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View Full Version : Would you Cut or Bulk first...??



xproushe
11-30-2007, 05:48 PM
Hey everyone, I need some advice on what route i should take first....i am 6'1 185lbs right now with about 13%bf.... im skinny but my body fat is too high, so the muscle that i do have looks very soft and i have no ab definition whatsoever.
My goal is to be around 200-205lbs with 6-8% body fat by next summer, so do i bulk first to gain the weight or do i cut first to drop the body fat.
As of right now i eat about 65% clean. Some days i take in 4000 calories, other days its 3000... I always take in around 200g of protein per day and only drink water throughout the day but i am definitely not on what you would call a good diet. I also workout 4 days a week- 2 upper/ 2 lower body.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as right now i feel like im wasting my time not eating properly (being a so called hardgainer)
thanks, Brian

Notorious
11-30-2007, 06:01 PM
Bulk first. If you cut and then bulk, you're going to put on a lot of fat again, which means you'll have to cut again anyways.

Unreal
11-30-2007, 08:07 PM
When it comes to questions like this, only you can decide. Do whatever you want. If you want to get bigger then "bulk" if you want to get leaner then "cut". Then again those two words are thrown around way too much. Most people should just focus on eating clean and enough to support gains. 65% clean or 65% sticking to a diet isn't going to get you anywhere fast.

mc wb
12-04-2007, 11:11 AM
When it comes to questions like this, only you can decide. Do whatever you want. If you want to get bigger then "bulk" if you want to get leaner then "cut". Then again those two words are thrown around way too much. Most people should just focus on eating clean and enough to support gains. 65% clean or 65% sticking to a diet isn't going to get you anywhere fast.

Absolutely right. What are your goals? it's that simple.

And also UNreal is bang on about 65% not doing it at all. 90% compliance with the plan, stan.

good luck

best
dr mc wb

1mmort4l
12-04-2007, 11:42 PM
Hey everyone, I need some advice on what route i should take first....i am 6'1 185lbs right now with about 13%bf.... im skinny but my body fat is too high, so the muscle that i do have looks very soft and i have no ab definition whatsoever.
My goal is to be around 200-205lbs with 6-8% body fat by next summer, so do i bulk first to gain the weight or do i cut first to drop the body fat.
As of right now i eat about 65% clean. Some days i take in 4000 calories, other days its 3000... I always take in around 200g of protein per day and only drink water throughout the day but i am definitely not on what you would call a good diet. I also workout 4 days a week- 2 upper/ 2 lower body.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as right now i feel like im wasting my time not eating properly (being a so called hardgainer)
thanks, Brian


6'1 185 and 13% BF? Not really much of a question worth asking IMO.
Each to their own, but i would just bulk dude.

whiteman90909
12-05-2007, 04:24 PM
Bulk. That way after your first cut you'll look better, and the effort will seem more worth it.

RhodeHouse
12-05-2007, 04:30 PM
13% and you can't see muscle? I doubt it. 6-8% after getting up to 205? What drugs are you gonna takle to do that? Not $hitting on you, but 6-8% is REAL hard to do. 13% is great BF, no matter how old you are.

Get after it!

And, Obviously a bulk. You should always be on a perpetual bulk. You work so hard to gain all that muscle and then you lose it? It makes no sense to me.

Jorge Sanchez
12-05-2007, 04:49 PM
I would bulk. I would also reevaluate your goals. Gaining 25lbs of lbm while losing 5% bodyfat in a few months is a little unrealistic if you're unassisted. It's a good long term goal, but you're just going to get frustrated if you aim to hit 200lbs at 8% by the summer.

mikey4402
12-05-2007, 05:15 PM
Winter is the best time to bulk. sooo bulk

RedSpikeyThing
12-05-2007, 05:15 PM
I would say bulk. 13% isn't high. You need to get that remeasured.

Con
12-05-2007, 06:43 PM
Then again those two words are thrown around way too much. Most people should just focus on eating clean and enough to support gains.

Ive seen people say this. What exactly do you mean?

Isnt bulking just trying to add strength/size, while cutting is attempting to lose bf/weight? Why would say they get thrown around?

xproushe
12-05-2007, 07:25 PM
well im pretty sure 13% isn't 100% accurate...but i just feel im way too skinny to not have any ab definition whatsoever...i know 13% isn't too high but i was just afraid if i bulk for a couple months ill end up at like 16-17% then have to drop it alot..but seems like its a no brainer and bulk first...so thanks for all your help!

Con
12-05-2007, 07:57 PM
well im pretty sure 13% isn't 100% accurate...but i just feel im way too skinny to not have any ab definition whatsoever...i know 13% isn't too high but i was just afraid if i bulk for a couple months ill end up at like 16-17% then have to drop it alot..but seems like its a no brainer and bulk first...so thanks for all your help!


Ive been trapped in the same mentality. I has some very faint upper ab definiton, but it seems for lighter folks, a low(er) bf% isnt going to mean great definition, atleast compared to the larger individual with significant muscle mass.

I also remember seeing an olympic lifter on this board who was like 10% bf I think, and not to be rude, looked like nothing special. Then on the other side, there is my friend who has an awesome 8-pack but doesnt pay attention to how much he eats but skateboards all the time.

Thats life tho...

Best advice I can give(and I need to be using it too) is make adjustments when necessary and realize this isn't an overnight thing. Just becuase you think you need 4000 cals, doesnt mean you need to keep that much if you end up gaining too fast. And ofcourse, people look great for a reason - lots of hard work.

GL.

RedSpikeyThing
12-05-2007, 09:31 PM
well im pretty sure 13% isn't 100% accurate...but i just feel im way too skinny to not have any ab definition whatsoever...i know 13% isn't too high but i was just afraid if i bulk for a couple months ill end up at like 16-17% then have to drop it alot..but seems like its a no brainer and bulk first...so thanks for all your help!

skinny doesn't mean you have a low bodyfat percentage. I would still say bulk because, assuming you train hard, you'll likely gain a lot of muscle.

Unreal
12-06-2007, 09:19 AM
Ive seen people say this. What exactly do you mean?

Isnt bulking just trying to add strength/size, while cutting is attempting to lose bf/weight? Why would say they get thrown around?

Everyone wants to cut or bulk like they are a pro body builder. Most people are never going to step on stage. They can't stick to a solid diet plan. People want to cut without any muscle to show, or use bulk as an excuse to eat whatever and get fat. Most people newer to lifting just need to get the basics down and stick to them for a bit before worrying about cutting/bulking.

mickyjune26
12-06-2007, 09:47 AM
13% and you can't see muscle? I doubt it. 6-8% after getting up to 205? What drugs are you gonna takle to do that? Not $hitting on you, but 6-8% is REAL hard to do. 13% is great BF, no matter how old you are.

Get after it!

And, Obviously a bulk. You should always be on a perpetual bulk. You work so hard to gain all that muscle and then you lose it? It makes no sense to me.

Agreed.

In my head there is only fast bulk and slow bulk. Bulk fast now during the summer, then carefully bulk slow, eating right so you start losing fat, but NO MUSCLE OR STRENGTH!

Why build up something to be lost later?

RhodeHouse
12-06-2007, 11:19 AM
well im pretty sure 13% isn't 100% accurate...but i just feel im way too skinny to not have any ab definition whatsoever...i know 13% isn't too high but i was just afraid if i bulk for a couple months ill end up at like 16-17% then have to drop it alot..but seems like its a no brainer and bulk first...so thanks for all your help!


The average man should be between 18-24%BF. That's normal range.

Your issues stem from one important fact that you are undoubtedly overlooking. In order to see your abs, you have to have abs. You can't flex bone. You need to spend A LOT of time lifting and don't waste time worrying about abs and BF. Just lift and eat. Once you build some appreciable muscle (about 10 years of lifting) the you can worry about BF and all that gay stuff.

mikey4402
12-06-2007, 11:35 AM
The average man should be between 18-24%BF. That's normal range.



are you sure about that? that seems a bit high

ZenMonkey
12-06-2007, 11:43 AM
^^ i think it is closer to 15. 18-24 is way too high

ZenMonkey
12-06-2007, 11:45 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage

8-14

BigMs
12-06-2007, 11:56 AM
18-24 is the normal range for women though

mikey4402
12-06-2007, 11:58 AM
^^Thats what i was thinking

whiteman90909
12-06-2007, 02:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage

8-14

It says 15%-19% is average for American men.

jamrock
12-06-2007, 02:43 PM
Eat a balanced meal, monitor your cals.. Bump em up to grow, knock em down to cut. You need to find a starting point though (2000, 3000, 3500, 4000 calories?). Lift hard, I'd do a combination of strength and volume. Like 3 days medium intensity compound work, and 2 days of isolation work. See how you respond, and do it how you need to for full recovery..

I'd say you're small, so eat up, and lift hard, and worry about cutting down to 200 lean when you've hit 215 not so lean. :D

mikey4402
12-06-2007, 03:17 PM
It says 15%-19% is average for American men.

and half of americans are obesse.

I think 9-15% would be a much more desirable and healthy range especaily for thouse who post on bodybuilding sites

xproushe
12-06-2007, 04:19 PM
thanks for all the help. i agree with what almost everyone is saying as well.
But i always thought you either had to either be bulking or cutting, simply because your either consuming more cals then your burning (bulking) or the opposite (cutting)...i guess one could find a spot somewhere in the middle of the two extremes to maintain gaining muscle at a steady, healthy pace...
But being a so called "hardgainer" it seems the only real way to get any real gains is to bulk, simply because if im not consuming tons and tons of cals each day...i dont gain a pound and therefore i'd just wasting my time weight lifting at all.
So my real dilemma was, seeing if i should get my bf% down to the level i wanted it at first...then bulk for a long period of time....instead of bulking for a little while then having to cut all the fat i gained plus what i have to lose now..?

RhodeHouse
12-06-2007, 05:30 PM
Yeah, you guys are right. I work with WAY TOO many women. 12-18% is the average man, give or take. Broads - they're nice to look at, though.

1mmort4l
12-07-2007, 12:28 AM
Everyone wants to cut or bulk like they are a pro body builder. Most people are never going to step on stage. They can't stick to a solid diet plan. People want to cut without any muscle to show, or use bulk as an excuse to eat whatever and get fat. Most people newer to lifting just need to get the basics down and stick to them for a bit before worrying about cutting/bulking.

Good post, i was thinking about this the other day..