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View Full Version : Am I starving myself on a 2200 cal diet?



QuadzillaRF
01-19-2008, 09:15 AM
My goal is to lose 20 pounds in 3 months which I think is a healthy rate. I'm 5'11" at 230pounds at 30% body fat. Used one of the expenditure calculators and said I burn 3200 just sitting. So if I do cardio in the morning burning 500 calories and do weight training for an hour at night burning another 500 calories, my calorie out versus in is very low. 2200 - 500 - 500 = 1200 calories. 3200 - 1200 = -2000 calorie deficit. Is this healthy because even though I eat 6-7 times a day, I'm still hungry.

Example Diet

Meal 1: Egg Beaters ( 1 cup ), Oatmeal w/ PB, Non Fat Yogurt, V8
Meal 2: 1 Grilled Chicken Breast and granola bar
Meal 3: Turkey and Spinach on Whole wheat bun and bag pretzels
Meal 4: 1 Grilled Chicken Breast and apple
Meal 5: Chicken Salad with Balsamic Salad dressing and Yogurt
Meal 6: Protein Shake with Non Fat Yogurt
Meal 7: Half cup of Low Fat Cottage Cheese

Big_Byrd52
01-19-2008, 09:32 AM
no that is perfectly fine to diet on 2200 cals at ur current size. i dieted on 2200 plus 2 1 hour seesions of cardio a day, then 4 wekks out down to 1800 cals. i was on stage at 218 pounds, and 1 month later 234 at 6-7%bf.

the problem is the crap u are eating.

drop the v8, pretzels, granola bar, 2 of the 3 yogurts and change to oats, rice and fruit. where are ur vegies? ur on the right track but i suggest these changes

Example Diet

Meal 1: 2 whole eggs plus 1 cup egg beater egg whites, 3/4 cup Oatmeal(uncooked weight)

Meal 2: 1 Grilled Chicken Breast, 1 cup veggies, 1/2 cup brown rice
Meal 3: Turkey and Spinach on Whole wheat pita, orange
Meal 4: 1 Grilled Chicken Breast and apple --very good--u flavored tuna for variety

Meal 5: chicken or tuna, salad (not chicken salad w/ mayo), 1/4 cup mixed nuts or cheese, low fat dressing

Meal 6: Protein Shake with 1/2 cup (dry) oatmeal blended in
Meal 7: Half cup of Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 1/4 cup cheese, 1/2 cup pinapples


assuming these meals are 3 hours apart, if 5 is preworkout switch 4 and 5

QuadzillaRF
01-19-2008, 09:47 AM
Thanks for the response Big. Good point cutting the crap out like yogurt, V8, and granola bars. They were just convenient to scarf down at work when the only time I have to eat is 2 10m breaks and a 1hr lunch break, but I'll plan my meals night before and shouldn't be a problem. I'm going grocery shopping and restocking the fridge with the foods you pointed out.

KingWilder
01-19-2008, 11:33 AM
what is the macro breakdown of what you listed? (i.e. how much protien, fat, carbs)

also I'd shy away from basing your calories on how much you plan to burn/expenditure calculators (it's okay to START there, but it's not very accurate)...just weigh yourself once a week and determine if you're going down, up, or staying the same and adjust your calories accordingly. If you're trying to spare as much muscle a possible I'd really only shoot to lose 2lbs a week.

Built
01-19-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm not sure why yogurt, granola and V8 qualify as crap - but I don't see a whole lot of healthy fat in there.

www.fitday.com

Macros please.

Big_Byrd52
01-19-2008, 08:48 PM
i classify it as crap cause it doesnt sit with u very long. one yougurt is fine, beacuse it does have some good stuff, but ur cals start getting down that low, u want the best bang for ur buck. and a granola bar and v8 aint it. he is much better off eating the viggies or fruit than trying to drink them. and much better with 200 cals of rice than 200 g of highly processed granola bar, im sure heavily sugar laden.

if u need macros its gonna be about a 40/40/20

Built
01-19-2008, 08:52 PM
If your macros work out, and you feel satisfied, who cares about a v8 and a granola bar?

40/40/20 sucks eggs for cutting. In fact, ratio based diets don't hold much cred under any circumstances. Stick with LBM-based targets for protein and fat. On a cut, keep the protein and fat as high as your cals will allow - it's MUCH more comfortable. And you'll hold your muscle better.

My .02

Big_Byrd52
01-19-2008, 09:07 PM
if u read what he said, he said he is still starving, so he is not satisfied. would rather drink 200 cals from v8 or eat it in real veggies? which is gonna keep u full?

and if macros dont hold much credit then why did u ask for them? u do have to start somewhere. i dont know what this is, im guessing here, u can plug it in fitday and find out u really need to. but like u said, once u start cuttin cals and getin down the macros dont matter.

Built
01-20-2008, 12:52 AM
I didn't say macros don't mean anything - I said RATIOS don't.

He may not be eating enough food. I'd like to see the macros - grams of protein, carb and fat, and total calories.

I agree with you, on a cut, you want to eat foods that are satisfying. To me, this means a lot more fat than you are suggesting.

Big_Byrd52
01-20-2008, 08:23 AM
and thats fine, to each their own. my brain doesnt work very well if i get below 200g consistantly, so i sacrafice fat. what i suggested is going to have roughly 55-60g fat. if he needs more it would be easy to do by switching the dressing to an oil based on the salad, and by adding oil to veggies; either almost stirr fried or sauteed pepers and onion... em... thats sounding pretty good right now.

Built
01-21-2008, 11:03 PM
Exactly. Which is why ratios suck as a guide. Go with LBM-targeted minimums for protein (no less than a gram per pound LBM) and fat (no less than half a gram per pound LBM), and you can safely fiddle with the rest of your calories until you find a blend that's optimal for you - while ensuring you have enough of the essentials to support your muscles.

Big_Byrd52
01-22-2008, 09:48 AM
ok, so are u agreeing with my recomendations or are we arguing over something? im lost...

Built
01-22-2008, 11:07 PM
You go by "percentage of total calories". I go by something less variable. Targeting macronutrients against total calories is problematic because it means you'll drop protein during a cut, when you need it most. Get it?

Big_Byrd52
01-23-2008, 11:51 AM
no not really... sorry.

as a starting point, i believe a balanced diet is best. but when getting into extreme condition, ratios and macros get tossed. u keep the pro, and take out carb and fat as needed. we agree on that i think.

but this is for extreme condition... that requires extreme methods. i dont think its needed to get into 8-10% range. he is at 30%... he has some time. anything in the exteme cannot be healthy over the long haul, and 30% at 230 is gonna take a while regardless of the method of diet used.


diets are different for everyone. do low carb higher fat diets work? of course, but not everyone, myself included, can function like that. as long as one gets the required protein, 1x weight, the rest is a matter of preference as to carbs and fat. but either way, the less processed the food chosen is a better option.

Built
01-23-2008, 12:01 PM
no not really... sorry.

as a starting point, i believe a balanced diet is best.

Define "balance". For some, it means certain percentages. For others, it meals something else.

For me, it means "it's working".

Balance isn't a set of inputs - it's an ourcome. If it ain't working, it ain't balanced - for you.


but when getting into extreme condition, ratios and macros get tossed. u keep the pro, and take out carb and fat as needed. we agree on that i think.
Why use ratios at all? They're meaningless. They're anchored to something variable.

Put it this way.

On a bulk, you get more calories: you grow. Simple. Most of us won't have trouble getting in enough protein (ie at least a gram per pound LBM) and enough fat (ie at least half a gram of fat per pound LBM) because we're eating so damned much.

But on a cut, suppose you're going by a "percentage of total calories" paradigm.

By definition, protein and fat, the two essential macronutrients, get cut in the same proportion as carbohydrate, the one you don't actually need. That's goofy. This is when you need protein the most and carbs the least.

It's a flawed paradigm.




but this is for extreme condition... that requires extreme methods. i dont think its needed to get into 8-10% range. he is at 30%... he has some time. anything in the exteme cannot be healthy over the long haul, and 30% at 230 is gonna take a while regardless of the method of diet used.
I started at 40% bodyfat. I got down to low twenties inside 8 months.




diets are different for everyone. do low carb higher fat diets work? of course, but not everyone, myself included, can function like that. as long as one gets the required protein, 1x weight,
1g per pound lean mass is a clearer approach to this for a minimum. Very overfat people don't need that much protein. It becomes more important as bodyfat levels drop. Hence my irritation with a percentage of total calories approach. It simply obfuscates what's really going on.


the rest is a matter of preference as to carbs and fat. but either way, the less processed the food chosen is a better option.

Of course. My point is that by using LBM-targeted minimums for protein and fat, you can safely fiddle with the remaining calories until you find your comfort zone.

Percentage-based paradigms don't let you do this.

Aslin
01-23-2008, 12:20 PM
it all depends on how active you are throughout the day... I think your goal should be to lose 1-2lbs per week... You should Play about with your caloric intake until you see those results. If you begin to plateau and stop losing weight, try cutting back on the calories.

Always have a balanced diet of 40% protein, 40%Carbs, 20% fats.


to be honest though i think you should just eat as much Protein as you possibly can throughout the day.. I know its advisable to eat your body weight in pounds in grams of protein. But i really dont see why you cant eat more.

If you're cutting or bulking, its never a bad idea to gorge on protein.

Big_Byrd52
01-23-2008, 01:12 PM
Built-- how do u spot quote like that?

Big_Byrd52
01-23-2008, 01:33 PM
I define balanced as a healthy consumtion of essential vitamins, minerals, EAAs, EFAs, protein, and carbs (while understanding there is no such thing as an essential carb haha) not balanced as the FDA food pyramid, but not a zero or ultra low carb. i mean well rounded in the sense that there are balanced proportions of the macros (witin moderation), with room to cut things as the need arises.

Again let me emphasize i do distingiush between healthy 'diet' (nutrition) and diet, in the conventional sense.

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with the macros being skewed from cuttin cals, as long as the cals are at a reasonable level, ie 2200 in this case for a 230lb er with 30% bf, will fall to aprox 220 grams pro and carbs with 50g fat. as a baseline starting point, i still hold this to be sound. I have already conceded that from here, macros are out, but as a starting point it is sound. i have also seen it done by multiples of LBM ( i think it was 1.5 for pro and carbs and .25 for fat to eqaul grams of each.) this considers macros before ever considering total cals tho... but i believe it is sound also, and probably a better gauge than starting at a fixed calorie level. as u know the metab adjusts to consumption, and many diets must start with increased cals to kickstart it back up.

------------

i dont know ur weight, and assume u are female, but 8 months of very low carbs is an eternity. honestly, how many people have the discipline to follow that for 8 solid months? plus u have to consider the rebound effect once carbs are introduced. they have not learned how to adjust portion control , they just eliminated them. one should be able to maintain their new body when they get there. i dont believe an atkins or keto or whatever u want to term it, diet is healthy in the long run. it deprives the body of too much. contest prep-- it def gets the job done for many people, but not all.

---------------------

yes, i of course meant all cal consumption is based on LBM. fat doesnt burn cals--well maybe negligible amounts. this guy at 230 and 30% will have much different needs than me at 230 and 6-7% which is different than dexter jackson at 230 and 3-4%.

i think we are in agreement on all this stuff, we just had to talk in circles to get there. hopefully reading our back and forth will help some people out down the road.

Built
01-23-2008, 01:35 PM
it all depends on how active you are throughout the day... I think your goal should be to lose 1-2lbs per week... You should Play about with your caloric intake until you see those results. If you begin to plateau and stop losing weight, try cutting back on the calories.

Always have a balanced diet of 40% protein, 40%Carbs, 20% fats.

Okay. I'll bite.

I have 114 lbs of lean mass. Suppose my maintenance calories are 1600 a day and I need to drop to 1300 to lose.

This will mean I'll get 160g of protein to maintain, but only 130g to lose. That's ridiculous! If anything, during a cut I need MORE protein, not less.

Furthermore, with only 20% of calories coming from fat, for maintenance, I'll get 36g of fat, and worse, on a cut, I'll only get 29g of fat.

Seriously, I'd be chewing my ARM off at these levels, while watching my lean mass slip away.



to be honest though i think you should just eat as much Protein as you possibly can throughout the day.. I know its advisable to eat your body weight in pounds in grams of protein. But i really dont see why you cant eat more.

Again with the bodyweight. No. Not bodyweight. Lean mass. And unlimited protein means unlimited calories. This is no way to cut!




If you're cutting or bulking, its never a bad idea to gorge on protein.

You really need to update your bro-logic there bud. lol

Do some reading. You can start here (http://leanbodiesconsulting.com/best-macronutrient-breakdown-for-fat-loss.htm).

Built
01-23-2008, 01:38 PM
i dont know ur weight, and assume u are female, but 8 months of very low carbs is an eternity. honestly, how many people have the discipline to follow that for 8 solid months? plus u have to consider the rebound effect once carbs are introduced. they have not learned how to adjust portion control , they just eliminated them. one should be able to maintain their new body when they get there. i dont believe an atkins or keto or whatever u want to term it, diet is healthy in the long run. it deprives the body of too much. contest prep-- it def gets the job done for many people, but not all.


That's okay. I don't believe in the tooth fairy. ;)

I lost most of my weight on Atkins and it returned me to excellent health.

I low carb most of the time, and have for the last seven years. It's the easiest thing I've ever done. Healthiest, too. Only thing that ever kept the weight off - and I was fat for twenty years.

Big_Byrd52
01-23-2008, 02:05 PM
built, i see ur point with the % in ur exapmple above. i think 130g pro and carbs is plenty for ur size, 114lbs, but 36 and 29g of fat is a bit low. if u are getting 100 of those 130 carbs from green and or fiburous veggies, then u shouldnt be very hungry. some efas and fish oil would set u off right i think.

Big_Byrd52
01-23-2008, 02:07 PM
That's okay. I don't believe in the tooth fairy. ;)

I lost most of my weight on Atkins and it returned me to excellent health.

I low carb most of the time, and have for the last seven years. It's the easiest thing I've ever done. Healthiest, too. Only thing that ever kept the weight off - and I was fat for twenty years.


out of curiosity, what exactly is ur breakdown? i would like to see the diff.

Built
01-23-2008, 02:17 PM
See, it varies.

Now this week, I've been kick-starting my cut with a PSMF, so it looks weird, but generally, I carb-cycle.

I posted up an example along with an explanation of how I set it up (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2007/08/06/how-to-set-up-a-diet-basic-carb-cycling/) on my blog.

BBB
01-23-2008, 02:31 PM
Almost everyone around here does this:
1. Set your calories according to your goals.
2. Get a minimum of 1 g protein per lbm.
3. Get a minimum of .5 g healthy fats per lbm.
4. Spend the rest of your calories as you see fit.

Calories are set to goals. Protein and fat are set to preserve lbm if you are cutting and to make sure you are getting the essential nutrients. And part 4 lets you find YOUR comfort zone.

For people in a sever caloric restriction protein requirements go up.

QuadzillaRF
01-23-2008, 08:14 PM
Thanks for all the response guys. I'll list my meal that I have adjusted based on feedback. This is on a "Low Carb" day meal.

M1: 2 Whole Eggs, Half cup Egg Beates, half cup of oatmeal stirred with Natty PB (Fish Oil)
M2: 1 Chicken Breast, 1 cup of broccoli
M3: 1 Chicken Breast, 1 cup of broccoli, Apple or Orange (Fish Oil)
M4: 1 Chicken Breast, half cup of oatmeal *Pre Workout*
M5: 2 Scoops of Protein Powder blended with Natty PB *Post Workout*
M6: Half cup of 2% Cottage Cheese, 1 Chicken Breast (Fish Oil), Orange

These are the Macros that I hope you are taking about.

Carbs: 187g ------- 761cal ------ 28%
Fat: 77g ---------- 677cal ------ 26%
Protein: 292g ----- 1888cal ----- 46%

Calories: 2257


I'm trying out carb cycling after reading a lot of good results and Built's diet is based on it. Here's my plan and workout days.

On no carb days: I double up the veggies and cut carbs completely.
Low Carb days: 1g of carb per 1 pound of body weight. so shooting for 200g.
On high carb days. I'll eat a bowl of oatmeal 4 out of the 6 meals getting 350-400g of carbs.


Monday - High Carb - Weights (Chest, Back) & HIIT
Tuesday - No Carb - Rest
Wednesday - Low Carb - Weights (legs)
Thursday - No Carb - Rest
Friday - High Carb - Weights (bi's, tri's, shoulders)

Saturday - Low Carb - HIIT
Sunday - No Carb - Rest

Built
01-23-2008, 08:23 PM
Looks good, but I don't think I'd much enjoy training legs on low carb. HIIT on low carb - it's a bit of a coin toss, some prefer it, others feed HIIT like a lifting day. You might want to consider high for training with HIIT, medium for HIIT XOR training, and low for rest days.

Big_Byrd52
01-23-2008, 09:30 PM
ok built let me ask u this... sorry 4 highjackin ur thread dude haha

i see and understand ur methods, and can support that explanation. but i would think it would be much more useful for someone who has experience with previous diets. how would u reccomend a basic diet structure for someone like this, with no experience in dieting, to guide their wide latitude in calorie apportionment?

i think this is where we got crossed earlier.

Built
01-23-2008, 11:38 PM
For someone with no experience I usually tell them to do this:

www.fitday.com track for a week
then use the average calories for the week, but choose foods and amounts so that protein is at least a gram per pound lean mass and fat is at least half a gram per pound lean mass. Fiber >25g. Fiddle with the rest of the calories for comfort. Usually takes a week or two to find a comfort zone. For instance, if you really need to pack in a ton of calories, you might need to really lean on the natural peanut butter... or if you need to drop calories, you'll need to focus on the more satisfying foods (for me, meat, sweet potatoes, avocados, cottage cheese), and avoid things that make you hungry (for me, protein powder, or wheat).

To cut, do the same but with 20% below maintenance. To bulk, do the same but with 20% above.

eagle123
01-26-2008, 02:21 AM
wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?p=1860521
this is the minimum you should go for
and don't decrease than this as you have to eat the calories that are required
so don't play