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brihead301
12-11-2007, 09:41 AM
For those of you that do them, how long did it take you to learn how to properly do them?

I want to start adding them to my routine, but I can't seem to get the friggin timing down. I read all about how they're supposed to be done from starting strength, but I just can't seem to get the coordination down. I can catch the bar in the rack position just fine when I don't jump, but when I try to jump, I can't seem to get the timing down so that I land at the same time I rack the bar. I haven't tried these with any weight yet, just the bar, but they're awkward as hell.

Also, when I jump, I land all weird. My legs are all wide, and my knees end up far forward, and my chest sticks out. Lol, maybe I'm just not meant to do power cleans.

drew
12-11-2007, 09:45 AM
Find somebody who can teach you.

brihead301
12-11-2007, 09:50 AM
I don't know anyone, or I would. I just rely on books and videos. My gym consists of a total of maybe 15 members, and I've never seen anyone doing a power clean there.

WillKuenzel
12-11-2007, 10:19 AM
They're some of the most technical lifts you can ever think about doing. We were "taught" how to do them in high school. Our coach went to a few seminars and so decided they'd be good for us. I worked harder at them than most but still only made marginal progress at best.

I got to college and was actually coached by an olympic athlete that had been taught by a proper certified coach. I pretty much threw everything out the window and had to start from scratch and I wasn't the weakest on our track team in college.


For what goal do you want to do the power clean? Unless it's to actually compete in it, there are many other ways of going about it. I just think the power cleans are a waste of time. High pulls, speed squat, RDL's and many other things will generally give you a better correlation to what you're looking to do without having to spend forever learning the form of a lift that may not really benefit you.

brihead301
12-11-2007, 10:24 AM
I was just considering doing the SS routine one day after I finish up the routine I'm on now. In SS, he says you can substitute the row, but it's not as good as the power clean. He says that substituting the row simply because you don't want to take the time to learn the power clean is not recommended. That's why I've been trying to figure out how to do them. I'll probably just end up doing the rows anyway though while I practice cleans on the side.

WillKuenzel
12-11-2007, 10:28 AM
As good as the row for what? What are your goals? Learning the power clean, is one thing. It can be done but if it's to build big lats, the row will do that better. If it's to generate more strength out of the hips, then the power clean (or a variation) will work better. Tools in the toolbox. Make sure the tool fits.

brihead301
12-11-2007, 10:56 AM
I hear ya. Maybe I'll just stick with the rows then. My goals are to just get as big and strong as genetically possible. It's just one of the 5 basic movements in the book, so I figured he chose it for a reason.

I guess my goals are more directed toward getting bigger all over, so I suppose the row would be the better option for me.

It just kind of adds a new dimension to the strength training - power, being able to apply strength at precisely the right moments as quickly as possible.

JHarris
12-11-2007, 04:17 PM
It just kind of adds a new dimension to the strength training - power, being able to apply strength at precisely the right moments as quickly as possible.

Exactly! Its one thing to be big and strong, its another thing to be big, strong and athletic. The olympic lifts are hard because they require timing, coordination, speed, flexibility AND strength, not to mention a lot more technique than standard body-building lifts. They are humbling and there's no real way to cheat them to get more on the bar.

Do you need to do cleans to get strong? No. Will the investment of time in learning how to clean or snatch payoff for years to come? Yes. But others are right - know your goals. If you really only care about being big and strong in specific lifts, stick to them. If you'd like to be explosive as well, I'd recommend starting to learn the clean.

samadhi_smiles
12-16-2007, 10:08 AM
If someone has in their mind to build up a good base of strength before trying to learn the powerclean, would you say this person is on the right track?

It seems like a lift that you would want a fairly strong base to start with...all dynamic lifts seem like that to me.

JHarris
12-16-2007, 01:43 PM
If someone has in their mind to build up a good base of strength before trying to learn the powerclean, would you say this person is on the right track?

It seems like a lift that you would want a fairly strong base to start with...all dynamic lifts seem like that to me.

Yes and No. You can develop a lot of bad habits when you are trying to build a good strength base. For a lot of people, a good strength base means too much upper body workout which makes them want to use their arms in the lifts way too much.

On the other hand, if you knew you wanted to do the lifts, doing 4 weeks of prep work would be great. A lot of back/front/overhead squatting with pauses at the bottom would certainly help, as would RDLs (though not deadlifts as much). Bent over rows (again with a pause when the weight is at your chest) would also be ideal. Some strict standing military presses with holds at the top would be nice, and a lot of stretching.

Built
12-16-2007, 01:59 PM
I learned how to do cleans off the net, and I've been told that my form is pretty good. I got the movement right away. My husband tries to do them and can't resist the urge to try to curl the weight up. I think it's one of those "knack" things - some folks get 'em right away, others really have to work on it.

Bohizzle
12-16-2007, 02:07 PM
I self taught myself how to do them, and thought that my form was good. Then I got some tips and started training with a guy that is coached and has pretty decent form and realized that my form was absolute garbage.

IMO you are better off to learn the mechanics of the C+J and Snatch with as little prior strength work as possible because it will just make it harder to learn to do. I'm finding it extremely difficult to learn form. My mind knows what I should be doing, but my body doesn't want to obey it.

Andrew

Built
12-16-2007, 02:36 PM
It is unfortunate that so few of us will ever have access to a qualified coach to teach us the fundamental basics of athletics. It is SO important - and very few personal trainers know anything about it.

cameronp81
12-16-2007, 07:30 PM
Brihead301 I agree with several of the comments made by these guys. If you're looking to build lats cleans are not the way to go. However if you're looking to get big overall you need to workout every muscle in your body and cleans are a great way to get big traps. Plus they are an excellent workout to have period. The best way to learn is to watch people that are good at it, I've always had the best success when I get into a rut or feel like my technique is flawed, by watching people.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 06:55 AM
It is unfortunate that so few of us will ever have access to a qualified coach to teach us the fundamental basics of athletics. It is SO important - and very few personal trainers know anything about it.

so true

brihead301
12-17-2007, 06:57 AM
Brihead301 I agree with several of the comments made by these guys. If you're looking to build lats cleans are not the way to go. However if you're looking to get big overall you need to workout every muscle in your body and cleans are a great way to get big traps. Plus they are an excellent workout to have period. The best way to learn is to watch people that are good at it, I've always had the best success when I get into a rut or feel like my technique is flawed, by watching people.

I just was considering doing them because they were one of the "big 5" in Rippetoes routine.

Guido
12-17-2007, 07:54 AM
Some people are better at learning things by observation than others. Others learn better by doing. Bri, it sounds like you are the type that would do best to have someone qualified and experienced teach you. Maybe you could ask around or search on the net for qualified olympic lift coaches in your area. I don't know know where you live, but it's worth a shot.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 08:02 AM
I've considered that Guido, but I don't know if I really want to dedicate that much to learning how to do them. If I was going to take the time to find a coach, I would have him teach me how to do all the olympic lifts rather then just the power clean. For now, I think I may just stick to the row as a replacement.

samadhi_smiles
12-17-2007, 08:36 AM
Does anybody know of any sort of resource that might list active coaches that are proficient enough to teach lifts like the clean? I really would love to learn this lift, also, but have been holding back since I know I would probably mess up my learning curve with it.

Bohizzle
12-17-2007, 08:42 AM
google for coaches, if you see any in ur area, then google their name and see what comes up.

Fuzzy
12-17-2007, 09:07 AM
HIP EXTNESION.

Master these before you do more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06tykX06oU4

Watch how my quads hit the bar as I extend my body completley straight.

Shrug hard, but keep the arms like ropes, really loose.

Use hook grip to.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 09:17 AM
The hip extension looks like a great place to start with olympic lifts. I never heard of them before, but I like it.

Fuzzy
12-17-2007, 05:43 PM
The hip extension looks like a great place to start with olympic lifts. I never heard of them before, but I like it.

See! How the hell are people not supposed to power curl it when they cant even get the first part right.

Its like stepping on the pedal without the car on...

Starting there would be a good move.

JHarris
12-17-2007, 06:34 PM
Does anybody know of any sort of resource that might list active coaches that are proficient enough to teach lifts like the clean? I really would love to learn this lift, also, but have been holding back since I know I would probably mess up my learning curve with it.

You can find different clubs and the such on this website:

http://www.msbn.tv/usavision/

What part of the country are you in? I might know someone personally that I could put you into contact with.

samadhi_smiles
12-18-2007, 07:43 AM
Atlanta, GA

Sensei
12-18-2007, 10:21 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ZV4gE0eUE
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uHB1r5Lo5iU
http://thefitcast.com/?p=108
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html#Oly