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RhodeHouse
12-19-2007, 08:58 PM
You want discussion - here it is. Enlighten me, oh genius of nutrition and training.

This is what I ate probably 95% of the time when I trained for my last meet.

Breakfast
-yogurt w/ granola
-70g protein shake w/ chocolate milk
-multi-vitamin
-heart health tabs
-liver health tabs
-joint health tabs
-BP and cholesterol tabs

Real Breakfast
-3 eggs
-1 hamsteak
-1-2 english muffins w/ Smart Balance

Snack
-same shake as above

Lunch
-8oz of ground beef, chicken, or pork
-1 1/2 servings of rice, potatoes, or pasta

Snack
-same shake

Dinner
-same as lunch

Bedtime
-same shake
-10g of fish oil tabs and 1 aspirin

*1x per week I would eat whatever I felt like instead of my normal dinner
*Sundays were my days of very little eating (2-3 meals)
* I slept 6-8 hours per night

I drank between 3/4 and a gallon of fluids per day. All fluids had calories in them

If it wasn't for a bad set-up, I would have officially squatted 1000lbs (I stood up with it), benched 550, and pulled 725. With my 930 squat, I officially have a 2205 total.

Now, you tell me how I can improve upon that. You wanna discuss, let's do it. My goal is to squat 1025, bench 600, and pull in the high 7's, maybe give a run at 800, at a bodyweight of 310-315.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 07:08 AM
daaaayyuuumn those are some beastly numbers

do you not eat any vegetables?

RedSpikeyThing
12-20-2007, 07:36 AM
Here's the thing Rhodes. You talk about eating crap all the time and try to defend eating crap, then you post your diet and it's actually not full of crap. So besides being hypocritical, what is there to discuss?

Sensei
12-20-2007, 07:50 AM
Here's the thing Rhodes. You talk about eating crap all the time and try to defend eating crap, then you post your diet and it's actually not full of crap. So besides being hypocritical, what is there to discuss?You know, if you have nothing constructive to say, kindly butt-the-****-out.

The point Rhodes and I keep trying to make that no one seems to get is you will likely gain a lot more training your ass off and eating A LOT vs. training your ass off and trying to eat something approximately maintenance + 500 Kcals. As I keep saying over and over and over again, most kids that come to me desperate to put on muscle are already training hard enough and spend plenty of money on supplements... but they don't eat enough. When they stop counting calories and just eat a lot more (and a lot more good food), somehow, magically, they start putting on weight. Read and reread The Big Boy's Menu Plan thread with an open mind and ignore all the naysayer comments - you might get it then.

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 07:55 AM
Spikey- Rhodes has never said to eat crap all the time. He's said, in quite a few different places, that if he misses a meal, he'll grab something from wherever instead of missing the meal. He's never said that he eats **** on a continuous basis.

garjagan
12-20-2007, 07:57 AM
I read all of the thread this was related to. It seems Halto has one of those self-rightious streaks, he pointed out an error in a provocative way, causing a whole **** storm of cirular arguments. But when I think of Rhodes' stance and cause, I think of this quote from Theodore Roosevelt:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly.."

Rhodes, in my opinion, you needent have lowered yourself to arguing with the dude.

RedSpikeyThing
12-20-2007, 07:58 AM
EDIT: I've got some reading to do because apparently I missed what this thread is about.

sharkall2003
12-20-2007, 08:37 AM
You know, if you have nothing constructive to say, kindly butt-the-****-out.

The point Rhodes and I keep trying to make that no one seems to get is you will likely gain a lot more training your ass off and eating A LOT vs. training your ass off and trying to eat something approximately maintenance + 500 Kcals. As I keep saying over and over and over again, most kids that come to me desperate to put on muscle are already training hard enough and spend plenty of money on supplements... but they don't eat enough. When they stop counting calories and just eat a lot more (and a lot more good food), somehow, magically, they start putting on weight. Read and reread The Big Boy's Menu Plan thread with an open mind and ignore all the naysayer comments - you might get it then.

I couldn't agree more. I haven't tracked calories in a long while (since August) and I'm doing great. I eat good clean foods, and lots of them. I do cardio, and I lift as hard as I can for that day. My gains have been much better. Everyone can continue their maintenance+500cals approach, but we will see who gets to the finish line first.

Now don't get me wrong, I do have an idea of how many calories I take in, but if I think I have had a little too much, I just increase my cardio to 45 minutes, or whatever I feel like.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 08:38 AM
I have been eating a ****-ton and ****ting out a ****-ton these last two months and wow, I've been packing on the weight. Rhodes is right if his point is that you should forget maintanence cals and all that BS and just freakin tie on the feedsack. It is working for me and I used to consider myself a 'hard-gainer' (everybody is a hard-gainer when they eat ~2k cals a day!).

I just eat, eat, eat all day long. The muscle I am putting on is continuing to spike my metabolism higher and higher, its a crazy fun cycle to be on! :)

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 08:40 AM
oh ps, the concept of maintenance cals become meaningless when you are constantly adding muscle and needing more and more food to sustain your growth.

HahnB
12-20-2007, 09:00 AM
If that's your diet, your posts are EXTREMELY misleading. Based on your posts, you could just as easily say you advocate eating all crap, or you advocate eating crap once in a while-it's not clear which stance you're taking. Actually, if you were to read all of your posts on diet, it would be pretty clear that you're advocating a diet which consists primarily of unhealthy food-anyone that argues with that is just denying the truth because I've read most of your posts. If this isn't your message, I apologize, but your posts are clearly leaning in that direction.


I think when you post diet advice you need to be more specific and clear up that the majority of your diet should be as healthy as possible-if Chubrock is right then your posts should reflect that.

Holto
12-20-2007, 09:16 AM
Rhodes, in my opinion, you needent have lowered yourself to arguing with the dude.

It would take him years of reading to be able to argue with me.

sharkall2003
12-20-2007, 09:27 AM
It would take him years of reading to be able to argue with me.

I'm not arguing against you, but how far have your scientific techniques taken YOU?

Holto
12-20-2007, 09:27 AM
Now, you tell me how I can improve upon that.

As far as your lifting goals I think your diet is spot on. In terms of health I'd like to see some more phytonutrients in there.

Not sure what you think this proves.


You wanna discuss, let's do it.

Sure, ask away!

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 09:28 AM
It would take him years of reading to be able to argue with me.


You may have more book knowledge than Rhodes, but I'm starting to wonder what all you have done with it. What have you done with all that knowledge?

Holto
12-20-2007, 09:28 AM
I'm not arguing against you, but how far have your scientific techniques taken YOU?

275.

Holto
12-20-2007, 09:29 AM
You may have more book knowledge than Rhodes, but I'm starting to wonder what all you have done with it. What have you done with all that knowledge?

I bulked to 275 and cut to 193. Bulked back to 260 and cut to 230.

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 09:31 AM
I bulked to 275 and cut to 193. Bulked back to 260 and cut to 230.

How'd all that work out? Any pics? Any comps or meets?

Holto
12-20-2007, 09:36 AM
How'd all that work out? Any pics? Any comps or meets?

I haven't taken pics in over 10 years. I used to do it to track progress but training and eating the way I do has jut become a lifestyle for me now.

I don't have any intentions of competing. I'm currently cutting to below 200 (to become a woman) because I miss playing basketball.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 09:39 AM
Chubrock, I think you are obfuscating the matter at hand. There are three separate and orthogonal issues here as far as I see it. One, Rhodes specific diet and training regimen. Two, how can 'scientific knowledge' inform Rhodes (as a representative of the 'experience pwns all' school of thought). And three, whether or not Holto has put his knowledge to good use (contingent with the fact that he has good genetics).

What is the purpose of intertwining these three separate discussions into one? What is YOUR purpose for interjecting and attempting to discredit Holto?

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 09:41 AM
Here's the thing Rhodes. You talk about eating crap all the time and try to defend eating crap, then you post your diet and it's actually not full of crap. So besides being hypocritical, what is there to discuss?

First of all, I've only said eat crap if you have trouble gaining weight. Before this, I ate McDonalds everyday for about 3 months to help me gain weight. I've NEVER said eat it all the time. I've ALWAYS said, it's a tool, if you run into problems gaining. Just like everyone else, read my stuff and take it for exactly what I say. Don't make assumptions, like everybody else. If you guys actually read what I said about bad food, you'd understand. You're just too busy trying to tear my ideas apart that you read what you want to read.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 09:43 AM
I read all of the thread this was related to. It seems Halto has one of those self-rightious streaks, he pointed out an error in a provocative way, causing a whole **** storm of cirular arguments. But when I think of Rhodes' stance and cause, I think of this quote from Theodore Roosevelt:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly.."

Rhodes, in my opinion, you needent have lowered yourself to arguing with the dude.

Wow dude, Teddy R to the rescue. I appreciate it. You're probably 100% right about that.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 09:46 AM
If that's your diet, your posts are EXTREMELY misleading. Based on your posts, you could just as easily say you advocate eating all crap, or you advocate eating crap once in a while-it's not clear which stance you're taking. Actually, if you were to read all of your posts on diet, it would be pretty clear that you're advocating a diet which consists primarily of unhealthy food-anyone that argues with that is just denying the truth because I've read most of your posts. If this isn't your message, I apologize, but your posts are clearly leaning in that direction.


I think when you post diet advice you need to be more specific and clear up that the majority of your diet should be as healthy as possible-if Chubrock is right then your posts should reflect that.

I'll agree with you on those points. In my over-simplification of EVERYTHING, I see how I get caught up not being terribly clear when i advocate bad foods. My bad.

RedSpikeyThing
12-20-2007, 09:49 AM
First of all, I've only said eat crap if you have trouble gaining weight. Before this, I ate McDonalds everyday for about 3 months to help me gain weight. I've NEVER said eat it all the time. I've ALWAYS said, it's a tool, if you run into problems gaining. Just like everyone else, read my stuff and take it for exactly what I say. Don't make assumptions, like everybody else. If you guys actually read what I said about bad food, you'd understand.
I understand now that you've cleared it up, but before it didn't see that way. And apparently I'm not the only one who read this.


You're just too busy trying to tear my ideas apart that you read what you want to read.
Chill, I'm not attacking you. I respect you and your accomplishments. I like reading your posts and finding out what top athletes do to set themselves apart from everyone else. I don't know enough about health and nutrition to actually know "what I want to read."

RedSpikeyThing
12-20-2007, 09:50 AM
I'll agree with you on those points. In my over-simplification of EVERYTHING, I see how I get caught up not being terribly clear when i advocate bad foods. My bad.

This I agree with :)

brihead301
12-20-2007, 09:50 AM
I used to think that Rhodes was always advocating eating junk foods, but what I realized is that he's trying to tell people:

1.) Weight moves weight - if you want to get stronger, then gaining weight definately helps a lot
2.) If you're having a problem gaining weight, eat more
3.) Calorie dense foods make it easier to gain weight (ie. foods that are high in fat)
4.) There's nothing wrong with eating healthy and clean
5.) If you can gain weight by eating healthy and clean, then by all means do it.

That's what I get out of what he's trying to tell people.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 09:54 AM
As far as your lifting goals I think your diet is spot on. In terms of health I'd like to see some more phytonutrients in there.

Not sure what you think this proves.



Sure, ask away!

With every doctor visit, my blood work comes back perfect. The only thing I get after a contest is elevated red-blood cell counts, which raise my BP slightly. After 2 months, the BP is usually 130/80, give or take. As of now, my PCP has never asked me about my diet, so I choose not to tell him, because I know what he'll say.

My question is, why eat vegetables and fruits, if I don't have any health concerns? I know they're good for me, and supposedly make you feel better when you eat them, but I have no health concerns that warrant me eating something that I really don't like.

My cardio keeps me feeling like I want to feel. Energized, awake, focused (I can tell when I miss a session), loose.

I guess there's a long term benefit, that you're talking about? I'm only assuming.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 09:59 AM
I understand now that you've cleared it up, but before it didn't see that way. And apparently I'm not the only one who read this.

Chill, I'm not attacking you. I respect you and your accomplishments. I like reading your posts and finding out what top athletes do to set themselves apart from everyone else. I don't know enough about health and nutrition to actually know "what I want to read."

How I learned to pick and choose what I read or who I listen to is based on what I ramble on about all the time. Who's out there doing it? One point, that a lot of people miss, and I've said this before, is, we spend so much time reading and researching about diet and training. We should be spending that time finding training partners that share our goals. If you surround yourself with people who are training with the same intent and end result as you are, you'll make huge gains and never have to crack open a book. Then, when you do decide to read, you'll have some real-world experience behind you. Then, you'll be able to say that that author is full of it or that guy knows his stuff, all based on what you found out by doing, not reading.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 10:08 AM
Haha, you have no health concerns that warrant you eating vegetables and fruits? What a joke, bro. Seriously you can't believe this?

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 10:15 AM
Haha, you have no health concerns that warrant you eating vegetables and fruits? What a joke, bro. Seriously you can't believe this?

Yeah, I do believe that. Why should I eat vegetables if I don't like them? Who says I HAVE to eat vegetables to be healthy?

Why do you eat vegetables? Who told you that you HAD to eat vegetables to be healthy? My guess is, you don't know EXACTLY where you heard this from, but you heard it. This tells me that you blindly follow "someone" who's told you that you HAVE to eat vegetables. I bet you'd jump off a cliff if some hot girl said she'd bang you.

When you can produce the rule that tells me i HAVE to eat vegetables, I will.

brihead301
12-20-2007, 10:18 AM
A hot girl will bang you if you eat vegetables.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 10:25 AM
A hot girl will bang you if you eat vegetables.

F#$%ER! :D Are you for real? I'm getting a salad for lunch, bitches!

HahnB
12-20-2007, 10:31 AM
After reading this thread I can say that I eat in very similar ways to Rhodes, I just had never seen his diet before. I assumed it was all fast food and what not.

Most of my diet is decently clean, little or no fruit or vegetables, an I eat fast food 1-3 times per week-although I try to keep it as healthy as possible-chick-a-filet isn't too bad.

I love fruits and vegetables, but I don't each them nearly as much as I should.

From his posts I had just assumed his diet was fast food 3-4 times a day and a bunch of other crap.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 10:32 AM
After reading this thread I can say that I eat in very similar ways to Rhodes, I just had never seen his diet before. I assumed it was all fast food and what not.

Most of my diet is decently clean, little or no fruit or vegetables, an I eat fast food 1-3 times per week-although I try to keep it as healthy as possible-chick-a-filet isn't too bad.

I love fruits and vegetables, but I don't each them nearly as much as I should.

From his posts I had just assumed his diet was fast food 3-4 times a day and a bunch of other crap.

At one point, it was, dude.

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 11:04 AM
Chubrock, I think you are obfuscating the matter at hand. There are three separate and orthogonal issues here as far as I see it. One, Rhodes specific diet and training regimen. Two, how can 'scientific knowledge' inform Rhodes (as a representative of the 'experience pwns all' school of thought). And three, whether or not Holto has put his knowledge to good use (contingent with the fact that he has good genetics).

What is the purpose of intertwining these three separate discussions into one? What is YOUR purpose for interjecting and attempting to discredit Holto?



What the **** do these words even mean? In english next time, please.

Invain
12-20-2007, 11:04 AM
Glad you posted this Rhodes. To be honest, I was beginning to think like Hahn as well about your eating habits. I usually agree with everything you say, but sometimes I really wondered a little if you could honestly be where you're at today if you ate nothing but fast-food and junk all day.

Now I know the real answer. :p

Holto
12-20-2007, 11:05 AM
My question is, why eat vegetables and fruits, if I don't have any health concerns?

I guess there's a long term benefit, that you're talking about?

In my personal philosophy Health is a continuum.

One on end of the spectrum you have people that have health problems. On the other end you have people who are in perfect health that wake up beaming, are in a good mood most of the time and have an overabundance of energy. In the middle you have people who have no health problems but are not feeling the benefits of elevated health.

*edit*

For all you guys eating really big, and you don't want to waste the stomach space or time chewing on veggies, there are always the green drinks.

1 tablespoon of greens powder
2 cups of grapejuice
2 scoops of vanilla whey
2 tablespoons of olive oil

Bam! Bulking shake with veggies!

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 11:08 AM
In the middle you have people who have no health problems but are not feeling the benefits of elevated health.



If you have no health problems, why engage in something that you really don't enjoy or like? Could he potentially feel even better? Maybe, but why worry with it if there is no adverse effects?

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 11:13 AM
In my personal philosophy Health is a continuum.

One on end of the spectrum you have people that have health problems. On the other end you have people who are in perfect health that wake up beaming, are in a good mood most of the time and have an overabundance of energy. In the middle you have people who have no health problems but are not feeling the benefits of elevated health.

*edit*

For all you guys eating really big, and you don't want to waste the stomach space or time chewing on veggies, there are always the green drinks.

1 tablespoon of greens powder
2 cups of grapejuice
2 scoops of vanilla whey
2 tablespoons of olive oil

Bam! Bulking shake with veggies!

Do you believe those drink are worthwhile? I'm guessing yes. I will pay more attention to my well-being and see if I can figure out where I fall on your continuum. I like your spectrum of health. Good way to explain it.

Holto
12-20-2007, 11:16 AM
Could he potentially feel even better? Maybe, but why worry with it if there is no adverse effects?

This is the thing. Elevated health is basically the easter bunny until you experience it.

I would never go back to eating the way I did because I love to feel the way I do now. It's euphoric.

Holto
12-20-2007, 11:18 AM
Do you believe those drink are worthwhile?

Yeah I really do.

There are over 100,000 phytonutrients in nature. It's pretty hard to get all of them, so even if you do eat a ton of veggies the drinks are pretty cool because it broadens the spectrum of nutrients you get.

Also, an amazing cure for a hangover.

galileo
12-20-2007, 11:39 AM
If you have no health problems, why engage in something that you really don't enjoy or like?

Same reason I do cardio, I'd imagine. I hate doing it, but I love wearing the tiny shorts.

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 11:41 AM
Same reason I do cardio, I'd imagine. I hate doing it, but I love wearing the tiny shorts.



I love when you wear the tiny shorts too.

galileo
12-20-2007, 11:43 AM
Win-win.

brihead301
12-20-2007, 11:55 AM
Ya that does sound pretty damn sexy (no homo of course).

drew
12-20-2007, 11:56 AM
I love when you wear the tiny shorts too.

*Hoping Rhodes shows up to bench in tiny shorts.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 12:52 PM
You guys are awesome. Seriously. Rhodes even you ;)

(no homo stuff here either)

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 01:03 PM
(no homo stuff here either)



What, you aren't comfortable with man on man action haha?

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 01:06 PM
I'm comfortable with it as long as I'm not participating

*doesn't mind watching tiny shorted Rhodes bench*

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 01:08 PM
LMAO. You've got a fan Rhodes.

arnoldsclone
12-20-2007, 01:27 PM
In my personal philosophy Health is a continuum.

One on end of the spectrum you have people that have health problems. On the other end you have people who are in perfect health that wake up beaming, are in a good mood most of the time and have an overabundance of energy. In the middle you have people who have no health problems but are not feeling the benefits of elevated health.

*edit*

For all you guys eating really big, and you don't want to waste the stomach space or time chewing on veggies, there are always the green drinks.

1 tablespoon of greens powder
2 cups of grapejuice
2 scoops of vanilla whey
2 tablespoons of olive oil

Bam! Bulking shake with veggies!

holto, where do i get the greens powder?? what exactly is in it(greens obviously but what from??) , i'd love to start getting close to the easter bunny.......right now i try to eat 1 whole bag of birdseye mixed veggies every night with my final meal, but maybe i could do better with the powder??

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 01:29 PM
Trust me, nobody wants to see me in tiny shorts. My girl even turns the light off when I get naked. I'm not appealing to the sober human eye. But, God gives us what he chooses.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 01:29 PM
It would suit Rhodes that his only fan disagrees with everything he says :zipit:

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 01:31 PM
Yeah I really do.

There are over 100,000 phytonutrients in nature. It's pretty hard to get all of them, so even if you do eat a ton of veggies the drinks are pretty cool because it broadens the spectrum of nutrients you get.

Also, an amazing cure for a hangover.

I assuming any greens mix will suffice? Any product you know of or recommend?

If I start crapping seaweed, I'm coming up to Canada and I'm gonna take a dump in your bathroom! You won't like that.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 01:32 PM
It would suit Rhodes that his only fan disagrees with everything he says :zipit:

Rough sex is always better. That's why I like my girl to put me in a headlock and punch me in the face.

samadhi_smiles
12-20-2007, 01:42 PM
lol too much information ;)

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 01:44 PM
lol too much information ;)

Is that your creative way of getting me to divulge more info than I care to? I won't play your game. Not today. Maybe later, though. I have a date tonight. With a girl! I think?

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 01:51 PM
Is that your creative way of getting me to divulge more info than I care to? I won't play your game. Not today. Maybe later, though. I have a date tonight. With a girl! I think?

Pre or Post Op?

Holto
12-20-2007, 02:14 PM
holto, where do i get the greens powder?? what exactly is in it(greens obviously but what from??) , i'd love to start getting close to the easter bunny.......right now i try to eat 1 whole bag of birdseye mixed veggies every night with my final meal, but maybe i could do better with the powder??

They are all different but what I like the most about them is they contain foods that most people don't eat like bee pollen and Nova Scotia dulse.

The best one I'm aware of is from these guys:

www.genuinehealth.com

Really though, buy one and try it, you may never look back.



I'm coming up to Canada and I'm gonna take a dump in your bathroom!

*enters witness protection program*

TopCat
12-20-2007, 02:25 PM
If you have no health problems, why engage in something that you really don't enjoy or like? Could he potentially feel even better? Maybe, but why worry with it if there is no adverse effects?

Simple answer is risk reduction.

Medically, many times diets/workout plans and other non-pharmacological tools are used to reduce the risk that a patient might develop a health problem. I can't really speak about how nutrition would fit into this regarding veggies though.

*Edit: Bold for the part that matters. The first part was me just wanting to continue the point made by holto about health being a continuum because medically that is often how it is.

Slim Schaedle
12-20-2007, 02:29 PM
I like how this thread is going.

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Simple answer is risk reduction.





I can understand reducing risk, but to what degree do we continue to reduce risk before the benefits are outweighed by the negative aspects? It really comes down to individual preference. Some people would say that eating vegetables, especially ones they can't stand, is worse than the benefits gained from eating them.

TopCat
12-20-2007, 02:51 PM
It really comes down to individual preference. Some people would say that eating vegetables, especially ones they can't stand, is worse than the benefits gained from eating them.

Excellent point. Quality of life is often over looked.

Holto
12-20-2007, 02:55 PM
I can understand reducing risk, but to what degree do we continue to reduce risk before the benefits are outweighed by the negative aspects?

What are the negative aspects?

Sensei
12-20-2007, 03:04 PM
If you have no health problems, why engage in something that you really don't enjoy or like? Could he potentially feel even better?Yes, he could definately feel even better.

Maybe, but why worry with it if there is no adverse effects?You won't know there are adverse side effects until you have perceptible symptoms and then you will have more headaches to deal with.

Consider it preventative medicine if you want. It's always a lot harder to come back from an injury or illness than to do a little preventative maintenance up front.

Yes, it is possible that it will never be too late - some people get away with poor lifestyle choices and NEVER show any outward symptoms (like smoking, for example) - doesn't mean that it has no effect.

Rhodes,
I don't have much to add and I don't consider myself knowledgeable on the subject of nutrition - my advice to gain weight is eat more and to lose weight, eat less. I think Holto, et. al have actually given you good advice here. There are a lot of painless ways to add some green to your diet if you want to. I prefer whole foods to supplements, but occasionally I'll buy "vegetable supps" and they are easy to throw in a shake. Some come in tabs too. Frozen fruits (strawberries, blueberries, etc.) that you can find in the freezer section are really easy to throw in shakes.

I'm a big fan of a having a varied diet and that's tough to get if you eliminate or limit food groups. Phyto and, maybe micronutrient intake are just not going to be same with a diet without fruits and vegetables. Fiber is another consideration. Now, I know you could just go out and buy some "Colon-Blow" and say your fiber intake is good, but I just don't know if that's the healthiest way to go.

I don't really overthink nutrition and have zero interest in calories or supplements beyond what is necessary, but I think that a diet needs variety just like training does. No, it's not the same thing and some a-hole will probably want to punch holes in the analogy, but most people would agree that mixing it up from time to time is a good thing.

Anthony Ricciuto wrote a number of nutritional articles for PLUSA and I remember reading with great interest about all the work he was doing w. Garry Frank... until I saw Garry walk into a meet with a big bag of McDonalds... But, it doesn't really matter, Garry was getting older, had plenty of old injuries and it just makes sense that you need to be a little more conscientious about diet as it affects everything in the body. Seeing him w. the McD's was funny, but you know that doesn't negate all the work he was doing w. Anthony.

arnoldsclone
12-20-2007, 03:09 PM
What are the negative aspects?

money out of pocket, and people generally don't like vegetables lol.....personally i love vegetables and they help me poop good, and they make me feel good....i also think my gains are better quality wise as well when I'm bulking and i eat a ton of veggies as opposed to rice/ pasta or other carbs with my pwo meal, it's all opinion though.......

oh and holto what product specifically in that site you referenced is the "greens powder"?? i couldn't find it..and thanks

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 03:10 PM
Yes, he could definately feel even better.
.

It was a rhetorical question.

Sensei
12-20-2007, 03:11 PM
It was a rhetorical question.Yeah, I know.

Chubrock
12-20-2007, 03:12 PM
Yeah, I know.

Fantastic?

Sensei
12-20-2007, 03:14 PM
Fantastic?Yes I am.

Holto
12-20-2007, 03:37 PM
oh and holto what product specifically in that site you referenced is the "greens powder"?? i couldn't find it..and thanks

http://www.genuinehealth.com/english/pbn/index.php?id=8&section=162

Slim Schaedle
12-20-2007, 04:11 PM
http://www.genuinehealth.com/english/pbn/index.php?id=8&section=162

For some reason the product is not showing up for me either when I go to that link (unless I am just blind right now)

But, this site has it as well...

http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/results/health-wellness/bcatid10/greens-genuine-health/2-7985/forsale?text=category:health-wellness+Brand:Greens-Genuine-Health

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 04:20 PM
What about V8 Fusion? The fruits and vegetable drink? Or, am I better off with the powder? This may turn into a 6 week trial of adding those vials weeds to my diet.

Witness protection plan or not, I'll find you if my craps aren't pleasant anymore.

Sensei - we think alike. I know variety is the best policy. It gets easy with the same stuff everyday. Laziness tkaes over when it comes to adding new stuff.

markdk86
12-20-2007, 04:33 PM
Lol rhodes. I want to eat like you when I'm done cutting. Hell, if I could eat and have sex with my girl at the same time, I would. I <3 food...

Holto
12-20-2007, 04:37 PM
What about V8 Fusion? The fruits and vegetable drink? Or, am I better off with the powder?

The powder is much better. They come flavored as well...

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 04:48 PM
Lol rhodes. I want to eat like you when I'm done cutting. Hell, if I could eat and have sex with my girl at the same time, I would. I <3 food...

Dude, you have no idea how much I dislike eating. I wish I had an appetite. If you watched me eat, you'd laugh. I fight for every forkful of food. If I could be this heavy and eat 2x per day, I would.

markdk86
12-20-2007, 04:58 PM
Ha. I'm the opposite. My girlfriend said to me the other day that she has near seen me happier then when there is food in front of my face.

arnoldsclone
12-20-2007, 05:11 PM
Ha. I'm the opposite. My girlfriend said to me the other day that she has near seen me happier then when there is food in front of my face.

i love my food too lol! nothin better than a big peice of meat, and a bunch of veggies and then a cocktail and then some real tail!

brihead301
12-20-2007, 06:10 PM
Food is good, but sometimes it's a bitch forcing it. Especially my 9:30 meal, since I'm usually stuffed from my breakfast at 7:30.

Holto
12-20-2007, 06:21 PM
Another point about the greens that I certainly can't explain scientifically is it's ability to put the body in an alkaline state.

Randy Couture swears by it and eats greens at every meal. Much easier for him as a pro fighter, he has to maintain weight, but when you win the championship belt in a combat sport at age 44 your diet and training certainly look effective.

I think it could help recovery between sets. So it won't help you at an actual meet I don't think but in the weeks leading up to the meet it could improve your training.

Specifically it could result in more sarcoplasmic hyertrophy by shortening rest times.

For a guy like Rhodes gearing up to squat 1025, at some point your pushing the bounds of the human body and it can't hurt to have every little edge you can get.

RhodeHouse
12-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Another point about the greens that I certainly can't explain scientifically is it's ability to put the body in an alkaline state.

Randy Couture swears by it and eats greens at every meal. Much easier for him as a pro fighter, he has to maintain weight, but when you win the championship belt in a combat sport at age 44 your diet and training certainly look effective.

I think it could help recovery between sets. So it won't help you at an actual meet I don't think but in the weeks leading up to the meet it could improve your training.

Specifically it could result in more sarcoplasmic hyertrophy by shortening rest times.

For a guy like Rhodes gearing up to squat 1025, at some point your pushing the bounds of the human body and it can't hurt to have every little edge you can get.

Recovery is something I'm looking into more and more. Specifically conditioning to improve recovery. My ass was dead by the time I had to pull. I believe if I was in better shape, I would've felt better and had more in me. In my head, some cardio-type conditioning might be the answer. Any aid in recovery would help. It stands to reason that nutrion would help that process, as well. That's why we chug the hi carb drinks pre and post-workout.

Sounds kinda like vitamins - they don't help you today, but 6 months from now, all those vitamins everyday might make a difference. Not sure if that makes sense.

Holto
12-20-2007, 06:30 PM
Sounds kinda like vitamins - they don't help you today, but 6 months from now, all those vitamins everyday might make a difference. Not sure if that makes sense.

Makes total sense.

In fact most of the things we do to improve our health accumulate. Much like smoking for two weeks won't do much harm but two years is a whole different ball game.

Sensei
12-20-2007, 08:08 PM
Recovery is something I'm looking into more and more. Specifically conditioning to improve recovery. My ass was dead by the time I had to pull. I believe if I was in better shape, I would've felt better and had more in me. In my head, some cardio-type conditioning might be the answer. Any aid in recovery would help. It stands to reason that nutrion would help that process, as well. That's why we chug the hi carb drinks pre and post-workout.

Sounds kinda like vitamins - they don't help you today, but 6 months from now, all those vitamins everyday might make a difference. Not sure if that makes sense.I'm pretty sure that GPP work would help your ability to suffer through a 12 hour meet, but I assume you do plenty of sled/prowler work already, right?... I don't know how you feel about kettlebells, but high rep kettlebell swings are a great conditioner and (after you get acclimated) will not eat into your heavy work unless you go bananas on them.
There are a lot of micro and phytonutrients that reduce cortisol production, etc. There are tons of reasons to include greens in your diet and I'm sure there are tons of good articles on the internet if you wanted to read them.

RedSpikeyThing
12-20-2007, 08:32 PM
Lots of intelligent conversation from the smart people.
This thread makes me happy :)

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-20-2007, 08:54 PM
Rough sex is always better. That's why I like my girl to put me in a headlock and punch me in the face.I'm sorry. This had me laughing for a solid 10 minutes. :zipit:

Good stuff.

Maj. Office Gut
12-20-2007, 10:11 PM
Great thread

A guy at my work swears by something called Spirulina. Have you guys ever tried it?

Holto
12-21-2007, 08:13 AM
Great thread

A guy at my work swears by something called Spirulina. Have you guys ever tried it?

You can find that in just about every "greens" formula out there. Wheatgrass is really good on its own also.

arnoldsclone
12-21-2007, 10:30 AM
You can find that in just about every "greens" formula out there. Wheatgrass is really good on its own also.

what do you think of the brand "naked" juicesm they have this one called superfood, it has tons of greens in it from seaweed to broccoli to spinach to spirulina (sp?) and a ton of others.........i just bought it thinking i could get my greens in in the am in a glass of juice...

RhodeHouse
12-21-2007, 11:33 AM
My Pre-workout drink is 100 grams of Ultra-fuel + something "special". I usually eat before the workout as well. I try to eat mostly carb based foods. Sometimes a cheeseburger finds it's way into my mouth, though. Not sure how that happens?

I like the ultra-fuel because of the sugar and slower acting carbs. And, i get a little bloat from it. Any other per-workout carbs you guys like?

Holto
12-21-2007, 11:44 AM
what do you think of the brand "naked" juicesm they have this one called superfood, it has tons of greens in it from seaweed to broccoli to spinach to spirulina (sp?) and a ton of others.........i just bought it thinking i could get my greens in in the am in a glass of juice...

I like the brand.

samadhi_smiles
12-21-2007, 12:04 PM
cheeseburgers are awesome, especially made with sirloin ground beef.

arnoldsclone
12-21-2007, 12:20 PM
I like the brand.

AWESOME, i think I'm just going to keep buying the large bottle they sell and drinking it with breakfast to get my greens in (not the whole thing in a sitting I'd puke lol, 1 bottle should last 4 days....)......

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 09:23 AM
what ever happened with this, Rhodes?

Gable
07-28-2008, 10:27 AM
I take Barlean's Greens..

The regular flavor tastes like, well.. grass clippings. I just mix it with about 4oz of water and chug it.. then drink something else. I find that if I put a serving into a shake it sorta gives the whole shake that grassy taste.. no bueno.

It makes me feel better when I remember to take it, and its pretty cheap.

http://www.barleans.com/greens.asp

Good luck,
Gable

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 12:13 PM
what ever happened with this, Rhodes?

I never wasted my time with this. I know how to eat. I know how to recover from workouts. I know how to gain/lose weight. I know how to drop bodyfat while I'm jacked. I don't need help with this stuff. This thread was me being a dickhead because Holto, like you as of late, liked to call me out on EVERY single thing I said about nutrition, like I'm some kind of idiot. You don't do what I've done in sport or the weightroom without knowing what you're talking about. You don't like what I have to say or how I say it, but my way works well. It's not perfect and I still need to improve some things, but it works.

I've spent the last 3 years or so playing with different ideas on gaining weight and trying to keep my bodyfat down. My approach is much different than it used to be. Not because i read some book, but because I tried out different stuff. I paid attention to my body. I took note of changes (good or bad) and looked back at my eating/training habits. Somethings I changed on purpose and others were an accident. This stuff is very simple. It just takes time and no one wants to invest time, nowadays. They want abs NOW! It just doesn't work that way. And, I didn't need a scientist to tell me that. i figured it out all by myself. YAY ME!

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 12:41 PM
I'm genuinely interested and I get chirped. Wow.

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 12:47 PM
I'm genuinely interested and I get chirped. Wow.

I'm not sure what you mean by chirped, so I'm gonna act tough until I figure it out.

If you mean what I've done differently, I can certainly post it, but not now. I have to get back to work. The crumbling economy calls.

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by chirped, so I'm gonna act tough until I figure it out.

If you mean what I've done differently, I can certainly post it, but not now. I have to get back to work. The crumbling economy calls.

"chirped" = insulted. For some reason I thought of this thread and wondered if you had gone through with it. I am curious about what you have changed and how it worked, though :)

Also LOL @ crumbling economy calling

Tennessee Mike
07-28-2008, 12:51 PM
I never wasted my time with this. I know how to eat. I know how to recover from workouts. I know how to gain/lose weight. I know how to drop bodyfat while I'm jacked. I don't need help with this stuff. This thread was me being a dickhead because Holto, like you as of late, liked to call me out on EVERY single thing I said about nutrition, like I'm some kind of idiot. You don't do what I've done in sport or the weightroom without knowing what you're talking about. You don't like what I have to say or how I say it, but my way works well. It's not perfect and I still need to improve some things, but it works.

I've spent the last 3 years or so playing with different ideas on gaining weight and trying to keep my bodyfat down. My approach is much different than it used to be. Not because i read some book, but because I tried out different stuff. I paid attention to my body. I took note of changes (good or bad) and looked back at my eating/training habits. Somethings I changed on purpose and others were an accident. This stuff is very simple. It just takes time and no one wants to invest time, nowadays. They want abs NOW! It just doesn't work that way. And, I didn't need a scientist to tell me that. i figured it out all by myself. YAY ME!

Dont worry big man.Apparently I'm an idiot too.Whats important is we know what to do.It sucks that some of the younger guys dont listen because I wish I had this kind of advice back in the early 90's.Obviously you cant speak like a man to some people,because they only repond to babying.Funny though,I have more success with my gym clients than any other trainer who works there......interesting.Stay strong my bald brother.

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 03:13 PM
Dont worry big man.Apparently I'm an idiot too.Whats important is we know what to do.It sucks that some of the younger guys dont listen because I wish I had this kind of advice back in the early 90's.Obviously you cant speak like a man to some people,because they only repond to babying.Funny though,I have more success with my gym clients than any other trainer who works there......interesting.Stay strong my bald brother.

weird, I asked him if he ended up trying it and now I'm calling you an idiot? I thought he may have tried it, but he didn't. That's all I wanted to know.

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 03:35 PM
I did a few things differently than I have in the past.

1. My pre/post-workout nutrition has changed and become much more consistant. Carbs pre-workout with BCAA's. Post-workout 100g carbs w/ BCAA's. 20 minutes afterthat, 25g of protein. This is based on Nutrient Timing. I can't remember the author.

2. I've made sure to eat eggs, beef, chicken, rice or pasta everyday. I've also cut out just about all the High Fructose Corn Syrup in my diet, with the exception of my Gatorade during my workout. When I'm smart and not lazy, I use the powdered Gatorade, which obviously has no HFC. I stopped drinking regualr soda, unless it's pre or post-workout meals. I love soda, so now I'm on the diet soda kick. Instead of snacking on cookies and other stuff like that, i've replaced them with PB, Ham and Cheese, or tuna sandwiches. I also like cheese and crackers.

Basically, I've just gotten rid of the crap I used to eat. Don't get me wrong, I'll still eat whatever I want. If I miss a meal or I'm stuck eating crap, I'll eat it. I just make a conscious effort when I shop, to not go down the aisles and buy the packaged food.

Some of this stuff came along by accident, some was on purpose. I don't feel much better, but I'm losing some of the fat I carry on my side muscles and belly.

That's all I can think of right now. Not sure if this answers your question.

Invain
07-28-2008, 04:01 PM
weird, I asked him if he ended up trying it and now I'm calling you an idiot? I thought he may have tried it, but he didn't. That's all I wanted to know.

I don't think he meant YOU were calling him an idiot Spikey.

Invain
07-28-2008, 04:04 PM
I did a few things differently than I have in the past.

1. My pre/post-workout nutrition has changed and become much more consistant. Carbs pre-workout with BCAA's. Post-workout 100g carbs w/ BCAA's. 20 minutes afterthat, 25g of protein. This is based on Nutrient Timing. I can't remember the author.

2. I've made sure to eat eggs, beef, chicken, rice or pasta everyday. I've also cut out just about all the High Fructose Corn Syrup in my diet, with the exception of my Gatorade during my workout. When I'm smart and not lazy, I use the powdered Gatorade, which obviously has no HFC. I stopped drinking regualr soda, unless it's pre or post-workout meals. I love soda, so now I'm on the diet soda kick. Instead of snacking on cookies and other stuff like that, i've replaced them with PB, Ham and Cheese, or tuna sandwiches. I also like cheese and crackers.

Basically, I've just gotten rid of the crap I used to eat. Don't get me wrong, I'll still eat whatever I want. If I miss a meal or I'm stuck eating crap, I'll eat it. I just make a conscious effort when I shop, to not go down the aisles and buy the packaged food.

Some of this stuff came along by accident, some was on purpose. I don't feel much better, but I'm losing some of the fat I carry on my side muscles and belly.

That's all I can think of right now. Not sure if this answers your question.

So you atleast admit now that eating healthy does make a difference?

CrazyK
07-28-2008, 04:08 PM
Wow, how's if feel to go back on all the **** you've posted over the last couple years? I'm glad to see you've cleaned up your diet and are healthier now, but you've always loved to preach that eating **** for a diet doesn't matter as much as people say.You and a few others just still don't get it.

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 04:14 PM
I did a few things differently than I have in the past.

1. My pre/post-workout nutrition has changed and become much more consistant. Carbs pre-workout with BCAA's. Post-workout 100g carbs w/ BCAA's. 20 minutes afterthat, 25g of protein. This is based on Nutrient Timing. I can't remember the author.

2. I've made sure to eat eggs, beef, chicken, rice or pasta everyday. I've also cut out just about all the High Fructose Corn Syrup in my diet, with the exception of my Gatorade during my workout. When I'm smart and not lazy, I use the powdered Gatorade, which obviously has no HFC. I stopped drinking regualr soda, unless it's pre or post-workout meals. I love soda, so now I'm on the diet soda kick. Instead of snacking on cookies and other stuff like that, i've replaced them with PB, Ham and Cheese, or tuna sandwiches. I also like cheese and crackers.

Basically, I've just gotten rid of the crap I used to eat. Don't get me wrong, I'll still eat whatever I want. If I miss a meal or I'm stuck eating crap, I'll eat it. I just make a conscious effort when I shop, to not go down the aisles and buy the packaged food.

Some of this stuff came along by accident, some was on purpose. I don't feel much better, but I'm losing some of the fat I carry on my side muscles and belly.

That's all I can think of right now. Not sure if this answers your question.
Thank you very much :) I'm planning a bulk in the fall (when I have money!) and this helps me a lot. Glad to know the pre/post workout nutrition has made a big difference. Sounds like something Berardi would write about, but I'm not sure.


Wow, how's if feel to go back on all the **** you've posted over the last couple years? I'm glad to see you've cleaned up your diet and are healthier now, but you've always loved to preach that eating **** for a diet doesn't matter as much as people say.

missed the point entirely.

Invain
07-28-2008, 05:09 PM
You and a few others just still don't get it.

Please explain to me what, you think, I don't get. The whole topic of his thread and the little feud with Holto was Rhodes' diet.

I edited my original comment. Didn't meen to openly attack Rhodes.

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 05:16 PM
So you atleast admit now that eating healthy does make a difference?

I called him on that a while ago and his response was that he eats well, but he eats crap when he has to. That is, when he won't make calories he goes to McDicks. It's pretty simple and, given his goals, makes sense. Some may disagree by thinking "no food is better than **** food".

Of course, that's what I think. I may be wrong.

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 06:34 PM
So you atleast admit now that eating healthy does make a difference?

Make a difference how? I feel better because I've increased my conditioning. Do I feel better because I eat a little cleaner? No. Is it going to help me? Maybe. I know you want to tell me it will, but I have no real world evidence that it will. Time will tell. If I had to do it all over again, I'd still eat McDonald's to gain weight. I'd still eat a bag of Lorna Doone Shortbread cookies (so good). Since I've cleaned up my diet, I feel the same. Since I've added conditioning, I feel better. I don't think I mentioned conditioning in my previous post. 5-6 days a week I do some sort of cardio conditioning.

You want me to comment on my physique, so you can say, "I told you eating better makes a difference." No, not really. The added work makes the biggest difference in my body. The eating helps, but I've gotten to this point before eating crap food. Now, if I wanted to get any leaner, diet would absolutely be one of the next steps. But, as a SHW powerlifter, i could care less about abs. On occassion I wish I had them, but then I wake up and realize that I am a beautiful specimen of a man. Huge neck, huge midsection, Huge back, huge ass - all I need is a bigger penis and bigger arms. Under 10% - diet really matters. Above, is easy. I'd feel better if I was 250lbs, but I'd be tiny and weak, and that is no way to go thru life.

Chubrock
07-28-2008, 06:38 PM
all I need is a bigger penis.


I've got an extra 6-7" I'll trade ya if I can get 2-300lbs worth of your DL.

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 06:40 PM
I've got an extra 6-7" I'll trade ya if I can get 2-300lbs worth of your DL.

DONE! Cut that $hit off and send it to me.

DL help:

Raw squat
Power squat
Box squat
Rack Pulls
Bent Rows/Chest Supported Rows
Low back
Abs

Chubrock
07-28-2008, 06:42 PM
DONE! Cut that $hit off and send it to me.

DL help:

Raw squat
Power squat
Box squat
Rack Pulls
Bent Rows/Chest Supported Rows
Low back
Abs

Not so fast there big guy. I said 6-7" for 2-300lbs of YOUR DL. The question is, is sizable drop in your DL worth the extra length? Think verrry carefully.

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 06:44 PM
Not so fast there big guy. I said 6-7" for 2-300lbs of YOUR DL. The question is, is sizable drop in your DL worth the extra length? Think verrry carefully.

YUP! Send that bitch!

Chubrock
07-28-2008, 06:47 PM
Hahaha, alright then. I always figured 14" was too much anyhow.

vdizenzo
07-28-2008, 06:55 PM
Anyone looking to donate arm size to my man Rhodes? He's always complaining about his arms.

Chubrock
07-28-2008, 06:57 PM
Well when my package gets to him his dicks gonna be 3-4" thicker than his arms, so somebody better hook him up quick.

RedSpikeyThing
07-28-2008, 07:15 PM
Make a difference how? I feel better because I've increased my conditioning. Do I feel better because I eat a little cleaner? No. Is it going to help me? Maybe. I know you want to tell me it will, but I have no real world evidence that it will. Time will tell. If I had to do it all over again, I'd still eat McDonald's to gain weight. I'd still eat a bag of Lorna Doone Shortbread cookies (so good). Since I've cleaned up my diet, I feel the same. Since I've added conditioning, I feel better. I don't think I mentioned conditioning in my previous post. 5-6 days a week I do some sort of cardio conditioning.

I slack on that and have always wondered how much of a difference it would it make. Thanks for the motivation :thumbup:
What kind of conditioning do you do?

Reko
07-28-2008, 08:09 PM
^^ to follow up do you do the conditioning when you are bulking/gaining too?

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 10:26 PM
Yes I condition when I gain. It's a mile walk 2-3x per week. Sometimes I just go in my backyard and throw a med ball around for 5-10 minutes. Nothing crazy, just some movement. It makes my mind feel better most of all. It also helps loosen up my joints after heavy workouts. I have actually gotten a little bit of the "runner's high' when walking. Conditioning also does wonders for your recovery from heavy workouts.

RhodeHouse
07-28-2008, 10:27 PM
Anyone looking to donate arm size to my man Rhodes? He's always complaining about his arms.

I will be the only 330lb man with under 20" arms. So sad. Can a brother get a curl bar?

TopCat
07-28-2008, 11:58 PM
I will be the only 330lb man with under 20" arms. So sad. Can a brother get a curl bar?

LOL! Why don't you just take a barbell and bend it :evillaugh:

Oh ya, grats on the new length PR!