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View Full Version : Bulking when your fat to start with?



Itsnotaboutme
12-18-2007, 03:26 PM
Is bulking a good idea when your a little chubby to begin with? I'm 210lbs at the time of posting. My goal is to gain muscle but I don't want to be extremely fat. If it helps I'm 16 and 6ft tall. Thanks for your help!

krboyd7
12-18-2007, 03:36 PM
You have to make the decision!

Cut and not be happy with your muscle mass

OR

Put on some mass and some more fat, and at the end cut and maybe feel happier?

Sorry

samadhi_smiles
12-18-2007, 03:39 PM
I believe that if you start a bit lean your body will better be able to synthesize muscle than if you are trying to gain while fat. *nutrition partioning*

I think you should get into a healthy shape first and then really go at adding lean body mass.

I think the chances for becoming discouraged doing it the other way around are high, depending on your personality.

Just my opinion.

Outshine
12-18-2007, 04:14 PM
I believe that if you start a bit lean your body will better be able to synthesize muscle than if you are trying to gain while fat. *nutrition partioning*

I think you should get into a healthy shape first and then really go at adding lean body mass.

I think the chances for becoming discouraged doing it the other way around are high, depending on your personality.

Just my opinion.

Pretty much. The fatter you start bulking at, the more likely your fat-to-muscle gaining ratio is going to suck. The leaner you are to start, the opposite happens.

Another thing to consider is whether or not you are a complete beginner? If you are, then congrats... because for a certain period of time you can both lose significant fat and gain significant muscle at the same time. Therefore, as a beginner, you shouldn't bulk or cut. Just eat right, near maintenance or slightly lower, and train your ass off using a quality program.

dbx
12-18-2007, 05:01 PM
If he already has a fair amount of body fat can he not maintain that weight and lift heavy to build muscle for awhile? I'd think that muscle repair & growth would take priority over excess body fat when it comes to calorie & nutrient distribution.

Slim Schaedle
12-18-2007, 05:07 PM
The leaner you are to start, the opposite happens.

I'm not sure I would say the opposite happens.

While a dieted down genetically fat person would start off leaner, therefore having less fat mass, they are going to have a significantly more difficult time keeping their muscle/fat ratio in check while bulking.


But yes, I agree with dieting down to maybe 10% and starting to go back up from there.

Unreal
12-18-2007, 06:58 PM
Diet down, enjoy your newbie gains, and just focus on eating clean and sticking to a solid routine. Newbies IMO shouldn't worry about cutting or bulking.

Itsnotaboutme
12-18-2007, 07:11 PM
I'm not sure I would say the opposite happens.

While a dieted down genetically fat person would start off leaner, therefore having less fat mass, they are going to have a significantly more difficult time keeping their muscle/fat ratio in check while bulking.


But yes, I agree with dieting down to maybe 10% and starting to go back up from there.

Its not genetics. My mom was a gymnast and my dad was a wrestler. Both were in good shape. The genes are on my side its just I didn't watch what I ate. I would binge on crap and I got really big. I started lifting because of sports, and started to run and some of that came off. Overall it has been really hard to get it to come off. Now my coach wants me to get stronger because he wants me on the offensive line this season.

Pretty much I pitch in baseball and I play center in football.

As for getting discouraged. I think I can handle it. I have been picked on since the 3rd grade because of me being big so it really doesn't bother me to much anymore.

What I'm worried about is not being able to gain strength if I cut.

By the way I'm not like really fat. I have some excess fat. Actually here look at this

This is early november I think. My body has changed alittle. My pecs now stick out some more and my tummy has gotten a little bit smaller.

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v158/182/93/637884295/n637884295_278036_5455.jpg

This is me in september
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v135/182/93/637884295/n637884295_216303_9250.jpg

Itsnotaboutme
12-18-2007, 07:15 PM
Diet down, enjoy your newbie gains, and just focus on eating clean and sticking to a solid routine. Newbies IMO shouldn't worry about cutting or bulking.

Hehe is 40lbs on my bench in a month count as a newbie gain?

On a more serious note. What your saying is because I don't have serious muscle yet that I will go up pretty fast on my maxes.

Unreal
12-18-2007, 07:39 PM
When I started I was 300+lbs, super fat, and just concentrated on losing weight. My lifts constantly have gone up. Maybe not as fast as if I was overeating, but I was tired of being fat. You will still progress as long as you don't go too crazy with low cals. Just eat a solid slight deficit diet and lift hard and heavy.

Itsnotaboutme
12-18-2007, 08:29 PM
When I started I was 300+lbs, super fat, and just concentrated on losing weight. My lifts constantly have gone up. Maybe not as fast as if I was overeating, but I was tired of being fat. You will still progress as long as you don't go too crazy with low cals. Just eat a solid slight deficit diet and lift hard and heavy.

Yeh there is no way I'm going crazy. I'm 16 I don't want to mess with my growing and things like that. I'll probably start about a 300 calorie deficit so I can cut off the flab on my inner thighs and around my stomach. There is not to terribly much, but enough to go :(

On the topic of a deficit can someone tell me how to find my mantinence?

Holto
12-18-2007, 08:37 PM
On the topic of a deficit can someone tell me how to find my mantinence?

It can only be observed. You need to track it at a time when you are maintaining weight. Meaning in you eat 2000 cals for 2 weeks, and maintain weight, it's safe to say that is your maintenance.

Your off to one hell of a good start with your attitude and the questions you are asking.

Personally I'd like to see you drop a good 20lbs and then maintain for a while, possibly even do a very short, very slow bulk. Perhaps continue in intervals like that. Drop 20, gain 10, etc.

Itsnotaboutme
12-18-2007, 08:51 PM
It can only be observed. You need to track it at a time when you are maintaining weight. Meaning in you eat 2000 cals for 2 weeks, and maintain weight, it's safe to say that is your maintenance.

Your off to one hell of a good start with your attitude and the questions you are asking.

Personally I'd like to see you drop a good 20lbs and then maintain for a while, possibly even do a very short, very slow bulk. Perhaps continue in intervals like that. Drop 20, gain 10, etc.

Well okay, I hit the 200 mark in the 8th grade (I hit it like a freakin bat out of hell. I was sneaking things like donuts and crap. It was a bad time) or so and it has stayed there. I'm currently in the 10th grade. I am 210 at the time of posting. My weight kind of oscilates between 205-210. It will go up then down and back up maxing at about 210.5. I have never really counted calories, but I think I will start keeping a notebook so I can find out.

In that notebook what kind of things are helpful to track? Obviously you have calories, but should I track things like fats and carbs and such?

About the posting, it helps to think your questions through rather then shooting off some flippant question that makes no sense.

Con
12-19-2007, 09:03 AM
Your situation is strikingly similar to mine.

I hit 200 pounds after dieting to 168...in 30 days. You can safely say I was more than sneaking a "few" extra snacks.

The honest advice I would give, after going through many pitfalls from my decisions, is learn to lift heavy and consistently. I understand the want to look better, but as you have admitted, you are not phased by being made fun of. I would not track calories, but make healthier food choices.

Also, since you are in football, you should get plenty of exercise and should be eating to support your workload. A basic routine(possibly with some advice from your coach) and non-retarted diet(not perfect BBing breakdown type of things) should have you working towards multiple goals without going crazy.

Just my opinion, based on my experiences with a similar start. Good luck.

Holto
12-19-2007, 09:16 AM
Should I track things like fats and carbs and such?

I think most here would agree that www.fitday.com is the shiznit. Its free and it works well. Clickity clack and it's all there.

arnoldsclone
12-19-2007, 10:47 AM
honestly original poster= you need all the size you can get for playing center in football, i'd say you want to be at LEAST 250-270 lbs (300-320 ideally), i would start a clean BULK, meaning eat alot of food but have it mainly be healthy foods, i.e. tuna (30 grams protein per can!), lowfat cottage cheese (14 grams protein per serving!), fish, eggs, milk, peanut butter, whole grains, vegetables, fruits, lean red meats, chicken breast......i would start eating 2500 cals-3000 cals daily and get about 250 grams of protein in.....you may want to add creatine and whey protein into the mix as well, basically as your chest and arms and shoulders and back baloon you won't care about the gut too much lol and you'll start to look more "fit"!

i whent from 290 lbs down to 207 from 05- 06, i know your pain.

i also played semi pro football and i was a nose tackle at 250 lbs......i wish i was 290 lbs again to play that position lol!

search the baby got back program on here, it's an awesome one and would really build you completely for football......

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 07:00 AM
yeah. you can still gain muscle even while losing fat if you're starting out in this game. I think you can do a very nice body recomposition right now where you're at if you lock down your diet and hit the weights hard.

get stronger, get leaner, get faster.

Check out Mark Rippetoe's routine: "Starting Strength" - freaking amazing program.

you'll go far if you have determination. Good luck bro.