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View Full Version : A friend is on a diet that doens't make sense to me.. help me advise him



Thotho
01-22-2008, 10:00 AM
He is working out with a personal trainer. When i was dieting and saw my best results I was taking in over 130gs of fat a day! His fat is under 40gs and his carbs is over 100gs a day. his protein seems low at 160gs a day. He is 6'3, 220lbs. his goal right now is lose all the holiday fat he put on (about 10-15lbs).

Why the two different diets? Also, if his goal is to lose fat why isn't his trainer putting him on a high fat diet like I was put on? I remember the get shredded diet I was on had very little carbs and lots of fat and protein.

If his diet is only 2000cal and he is 220lbs it doesn't seem like that is enough to put any muscle on either... I know losing muscle is a big no no for him as well. Any suggestions?

BFGUITAR
01-22-2008, 10:03 AM
If hes trying to lose fat he cant gain muscle at the same time.

Generally calories are what matter, 2000 seems low for him as well as 40g of fat.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Doesn't the protein seem really low as well if he is trying to maintain as much of the muscle as he can??

just curious if he should be doing low carbs and high fat instead of the opposite. Any reason the trainer would put him on this diet?

BFGUITAR
01-22-2008, 10:20 AM
Yes, forgot to mention, protein is low.

I would raise calories up at least by 500, raise protein by at least 30 grams, and maybe try to consume less carbs and a bit more fats. He doesnt need to go all out on fats like you did, more than one thing can work.

Its not horrible, but ive seen worse.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 10:40 AM
can you give me a scientific reason I can give him why he needs to increase his protein, lower his carbs and increase his fat?


I'm really confused as to why two completely opposite diets are supposed to give you the same result. Anyway, thanks for the advice man, if you can ad anything else that would be fantastic

BFGUITAR
01-22-2008, 10:47 AM
The whole idea is about calories. It doesnt matter where you get your calories from in your diet, whether it is fat or carbs. Now, some calories are better utilized over others (you dont want to eat 1000 calories of sugar a day, but rather 1000 calories of complex carbs like whole grains, rice...). But the overall picture is, eat less calories than you need in a day and you will lose weight, eat more if you want to gain (muscle and such).

Look up "protein sparing modified fast" and you will see that high protein while losing weight will greatly help to preserve muscle (scientifically proven). Fat is very important for hormone production and the brain (or brains are largely made of fat). 40 grams of fat a day for a person his size seems like its not enough. The general guideline is 0.5g of fat per pound of lean body mass. He should have about 80 grams of healthy fat at least.

Healthy fat is composed of polyunsaturated fats (found in fish and some oils) and monounsaturated (found in olive oil and nuts). Saturated fat (found in animals) is fine of course and needed for bodily functions but most people get enough of this anyways.

So to sum it all up...
Eat 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass and 0.5 grams of fat per pound of lean body mass. Fill in the rest of the calories with what ever you want, carbs, fat, protein...

ddegroff
01-22-2008, 10:51 AM
I'm really confused as to why two completely opposite diets are supposed to give you the same result.

Because no two people are a like. Different things work for different people.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 11:04 AM
other than the carbs you are supposed to eat after your workout, is there any benefit in eating more carbs than that? The outlined some of the benefits of fats and proteins.. but not carbs. I know its good to take about 35-50gs of carbs right after a work out but other than that is there any sense?


As for the two different diets for two different bodies, I could see that maybe making sense if they had tested each of us and asked us questions but how do they know anything about either of us? Its not like his diet or my diet was tailored to us. It was pretty much an off the shelf diet.

zen
01-22-2008, 11:18 AM
If hes trying to lose fat he cant gain muscle at the same time.

not true... *sigh* :tuttut:
your muscles can recuperate and grow when you are losing weight.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 11:20 AM
not true... *sigh* :tuttut:
your muscles can recuperate and grow when you are losing weight.

Thats interesting, i was told the same thing?? How is this done???

zen
01-22-2008, 11:38 AM
Thats interesting, i was told the same thing?? How is this done???

I will admit that it can be harder to make strength gains while you are on a serious calorie deficit, but most people don't come close to dieting nearly that hardcore, because if the body gets so desperate for energy that converting fat stores isn't enough, one of the ways to cope is to try to rob protein from muscle, but that is not hard to counter at all if you just take in some protein at regular intervals, which I am sure almost everyone here does anyway, whether on a diet or not.

Oh, and I have made strength gains in the past on a vegetarian diet when I was getting protein from eggs, dairy, and nuts. The body makes muscle when it has too from what it has (remember the gorilla), and yes, there are some essential amino acids, but that's going off on a tangent. The point I want to make is that I personally feel that two biggest myths are that you need an excessive calorie surplus and that you need massive amounts of protein to make gains.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 12:17 PM
yes but for optimal gains you do :)

caseymajor
01-22-2008, 12:58 PM
I would agree, different things work for different people. The one thing that i saw was really strange was how low his protein was. I would do 1g/per body weight at least. If it was up to me I would up the fat and lower the carbs.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 01:08 PM
yeah, I really don't understand the point of this diet. Yes it is a low calorie diet and yes he will lose weight on it but won't gain any muscle at all or any strength for that matter with such a low intake and such a low protein total. I'm just trying to understand what she was thinking when she gave it to him and as of right now, I still don't know. Anyone?

:)

ddegroff
01-22-2008, 02:20 PM
She wasn't thinking. She probably has no clue what's shes talking about. Like you said it's an "off the shelf" diet.

BFGUITAR
01-22-2008, 04:07 PM
not true... *sigh* :tuttut:
your muscles can recuperate and grow when you are losing weight.

Of course they can recuperate. Otherwise you wouldnt make any gains and always feel ****ty. But unless your cycling your diet, I dont see how you can gain muscle.

Thermodynamically the only way to gain muscle during a caloric deficit is to use up some fat energy to make muscle while in a caloric deficit. This would further put you in a caloric deficit. Despite how good that sounds, our body doesn't like to build muscle during a caloric deficit. It goes against how our body tries to survive in a absence of food.

If you cycle your diet you can do this, but essentially you cant build new muscle.

Really, our body doesnt like muscle and would prefer to be 15-20% bodyfat than 10%. Only until recently muscle for humans have become more important than fat. Read UD2.0 and Lyle's guide to PSMF and youll see what I mean.

Thotho
01-22-2008, 04:37 PM
so am I right in assuming she doesn't know what she is talking about in terms of diet then???

PelleK
01-23-2008, 11:36 AM
Even tho it probably sucks, I kinda understand why she gave that advice, I always used to think fat was bad, cuz of all low fat products etc, and didn't know the difference in fats. She probably means like: don't eat cheeseburgers, bacon etc, eat lots of fruit and clean proteins from stuff like tuna and stuff. I'm just trying to say she's stupid, or, like, not well educated in nutrition, not to be confused with evil.

(Personally I know nothing of anything, I just eat alot of peanutbutter and meat everyday and lift heavy by wbb routines lol)