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View Full Version : Late night workouts + Post meal.



mistergalarza
11-29-2007, 01:24 PM
Guys I believe I've asked this before but I don't think I have a clear answer in my head. (asked long ago) So I'll try again for all you experts out here.

My workouts are late at night for two nights, on these two nights, would it matter if my post workout meal ( would be at 11:30 pm - 12 am ) contained carbs even late at night?

I believe it wouldn't matter since it would go back to refueling my depleted body correct, and thus not causing negative fat storage AND it would still be under my calorie goals for the day.

Please correct me! :thumbup:

Unreal
11-29-2007, 02:18 PM
Your are correct. Look at total for the day. Timing doesn't matter besides for satiety and energy levels. If the calories are the same for the day then it won't matter.

mistergalarza
11-29-2007, 02:41 PM
Thanks for the reply!

Would it have been that my workout was earlier in the day - the carbs would definitely have effect on a less active body during the night, no? What I mean is - if I had worked out and done all my pre/post meals but made my last meal contain carbs as well, the effects would be adverse.

One other thing so I won't create another thread...

Views on Whole wheat bread - not enriched?

and views on whole grain/ whole wheat pasta?

Can they be used on a cut - as far as I know, these are low GI foods, thus spreading out energy levels, keeping you from crashing, no?

I was having this discussion with a friend that says the pasta will hinder my results, obviously I thought otherwise.

Your views?

arnoldsclone
11-29-2007, 04:03 PM
Thanks for the reply!

Would it have been that my workout was earlier in the day - the carbs would definitely have effect on a less active body during the night, no? What I mean is - if I had worked out and done all my pre/post meals but made my last meal contain carbs as well, the effects would be adverse.

One other thing so I won't create another thread...

Views on Whole wheat bread - not enriched?

and views on whole grain/ whole wheat pasta?

Can they be used on a cut - as far as I know, these are low GI foods, thus spreading out energy levels, keeping you from crashing, no?

I was having this discussion with a friend that says the pasta will hinder my results, obviously I thought otherwise.

Your views?

i have had no problem eating whole wheat or whole grain anything on a cut, just make sure you don't eat simple carbs, no sugars, no bleached flour, no highly processed carbs....... eat the carbs first thing in the morning, right before you lift and right after you lift..............and when you have pasta don't worry about it it's a complex carb and if you cook it "al dente" ( not mushy but not hard) it digests even slower........

mistergalarza
11-29-2007, 09:23 PM
i have had no problem eating whole wheat or whole grain anything on a cut, just make sure you don't eat simple carbs, no sugars, no bleached flour, no highly processed carbs....... eat the carbs first thing in the morning, right before you lift and right after you lift..............and when you have pasta don't worry about it it's a complex carb and if you cook it "al dente" ( not mushy but not hard) it digests even slower........


Great that's what I thought - he kept chanting "lets see your results on your pasta fest"... So I will... (It's only one meal anyway.)

I stay away from the simple, sugars, all processed / enriched crap when cutting, I just throw in some fruit for my morning shake. yum. Happy about the whole grain pasta, it doesn't taste bad at all, a little chewy but nonetheless you throw in some ground up lean cut beef and it's a great meal.

Thanks for the reply! You the man! If anyone else has any opposing views I would like to read! thanks.

Slim Schaedle
11-29-2007, 10:48 PM
and if you cook it "al dente" ( not mushy but not hard) it digests even slower........

can you elaborate?

zztoproadster
11-29-2007, 11:22 PM
For muscle gain your post-workout meal is the most important meal of the day. Simple (fruit) carbs first must be consumed 30 minutes after your workout, followed by complex (starch) carbs 1 to 2 hours after. This aids in recuperation, which is a very important aspect for getting fitter and building bigger muscles quickly. Simple carbs act as an electrolyte to replace body fluids that were lost during a hard intense workout because they are loaded with natural sugars and potassium. It is your "window of opportunity" making up at least 50% of your results that are initiated for effecting body composition change, which takes place "outside the gym." Refer to my other article "Recuperation and Growth."
- Bodybuilding.com

i checked out some other sites for you and they said about the same thing.
i know for powerlifters we love carbs for size, but i didn't know if it was ok for bodybuilders.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-29-2007, 11:33 PM
The "window" is a lot more lenient than some would like to think. As Belial once said, the window is more like a barn door. If you're trying to reach a low body fat percentage, then the tiny details do become more important, but if you're just packing on mass, there's a lot more elbow room when it comes to macronutrient timing.

zztoproadster
11-29-2007, 11:39 PM
i just eat the **** out of everything that has calories, protein, and carbs pretty much all the time. seems to work for me lol.
for bodybuilding i really have no idea how important the window is or what to eat and what not to eat for cutting back and such.

the nutritionist in powerlifting usa said within an hour i think. if you don't get it before an hour, i dont think it's too big a deal though.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-29-2007, 11:57 PM
The hour thing is rather outdated. Protein synthesis doesn't magically halt completely when the hour is up. Your body is repairing muscle tissue all day long. They're just trying to stress the point that eating is rather important for muscle growth and by making the hour claim, it panics people into making sure they get their post-workout meal in. It's not so drastic though. What matters at the end of the day is making sure you got in enough calories and macros. Mmmm. Food.

zztoproadster
11-30-2007, 12:17 AM
i get hungry like as soon as i'm done workin out so i just eat when i'm done and every few hours til i go to bed. i think carbs and protein are more, or as important as calories. if i only take in 2500 calories one day but 250 grams of protein i'm happy.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-30-2007, 12:46 AM
If you're bulking and you need to get 4,500 calories, then you're not going to grow, despite the 250 grams of protein. Calories are vital in this game. Fat is also very important, since fat is responsible for hormone regulation and testosterone production...not to mention it's very satiating and high in calories.

smalls
11-30-2007, 01:31 AM
The hour thing is rather outdated. Protein synthesis doesn't magically halt completely when the hour is up. Your body is repairing muscle tissue all day long. They're just trying to stress the point that eating is rather important for muscle growth and by making the hour claim, it panics people into making sure they get their post-workout meal in. It's not so drastic though. What matters at the end of the day is making sure you got in enough calories and macros. Mmmm. Food.



If you're bulking and you need to get 4,500 calories, then you're not going to grow, despite the 250 grams of protein. Calories are vital in this game. Fat is also very important, since fat is responsible for hormone regulation and testosterone production...not to mention it's very satiating and high in calories.

Good advice.

Unreal
11-30-2007, 07:28 AM
i have had no problem eating whole wheat or whole grain anything on a cut, just make sure you don't eat simple carbs, no sugars, no bleached flour, no highly processed carbs....... eat the carbs first thing in the morning, right before you lift and right after you lift..............and when you have pasta don't worry about it it's a complex carb and if you cook it "al dente" ( not mushy but not hard) it digests even slower........

Whole grain maybe more nurtrient dense and keep you fuller longer, but when it comes to weight loss the overall calories is what is going to matter. You can eat 600 cals of pure bleached white flour and sugar or 600 cals of of oats and the end result will be the same over the course of the day. Now the oats are going to be higher in fiber, nutrients, and will keep you fuller longer but 600 cals is 600 cals.

mistergalarza
11-30-2007, 08:44 AM
Whole grain maybe more nurtrient dense and keep you fuller longer, but when it comes to weight loss the overall calories is what is going to matter. You can eat 600 cals of pure bleached white flour and sugar or 600 cals of of oats and the end result will be the same over the course of the day. Now the oats are going to be higher in fiber, nutrients, and will keep you fuller longer but 600 cals is 600 cals.

Ok, but let's say I throw in oats as my last meal before bed. I've been into this for a bit now and maybe times are changed, but lets say I did what you said - 600 cals of flour, or regular pasta before bed. The effects of the oats (pretend its 600 cals too), will have a different effect than the pasta since the oats digests slower and releases the converted energy at consistent spurts as opposed to white pasta that would instantly affect insulin and causing fat storage. Am I wrong?


BTW, thanks for the replies guys.

Unreal
11-30-2007, 02:17 PM
It will only cause fat storage if your over your maintence. Your body is constantly storing an burning fat, even while sleeping.

Your body is way way way more complex then just "high GI->fat". Are you already glycogen loaded? Are you depleted? Even if it is stored as fat it would just be temporary and burn right off. Lets say it gets stored as fat and overnight you body burns 600 cals. Well it needs that energy from somewhere so it will burn off the fat instead of using the slow released carbs. then again this is way way way too simplified.

arnoldsclone
11-30-2007, 03:08 PM
Whole grain maybe more nurtrient dense and keep you fuller longer, but when it comes to weight loss the overall calories is what is going to matter. You can eat 600 cals of pure bleached white flour and sugar or 600 cals of of oats and the end result will be the same over the course of the day. Now the oats are going to be higher in fiber, nutrients, and will keep you fuller longer but 600 cals is 600 cals.

BUT you missed my line of thought which i take for granted here lol, the highly processed carbs on a cut are bad because of the insulin response they cause, they make you more likely to store them as fat instead of slowly digesting and not spiking your insulin levels and going more towards muscle repaor and growth..........you can have your 600 cals of bleached flour and 600 cals of sugar, I'll take my 600 clas of honey and 600 cals whole grains any day of the week and my body will be leaner for it, even with the same cals...................bank it

mistergalarza
11-30-2007, 04:04 PM
BUT you missed my line of thought which i take for granted here lol, the highly processed carbs on a cut are bad because of the insulin response they cause, they make you more likely to store them as fat instead of slowly digesting and not spiking your insulin levels and going more towards muscle repaor and growth..........you can have your 600 cals of bleached flour and 600 cals of sugar, I'll take my 600 clas of honey and 600 cals whole grains any day of the week and my body will be leaner for it, even with the same cals...................bank it

This is exactly what i'm saying - the insulin will respond to the processed/enriched products, spike, crash and store.

The only exception I believe in is maybe substituting brown rice post workout for a cup of white rice to purposely spike and feed the muscle quicker. Any thoughts on this?

arnoldsclone
11-30-2007, 04:18 PM
This is exactly what i'm saying - the insulin will respond to the processed/enriched products, spike, crash and store.

The only exception I believe in is maybe substituting brown rice post workout for a cup of white rice to purposely spike and feed the muscle quicker. Any thoughts on this?


EXACTLY! lol, you should have some fast acting carbs right after you wrok out and right before it, even during if you want to drink a soda. Basically fast acting carbs make your body go into hyper drive storage mode, and if you have them close to a work out that's a plus for hypertrophy, but if you didn't work out close to eating simple carbs they'll store as fat..............

Slim Schaedle
11-30-2007, 06:30 PM
EXACTLY! lol, you should have some fast acting carbs right after you wrok out and right before it, even during if you want to drink a soda. Basically fast acting carbs make your body go into hyper drive storage mode, and if you have them close to a work out that's a plus for hypertrophy, but if you didn't work out close to eating simple carbs they'll store as fat..............

Then why can I eat 200 grams carbs worth in spaghetti right before bed, being at maintenance or slightly above week after week, and not get fat?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-30-2007, 07:02 PM
Thermodynamics. Not complicated. :read:

Unreal
11-30-2007, 07:04 PM
Your body isn't going to store anything if your well under maintence. It isn't goin going to say "Ohh fast carbs, straight to fat, who cares about all the other functions I need these cals for".

I gotta say, I do completely agree that you should try to stick with whole grains, nutrient dense food and try to time fast/slow carbs, but not for the reasons your presenting.

smalls
11-30-2007, 08:21 PM
Your body isn't going to store anything if your well under maintence. It isn't goin going to say "Ohh fast carbs, straight to fat, who cares about all the other functions I need these cals for".

I gotta say, I do completely agree that you should try to stick with whole grains, nutrient dense food and try to time fast/slow carbs, but not for the reasons your presenting.

Why people have such a hard time understanding this is beyond me. Eating whole grains, high fiber/nutient carbs is great. But if your eating less calories than you burn why would sugar just be stored as fat. The calorie is king.

Slim Schaedle
11-30-2007, 08:28 PM
Damnit, you guys weren't supposed to answer that :)

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Sorry. :(

Slim Schaedle
11-30-2007, 11:32 PM
EXACTLY! lol, you should have some fast acting carbs right after you wrok out and right before it, even during if you want to drink a soda. Basically fast acting carbs make your body go into hyper drive storage mode, and if you have them close to a work out that's a plus for hypertrophy, but if you didn't work out close to eating simple carbs they'll store as fat..............

.....


Carbs are almost never stored as fat per se.

Which isn't to say that exces won't make you fat, it's simply not (outside of very extreme conditions) through direct storage as fat.

Lyle

mistergalarza
12-01-2007, 01:18 PM
Okay okay, let's get some articles or discussion on this? I have a calorie king, and a *carb while sedentary = fat*.

What use would the body have for converted energy while the body is sedentary?

Basically then, which makes sense as well - if the body has less calories to work with, regardless of physical state - the body will burn the converted energy for regular bodily functions any way. Yes?

What use is eating slow burning carbs if not to maintain regularity on your insulin spikes (and fuller longer, etc.)?

Why do I get drowsy if I eat a cup of regular white rice at the office?

mistergalarza
12-02-2007, 07:07 PM
Nothing?

smalls
12-02-2007, 11:18 PM
Maybe it's because this crap has been discussed a billion times on this site and others. Search and read what others have already discussed on it and you'll probably find some answers.

Digestion itself can influence your body to a more parasympathetic state which is going to encourage rest (drowsyness). Falling asleep after eating is due to many things, not just insulin. And no one is saying white rice doesnt spike your insulin. Just that spiking your insulin doesnt make you fat if the overall calories arent there to encourage it.


My PWO meal is my last meal of the day often I make up for any calories not attained during the day at that time. Even when dieting I have some type of candy and or cereal, simply because that's why I want after dieting for weeks/months. Then I may have another shake with oats in it if my cals still arent there for the day. I get fat if I eat too many calories, not if I eat them too late. Try it and see how you respond. At the end of the day that's all some people will believe anyway.

mistergalarza
12-03-2007, 07:08 AM
Maybe it's because this crap has been discussed a billion times on this site and others. Search and read what others have already discussed on it and you'll probably find some answers.


Probably so, but I wanted to discuss it to get some further questions answered - I know what to do to find answers and if you're so annoyed by it then just don't answer. Let's not act like a preteeny on her monthly, you have no such luxury.

I will say though, thank you for the additional information.

I've actually experienced with both - but I've found that eating "flour, whites, etc." at night don't treat me well - while having oats in a shake at night pull off some great effects regardless of calories.

time for some experiments. 8)

Unreal
12-03-2007, 08:10 AM
Read Lyle's McDs stuff and all the stuff on Bernardi's site. That should get you going and keep you busy for awhile.

For example in UD2.0 you eat well over maintence for a day, tons of carbs, sugary junk yet don't store it as fat. That is all explained in the book who it works.

mistergalarza
12-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Thanks man! Appreciated.