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yankeekd25
12-11-2007, 01:55 PM
I have heard different ideas on post workout fats, but it is to my knowledge that fats should not be consumed right after a workout, specifically in shakes. I like many people put 2 tbsp of natty PB in my shakes, but I was wondering if it has a negative effect on muscle building right after working out?

RhodeHouse
12-11-2007, 03:35 PM
I believe you should stay away from fats, but does it REALLY matter? No. My buddy used to eat a pint of Ben and Jerry's after every workout. Just get carbs in, for sure. But, it really doesn't matter unless you're competing or cutting or something like that.

arnoldsclone
12-11-2007, 04:11 PM
well you're 13-16 % bf so i take it you're cutting so skip the fat, get thae carbs and protein, but make sure to get your fats in though, they are needed to produce test and for a host of other reasons, just try not to get carried away. try and get your fats from olive oil, nuts, peanut butter, and lean meats...........................................................and egg yellows at 2 per day on a cut 4 per day on a bulk.

Outshine
12-11-2007, 04:51 PM
The purpose of a post workout shake is to get nutrients (protein and carbs) into and absorbed by your body as quickly as possible.

Fat slows this process down.

Ideal post workout shake:
Fast protein.
Fast carbs.
No fat.

yankeekd25
12-11-2007, 05:18 PM
well you're 13-16 % bf so i take it you're cutting so skip the fat, get thae carbs and protein, but make sure to get your fats in though, they are needed to produce test and for a host of other reasons, just try not to get carried away. try and get your fats from olive oil, nuts, peanut butter, and lean meats...........................................................and egg yellows at 2 per day on a cut 4 per day on a bulk.

I eat plenty of fats from nuts, olive oil, etc. Actually I am on a bulk right now. Clean bulk to be more specific, taking in around 3600 cals. I guess I am skinny fat lol. I really don't know what my bf% is so I just guesstimated. I was just wondering if it's ok to put in oil/ pb for my shake, but based on the post below yours, I have found my answer.


The purpose of a post workout shake is to get nutrients (protein and carbs) into and absorbed by your body as quickly as possible.

Fat slows this process down.

Ideal post workout shake:
Fast protein.
Fast carbs.
No fat.

I'm using Nitrean protein so don't have to worry about that. As for carbs, what are fast carbs? I throw in a banana, a yogurt, and about half a cup of oats into my shake. Plus I down a protein bar with 20 p/ 20 c as I'm drinking my shake. Is there a certain amount of p/ c I should shoot for? My general shake recipe has the following:
Total: 729
Fat: 13 113 16%
Sat: 0 2 0%
Poly: 0 1 0%
Mono: 0 0 0%
Carbs: 92 339 47%
Fiber: 7 0 0%
Protein: 68 273 38%

Outshine
12-11-2007, 05:31 PM
I'm using Nitrean protein so don't have to worry bout that. As for carbs, what are fast carbs? I throw in a banana, a yogurt, and bout half a cup of oats into my shake. Plus I down a protein bar with 20 p/ 20 c as I'm drinking my shake.

Fast carbs are simple carbs... carbs that are digested quickly. For the most part the only time you want to eat a carb like this is post workout. The opposite is complex carbs, which are carbs that are digested slowly (stuff like oats, beans, and other whole grains). You'd want nearly all of your non-post-workout carb intake for the day to come from complex carbs.

The typical post workout carb of choice is dextrose, which is a type of sugar. It's pretty much as fast as fast can be. Search through the articles Built has written for this site, I'm pretty sure she has one about all things post workout shake related.

BFGUITAR
12-11-2007, 05:48 PM
You can put sucrose in, it doesnt make a huge difference.

Throw some gatorade powder in there, thats a mix of sucrose and glucose.

EDIT: Sucrose=table sugar btw

VikingWarlord
12-11-2007, 06:20 PM
Dextrose allows you to get more carbs in before you want to puke, since it's not as sweet as table sugar.

yankeekd25
12-11-2007, 07:04 PM
You can put sucrose in, it doesnt make a huge difference.

Throw some gatorade powder in there, thats a mix of sucrose and glucose.

EDIT: Sucrose=table sugar btw

I think I am just going to do that then. Sounds easy enough. How much do should I put into a shake? Do most flavors taste good enough with vanilla nitrean?

BFGUITAR
12-11-2007, 07:13 PM
I would put about 30grams of sugar into the mix.

I had red gatorade with vanilla nitrean. A tad clumpy but if ya take it down like a man its all good.

You can use table sugar as well.

yankeekd25
12-11-2007, 07:18 PM
I would put about 30grams of sugar into the mix.

I had red gatorade with vanilla nitrean. A tad clumpy but if ya take it down like a man its all good.

You can use table sugar as well.

Using the Nitrean scoop as a measurement, how much is 30g?

RhodeHouse
12-11-2007, 07:27 PM
If you're gaining weight, get in 100g. You'll feel your body bloat up. That's good post workout. That means your insulin is up and you're body is absorbing everything.

Everything I've read says that carbs are the most important. And, if you do mix protein and carbs in your first PWO shake, make it 4/1 carbs/protein.

But, since you are on a weight gain phase, I'll stick by my original post. It doesn't really matter. EAT something.

Con
12-11-2007, 08:36 PM
The purpose of a post workout shake is to get nutrients (protein and carbs) into and absorbed by your body as quickly as possible.

Fat slows this process down.

Ideal post workout shake:
Fast protein.
Fast carbs.
No fat.

But if he had a sufficient Pre-Wo meal, then he should still be digesting that same meal, making the PWO meal drastically less important.

Have some fat if you'd like.

BFGUITAR
12-11-2007, 08:38 PM
As long as you eat something youll be fine.

As for how much sugar...

Sucrose density is 880 kg/m^3
Thats about 0.88 g/cubic centimeter, or mL

A nitrean scoop is 70 mL.
Therefore one scoop of table sugar is about 60 grams :)

BTW rhodes, youll be proud of me! I had a double cheeseburger, a junior chicken, and a chicken snack wrap as a post workout meal :)

yankeekd25
12-13-2007, 08:16 AM
But if he had a sufficient Pre-Wo meal, then he should still be digesting that same meal, making the PWO meal drastically less important.

Have some fat if you'd like.

Pre-Workout I usually have some oats, throw it in a yogurt, and eat some chicken. Sometimes I have some brown rice or some whole wheat pasta too. Should I be consuming some more simple carbs pre workout? Or just stick with complex?

RhodeHouse
12-13-2007, 09:59 AM
As long as you eat something youll be fine.

As for how much sugar...

Sucrose density is 880 kg/m^3
Thats about 0.88 g/cubic centimeter, or mL

A nitrean scoop is 70 mL.
Therefore one scoop of table sugar is about 60 grams :)

BTW rhodes, youll be proud of me! I had a double cheeseburger, a junior chicken, and a chicken snack wrap as a post workout meal :)

That's what I'm talking about!

TopCat
12-13-2007, 11:35 AM
Pre-Workout I usually have some oats, throw it in a yogurt, and eat some chicken. Sometimes I have some brown rice or some whole wheat pasta too. Should I be consuming some more simple carbs pre workout? Or just stick with complex?

First, are you currently bulking or dieting? Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread but it does make a difference.

Second, define pre-workout for you. Is this 1-4 hours before working out or more like 1 hour or less? I'm guessing that meal is usually in the 2-4 hour range which would be fine. The idea of this meal is to allow for optimal levels of muscle and liver glycogen and blood glucose when you lift.

There are 4 times surrounding training to consider nutrient intakes:
1. pre-workout
2. immediate pre-workout
3. during-workout
4. post-workout.

Regarding post workout nutrition: the idea is to shift the body out of a catabolic state which is a state when protein synthesis is less than protein breakdown. Increases in blood amino acid (AA) levels (protein) helps stimulate protein synthesis with little effect on breakdown and increasing insulin (carbs) vice versa.

yankeekd25
12-13-2007, 12:19 PM
First, are you currently bulking or dieting? Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread but it does make a difference.

Second, define pre-workout for you. Is this 1-4 hours before working out or more like 1 hour or less? I'm guessing that meal is usually in the 2-4 hour range which would be fine. The idea of this meal is to allow for optimal levels of muscle and liver glycogen and blood glucose when you lift.

There are 4 times surrounding training to consider nutrient intakes:
1. pre-workout
2. immediate pre-workout
3. during-workout
4. post-workout.

Regarding post workout nutrition: the idea is to shift the body out of a catabolic state which is a state when protein synthesis is less than protein breakdown. Increases in blood amino acid (AA) levels (protein) helps stimulate protein synthesis with little effect on breakdown and increasing insulin (carbs) vice versa.

Clean bulking. Pre-workout is when I usually eat some kind of protein with some complex carbs. Immediate pre-workout I have some oatmeal and a yogurt. Using what you said, can you give me a good idea of what to eat during the 4 stages you listed? That would help me out a lot.

I just bought some Gatorade powder, and I plan to put some in my shakes. I've read also that milk slows the absorption of nutrients into the bloodstream. I've always used milk in my shakes. Should I just throw water, whey, dextrose, and a banana into a blender and drink up? Or should I use milk and disregard that?

Outshine
12-13-2007, 04:41 PM
But if he had a sufficient Pre-Wo meal, then he should still be digesting that same meal, making the PWO meal drastically less important.

Have some fat if you'd like.

Pre-workout meal or not, he asked about a post workout meal. And, there is a whole bunch of research out there showing the benefits of a protein/carb drink post workout.

Con
12-13-2007, 10:30 PM
Pre-workout meal or not, he asked about a post workout meal. And, there is a whole bunch of research out there showing the benefits of a protein/carb drink post workout.

Pre-Wo affects the importance of a PWO meal...

The carb drink is done on fasted subjects I believe...

TopCat
12-14-2007, 01:16 PM
Using what you said, can you give me a good idea of what to eat during the 4 stages you listed? That would help me out a lot.

Sure.
However, keep in mind this is getting pretty picky and precise. You miss a meal or two because you don't have time... everything is fine and you can still workout and live. Be sure to remember this is about optimizing the body. There is certainly a lot to consider to maximize gains or minimize loses, but be sure to keep it all in perspective.

I agree with other members that it is important to stick with the basics until your ready/dedicated to move on. Optimizing does not mean necessary; it is just about trying to move along faster.


Immediate pre-workout I have some oatmeal and a yogurt.

Immediate pre-workout you should consume some protein and carbohydrates about 30 minutes prior to training. People will list different amounts or ratios. The exact numbers is not something to be all to concerned about but since I am sure people might want a personal opinion: I prefer an equal mix of protein and carbs and usually go at about 0.25g/1lb. My shake is usually whey protein and dextrose. Oatmeal probably isn't the best choice (slowly digesting and the fiber could cause upset stomach) and if you had nothing else a yogurt would get you some sugars although you might consume it earlier since it would take more time to digest (I think?).


But if he had a sufficient Pre-Wo meal, then he should still be digesting that same meal, making the PWO meal drastically less important.

There is some truth to this as some research has found that consuming protein immediately before training might be better than post-workout protein intake in terms of driving protein synthesis. Both pre and post workout meals are important. If you had the choice of one or the other you might choose pre-workout. But how many times have you ran into such a deli ma? Both is better.

During-workout is very similar to immediate pre-workout. Like many of the other members on this site I just sip on a dilute protein/carb mix. I like to actually mix some gatorade powder in with my dextrose for taste.

Post-workout is pretty simple as well. Again continue some protein and carbs and 1-2 hours after or so continue on with normal meals. If you like to use milk in your post shake go for it. Understand that depending on the fat content it might slow things down a bit, but again it is not gonna kill you if it takes another 15-30 minutes. That and as mentioned before depending on what your pre-workout meals looked like how fast your post nutrition get to your blood might not even be that big of a concern.