to the gain-muscle-while-minimizing-fat-gain side (we'll teach you the handshake) it may make it a bit tougher, as 0.5lb - 1lb per week is the ideal weight gain rate according to everything I've ever read by people 80 times smarter than me. You can still get damn close, though.

You're going to need to get some kind of calorie intake estimate. fitday.com will be helpful. You basically just need to figure out your daily maintenance level, and then start eating 250-500 calories above that every day. Weigh yourself weekly (first thing in the morning, of course) and track what happens. If you're gaining a lot more than you should be, cut back 100-300 calories. If you're gaining slower than you should be, add 100-300 calories.

I'd of course also recommend getting whatever calories you end up needing to eat from as many clean sources as you are willing to get them from. Tracking calories is the biggest thing, but keeping track of where those calories are coming from can definitely help.

With my usual shakes, I get 7 meals per day. i sometimes get 9-10 when I snack at work. It's usually just a few hundred calories - bars and the like.

Makes sense. I know I won't count calories so I would think eating the same thing each day will give me close to the same amount of calories per day.

Slim Schaedle
11-25-2007, 05:24 PM
I'm undecided on how to do it best.
Any thoughts?




Stfu, and do what I said above.

;)


p***y

Bako Lifter
11-25-2007, 07:51 PM
3 bako shakes = 300g of protein / 7,500 calories

:)

mickyjune26
11-25-2007, 08:30 PM
3 bako shakes = 300g of protein / 7,500 calories

:)

lol, and an assload of fat....

...you know your shakes rock!

Lones Green
11-25-2007, 08:39 PM
rhodes, you can almost hit 1000lbs on squat, i think you have a pretty good idea of how to gain weight. i'm the same size as you, but about 1/2 as strong, and i'm a heavy eater. i have no problem getting in 5-6 k cals a day a plenty of protein. then again, i do have the chance to eat 8 times a day.

RhodeHouse
11-25-2007, 10:52 PM
do you know what your maintenance calories are or have you always just eaten everything in site to gain weight?

also do you happen to know your body fat% ?

It's about 18%. I eat until I start gaining. When I stop making progress, I add more until I start gaining again.

RhodeHouse
11-25-2007, 10:55 PM
Out of curiosity, why is 300-400g of protein one of your goals?

That's most definitely going to be a bitch to do.

Because with my last weight gain cycle, I was over 300 everyday and I put on a ton of muscle and kept the bloat to a minimum. It was very noticable that I was getting bigger, but not fatter.

RhodeHouse
11-25-2007, 10:56 PM
I like the shake ideas. As long as they don't bother my stomach, I'll be good to go.

mikey4402
11-25-2007, 11:06 PM
i do 3 meals and the rest are shakes. Add some olive oil to the shakes.

You mentioned that they are hard on your stomach, try drinking them with water.

Outshine
11-26-2007, 08:40 AM
It's about 18%. I eat until I start gaining. When I stop making progress, I add more until I start gaining again.

That's really all there is to it. Since you want to keep fat gain to a minimum, you just need to keep the rate of weight gain on the low/slow side (0.5-1lb per week seems ideal), and also keep the calories you add when weight gain stops on the lower side as well (I'm personally a fan of 250-300 calorie increments).

mickyjune26
11-26-2007, 08:47 AM
Maybe this is a given, but Maximus could be the best for shakes, as it contains some good complex carbs, a lot of protein and nutrients for your joints and recovery.

Paul Stagg
11-26-2007, 09:17 AM
I think you need to figure out a way to eat more than 3 meals a day.

I would use the following as my template

350g protein a day
at least 1 serving of veggies at every feeding.
Fruit whenever you want

I would start around 5000 calories a day. Follow the above, add in whatever it takes to get you to 5000 calroies a day. Do that for a week, see what happens. Adjust the calories to gain weight - go with a pound a week, that should get you to your goal. I like to eat more and do more activity, I think that's better for you (just my opinion, I have no idea if it's true), so maybe add in some sled/prowler/lumbering around, and let yourself eat more.

I would pay attention only to saturated fats - you'll get plenty eating that much, so I would try to stay away from them when you can.

sharkall2003
11-26-2007, 09:58 PM
I think along with the shake that Slim posted you should add three meals as Paul said with veggies and fruit, and then have some round steak. It's relatively inexpensive and it tastes good. It also will give you a lot of protein and fats to add to your diet.

Bergs
11-27-2007, 08:42 AM
i was thinking about 2 100g shakes a day. One with breakfast and 1 before bed. i know it's not optimal, but it's 200g. Any thoughts?

I'm no doctor, but I can't imagine that a normal human can process that much protein in one go. I think I heard the limit's around 50g, but that might be pure speculation. Then again, if your shake is mostly slow-acting protein like casein and considering your body size, 100g might not be too much at once.

Have you considered an IV drip?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-27-2007, 02:06 PM
I'm no doctor, but I can't imagine that a normal human can process that much protein in one go. I think I heard the limit's around 50g, but that might be pure speculation.That's incorrect. Your body is going to process whatever it needs. There are millions of other processes in the body that use protein...and when you need to eat excess calories to gain in which you're eating that much, you're going to be using the calories, whether it's from protein, carbs, or fat. Where do you think the rest of the protein magically goes? You don't eat 60 grams of protein and piss 10 grams away. That's not how it works. Also, bodybuilders, powerlifters, and athletes in general have a higher demand for nutrients than your average joe. Protein doesn't just have one pathway towards its end.



Then again, if your shake is mostly slow-acting protein like casein and considering your body size, 100g might not be too much at once.That's also wrong. Your body is digesting food all day long.

Bergs
11-27-2007, 02:29 PM
Where do you think the rest of the protein magically goes? You don't eat 60 grams of protein and piss 10 grams away. That's not how it works.
Well... technically, you're right. You don't piss the protein away. Excess protein gets metabolized as ammonia and is excreted that way. You're still not using it for anything useful though. I couldn't find any studies on it, but here are a couple of links:

http://drirene.healthandage.com/qa3/qa180192.htm (only gets a sentence's mention, but I just picked the first google link)
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/39/2/339.pdf (yes, this about rabbits...)

Where do *you* think the protein magically goes if the body already has enough? Into a gunnysack for later use? No, it goes to your bladder.





Then again, if your shake is mostly slow-acting protein like casein and considering your body size, 100g might not be too much at once.
That's also wrong. Your body is digesting food all day long.
I fail to see your point here. Maybe you didn't read what I wrote carefully enough? The sentence of mine is basically stating that because of his size/muscle mass, he may very well be able to get away with a shotgun-shake like that. The fact that I suggested a casein shake means I recognize the ability of the body to elongate the digestion period.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-27-2007, 02:37 PM
The fact that I suggested a casein shake means I recognize the ability of the body to elongate the digestion period.The digestion period can be 12 hours or more. At night, you're probably still digesting what you ate for breakfast.



Where do *you* think the protein magically goes if the body already has enough? Into a gunnysack for later use? No, it goes to your bladder.Fat is the only macronutrient that gets stored for later use. Protein can be converted to carbs via gluconeogenesis if need be, or it's stored as fat, or it's pissed away, or it's...you get the point.

You're right...if you're not using it, it goes elsewhere (excretion, or converted and stored, or whatever). But that's irrelevant to those trying to gain weight. Everyone is different and nobody is going to know exactly how much they're using so there's no point in worrying about it. The only concern is getting enough, so we eat based on dietary guidelines making sure that we do, in fact, get enough. Just eat your protein and don't get all frazzled over mundane details.

Bergs
11-27-2007, 02:53 PM
Hmm.. I was under the impression that while digestion can last that long, most of the nutrients are extracted by around the five hour mark. I could easily be wrong, though.

And... you're right, too - just eat your protein and don't worry is usually the answer. But he was asking about the massive shakes, so I decided to give my half-baked opinion. I assumed he didn't wanna hear "don't worry about it" and I've really got little better to do at work than pontificate on macronutrient timing.

RhodeHouse
11-27-2007, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it.