PDA

View Full Version : My bulk, some interesting experiences



BFGUITAR
12-13-2007, 11:22 AM
Ive been on a bulk for about 4 months now and have had minimal fat gain. When I flex you can still see an outline of my abs, pretty good for 4 months.

My first bulk did not end very well. I lived in res and basically ate whole foods like mad with very little "junk" except for some pizza every so often. I became fat and put on hardly any muscle.

This time, im eating less, eating worse, and have been packing a lot more muscle than I did before. How can I tell? Ive gained amost 15 pounds, bf% didnt seem to change a lot from the abs test, my shirts are getting tighter, im getting stronger, I can see more definition in my arms than before... This may also be because of a different routine and technique, but the fact is im doing better now than I did before. My gains are ridiculous... My total went up 100 pounds in 2 months!!!!!

While my health is probably better off with the whole foods, this is what works for me... A generally unclean bulk of 3-4 meals a day with minimal snacking (except for some fruits and veggies).

RhodeHouse
12-13-2007, 02:18 PM
I love it. If I read correctly, you said you ate worse this time, gained more muscle, and got a lot stronger. Awesome job, dude. Congratulations.

Doesn't some idiot named Rhodes, come on here and advocate a very similar process, and get ripped about it all the time? I heard they said he was dumber than a 5th grader. Absolutely nothing to add to the diet/nutrition section, as well. How wrong was he?

Don't get too caught up in your health. You're not bulking for the rest of your life. Now, you need to get into better shape and maintain everything you gained.

That's really an awesome job. Since it's winter time, you should try to pack on another 15lbs before the spring.

Like I've said in the past, pizza, McDonald's - perfect foods. Fats, carbs, and protein. Everything you need.:thumbup:

Invain
12-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Yeah there's an idiot named rhodes that posts here sometimes. :angel:

Invain
12-13-2007, 02:54 PM
I've honestly noticed a little bit of the same thing. I haven't been on a bulk necessrarily, but since I'm in college now I eat like crap pretty much. However, my bf % hasn't seemed to change very much at all, and I'm still getting a little stronger each week.

BFGUITAR
12-13-2007, 04:15 PM
Its very nice :)
I knew this post would make your proud rhodes lol.

15 pounds before spring? No problem!

RhodeHouse
12-13-2007, 04:26 PM
Its very nice :)
I knew this post would make your proud rhodes lol.

15 pounds before spring? No problem!

You're damn right I'm proud. That's some good work by you. You'll be jacked, all the girls will love you, and all will be right with the world.

brihead301
12-13-2007, 04:30 PM
It's the extra fats I swear. When you try to eat all clean and sh**, it's usually just protien and good carbs. Fat tends to be the least important thing to most peoples' clean bulks. I was the same way. Now, I'm bulking, but I use peanut butter as my extra 1000 calories per day, and my bf% is barely going up at all, but my weight keeps increasing. Fat makes you not get fat. At least that's my personal belief or theory, or whatever. Hell, it works for me.

RhodeHouse
12-13-2007, 04:34 PM
It's the extra fats I swear. When you try to eat all clean and sh**, it's usually just protien and good carbs. Fat tends to be the least important thing to most peoples' clean bulks. I was the same way. Now, I'm bulking, but I use peanut butter as my extra 1000 calories per day, and my bf% is barely going up at all, but my weight keeps increasing. Fat makes you not get fat. At least that's my personal belief or theory, or whatever. Hell, it works for me.

Like Fat Bastard said, "Once you go fat, you'll never go back."

I'm waiting for the diet guru's to come on here and tell you that you're wrong and that it's not, in fact, working for you. I'm psyched to see their empirical evidence to discount your claims of success. This is gonna be good. I'm going to get some fried chicken and Jim Beam and post all night long!

bjohnso
12-14-2007, 10:15 AM
It's the extra fats I swear. When you try to eat all clean and sh**, it's usually just protien and good carbs. Fat tends to be the least important thing to most peoples' clean bulks. I was the same way. Now, I'm bulking, but I use peanut butter as my extra 1000 calories per day, and my bf% is barely going up at all, but my weight keeps increasing. Fat makes you not get fat. At least that's my personal belief or theory, or whatever. Hell, it works for me.

I remember my first bulk - tons and tons of junk, mountains of fat, and I was strong as hell at 230. Now, after my 2nd or 3rd bulk, I'm 230, a lot leaner, and a lot weaker. Go figure.

Rusty
12-14-2007, 11:53 AM
LONG LIVE THE DIRTY BULK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm hitting 250lbs by spring or I'm cutting my nuts off.

berfles
12-14-2007, 12:01 PM
LONG LIVE THE DIRTY BULK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm hitting 250lbs by spring or I'm cutting my nuts off.


Dibs if that goes through.

Guido
12-14-2007, 01:10 PM
Fats are important. I don't think people realize how much so. Still, don't underestimate how much a different program might have affected it, too. It's probably a combination of both. But hey, if it's working keep doing it!

TopCat
12-14-2007, 01:58 PM
It's the extra fats I swear. When you try to eat all clean and sh**, it's usually just protien and good carbs. Fat tends to be the least important thing to most peoples' clean bulks.

That was just a newbie mistake leaving out fats that I did my first bulk as well.

Also I've been kind of curious about how people would explain the differences of a dirty vs. clean bulk. To most people I believe it is an issue of how 'dirty' or processed your food is vs unprocessed whole foods. I think a better way to look at it is how far over your maintenance calories you are. For me a clean bulk is very controlled 100-300 calorie excess while someone on a dirty bulk would be 500+ over maintenance.

Holto
12-14-2007, 02:12 PM
Ive been on a bulk for about 4 months now and have had minimal fat gain. When I flex you can still see an outline of my abs, pretty good for 4 months.

My first bulk did not end very well. I lived in res and basically ate whole foods like mad with very little "junk" except for some pizza every so often. I became fat and put on hardly any muscle.

This time, im eating less, eating worse, and have been packing a lot more muscle than I did before. How can I tell? Ive gained amost 15 pounds, bf% didnt seem to change a lot from the abs test, my shirts are getting tighter, im getting stronger, I can see more definition in my arms than before... This may also be because of a different routine and technique, but the fact is im doing better now than I did before. My gains are ridiculous... My total went up 100 pounds in 2 months!!!!!

While my health is probably better off with the whole foods, this is what works for me... A generally unclean bulk of 3-4 meals a day with minimal snacking (except for some fruits and veggies).

What were your daily calories for each bulk?

Con
12-14-2007, 03:55 PM
Glad everything is working out for you Guitar.

Id like to say that I am enjoying the simplicity of my training right now. The more I read, the more I see how similar the ideas behind training are.

Some people(I think I may also) have contrasted the viewpoints of Lyle and Rhodes. Now that I am reading more of Lyle's opinions on things, the more similarities I see in the advice of Rhodes. Presentation can simply alter how things are perceived.


What were your daily calories for each bulk?

While thats important, I think it may be the training portion that is more important. He said he was eating less, but maybe his training isnt retarted and hes focusing on overload.

Once again, congratz BFguitar.

BFGUITAR
12-14-2007, 09:28 PM
Thanks guys.

I dont count cals but I would estimate around 3300.

Dirty bulk means you dont eat healty foods.

McIrish
12-15-2007, 09:05 AM
I hate to plya devil's advocate here, Guitar, but how do you know you were getting enough calories to support growth during your clean bulk? I agree that it's easier to do while on a dirty bulk...

BFGUITAR
12-15-2007, 09:08 AM
I hate to plya devil's advocate here, Guitar, but how do you know you were getting enough calories to support growth during your clean bulk? I agree that it's easier to do while on a dirty bulk...

Because I gained weight and I counted my calories when I did. I wasnt consistent with counting but I did gain weight faster then than now.

RhodeHouse
12-15-2007, 10:13 PM
Just know, I am sitting back and enjoying life.

McIrish
12-16-2007, 08:41 AM
Just know, I am sitting back and enjoying life.

Hey Rhodes, I mean this in the spirit of frank discussion and this is in no way some sort of underhanded attack... I'm honestly curious - how long do you plan to eat like that for? I think it is objectively less sustainable for a long period of time than is eating a little more sensibly, but for the majority of the population, consuming ice cream/fried chicken/baconators/etc. is probably not a long-term sustainable way to eat. What is your plan and what are your goals, if you don't mind my asking?

Stumprrp
12-16-2007, 08:53 AM
this is true, my first bulk, from 195-220, i did it in 2-3 months and i ate like crap, but i ate tons of food, probably 5000 calories a day, and i was using very intense routines such as 20 rep squats and some other heavy bodybuilding type training, until i switched over to PL the size gains stopped but the strength went nuts.

samadhi_smiles
12-16-2007, 09:06 AM
I bet you are generally bigger than your first bulk now. I wonder how much more efficient your body has gotten at metabolizing and synthesizing new protein (after all you probably have more muscle and they are always hungry).

You should try another bulk next winter, this time all clean, with plenty of healthy fats: olive oils, flax seed oils, natty peanut butter, nuts of all kinds (a peanut is not a nut!). Healthy meats: lean red meat, FISH, chicken. And whole grain carbs. And tons and tons of vegetables (a head of brocoli a day!).

I bet you do better than you're doing now!

Fuzzy
12-16-2007, 09:10 AM
Hey Rhodes, I mean this in the spirit of frank discussion and this is in no way some sort of underhanded attack... I'm honestly curious - how long do you plan to eat like that for? I think it is objectively less sustainable for a long period of time than is eating a little more sensibly, but for the majority of the population, consuming ice cream/fried chicken/baconators/etc. is probably not a long-term sustainable way to eat. What is your plan and what are your goals, if you don't mind my asking?


Total 3000, eat more baconators then the world combined, and start a charity with Mcdonalds for the starving pencil necks out there

Yup.... sounds about right.

BFGUITAR
12-16-2007, 10:08 AM
I bet you are generally bigger than your first bulk now. I wonder how much more efficient your body has gotten at metabolizing and synthesizing new protein (after all you probably have more muscle and they are always hungry).

You should try another bulk next winter, this time all clean, with plenty of healthy fats: olive oils, flax seed oils, natty peanut butter, nuts of all kinds (a peanut is not a nut!). Healthy meats: lean red meat, FISH, chicken. And whole grain carbs. And tons and tons of vegetables (a head of brocoli a day!).

I bet you do better than you're doing now!

I did that before. But I ate way to much. This just shows that quantity is more important than quality when it comes to gaining weight, at least for me.

If I ate clean and less, chances are I would be better off than I am now, but I have yet to try that.

samadhi_smiles
12-16-2007, 11:19 AM
well. surely if you eat only 2,000 calories of 'clean' foods you won't gain mass (fat or LBM!). But, that should go without saying.

There are nutrient dense foods that will help you get to whatever you need to get to calorie wise, yet are still healthy.

Its the difference between getting all your fats from saturated/hydrogenated sources and 'clean' sources (flax, olives, etc).

Con
12-16-2007, 03:07 PM
I did that before. But I ate way to much. This just shows that quantity is more important than quality when it comes to gaining weight, at least for me.

If I ate clean and less, chances are I would be better off than I am now, but I have yet to try that.

Think this right here is the take home message.

i honestly envy you tho. If I could control my eating with a crappy food selection, I would. As I am a big eater, I need to keep it clean so I dont eat my family out of house and home.

BFGUITAR
12-16-2007, 03:40 PM
Lol dont get me wrong, im a big eater as well. Im always hungry and could eat 5000+ calories if I so desired. I seem to occupy myself pretty well to prevent that.

RhodeHouse
12-16-2007, 04:45 PM
Hey Rhodes, I mean this in the spirit of frank discussion and this is in no way some sort of underhanded attack... I'm honestly curious - how long do you plan to eat like that for? I think it is objectively less sustainable for a long period of time than is eating a little more sensibly, but for the majority of the population, consuming ice cream/fried chicken/baconators/etc. is probably not a long-term sustainable way to eat. What is your plan and what are your goals, if you don't mind my asking?

Well, since you know how I eat on a day to day basis, why don't you tell me? I've posted my daily food when I gain weight. I eat very very well. Very little bad food. If it means eating crappy food or missing a meal, I'll eat crappy food. What I post are ideas when you have trouble gaining weight.

A lot of you guys talk about clean/dirty bulking. I think you have vastly different concepts of what clean and dirty means.

My goal is to be big so I can be strong. Since it's worked for 32 years, don't tell me I should clean things up and see what happens. I know what happens.

As for long-term, if you're in shape, you can eat whatever you want. Since I don't eat badly at all, I'll eat this way until I die. The only thing that will probably change is that I won't eat as much. I am curious to see what you think I eat on a day to day basis.

BFGUITAR
12-16-2007, 07:44 PM
Rhodes doesn't eat food... he gets his nutrients through baconaters intravenously while he sleeps.

RhodeHouse
12-16-2007, 07:53 PM
Never had one. I heard they suck, from a reliable source.

Built
12-16-2007, 07:55 PM
I'll never understand the whole "clean" and "dirty" thing with food.

If your protein and fat are sufficient, you're getting enough fibre and your calories are sufficient to support the rate of growth (or loss) you require, who cares what the hell your food choices are?

If you can do it all without tracking, so much the better.

Fuzzy
12-17-2007, 02:31 AM
I'll never understand the whole "clean" and "dirty" thing with food.

If your protein and fat are sufficient, you're getting enough fibre and your calories are sufficient to support the rate of growth (or loss) you require, who cares what the hell your food choices are?

If you can do it all without tracking, so much the better.

Ya know, that just makes too much sense to be true.

Built
12-17-2007, 02:32 AM
Yes, well, the "without tracking" part is a bit of a pipe dream for me, personally. But I live by the rest of it.

sharkall2003
12-17-2007, 06:58 AM
Yes, well, the "without tracking" part is a bit of a pipe dream for me, personally. But I live by the rest of it.

I'm not a fan of preservatives and the one hundred other ingredients that are not naturally made in nature that are found in products.

Rusty
12-17-2007, 07:26 AM
Never had one. I heard they suck, from a reliable source.

They're not all that they're cracked up to be. They're usually soggy pieces of greasy ****. But they're an easy 860 calories.

BFGUITAR
12-17-2007, 07:33 AM
I'm not a fan of preservatives and the one hundred other ingredients that are not naturally made in nature that are found in products.

Most of the ingredients you speak of really arent that horrible. Of course there are some you want to stay away from but most of them break down into things we can easily metabolize. Im by no means saying its good for you, but its not like your sucking down Arsenic.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 08:03 AM
I enjoy a good old arsneic and anthrax sandwich with BBQ sauce every now and again.

samadhi_smiles
12-17-2007, 08:44 AM
preservatives, hydrogenated oils, dyes, WAY too much saturated fats, unecessarily high glycemic index carbs, very little if any fiber, high sodium, low vitamins/minerals, etc etc etc.

I just have the crazy idea that we are not built to eat foods such as hostess cupcakes and egg mcmuffins. I also have the experience to know that I feel 100% better when I eat 'clean' foods.

I'm actually a little surprised at your comments, Built.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 08:55 AM
I'm actually a little surprised at your comments, Built.

Me too. I thought she ate all clean foods.

samadhi_smiles
12-17-2007, 09:00 AM
Yes, it definitely thwarts my plans to capture and eat her. :nod:

brihead301
12-17-2007, 09:05 AM
lol.

Holto
12-17-2007, 11:45 AM
Most people don't know what it feels like to eat clean. For them, there is no known advantage of doing it.

smalls
12-17-2007, 12:09 PM
Me too. I thought she ate all clean foods.

She posts her diet, she does eat clean. She just understands that from a muscle/strength building perspective it's not going to matter much considered protein and nutrients are there. Hope I'm not speaking out of place for her.

There are many health benefits that can come from choosing better nutrient sources even if cals are the same (at least that's what my blood tests say for me, personally, everyone differs slightly) So I obviously eat clean because purple skin, and busting blood vessels in my eyes is not the best feeling in the world. Also, I prefer not to feel like a lazy, pathetic, uneducated git, like this rest of society.

We have all had this discussion before and I think most people understand that mcdonalds can pack on the muscle, but can have adverse effects that other food choices probably wont.




If it means eating crappy food or missing a meal, I'll eat crappy food.


This I have always agreed with 100%. Every day should be one step closer to your goal.

Slim Schaedle
12-17-2007, 12:09 PM
Most people don't know what it feels like to eat clean. For them, there is no known advantage of doing it.

I have to agree.

I have done it both ways.

I just feel good physically when the foods are good with the inclusion of fruits, etc.

Don't have to worry as much about high blood pressure, out of wack cholesterol levels....the list goes on and on.


I am a pretty selfish guy, but I would also like to make good choices that will impact my children, if I have any.

Slim Schaedle
12-17-2007, 12:18 PM
So I obviously eat clean because purple skin, and busting blood vessels in my eyes is not the best feeling in the world. Also, I prefer not to feel like a lazy, pathetic, uneducated git, like this rest of society.

We have all had this discussion before and I think most people understand that mcdonalds can pack on the muscle, but can have adverse effects that other food choices probably wont.

I agree with this 100% as well.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 12:34 PM
To me, it always just made more sense to eat "right" while trying to pack on muscular weight. By eating right, I just mean eating good, whole foods most of the time - chicken, rice, oatmeal, milk, etc... Pizza, cheesesteaks, fast food, ice cream, etc... are okay too, but in moderation.

It just makes sense that the healthier foods would help your body to run more efficiently, and therefore the muscle-building process would work better and faster since everything else would be working better (blood flow, heart rate, etc...).

I honestly don't really know if that's true or not, but it just seems to make sense that there's more to building the maximum amount of muscle in the shortest amount of time then just simply caloric intake, and a certain amount of protien, fats, and carbs each day. That's just why I do it, not to get a 6-pack, but to pack on muscular weight as quickly as possible. After I get done lifting it just seems better to drink a shake made of milk, whey, peanut butter and bananas rather then to eat 2 big macs, fries, and a coke. It just seems that my muscles would thank me for giving them the healthy stuff right after I got done beating the s*** out of them.

Then again. If you wanna gain weight, the easiest way is to eat the calorie-dense stuff. I don't really have a problem gaining weight with healthy stuff though - Peanut butter is an amazing thing. I always find a way to get more calories once I stop gaining. If I do find that I am unable to gain weight anymore, I may very well start eating Taco Bell 3 times a day.

RhodeHouse
12-17-2007, 12:49 PM
preservatives, hydrogenated oils, dyes, WAY too much saturated fats, unecessarily high glycemic index carbs, very little if any fiber, high sodium, low vitamins/minerals, etc etc etc.

I just have the crazy idea that we are not built to eat foods such as hostess cupcakes and egg mcmuffins. I also have the experience to know that I feel 100% better when I eat 'clean' foods.

I'm actually a little surprised at your comments, Built.

Dude, Hostess cupcakes and egg McMuffins are God's food.

I'll agree that eating a little better makes me feel better as well. However, adding 2 days of riding the bike for 20 minutes has done the same as eating cleaner, for me. I'm also an anorexic 300lbs on the dot, today, so that may be part of it.

I'm all for eating well, but I think you guys will find when you pack on some appreciable size and muscle, that eating "healthy" is not always an option. Hopefully for you guys, your goals don't have you getting too heavy (although that's something I'll never understand).

After the nuclear winter, there will be 3 things left:

1. Hostess Cupcakes
2. Cockroaches
3. ME!

Preservatives, bad? I think not.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 01:18 PM
I'm a HUGE fan of sausage egg mcmuffins and sausage McGriddles (I'd rather have BK over Mickey D's lunch though). As a matter of fact, if I had a choice between having sex with Pamela Anderson 12 times but resulting in me never being allowed to have a sausage egg mcmuffin again, or only having sex with Pam 11 times and still being allowed to eat sausage egg mcmuffins whenever I want....Well I'd have to go with the second option. That's how much I like those F***ers.

RhodeHouse
12-17-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm a HUGE fan of sausage egg mcmuffins and sausage McGriddles (I'd rather have BK over Mickey D's lunch though). As a matter of fact, if I had a choice between having sex with Pamela Anderson 12 times but resulting in me never being allowed to have a sausage egg mcmuffin again, or only having sex with Pam 11 times and still being allowed to eat sausage egg mcmuffins whenever I want....Well I'd have to go with the second option. That's how much I like those F***ers.

Pam Anderson is still hot! I'd give up McD's for her.

brihead301
12-17-2007, 01:24 PM
Ya I know, those two options were hard to choose from, but after careful consideration, I decided that the second choice was more for me.

Built
12-18-2007, 09:22 AM
preservatives, hydrogenated oils, dyes, WAY too much saturated fats, unecessarily high glycemic index carbs, very little if any fiber, high sodium, low vitamins/minerals, etc etc etc.

I just have the crazy idea that we are not built to eat foods such as hostess cupcakes and egg mcmuffins. I also have the experience to know that I feel 100% better when I eat 'clean' foods.

I'm actually a little surprised at your comments, Built.

Really? Which part? The part about ensuring sufficient fat and protein? The part about ensuring adequate fibre? Or the part about ensuring calories are dialed in to your desired weight?

I set up my diet on fitday so I get at least 160g protein and no lower than 60g fat (usually both are higher). I try to make most of my fats come from monos when I go over 60g. I aim to get at least 25g of fibre (from food, not supplements) every day.

YOU try doing all that on 2000 calories on an all-junk food diet.

In practice, my usual diet is pretty "clean" - but it's an artifact of constrained optimization, not my goal from the start. If I have room in those calories for chocolate or a piece of cake, trust me, it's where I spend discretionary calories.


Me too. I thought she ate all clean foods.

<Wipes away cookie crumbs>

Why do people always think this? I'm all about what it turns into when I break it down into it's base components. If it works out on fitday, that's what I eat. I don't think my body will respond any worse if my choices happen to TASTE good!


Yes, it definitely thwarts my plans to capture and eat her. :nod:

I'd be stringy. Pick a young plump one for eating. Something corn-fed.


She posts her diet, she does eat clean. She just understands that from a muscle/strength building perspective it's not going to matter much considered protein and nutrients are there. Hope I'm not speaking out of place for her.

I eat clean-ish. Sorta clean. Mostly clean, kinda. With donuts. :D

samadhi_smiles
12-18-2007, 09:34 AM
gotcha, Built. Yours is a better way to approach diet, I believe. Makes more sense at least and ensures getting macros is number one priority (which it certainly should be).

Itsnotaboutme
12-18-2007, 08:38 PM
Like Fat Bastard said, "Once you go fat, you'll never go back."

I'm waiting for the diet guru's to come on here and tell you that you're wrong and that it's not, in fact, working for you. I'm psyched to see their empirical evidence to discount your claims of success. This is gonna be good. I'm going to get some fried chicken and Jim Beam and post all night long!

He is wrong!....You happy yet?

Lol by far I am not a health guru. :omg:

But I'm trying my best :read: