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11-17-2001, 07:04 AM
I was refering to the binge day i had two weeks ago.

I think the tuna may indeed be paying off.

Oh, and i have no idea who puccini is. The version i have is by Pavarotti.

11-17-2001, 10:28 AM
puccini is the guy who wrote madame butterfly (i think nessum dorma is from that?).

11-18-2001, 07:24 AM
No idea, all i know is that it was the theme for World cup Italia '90 [damn west germany. We should have won the cup that year.]

Good leg session, but i really dislike training that early in the day and on only one meal.

Squats: 115k - 6 [7th rep was poo]
I'm coming up to my best ever squat weight [125k.] I'd prolly be there or past it now if i hadn;t kept my squat weight the same for so long for the cardio.
Leg press: 245k - 11
hacks: 45k - 10 I am only one of two people i have ever seen actually going past parallel on this machine.
extentions: 80k - 8
leg curls: 42.5k - 8 on both legs put the weight down on this as planned.
seated calf: 70k - 9
st. calf: 125k - 13

i reduced volume on calves for this week to see how that affects me.

No nothing tomorrow as i am going out for a meal and a booze with my buds cause it's a couple of their birthdays. It will be my last cheat until i finish dieting at christmas. Chest training should be as usual on tuesday.

I was quite tired earlier, but some coffe and some at the drive-in choons have perked me up nicely. :)

rah rah rah...

11-19-2001, 07:34 AM
Good Squating for a tall guy ... hope your arse was to the floor.

11-19-2001, 09:40 AM
i go as far down as physically possible - which is not past parallel - hence, why i do hacks.

i actually reckon that my deep hacks are helping my squat progression nicely.

11-19-2001, 10:35 AM
since i'm going out tonight i figured instead of having a cheat day as such i'd make it a higher carb day, so today i've also ate whole grains and cereals. this is for the complex carbs but also to get rid of a few cravings. It's amazing the kind of cravings you get ~~~> bread of all things...

11-19-2001, 05:05 PM
I am rather drunk.

that is all.

11-20-2001, 11:24 AM
Indeed you were.

this morning and throughout the day i've had the feeling of 'why do i waste my time lifting and eating this way when i never seem to be getting the results i want.'

That was until i checked myself in the mirror after a rather sexy workout.

There's 4.5 weeks left till christmas and that is all the incentive i need to make these next 4.5 weeks count.

Todays session was brought to you in association with A.C.E Ltd(TM)

Bench: 95k - failed on 3rd
80k - failed on 9 dropped weight for the second set and tried a faster rep approach.

decline machine press: 220k - 6 + 1
200k - 9 again, dropped weight for second set and used faster rep tempo

DB flyes: 32kx2 - failed on 4th these felt like 50k

weighted dips: bw + 25k - failed on 6 well, i'm no Belial, but this is the best weight i've ever shifted on these.

Uprights: 50k - failed on 5
45k - 6

cybex delt press: 100k - fail on 3rd
60k - 10 and again, a faster tempo with lower weight.

cable side lats: 15k - L - 8, R - 8

V bar press: 90k - 10
95k - failed on 6th.

I came home early from uni today with the intentions of getting an hours nap to make up for last nights rattamahatta but i watched Shrek instead. Ace film. If i had stayed at uni i wouldnt have paid attention anyway.

I have cardio and a sunbed tomorrow.

11-20-2001, 11:28 AM

and yes...you were quite drunk last night. ;)

11-20-2001, 11:38 AM
Did you make it?

11-20-2001, 11:42 AM
talk to the boss.

11-20-2001, 11:44 AM
I think i talk to myself enough as it is Wina.

11-20-2001, 11:48 AM

i didn't mean you silly...

11-20-2001, 09:22 PM
Chicken Daddy - I've had that feeling before too but once I hit the gym and get a pump it's all gravy. Wouldn't it be sick if once you got a pump you stayed like that all the time!?!?! I mean full and vascular and shiat! Anyways good job on your training and diet. Keep it up. Oh wait how old are you? I'm 18 and I thought your around my age right?

11-21-2001, 09:22 AM
Yes Marcel, I am indeed 18 and have been since only July. Thanks for the compliments man.

Ok, diet has been spot on today. I've been quite tired all day despite going to bed last night earlier than ever and getting more sleep than i have the past few weeks. Ironic that...

I still managed to fire up for some hardcore cardio though: 10 minutes on the bike followed by 10 minute sprinting intervals on the tready. I also mustered up a quick ab training session that lasted the best part of Ooooooo...thirty seconds.

I also had a sunbed too. Rather hot it was - i switched the body cooler off to do a bit O' sweating, just for the hell of it. I think it made me more hardcore for the cardio.

I shall go shopping tonight for this weeks grub and all shall be well.

I have a full day at uni tomorrow but i'll still try and squeeze out some cardio on the night time providing i have time and the energy to walk to the gym haha...


Paul Stagg
11-21-2001, 10:04 AM
Turning off the cooler is definately more hardcore.

Hardcore tanning to go with the hardcore cardio.

11-21-2001, 10:09 AM
hey he burned his willy tanning once. if that ain't hardcore, i don't know what is....

11-22-2001, 01:05 PM

anyway, this is just a flying input. I've had a full day at uni today and i wanna watch some stuff on tv later, so i have been doing some work for school, getting it out of the way. This meant i didn;t have time to go to the gym to do cardio so i did it at home on my mam's crappy stationary bike. I wasn't planning on doing any running today anyway because my back is still sore from sunday's squats. It needs it's rest.

Anyway, i only did 10 minutes cause the bike isn't at the right setting and hurts my legs [not the good pain.]

Anyway, i feel more awake and alert today than i have done in a long time. There's nothing quite like drugs :thumbup:

i have back and bicheps tomorrow. I shall update then.

Au revoir.

11-23-2001, 09:06 AM
ok, decent session.

close reverse grip Pulldowns: 125k - 8
130k - 5
T bars: 62.5k - 6 These aren;t sticking anymore it would seem, or at least i hope!
45k - 10 [faster rep tempo]
One arm row machine: 42.5k: L - failed on 5, R - failed on 6
Cable row: 70k - 8 <~~~~back was fooked by then
BB shrugs: 110k - 12
130k - failed on 4th

BB curl: 45k - 8 <~~ slight assistance on last rep.
50k: failed on 2nd. Not quite ready for this weight yet.
Incline DB curls: 18kx2 - 5
seated DB curls: 14kx2 - 10 each arm with a fast rep tempo.

that's it. Diet has been spot on. I have cardio tomorrow morning where i shall try the 30/30 HIIT sprinting for about 15-20 minutes in total.

I also weigh-in tomorrow so we'll see how much the meal on monday has affected me.

11-23-2001, 10:29 AM
why do you do 3 different bicep exercises?

11-23-2001, 10:44 AM
Good question.

I usually barely do any direct bicep work. Usually 2 sets at the most, but i've been experimenting a bit lately. BB curls are a fixed staple in my routine. The rest i improvise.

I tried incline curls for fun basically, and the seated db curls was because i am currently experimenting with a faster rep tempo and i wouldn't feel comfortable doing fast curls on an incline so i moved to plain ole' seated.

11-23-2001, 11:08 AM

11-24-2001, 05:46 AM

Righty, i did my morning cardio today, and here's a brief explanation of how i do it: [thanks to matt powerman for this btw]

i'll refer to a 'block' as 3-4 minutes of 30/30 intervals followed by 3 minutes cool-down, or rest [still moving though]. So this block can either be 6 or 7 minutes long. Also, when i sprint, i fookin' sprint! The only poblem with this is that the tready takes time to get up and down in speed so in reality i'm only sprinting for about 20 seconds and only walking for 20 seconds. The remaining 20 seconds of each minutes is pretty much me increasing or decreasing speed. Either way, it's a killer!

Ok, i warmed up on the stationary for 2 minutes to get blood into my legs and then went straight to it.

I managed 2 blocks on the tready. After only one it felt like there was a lighter being held to my heart and throat. Nice.

I then tried one block on the stationary, which although was good, was nothing compared to the sprinting. I see good potential in this HIIT, especially as far as morning cardio goes. All in all the session lasted just under 20 minutes, which made me happy cause i was hungry.

I weighed in this morning 1lb heavier. This could be due to the meal on monday night, but i also reckon i've put some muscle on this week, so i'm not too concerned.

That's 20 weeks done folks, and only 4 more to go! I can not wait. :)

11-25-2001, 04:56 AM
full day of rest today, which i shall enjoy...well, at least i would if i didn't have all this crappy work to do for uni.

today has been ace for diet, but i've had a bad stomach for a lot of the day. Not sure where that's coming from.

I'm gonna try and make tomorrow's diet ace too by going home between lessons twice tomorrow. Usually i'd only do it once but i can't be arsed to make an oatmeal bar right now. Tomorrow is also a low carb day so if i used an mrp i'd be hungry as shiat. Tuesday's full day at uni also means i'll be hungry then so i don't want to make it 2 days on the trott.

I have leg day tomorrow which i am well looking forward to. Hopefully my squat ressurgence will continue, i'll get about 6-8 with 115k and i can throw 120k onto the bar to see how it feels. it's getting exciting now. My legs are starting to look ace too. I would like to be squatting 125k again before i take my week and a half off in 4-5 weeks over christmas. With any luck i may be squatting 130k in that time, but that is a 15k increase which is a lot when we're talking about these figures. It's 33lbs. That's a 286lb squat too. That'd be nice.

I'll update this again tomorrow after training.

11-26-2001, 12:26 PM
God-awful session today. I just wasn't with it. My warm ups were tiring me for fucks sake.

squats: 115k [253lbs] - 6
press: 245k [539lbs] - 7 i had no energy for these and had to give up half way through.
hacks: 45k [99lbs] - 11 ss Extensions: 60k - 8
curls: 42.5k - R - 7, L - 7
seated calf: 70k - 7
standing calf: 125k - 12
seated calf: 30k - 20
standing calf: 55k - 18

i was glad to be out of the gym. I've been on the move all day and it really has taken it's toll. I need to get more sleep tonight so chest doesn't suffer the same fate.

Solution: i need more drugs.

that's all.

11-26-2001, 12:30 PM

do you think the low carbs affected your session, or perhaps your getting sick?

11-26-2001, 01:00 PM
Sorry to hear about that mate. Try and get some much deserved kip.

Also, can you remind me of your current vit and mineral intake

11-27-2001, 03:09 AM
Should have drank a glucose drink if you felt like that.

11-27-2001, 03:42 AM
I put it down to several reasons:

lack of sleep
low cals taking toll
low carbs on that day
being on the move all day
spending a lot of the day at uni
lack of caffiene in my system

fran, vits:

calcium/vit D

post train:
vit E
vit C
vit B

before bed:
Vit B6

Btw, it wasn't as bad as i made it out last night, i was just annoyed and frustrated. I still got the weight i wanted for squats, i upped reps on hacks and i had a good calf session, but compared to sessions of recent weeks it wasn't very good. I think i'm just a bit stressed from University work that needs to be done.

11-27-2001, 11:58 AM
Last night was nice. I had a hot shower, got some food, put on a pot of green tea, threw on some classical music and sat in my conservatory next to the heater and actually did the work i told myself i was gonna do. cool.

My protein arrived on monday too - strawberry promax is very nice. It tastes exactly how a milkshake should taste suprisinly, and i'm not being sarcastic there either.

I had a full day at uni again so i was quite tired, but i had a cup of coffee and woke up some what. I had some food and went to the gym to do chest and triceps. As you may notice, i didn;t do my normal routine. I cut volume down even further and dropped a few exercises. Here's how it went:

DB bench: 38k[76lbs]x2 - 6
40k[88lbs]x2 - 4 + 1
Weighted dips: +25k[55lbs] - 6
+27.5k[ 60.5lbs] - 4 with a slow neg on the 5th ss BW - 5 [failed on 6]
DB flyes: 32k[70.4lbs]x2 - 3

Seated skulls: 55k[121lbs] - 5 + 1 good set this. So much so that a second was not necessary.

All sets were done with a lot less rest between them than usual, which explains why strength began to fade as the session wore on. I'm pleased with the session.

My timetabel is good tomorrow so i'll definately do cardio [i'll have a sunbed too], but on thursday i have another full day at school, so if i am too tired i will take the evening off cardio to rest up fully for the back/delts/bis session on friday.

That's all.

11-28-2001, 08:27 AM
Last night's sleep was pretty awful. It took me ages to get to sleep and when i finally did i had to get up in the middle of the night for a piss. Guess what? getting BACK to sleep was another pain in the ass.

I had a very hot 15 minutes on the sunbed today and followed it up with 20 minutes cardio that i just wasn't up for [as usual.] I'd prolly have been better off just going home and grabbing 40 winks, but what can you do...

At this point in time i have no intentions of doing cardio tomorrow night - i think the full day at school is enough for that and besides, i'd rather rest.

good day.

11-28-2001, 08:31 AM
well you certainly don't sound like your usual chipper self, i'll tell you that.

11-28-2001, 08:40 AM
No ****.

I'm fed up, Tina.

11-28-2001, 08:44 AM
fed up?

por que es? actually...come meet me in chat?

11-28-2001, 08:48 AM
How old are you, chickendaddy?

11-28-2001, 09:14 AM

11-28-2001, 10:59 AM
ever try the "stand up" sunbed things? they are pretty cool

Paul Stagg
11-28-2001, 12:16 PM
Fed up?

Share with the class.

Is the drain of dieting and cardio wearing on you?


Have a nice day.

11-28-2001, 03:49 PM
I'm sticking with it ain't i...

11-29-2001, 08:07 AM
Again, i had trouble getting to sleep last night, but right now i feel fine. I've felt quite refreshed all day infact. Go figure :confused:

I put on some jeans and a smart jumper today for the presentation i had to do [it went fine btw] and i realised that my jeans are seriously loose now, which = ace.

Despite all this i figure it best to not go through with cardio and instead just enjoy a day off before i destroy my back and delts tomorrow. Should be fun.


Paul Stagg
11-29-2001, 08:33 AM

11-30-2001, 08:31 AM
Ace. That's just what i needed after a pooey anti-energetic week that i've had. A great back workout. Today has been a higher carb day and i waited till i had three of my carb meals down before i hit the gym to ensure a great session.

Close reverse grip pulldown: 130k - 6
130k - 4.5

T-Bars: 62.5k - 7 with really slow neg
62.5k - 7 wow! I wasn't expecting that!

Cybex Delt press: 100k - 7 fuuuck this felt good!
100k - 5 + 1 fuuuuuck again!

Uprights: 45k - 4/5 delts were fuked by now.
BB shrug: 110k - 6

BB curl: 50k - 2 + 1
45k - 3

And done.

Definately a good workout, thoroughly enjoying too. Let's hope i can carry this onto tomorrow's morning cardio and hopefully through till monday's leg session.

I weigh in tomorrow morning too so i'll update then.

Oh great, i start my christmas shopping tomorrow :rolleyes:

11-30-2001, 08:34 AM
hey chigs you know what i was thinking? i've been having trouble sleeping the past couple nights myself. i think it's the full moon.

11-30-2001, 08:37 AM
yeah, and this hair i've been growing on my palms and back is pissing me right off.

other than that, the only other thing that seems to need trimming are my teeth.

11-30-2001, 08:42 AM
ermm...well maybe if you went to sleep when you say you are "going to sleep" your palms wouldn't be so hairy! tuttut

11-30-2001, 08:44 AM
nah...you've lost me there T.

11-30-2001, 08:52 AM

nevermind chigs...

12-01-2001, 04:00 AM
well...i certainly have some interesting news for mr Angelini.

Anyway, i woke up at 9am to do my cardio, but i was just too tired so i went back to sleep for 90 minutes. Because of this it's now too late for morning cardio because i need to go and make a start on my christmas shopping today.

I'm not overly bother in all honesty, again, i think a rest day would do me good - especially after this week. I'd rather have 2 days rest and have an ace leg session on monday.

Anyhoo, i measured my waist this morning too while i wasn't holding any food or water. It's 33" round my navel :eek: I started out at 36-38 or something daft like that! No wonder my jeans were falling off me on thursday!

12-01-2001, 10:03 AM
Almost all my christmas shopping is done now, and because of this, today's meal timings and water consumption has been crap. But alas...

I've also boght myself loads of sweeties too for christmas - 1k of dairy milk :drooling: a tub of malteasers :drooling: almond shortckae :drooling: and a tub og heros :drooling:

I've also got loads of traditional stuff to eat of christmas day too like stollen, christmas log, mince pies etc...


12-01-2001, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
nah...you've lost me there T.

I think she's implying that you're an "expert fisherman"- you know, a Master Baiter. :D

12-01-2001, 11:32 AM
*lol* well i'm glad someone got it. even if it was monkeyboy.

anyway..chigs...your christams shopping was for food? or rather sweets?? here i was thinking you had to buy gifts..*lol*

12-01-2001, 01:33 PM
both T.

I've got myself lots of sweeties, but i've also got the majority of my gift shopping done now. Now i can put focus onto school work that i want done before christmas.

12-03-2001, 12:20 PM
ok, leg day - a much improved session since last week:

squats: 120k - 4 but i gotta admit, they weren't all full reps. I think i'm gonna keep having a stab at this weight every session until it begins to feel easier and i feel more comfortable doing the reps all full.
100k - 6

Leg press: 245k - 12 much improved from last week's catastrophe but i don't plan to up the weight yet. These really make my ass sore.

Hacks: 45k - 12 well, it was an extremely long set compared to the average set and it killed me like something not right, but i managed my 12 reps. I'll up the weight next week.

Extensions: 80k - 6

Leg curls: 42.5k - 7 on both legs

Seated calf: 70k - 7 very slow reps with a 2 second pause at the bottom.
Standing calf: 125k - 13 i just kept going baby!

Seated calf: 32.5k - 20 fast reps which burned like fook.
standing calf: 55k - 20 fast reps that burned like fook.

I also did ab work this session, but not much haha...

Good session all in all.

I have chest/delts/tris tomorrow along with a full day at uni :( so i'll update after that.

12-04-2001, 12:18 PM
Bench: 90k - 3 + 1
- 3 + 1
Decline machine press: 220k - 5 + 1 + 2 negs
dips: +27.5k - 4
- 3
uprights: 40k - 10
45k - 4
delt press: 100k - 3 + 1
70k - 5/6
close grip bench: 60k - 5 + 1
- 4

The close grip bench felt better with an olympic bar than with an EZ bar.

Cardio tomorrow.

12-07-2001, 09:03 AM
i didn't do cardio and didn't do any yesterday either. I also have no plans on doing any tomorrow either.

i did back today - a nice enjoyable short session. It took about 30 minutes. If i trained alone it would have been about 15-20 minutes.

CG pulldown: 130k[286lbs] - 4 + 2
130k - 3 + 1
T bars: 62.5k[137.5lbs] - 7 + 1
65k[143lbs] - 4
wide grip chins: set of 8 negatives with bw.

Hammers: 18kx2 [40lbers] - 5 ES
18kx2 - 5 ES

that it baby. I weigh in tomorrow and shall update then.

12-08-2001, 05:14 AM
week 22. Dropped 0.5lbs.

12-10-2001, 03:29 AM
After much deliberation i have decided to go back to this diet after the new year, at least till the end of Jannuary. Only when i see my new university time table will i decide whether to continue after that.

12-10-2001, 11:53 AM

squat: 120k - 4 [full reps B ;) although the last one was debatable]
100k - 6
100k - 4
hacks: 50k - 10!
50k - 8
Ext: 80k - 5
Leg curls: 42.5k - 5 on both legs
seated calf: 70k - 8 + 1
standing calf: 125k - 14
seated calf: 35k - 14 fast
standing calf: 60k - 15 fast

all in all a good session. i'm pleased with it. I've dropped leg press for now.

I plan on getting up early tomorrow and training chest and tris early before uni. I want to get some work done tomorrow night and i don't want training interfering.

zat iz eet.

12-10-2001, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

squat: 120k - 4 [full reps B ;) although the last one was debatable]

I'll give you full credit anyway. ;) Nice.

12-11-2001, 04:28 AM
cheers man.

I moved to DB bench cause i have a slight pain in the left side of my left trap when i do BB benching and DB's also don't seem to aggrivate my right elbow like BB is beginning to do the dumb goat bastard.

DB bench: 40k x2 3 + 2
38k - 6 + 1
weighted dips: +27.5k - 5 + 3 negs
20k - failed on 5th.

CG BP: 60k - 8
65k - 4 + 1

that's all folks. Diet will be non-supplementational today also. ace ace.

My lower back is still sore from dem squats so i might not do cardio tomorrow. I will, however, go for a sunny B.

12-14-2001, 09:11 AM
great workout.

Close reverse grip pulldowns: 130k - 6 + 1
130k - 4 + 1
T bars: 65k - 4 + 3
65k: 3 + 1

Delt press: 100k - 3 + 1
90k - 4 + 1
one arm machine side lats: 40k: L - 11, R - 12
55k: L - 5, R - 5

Seated Hammers: 18kx2 - 8 ES
20kx2 - 5 ES

I then did some quick forearm and ab work. I need to do these more often and more regulalry.

Depending on how icey it is when i wake up tomorrow morning, i may go out and do some morning cardio - about 10-15 minutes running, maybe even HIIT. But if it's too icey i won't cause all my trainers have little/zero grip and i'd fall straight on my face.

I weigh in tomorrow, although i'm not really confident of much weight loss. I'll update then.

Belial is a tosser. Just thought i'd say...

12-15-2001, 05:09 AM
well i did go for a morning jog. it was quite cool although it wasn't HIIT. I just ran around my estate for about 20-25 minutes.

I weighed in 0.5lbs heavier this week which could well be muscle since i've progressed on almost everything this week and since i haven;t done cardio in two weeks until this morning.

That's 23 weeks with one more official week to go. This is the final furlong :D

12-15-2001, 06:51 AM

what are you? royal or something?

12-17-2001, 07:35 AM

12-17-2001, 12:28 PM
That's me.

I did legs today and a good workout it was. I met almost all my workout goals. I didn't quite hit my 4 full reps with 120k. I blame my lower back. it needs strengthening, hence why i have introduced SLDL's. I need to sort this out. Squats are becoming more of a lower back/ass exercise rather than a total lower body exercise.

Squats: 120k - 3.5
110k - 3
100k - failed on 6 [and left the bar on the pins :)]

Hacks: 50k - 12
50k - 10 [time to up the weight on these, but i doubt i will cause of my week off next week.]

SLDL's: 90k - 8
100k - 6 [these were no problem really. I haven't conventionally deadlifted in months so to get this much quite easily on weaker exercise is fantastic. My hams are crying right now of course... I'm almost quite disappointed that i won't be doing these next week and have to wait a whole 14 days before i can try them again.]

Seated calf: 70k - 9
standing calf: 125k - 15

fast sets:
seated calf: 35k - 18
standing calf: 60k - 18

ace workout. I even did abs. That's two workouts in a row!:eek: I'm making a habit out of this.

I'm gonna do chest tris tomorrow - shoulders have been put back to friday after back.

12-18-2001, 11:36 AM
My lower back was killing me today. damn SLDL's.

A guy in my gym was telling me before my workout, that he'd spent his session going for his upper chest. To humour him i told him he needed to develop his inner chest too.

His response?

"Yeah i'm doing close grips tomorrow."

Unfortunately the guy is a brick poo house and his chest is phenomenal. Agear heed too by the way.

DB bench: 40k - 4
38k - 5
Dips: + 27.5k - 5 + 3 negs
+ 27.5k - 3.5
Decline press: 220k - 4.5
Close grip BP: 65k - 5 + 3
70k - 3

There's a real sticking point on my close grip just before lockout.

12-18-2001, 02:11 PM
Your tri's might need to be brought up a bit more:)

12-18-2001, 03:53 PM
quite possible man, but i think it's also due to my tris being fooked by that point.

i'll definately look into arm position though thanks fran.

12-21-2001, 01:22 PM
Last training session before my well deserved and well needed week's rest, and it was a sexy one.

C-R-G pulldown: 130k - 5 + 2
130k - 3 + 1
T bars: 65k - 6+1
65k - 4
W-G neg chins: bw - 8

Cybex delt press: 100k - 5 + 1. ace set.
100k - 4 +1
One arm machine side laterals: 55k - 8 [es]
60k - 4 [es]

Seated hammers: 20kx2 - 8 [es]
22kx2 - 5 [es]

that's it.

i weigh in tomorrow for what would have been my final week of cutting, but since i'm staying on at work i'm gonna stick with it for a few more weeks after christmas.

I'll update tomorrow.

12-22-2001, 02:52 AM
I clocked in at 13st 3lbs today which is 185lbs. That's an increase of 1lb since last week and that's the third week on the trott where i've actually added weight.

My training partner told me yesterday that i am at the leanest he's ever seen me at. ace.

I was planning on taking some photos this morning but i looked quite flat as i woke up. Maybe i'll wait until februrary to take them...

P.S. Fran = a dude.

that is all.

12-22-2001, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
My training partner told me yesterday that i am at the leanest he's ever seen me at. ace.

You made it this far and you have done a superb job :thumbup:

P.S. Fran = a dude.


12-26-2001, 05:20 AM
Today i'm back on to the diet I haven't followed since last friday.

I've enjoyed the break i'll admit but i've also missed the blandness :eek: :confused: haha

Anyhoo, i'm gonna do legs on friday and then saturday morning will be some kind of upperbody supreme session. After that i'll rest again until friday when i'll resme usual training starting with back and shoulders.

I'm off to the match later. I can't wait woo hoo!

I'll update this again after friday's session.

12-28-2001, 12:10 PM
first session back in a week, what better way to re-commence than with a leg session. Excuse the number of squat sets, but i was just finding my footing again.

squats: 100k - 4
120k - 2
110k - 4
100k - 4

hacks: 50k - 8
50k - 6

SLDL: 100k - 10
120k - failed on the first after my grip gave out. I think it was cause i used the straps. next time, screw them. I also need to do more forearm and grip work to assist this.

i did a similar calf routine to usual but did not record anything - same for abs - nothing was written down.

I weigh i tomorrow to see the damage of christmas.

Tomorrow i pulverise upper body which should be fun.

12-29-2001, 07:15 AM
The christmas damage has been assessed.

last week i was 13st 3 [185lbs]. this week i am 13st 9.5 [191.5lbs]. yes, that is a 6.5lb increase in 7 days. nice. I'd guess 3lbs fat and the rest muscle and water.

Total upper body anihilation today. was fun. No spotter though so no forced reps were performed.

decline machine press: 200k - 8
240k - 1
220k - 5

T bar: 60k - 5
65k - 3
50k - 6

weighted dips: +20k - 8
+25k - 4

W-G chin negs: bw - 8
+20k 6

Standing Military: 60k - 3
50k - 6

uprights: 45k - 3
40k - 6

C-G bench: 60k - 8 no problemo
65k - 5

Seated Hammers: 22kx2 - 5 ES
22kx2 - 4 ES

It didn't take too long to get through it either, which was a nice suprise.

Anyhoo, another week off until next friday when i'l re-commence usual training, starting with a nice back session. lovely jubbley.


12-29-2001, 08:48 AM
i know you can eat, but i would think even 3lbs fat is over the top, chigs. that's something like 10,500 calories, over and above what AMR. never underestimate the waterbloat from too many carbs. i know i'm holding about 5lbs of water myself at the moment, combining diet and hormones together.

are you gonna refocus back on your diet this week?

12-29-2001, 08:58 AM
how much does water weight fluctuate?

if 2 guys have the same weight in muscle and fat and one is totally bloated with water and the other is really dehydrated how much will they differ in weight?>

12-29-2001, 09:04 AM
i'd say on average maybe 6lbs. although i think yates said when he ate again after his comps he gained something like 13lbs in a couple days.

12-29-2001, 09:05 AM
yatesnightblade or Dorian Yates?

12-29-2001, 09:11 AM
my yates, silly. i have no idea what dorian does. *lol*

12-29-2001, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Tryska
my yates, silly. i have no idea what dorian does. *lol*

Drugs mostly.

And i dunno T, i was eating a helluva lot for 4 days. i've been back on diet for 3 before i weighed in. how long do you think i'll hold the water for?

12-29-2001, 02:07 PM
i typically hold for about 7 or 8 days after starting back eating right.

01-01-2002, 08:24 AM
i was gonna do a review of this journal but i've encountered some problems.

a] i haven't deadlifted conventionally for about six months so comparison is pointless.

b] i never squated when i first began this journal.

c] i never recored weight or bf back then, although i'm guessing it was around about 200lbs with a 20%+bf. Right now i'm around 190 and i have a significantly reduced bf - about 12% we'll say.

I have big ambitions for this coming year, not only physique wise, but learning and experience wise.

01-04-2002, 01:18 PM
what a terrible journal review. Anyhoo...

Just done back/delts there. nicety nice.

CG pulldowns - 120k - 7
130k - 3
T bars: 65k - 4
60k - 5
WG neg chins: 6 Damn slow too. Tried some of them shrug down thingies Belial goes on about.

Delt press: 100k - 4
60k - 9
Uprights: 40k - 7
45k - 4
BB shrugs: 120k - 5 this was too heavy coming back after not shrugging for a good month or two.

Seated hammers: 22kx2 - 6 ES
22kx2 - 4 ES.

I'm debating whether or not to try using the days when i do delts after chest for higher reps in the 10-12 region and using the days when i do delts after back for lower reps in the 3-6 region instead of mixing them up each time. any input?

I weigh in tomorrow. I'm off to the match again too, woo!

01-04-2002, 01:42 PM
Shrug downs rock.....thats what i hear anyways.....u do them with your body weight or at the pull down rack??

01-04-2002, 02:26 PM

eventually i'll start adding weight for these each week, or at least every second week when i plan to do them.

Joe Black
01-04-2002, 04:59 PM
rob asked me to put this pic of him up.

01-04-2002, 05:04 PM
yes, that was after the surgery.

01-04-2002, 05:07 PM
chigs..you and delphi must swing from the same family tree!

01-05-2002, 06:50 AM
Good work Robboe

01-05-2002, 07:24 AM

well, i've only put on 1 lb this week which suprises me greatly.

I weigh 13st 10.5 or 192.5lbs.

01-07-2002, 06:46 AM
ST@Toon = T- 24h

01-07-2002, 01:20 PM

squats: 115k - 3 [i knew this would happen]
105k - 6 these felt like 500k

hacks: 50k - 12 ace
55k - 12! [i have no idea where the hell them last 11 reps came from.]

SLDL: 100k - 6
110k - 6

i did calves and abs also.

ace. chest tomorrow.

01-08-2002, 11:57 AM
the slight pinching pain at the back of my shoulder - kinda between rear delt and scapula is really starting to piss me off. any ideas? I think it went away during my rest weeks but last friday's uprights and shrugs may have aggrivated it. I hurts when my arms go too far down on BB bench, but DB's don't really seem to effect it at all.

DB press: 38k x2 - 8!
38k x2 - 4 + 2

good start back!

Decline machine press: 220k - 4
220k - 3 + 1

dips: +25k - 3
+20k - failed on 5th

CG bench: 65k - 5 + 7
65k - 4

these kinda touched my pain the bar stards.

good session overall.

01-11-2002, 12:46 PM
ah, i love back day. nice and refreshing.

Notice that i swapped standing millys for the seated cybex delt press. this is firstly kinda cause of my stalled progression on the seated ones, but also due to my slight back nag. I don;t think the fixed plane of motion of the machine is doing any harm, but i don;t think it is helping either. I also threw in some rear delt work incase the pain is from a muscle imbalance.

CG pulldowns: 125k - 6 + 1 [put weight down for this week. hopefully i shall be back to 130 quite comfortably soon.]
125k - 4 + 1

T bars: 65k - 4 + 1
45k - 8

Millys: 60k - got like 4.8 reps - basically i failed on the 5th.
50k - 8.8 [failed on 9th :)]

One arm DB side laterals: 12k - 8 ES [done one at a time]
14k - 6 ES drop to 8k - 10 [burn!]
rear delt work: 10k - 10
10k - 8 [i'll keep this weight the same for next week until i am positive my form is textbook. i haven;t done them in a while so i may have 'slipped out' of the fashion.]

Seated Hammers: 22k - 7 ES
22k - 5 ES [as usual these progressed again. I'm having a wail of a time with this exercise for my bicheps. they're working a charm.]

i did some behind the body forearm cable curls first with 70k for 20 and then 100 for like 8. No problemo.

no abs today. I fancied my food earlier.

I weigh in tomorrow after the first official full week back since the rest and diet lay-off. Should be interesting.

I shall update then.


01-12-2002, 12:33 PM
forgot to update this thing.

just a quick one: dropped 2lbs this week.

Alice in chains kick proverbial ass.

that is all.

01-14-2002, 12:56 PM
leg day on low carbs...

squats: 100k - 5
110k - 4 dropped weight in favour of going even deeper. this really is as far as i can go now.

front squats [for the hell of it]: 50k - 8 got really deep but they felt quite tiring for my delts which i'll need fresh for tomorrow's chest session. dunno about these totally. the bar was choking my adam's apple too.

hacks: 60k - 6
50k - 6 ss extensions: 60k - 7

SLDL: 110k - 6
115k - 6 slowly but surely they're building up.

did calves and abs too. that it.

01-15-2002, 12:03 PM
CG BP dropped for now until this nagging pain disperses. Hmmm, that is spelt so wrong and i care not. Woo.

DB bench: 38k x2 - 6
38k x2 - 5

Weighted dips: +25k - 6 slowly getting back up. I'm thinking of using these for higher reps incidentally.
+15k - 8 Higher reps as in 8-10 btw

pek dek: 70k - 5 purely while i was waiting for the rack for BB press.

BB millies: 60k - 4
50k - 8 then with little rest, only to change weights;
35k - 7
DB side lats: 14k - 4 dropped: 10k - 8

V bar pressdown: 100k - failed on 8th
85k - 9


01-18-2002, 11:12 AM
back day. Since not doing shoulders today my biceps didn;t progress but so feck, my back did.

CG pulldown: 130k - 5 + 1
130k - 4 + 1

T - bars: 65k - 4 + 1
47.5k - 8

WG negative chins: bw - 6 i was going for 10 but was fooked nicely by this point. did like three shrug downs too...

seated hammers: 22k - 5 ES
22k - 4 ES

then went on to do some quick forearm and ab work.

I weigh in tomorrow and shall update then.


01-19-2002, 04:56 AM
dropped 1lb since last week.

That's 2.5 weeks solid cutting since new year and i'm going strong. I want to get 4.5 weeks under my belt before i even consider another cheat day.

I need to go to the health store for their half price sale and see if i can get some cheapy vits. Hopefully some extra biotin too.

01-20-2002, 04:09 PM
I got some cheapy chromium and some not so cheap biotin. :(


01-21-2002, 02:28 PM
I enjoyed every single moment of this. I trained alone too cause my bud had too much college work to do to wait for me. He trained eariler in the day. I may have to train alone tomorrow as well since i have to go to the dentist.

Squats: 105k - 7 as deep as i can go. Every rep was too. Felt good.
110k - 4 another ace set.
80k - 10

Hacks: 60k - 5 anyone got any idea how heavy the hack sled is?
40k - 10

SLDL: 115k - 6
120k - 3 my grip gave out. Straps start as of next week. I could have easily managed 6+ reps with this weight.

Calves + ab training.

I'm gonna experiment with 4 days low carbs, one day high carb to load up then 3 days low carbs, one day high and then repeat this pattern. I'll monitor energy and strength levels very closely. I hope this will work well. After two weeks if i'm no happier i'll revert back to my traditional method, because at least on this i know i can loose fat and gain muscle.

01-21-2002, 03:28 PM
I know this is late, but I thought I'd mention that when I carb up for just two meals, my weight increases by about 10-15 pounds each time. And this has happened multiple times.

01-21-2002, 03:59 PM

01-21-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
SLDL: 115k - 6
120k - 3 my grip gave out. Straps start as of next week. I could have easily managed 6+ reps with this weight.

You pansy! Heh, j/k did you try alternating your grip? I know I had trouble as well until I used an alternating grip and haven't had any issues at all so far...I just wouldn't make straps a habit or overuse them too much. Sure if you are maxing but your grip will catch up eventually...

01-21-2002, 04:20 PM
I have never felt comfortable alternating grip.

01-22-2002, 02:40 PM
Great push session. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

DB bench: 38k x2 - 7/8 [got a smidgen of help :)] + 1-2 I was very impressed with this, especially since i've been running on low carbs for 3 days now. Very impressed.
40k x2 - 4 + 1 <~~~ not an official 'forced rep', just assistance in getting to lockout.

One exercise down and feeling ace.

Weighted dips: +25k - 8 the reps suprisingly just kept on coming. Nice one.
+ 27.5k - 5 ace! This may be a PB. Or maybe i need to get 1-2 extra reps before it is. I don't recall ever managing 30k round my waist. Let's hope it becomes reality soon.

Decline machine press: 220k - 5 + 2 negatives

Millies: 60k - 4 No improvement from last week, but this'll be due to the extra exercise for chest and the beyond failure training.
50k - 7

DB side lats: 14k - 6 left arm was a bit weaker.
12k - 6 again, left was weaker.

V-bar pressdown: 100k - 7 supersetted w/
rope pressdown: 60 - 5

and my that was the end of that chapter.

The pain in my back seems to have subsided, but i'm not gonna risk benching again till next week maybe, providing the pain doesn;t come back. I'll do CG BP if it doesn't.

That's two weeks in a row i've done delts with chest and tris. I'm now doing an official legs/push/pull routine. I'll see how progression goes. Shoudl be interesting.

I'm also toying with the idea of moving monday's leg day to sunday afternoon. That was my chest session won;t suffer from a grueling leg workout, especialy now that i'm doing delts every week then too.

Oh well...

01-24-2002, 05:20 AM
article on DR Squat about alternating over/under eating, reckons it works for him, mostly changes by the week not daily though

01-24-2002, 09:33 AM
Had my higher carb day today. It went well.

I drank lots of water too. The bloated feeling didn't last very long.

One thing i hate about high carb days is that once you've had your carb quota for the day and you begin to leave them out of meals, the declining insulin makes you feel really drained and fatigued. I got bad farts too.

I think i'll move leg day to sunday and take monday night off because that is the date of my next high carb day. I don;t want to be feeling fatigued for legs :eek:

01-24-2002, 09:48 AM
You ever seen a good fart?

01-25-2002, 11:45 AM
Of course! I've lit them before and they really do flame!

All this week training has been great despite low carbs. This has provided interesting results for me. Anyone else experience better strength/strength gains on low carbs too?

Maybe it's just this week tho - we shall see.

CG pulldown: 130k - 6 + 1 back to where it was. Time to work on this and get the weight up methink, within the next couple of weeks.
130k - 4 + 1

T bars: 65k - 7! gotta be a PB methinks. I've managed 6 i know but 7....

50k - 8 nice one. :)

DB rows: 60k - 4 damn. Just threw these in for fun. Haven;t done them in a while. Aye...the days when i could manage 10-12 with the 70k DB are long gone for now it seems.

50k - 8 No plans right now to do them again next week. Nice to do them again for once though.

Light DB shrugs: 34k x2 - 12 very slow, strict and controlled. Making sure i don;t aggrivate my back going straight back into heavy shrugs. I'll move up to 38ks next week if all goes well. I'll be back on the 60ks before long :)

Hammers: 22k x2 - 6 ES
22k x2 - 6 ES Not bad getting the same reps with the same weight on the second set...

I did some quick forearms - reverse with the DB's and behind the body wrist curls with a low cable.

I weigh in tomorrow. This morning i looked as lean as ever. I'm really beginning to appriciate all my efforts since July now.

01-25-2002, 01:09 PM
This is for Eric G - the simpleton.

CG pulldown: 286lbs - 6 + 1
286lbs - 4 + 1

[supported] T bars: 143lbs - 7
110lbs - 8

DB rows: 132lb - 4
110lb - 8

DB shurgs: 74lbers - 12

Hammers: 48lbers - 6 ES
48lbers - 6 ES

Happy now Eric? :)

01-25-2002, 01:16 PM
lol....funny bastard

01-25-2002, 01:17 PM
you know chigs....i was gaining somewhat while i was low-carbing....but now that i'm eating more carbs, i'm gaining a lot more.

01-25-2002, 07:45 PM
I feel better when low carbing too.

01-26-2002, 05:03 AM
yeah, strange eh?

Anyhoo, i'm down 3lbs after the extended low carb days - which was to be expected. I'll assess energy levels and general feeling after next weeks weigh in, and if i lose more than 2lb again i'll prolly team with Fran to orchestrate some changes.

My current weight is now 13st 4.5lbs or 186.5lbs for you Yanks.

I woke up and did some cardio too. Just shy of 15 minutes i jogged around the estate again. Not light cardio but not HIIT either. Hopefully my lower back and hams are getting more usd to the SLDLs that the soreness will have subsided sooner rather than later so i can do some AM cardio later in the week too. Incidentally, leg day is being forwarded to sunday [tomorrow] due to me starting back at uni again on Monday. I'm contemplating making this a permanent change. And on days where i have to do legs on Monday night i'll move chest day to wednesday before i go shopping. Only problem with this is that i'll have no training partner for this session cause he's at college all day wednesday. I can always ask for a spot when i need one, but it's not the same when you've been training with the same guy for the past 3 years or so.

Anyway, that's all for today.

01-26-2002, 12:40 PM
So I was just thinking. I love low carbing so much that maybe I will just go low carb and eat so much protein that it will just keep my glycogen stores full. I just feel so damn bloated on carbs.

Plus, if I wanted to lean out I could just lowere protein levels for a couple of days. Carbs would only be after lifting and then during refeeds every couple of days.

Thoughts? - since you seem to like low carbing as well.

01-26-2002, 01:17 PM
I just read something and it said that something about you being Robboe.. is this true?> Thats cool if it is because I always liked his posts over @ Elite.. hehe. Anyway good job on the workouts bro niec strength. I was really wowed @ the CG Pulldown strength.


01-26-2002, 01:19 PM
Couldn't be.

Robboe's a blatant homosexual.

01-26-2002, 05:31 PM
Thanks Matt. Always productive, as per usual...

MS, aye, Robboe tis I. Thanks for the compliment. I use the kind of pulldown that Dorian uses in "Blood & Guts". It's a great piece of machinery.

aeckhardt, that is a damn expensive way for mass gaining dude. And it's still early days with the low carbs thus far. It'll take at least 2 weeks before i can assess how things are shaping up, but i gotta admit it's looking good. I'll keep you posted :)

01-26-2002, 06:24 PM
Yeah its expensive, but for me it is easier. I can keep track of cals easily and I get to eat as much as i want when I go to the dining hall so why not. Plus, carbs make me so drowsy.

01-26-2002, 09:17 PM
Wow bro thats crazy. What specific kind of pull-down machine does Dorian use in Blood & Guts.


01-27-2002, 08:02 AM
MS, it's a hammer strength pulldown machine. I use the diagnal style grip that Dorian uses. I think it's great.

Here's some pics of Dorian actually doing it. I 'borrowed' these from muscleandfitness btw.



well, my actual machine isn;t a hammer stregnth and doesn;t match that one 100%, but it's very similar. Check out the full workout at http://www.muscleandfitness.com/training/p/3039.jsp

01-27-2002, 08:10 AM
aeckhardt, whatever you like man! :)

Anyway, leg day. I much appriciated doing legs today so i may make this a permanent fixture every time i can. Great session. Here's the weights - with conversions for the simpleton. He knows who he is ;)

Squats: 110k [242lbs] - 6
110k - 6
80k [176lbs] - 20! I was after about 10, but thought i could get 2 more out. After that i manged another 8. As you do...

Remember me telling you about that dude benching 5 plates a side for 2 reps? well he was back again, only this time managing 5 reps with 5 plates a side. Albeit, his last rep was awful with an extreme arch in his back. Anyhoo, i would have done hacks but this dude had moved onto it before i could get there.

So, front squats: 60k [132lbs] - 8
65k [143lbs] - 6 I liked these actually. I need to figure out the best grip for me. Maybe i'll do them instead of hacks for a while. who knows...

SLDL's - 120k [264lbs] - 7 these are getting good now. I remembered my straps this week too. ace.
125k [275lbs] - 5! this is a PB since this is the first time i've done SLDL's as a steady part of my routine.

I did calves and abs too. I'm gonna keep track of my calf workouts in my notebook but not online.

I have a high carb day tomorrow. I also start back at Uni tomorrow. I'm gonna have to remember how i can fit all my meals in while i'm there. Hopefully i'll be going to see Vanilla sky tonight too.

Righty, i'm off to watch the Newcastle match.

01-28-2002, 10:50 AM
No training today - push day tomorrow.

carb up day went smoothly today. Had some dried figs this morning. Damn they are tasty shiat!

As per usual with high carb days, i have really stinky farts right now, and cool enough, no carb cravings. Great!

i swapped some brazil nuts for an egg today for convienience at school. All meals were fine. I def think i have sussed the idea of eating perfectly while out the house without being looked upon funny.

next update will be with results of chest/delts/tri session tomorrow night.

01-28-2002, 10:56 AM
chigs..don't kid yourself. you will ALWAYS be looked upon as a little funny. ;)

j/k...that was a pretty nice leg day you had there man....

01-29-2002, 12:48 PM
yes, i know. I'm a freak.

I tried something slightly different today. I split my carbs for the day between two meals - brekkie and post train. I feel good, and my session, although a good one, in comparisson to last weeks, was not as good. Mostly because of the DB press and the militaries. I was hoping that yesterdays high carb day would fuel be up for it, but it didn't go as i had hoped. Anyway, check it out for yourselves.

DB bench: 40k [88lbers] x2 - 4 I had hoped for 6.
40k x2 - 4

Just a side note. For my first set, i picked up a DB, laid back and got it into position and accepted the other from my bud, only to realise that i wasn;t on the bench straight and consequently, began to fall off to one side. Luckily my bud is a dude and took one from me instantly as i fell to one side. If he hadn;t have been there i'd have been royaly fuked. Props to him. It was a bit of a shock too, and i think maybe took a rep out of my for my first set :mad:

Dips: + 27.5k [60.5lbs] - 5
+30k [66lbs] - failed on 5th.

That 30k set is a PB no btw. I'm pleased i've finally gotten a plate and half round my waist for these :D I'll keep this weight ofr a week or and work on upping reps to 6-8 region.

I did cable crossovers while waiting for the BB bench for a light set to test my back/shoulder.

cables: 40k x2 - 6 and dropped to 30k x2 for another 6.

I did one rep for the BB bench and felt a slight tug in my back/shoulder, so the hag isn't completely gone. I'll wait another 3-4 weeks before trying this again. I'm not too fussed about not being able to BB bench cause DBs are fine right now, but not being able to CG BP is pissing me off somewhat.

Militaries: 60k - 4 this is a regression. :mad: I'm not sure why either...
60k - failed on 3rd.
45k - 9

DB side laterals: 14k - 4 ES another regression, although i was slightly rushing at this point. Not rushing my exercises, but def reducing my standrad amount of time between sets.

12k - 4 ES

Front raises: 10k - 7 hopefully these may help my pressing movements.

Rear delts: 10k - 10

I'm thinking my shoulders let me down from the front squats from Sunday. I'm not entirely sure yet tho, but we shall see.

V bar press: 100k - 10 no problem.
100k - 6

and done.

I'm off to see Black Hawk down tonight. Looking forward to it.

01-29-2002, 12:51 PM
tip: always get your seated squarely on the bench before loading up.

01-29-2002, 01:17 PM
must be hard though while using DB's to load up "evenly". One side will have more weight than the other and this may throw you off. Eventhough if its only for a sec, with some heavy lbs (kg's for u brits) it seem like it would fuk me up.

01-29-2002, 01:22 PM
Thanks for the tip there Arnold.

Yes, Eric, it's a dirty bastard.

01-29-2002, 01:35 PM

Chris Rodgers
01-29-2002, 01:37 PM
Yeah dumbass. Kick those dumbells up from your knees like a real man. You prolly have him push up your elbows on every rep. :whiner:

01-30-2002, 03:34 AM

01-30-2002, 07:35 AM
thanks gents.

I was planning on doing some morning cardio this morning, but since i went to see black Hawk Down last i didn't get in till around midnight. I didn't bother. I dunno why but sleeping for like 9 hours makes me really groggy and lethargic. pisses me off.

I may do cardio tomorrow morning if i feel up to it, but uni is a full day tomorrow so chances are i won't bother.

I've been on my first sunbed in 8 weeks just there. damn that was relaxing...

01-30-2002, 07:41 AM
that happens to me sometimes too. I've got like a windo of opportunity between 7.5 and 8.5 hours to feel well rested....anymore or any less, and I'm up sh*ts creek without a paddle.

01-30-2002, 11:37 AM
Ditto..except mine's between like 6-7.5 :D

01-31-2002, 10:58 AM
Just a quick update: i feel great today. No lethargy or anything.

I didn't bother with cardio either. I'll make cardio a more prominant thing once i start to stall with weight loss as far as diet goes. I'll use cardio as my 'big guns' so to speak. Until then i'll just short jogs when i feel like it for cardiovascular conditioning and to prep me up for when i do start doing cardio more.

I have sore delts too, for the first time in months. I put this down to the raises i did tho.

I'll update this again after back/bi training tomorrow.

01-31-2002, 10:59 AM
glad to hear you got some decent rest. nice location, btw.

01-31-2002, 04:13 PM
Hey chicken,
I was wonderin if you could post your diet and how it has changed as you have gone through this cutting. I've looked for this stuff, but 17 pages or whatever is a lot to look through. Im wondering because judging by your ability to progress well through a long cutting diet, your diet must be pretty dopelicious. And when I cut I have a hard time maintaining the weight Im pushing. If you have already posted this stuff tell me i b dum and direct me there. Thanks a lot.

01-31-2002, 04:41 PM
It's been modified a lot since it's conception. I did start out at a really high bf% [like 20+ prolly more up to 24-25ish] my cutting methods were flawed in some areas i noticed ie. i'd eat protein only meals, used the 'cheat day' excuse far too often and seriously go over the top when i did. I have also always planned to diet down really slowly - which i have done and am continuing to do so.

Anyhoo, it began as carb rotation with 2 days low carbs, 2 days mod carbs then 2 days higher carbs. After this, i'd repeat the process.

Here's how it was:

Meal 1 - 64g oatmeal
2 whole eggs, 4 whites
scoop of whey

[593cals, 61.2g pro, 43.5g carbs, 11g fat]

Meal 2 - 200g chicken breast
58g brown rice
1tbsp flax

[491 cals, 50g pro, 43g carbs, 5g fat]

meal 3 - 200g chicken breast
1tbsp flax

[279 cals, 46g pro, 4g fat]

meal 4 - 149g tuna
2 tbsp flax

[261 cals, 38g pro, 8g fat]

meal 5 - 3 whole eggs, 3 white
149g tuna

[422 cals, 68g protein, 16.5g fat]

meal 6 - 46g oatmeal
2 scoops whey

[436 cals, 55.8g protein, 43g carbs, 4g fat]


2482 cals
319g protein
129g carbs
47.5g fat

for days 3 + 4:

eat 75g brown rice in meal 2 to give 55g carbs
77g oatmeal in meal 1 to give 53g carbs
60g oatmeal in meal 6 to give 53g carbs

this would give me 161carbs at the end of the day. Everything else stays the same.It also knocks cals up to 2610 [from my working out]

for days 5+6:

eat 86g oatmeal in meal 1 to give 58g carbs
79g brown rice in meal 2 to give 58g carbs
68g oatmeal in meal 6 to give 58g carbs
and add 79g brown rice to meal 3 to give 58g carbs.

Thsi would knock up carbs to 232g at the end of the day. Everything else stays the same. It also knocks cals up to 2894 [from my working out].

[from page 4 btw :)]

Anyhoo, i've always aimed for a 1-2lb drop each week. As expected, it hasn;t always been the case so admendments have been made and macros been reduced. Over the weeks this had reduced a lot in comparrison.

This is how it currently looks. I have integrated 4 days low carbs followed by a higher carb day then 3 days low carbs followed by a high carb day. Kinda NHE style, but i eat my carbs in the first 2 meals [and after training when it applies]. This has only been implemented from the past two week tho. It's going aight so far.

1. tuna, oats
2. chicken, oats
3. tuna, flax, green veg
4. chicken, one egg, green veg
5. 4 egg whites, one whole egg, green veg
6. tuna, one egg, green veg
7. chicken, one egg, green veg

for my higher carb day i follow the exact same pattern, only i eat more oats for the first two meals of the day.

I've reacted well to the low carbs too - prolly because over the 30 weeks i've been doing this i've become quite accustomed to them.

I started out at like 212.5 first thing in the morning at about 20-25%bf and i currently reside at 187 last time i weighed in and i dunno exactly about bf but since i don;t have a totally full set of abs i'm around about 11-12ish. I need to fix the battery for my callipers.

Is that what you wanted?

02-01-2002, 02:24 AM
No it's not.

Good work having 2 different protein sources with your meal. Really bumps the Amino count up. Good stuff.

02-01-2002, 04:42 AM
I'm getting hungry reading that lot

02-01-2002, 05:21 AM
You mess about with your diet alot rob. Have you not thought about just trying to pack on some serious muscle and sticking to a basic plan??

02-01-2002, 09:41 AM
That was amazing! Today is my fourth day on low carbs [carb up day tomorrow] and i was expecting a horrible workout. Quite the contrary! BTW, Belial, Since starting this cut some 30 weeks ago i've never been really near PB territory. Since starting this low carb rotation i've been gaining strength for fun, so i'm 'borrowing' ;) your method of illustrating PB's. Hope that's ok. :)

CG pulldown: 130k [286lbs] - 5 + 1 slight assistance on the final rep
135k [297lbs] - 4!

Good start!

T bar rows: 65k [143lbs] - 8! This is the most amount of reps i have ever done with this weight.

But not to be outdone...
67.5k [148.5lbs] - 5!
50k - 8

Machine pullover: 80k [176lbs] - 12! unfortunately this is as high as the stack goes, but i wasn;t expecting 12 reps either way!

Kneeling DB shrugs: 38k x2 - 12
40k x2 - 12

these are still nowhere near where my usual shrug was but i'm slowly and safely working them back up. The kneeling was great, thanks, B&I. No cheating and the initial pull of the weights to get into position is easy, unlike standing where that part takes a lot of you - especially if the weights are heavy.

Reverse machine flyes: 45k - 4
40k - 7

Seated hammers: 22k [48.4lbs] x2 - 8.5 ES! never done reps this high with this weight! Could finish the 9th rep tho.
24k [52.8] x2 - 2.5 ES! haha low reps i know, but this is all i could muster...especially after a session like that.

I followed it up with forearm work. Out of general interest, my forearms are really getting big again now. Ace.

Like i said, carb up day tomorrow. Prolly over 3-4 meals. I'll decide at the time.

I weigh in tomorrow. I have a feeling i'll be more than 2lbs lighter after these past 4 days of low carbs, but we shall see. Energy levels have been fine, despite wednesday's grogginess.

I'll update after weighing in.

BTW Yates, like i told you earlier, mass is not priority right now. I'm more concerned with lowering my bf right down. I have my reasons for this as you know. Remember, i'm only 18 and have plenty of time to add mass. Out of general interest, since dieting i have added some muscle as well as dropping fat.

that it.

02-01-2002, 09:45 AM
Very nice. :) You may borrow my notation. lol. Excellent weight on all those lifts. Amazing considering the low carbs...

02-01-2002, 09:57 AM
I know!

It's proving to be a rather interesting experience for me, this low carb malarkey...

02-01-2002, 10:34 AM
I have a light head now too...

02-01-2002, 04:48 PM
yah that's just what I was asking for. Thanks.
btw awesome job with the diet and that last back day in particular. Keep it up.

02-02-2002, 04:11 AM
hey thanks man, no problem. :)

weighed in today 1.5lbs lighter. Nice one. that leaves me currently at 13st 3lbs or 185lbs for you numbnuts.

I'm considering maybe having more frequent carb up days - such as every 3 days or every third then second day. I'm not sure yet tho.

02-03-2002, 09:19 AM
leg day. Good fun:

Squats: 110k [242lbs] - 6
115k [253lbs] - 4
90k [198lbs] - 12

Front squats: 65k [143lbs] - 8
70k [154lbs] - 8! Not a lot i know, but this is a PB since i've only been doing them for two weeks now.

SLDL's: 125k [275lbs] - 7 I pulled the bar off the pins instead of the floor today and i liked it muchos. [Gracias Senior Belial.] But putting it back on the pins at failure wasn;t too easy so i may work submaximally with this exercise.
130k [286lbs] - 4! Again, no much, but since i've only really started doing these it's a PB.

Calf and ab work.

All in all a good session. Chest on tuesday night. Aurevoir.

02-03-2002, 09:23 AM
oh yeah, forgot to mention ab work:

cable crunches: 100k [220lbs] - 20.

that is all.

02-05-2002, 02:21 PM
This is really unorthodox, but i seem to train better on low carbs. I thought it was a one off at first, but continually, my best training sessions come during low carb phase. I'm definately considering carrying this forward to gaining phase if trends continue.

great chest session. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

DB bench: 40k [88lbs] x2 - 5! Now this is strange. It's a PB for flat DB bench, but i gotta admit, i've done 6 reps with these on incline and i've had 3 reps with these on OH press for delts. Either way, i've never done that many reps with them for flat bench so a PB it is regardless.
40kx2 - 4

weighted dips: 30k [66lbs] - 5! One rep improvement from last week
30k [66lbs] - 5! Yes, i did the PB on the second rep too. I ain't complaining!

Decline machine press: 220k [484lbs] - 6! (+2 negs) Yes, i do believe this is the most amount of reps i have managed with this weight.

All in all, an ace chest workout...

Standing Militaries: 60k [132lbs] - 6.5 Now, this actually equals a PB on this lift, but i thought i better bold it now so i know it's a PB when i look back.
60k - 4
45k [99lbs] - 10 Just to let you know, this time last week i only managed 9 reps with this weight after completing the same weight for the previous two sets [60k].

Seated side lats: 12k x2 - 5 V. Slow + 4 partials.
12k x2 - 3 drop 8k x2 - 6

Now, i was waiting for the EZ bar so i could do some seated skulls but two guys were hogging it doing set after set on the preacher bench :mad: I was waiting for frickin' ages.

In the mean time...

DB extentions: 38k DB [83lber] - 8 these were no problem, only a little uncofrtable cause the seat setting was too low. Actually, this is prolly also a PB.


Seated skulls: 55k [121lbs] 5 + 1 not bad since i haven;t done them in months.
45k [99lbs] - 7

and that was that. Great session.

Tomorow is a carb up day. I'm also not gonna bother going into Uni cause there's no point. I'll have a sunbed instead :cool:

02-05-2002, 02:24 PM
nice lifts, chigsy. :thumbup:

02-06-2002, 11:42 AM
Glad to see things are going well for you.....it's a great feeling isn't it!

02-07-2002, 01:57 PM
certainly is.

No training today, i got back tomorrow, but just i thought i'd update and tell you guys that DOMS has really kicked in today - especially w/ my tris.


02-07-2002, 03:07 PM
Damn bro nice strength! EXCELLENT skull-crusher strength. 121 lbs.!? Keep it up bro. Nice DB press and dip strength as well.


02-07-2002, 03:26 PM

02-08-2002, 04:55 AM
Download that song. Yeah it's OK.

Now you gotta download this and see what ya think ?

hoobastank - Crawling in the Dark

02-08-2002, 06:27 AM
sweet song

02-08-2002, 08:48 AM
Well, i overslept a bit this morning by two hours so i thought i'd try a bit of an experiment. Basically, i didn;t eat carbs until after training. I had pro+fat+veg for my first meal and then trained an hour after. Bearing in mind that i hadn't eaten carbs since 12pm thursday. Anyhoo, like i say, it was just an experiment.

CG pulldown: 135k [297lbs] - 4 + 1 no real progession here then.
135k - 3

T bar rows: 67.5k [148.5lbs] - 6! well, another PB on this exercise. Have i mentioned that these are supported T bars at all?
67.5k - 4
50k - 6 I actually had to rush these three sets slightly since i was actually sharing the machine with a guy who was doing supersets. I got enough rest between the sets, but i'd have prefered slightly longer.

One arm EZ bar rows: 55k [121lbs] - 5 Well Belial, i tried them. I totally know what you mean about balance. I got them aight for balance actually, but finding a comfortable foot position where the plates at the back didn't bounce of my legs was really hard. I dunno if i'll do these again.

Machine pullover: 80k - 12 just like last week. I'll prolly just drop these for now.

Kneeling shrugs: 40k x2 - 12
45k x2 - 12
50k [110lbers] x2 - 9! Well these are PB for kneeling shrugs, although i've shrugged standing with the 60k's before. Doing these kneeling are fan-fukin-tastic. Absolutely NO cheating whatsoever. Great stuff.

Reverse machine flyes: 40k - 8

Hammers: 24k [52lbers] x2 - 3.5 ES! a whole rep more from last week.
22k x2 - 5ES SS EZ bar curls: 45k - 8

i did some forearm work and then i was done.

So not eating carbs for brekkie didn;t really make a diff. Ace.

Chris Rodgers
02-08-2002, 10:01 AM
You stole those kneeling db shrugs out of my book. That's s'ok, even if you are a non-deadlifting pansy. ;)

02-08-2002, 10:08 AM
Actually i stole them off B&I, but i asked for them first :)

And i do SLDL's!

02-08-2002, 11:04 AM
Canny Lifting. Noo gan an eat :)

02-09-2002, 04:24 AM
Well, i weighed in at 13st 6lbs which is actually 3lbs heavier than last week. I put this down to several things: water retention from wednesday's carb up, sodium retention from wednesday's carb up [too much cottage cheese :)] retention of food and addition of muscle, since the ole' strength levels have sky rocketed. I dunno if i wanna change any numbers yet, cause i haven;t established any official numbers for my carb up days yet. Still in experimental stages.

02-09-2002, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Well, i weighed in at 13st 6lbs
Use some sensible unit of measurement, like pounds, instead of those silly English 'stones.' For some reason I want to say that 1 stone = 13lbs, but f*ck if I know.

02-09-2002, 07:07 AM
haha 1st = 14lbs.

I'm 188lbs :)

02-09-2002, 07:08 AM
Oh, and i forgot to mention that i'm getting some really cool quad definition now...

02-09-2002, 09:51 AM
Cottage Cheese has a lot of sodium? I was wondering why I've been holding so much water lately- I've been eating cottage cheese like nobody's business.

02-09-2002, 10:05 AM
Ah hell yeah! Mine has 1.3g sodium per 125g serving! :eek:

02-09-2002, 01:15 PM
That's a lotta salt. So you like those kneeling shrugs... I might try 'em... You just kneel on the floor and shrug? (that would make sense)

Chris Rodgers
02-09-2002, 02:17 PM
Yeah B. Just put the dumbells down next to ya on the floor, kneel down, grab em and shrug. I guess it wouldn't work for those with gorilla arms though.

02-10-2002, 06:55 AM
I know it is B, but that's what it says on the side of the tub...

Anyhoo, i tried another little experiment yesterday. I basically had no direct carbs whatsoever throughout the day. The only carbs i got were indirect carbs from protein sources and the carbs from green veg [and i ate a lot of green veg!] I also never ate carbs before training today. So until post train i hadn;t eaten carbs since 2pm friday after back training. Jusy an experiment remember and here's how my leg session went:

[Note: from now on, lifts in itallic represent progression from the previous week and lifts in bold represent PB's mmmkay...]

Squats: 115k [253lbs] 6
115k - 5
90k - 15 this is progress on my high rep set.

Front squats: 70k [154lbs] - 10
75k [165lbs] - 6!

SLDL: 130k [286lbs] - 6
135k [297lbs] - 4
140k [308lbs] - 3!! oh yeah baby. My best ever conventional deadlift was 352lbs so i'm getting close! :D

Leg press: 110k [242lbs] - 15 just for fun really...

I normally don;t publicise calf work much anymore, but since the session was so good...

Seated calf: 72.5k [159.5lbs] - 9

Standing calf: 125k [275lbs] - 14

Fast reps: seated calf: 35k [77lbs] - 25! PB for the high/fast rep set.
standing calf: 65k [143lbs] - 20!

Then i did some abs.

As you can see, it was a pretty spuercalifragilisbegetsbealidocious workout. Oh yes...

I'm off to reminisce and do some ego masturbation...

02-10-2002, 09:31 AM
uhh...that would be....

supercalifrajilisticexpialadocius workout.

btw. i agree. very nice. :thumbup:

02-10-2002, 12:01 PM
Thanks babe.

BTW, in the UK 308lbs is actually 3 plates each side, so that was a great mental boost :)

02-11-2002, 09:41 AM
ok, decided today that this week will be the last week of 'official' cutting. I'm gonna restructure the diet slightly and increase cals but the basics are still there eg low carbs until post train. I'm thrashing out the basic design with fran right now and i'll work out foods to fit the numbers tonight if possible. I'll keep you all well updated tho.

I'll mark the end of my 32 weeks cutting campaign with a cheat day on saturday muwhahaha :thumbup:

btw, i say 'official' cause i wanna experiment with low carb bulking to see if i can actually reduce bodyfat as i add muscle mass.

I'm gonna aim for approx 15lbs of lean muscle [hopefully] and get back up to 200lbs before i decide whether i want/need to cut again.

Also, DOMS in my lower back and hams is unreal right now. I'm so chuffed i SLDLed 300lb+ :D

later dudes and dudettes.

02-11-2002, 02:55 PM
Ok, the numbers are all worked out and sorted. I'll post it tomorrow night for you all to mull over. I've sent it to fran before anyone else of course, to see what he thinks. I think it looks good tho. Off days are ~2200kcals and training days are bumped up to ~2700kcals to begin with.

I'll update tomorrow with training of chest too.

02-12-2002, 01:01 PM
I'm still shaking after that ace session! I'm so proud of myself for my chest strength gains.

DB bench: 40k x2 - 8 This was no problem. My partner said i actually got 9 but i'm not sure. I could have easily went for 10 but my partner thought i was only after 8-9. It didn;t bother me, because...
45k [99lb] x2 - 4 + 1!! I am so fukin' ecstatic i managed this. First time i tried i faulted in getting them up, but i sat up, took a deep breath and tried again. I needed a little push from my partner getting them into starting position, but after that i repped dem fukers out! So pleased...
40k x 2 - 5 + 1.

Weighted dips: +30k [66lbs] - 5 same reps and weight as last week, but i think this is from DB's taking it out of me, and also cause i added a third set of DB presses.
+30k - 3 dropped to +20k - 2 lol. I knew by this time my chest was fried.

Cable crossovers: 35k x2 - 12. onlky cause i was waiting for the rack for militaries.

Millies: 60k [132lbs] - 5 failed on 6th I actually regressed this week, but i blame my benching and extra 2 sets on that. If i'm progressing on bench then i don't mind having slower progression on delt work.
65k [143lbs] - 1 just to make 60k feel lighter haha
60k - 4
50k [110lbs] - 8 this is progress on my mod weight/higher rep set, so i'm happy.

Seated side lats: 12k x2 - 6 dropped to 8k x2 - 6

Seated skulls: 55k [121lbs] - 5 same as last week. Still not concerned cause this is most likely due to extra chest pressing/dips and extra shoulder pressing sets.
45k - 8

And that's the end of that chapter. I feel super dooper!:thumbup:

02-12-2002, 01:48 PM
Nice job repp'n them fookers

02-12-2002, 01:50 PM
Great work Rob!!!

02-12-2002, 02:15 PM
~takes a bow~

02-12-2002, 02:26 PM
*kicks chigs while he's bent over*

02-14-2002, 01:21 PM
Time to set some goals methinks:

if i work on monthly goals [about every four or so weeks] then i think it can help instead of making end of year goals that i'll most likely forget about. I think i'll also put my main five goals in my sig so i don't forget.

Sunday is 17/2/02 so by 17/3/02 i want:

Squats: 120k - 6 [up 5k]
SLDL: 145k - 6 [up 5k and 3 reps]
Front squats: 85k - 6 [up 10k]

DB bench: 45k x2 - 8 [up 4 reps]
weighted dips: +32.5k - 7 [up 2.5k and 2 reps]
Military press: 65k - 6 [up 5k and 1 rep]

C-G pulldown: 140k - 6 [up 5k and 2 reps]
T-Bar rows: 72.5k - 6 [up 5k]

that should sort me for now. I'll add these into my sig and hopefully, come 17/3 i'll be shifting more than these outlined weights and reps.

02-14-2002, 02:07 PM
I like that method... How did you pick those weights, though? They based on past progression, or are those bascially estimates of where you'd like to be?

02-14-2002, 03:43 PM

It's basically where i'd be happy if i progressed to these figures within a month.

Nothing technical about picking them - i just imagined the weight on the bar and how much happier i'd be if there were more on there haha...

And i've always kinda worked with a 4-8 rep range, so 6 is the 'ideal' if you will..

02-14-2002, 04:02 PM
Oooo look at me! I weight 188lbs. I lift houses with my pinky! Oooooooo!

Well all I can say is, your mother! And um, yeah that's all I got foo foo.

02-15-2002, 03:07 AM

02-15-2002, 03:55 AM

02-15-2002, 06:31 AM
Mwuahahahhaah. That did seem rather random huh? It was in response to your post in my journal about my weight. Now I'm gonna go cry.

02-15-2002, 06:39 AM
*lol* i got it.

02-15-2002, 07:13 AM
That's my girl. Smarter than the average bear although I have no idea how that fits in here considering she isn't a bear and this has nothing to do with shmaaats and if there were a bear it would just kick all our asses instead of answering multiple choice questions cause you know how much bears hate doing that. They can't hold the damn pencil in their fingers and their claws scratch up the answer sheet and they get pissed and and and and um I'm gonna go now. Thank you very much.

02-15-2002, 10:02 AM
Didn;t feel like friday today, so i wasn;t as 'revved' up for back day as i usually am. The session wasn;t poor by any stretch, but i also forgot my ECA so i really hit the wall just before biceps. I was disappointed cause my back sessions have been sooo fockin' ace lately too.

quick confession time: I ate rather a lot of chocolate last night and there was just no reason for it. I'm talking about a few pieces either...try a few bars! I actually think these extra carbs in fact hindered any possible progress. I know that sounds silly, but i train so much better on low carbs, that the large carb load up last night may not have helped strength.

CG pulldown: 135k [297lbs] - 4 + 1
135k - 3 these figures are exactly the same as last week.

T bar rows: 67.5k [148.5lbs] - 6 + 1 same as last week, but my bud helped me get a forced rep.
50k [110lbs] - 8 this is progression on my high rep set by two from last week.

Machine pullover: 80k - 12 same as. Stack doesn;t go any damn higher :mad:

CG low pully cable row: 70k - 6
80k [176lbs] - 5
90k [198lbs] - 2 just messin' with these. I made sure of zero blower back involvement. felt good actually.

Rear flye machine: 40k [88lbs] - 9 Progress from last week by one.

Kneeling shrugs: 55k [121lbs] x2 - 8! These are actually quite tough. I had to do them slow to ensure a full ROM.
55k x2 - 6

Seated Hammers: 24k [52.8lbs] x2 - 4ES! when/if i ever manage 8 on each side with these i dunno about going up to 26k[57.2lb] DB's. it seems pretty hefty on my shoulders, curling such weights...
24k x2 - 2ES.

and just for some higher rep curls:

EZ bar: 45k - 10.

I was really tired by this point. The gym was like a greenhouse too, cause there's windows all over and the sun was shinning through. I had an hours nap on the sofa :)

02-15-2002, 10:04 AM
i scrapped with a bear once. in a dream. it's in B&I's journal.

02-15-2002, 10:05 AM
hmmm..looking back that was actually a good workout! I think just the fact that there was no progression on my main back daddy lifts made me think that.

oh well...

02-15-2002, 10:07 AM
how about volume against volume? like last back session i wasn't that pleased with, because i didn't break any past records. but when i went back and checked lifts by volume..i actually had lifted 230 lbs more than the last time i'd done that exercise.

02-15-2002, 10:10 AM
you mean reps?

cause if you do, i already said that all figures were the same. They're all last week's PB's too which i equalled this week.

02-15-2002, 10:12 AM
oh i see. too tired to read through it all today. well you can't progress every week. altho i do think there maybe some weight to your carb idea, but don't use that as a scapegoat or a superstition.

02-15-2002, 10:23 AM
Mmmmm.chocolate. All these bastards in my life sent me chocolate for Valentine's day and now it is just so damn tempting.l

Chicken, have you ever tried lying on an incline bench on your stomach and lifting weight up to parallel to the ground at a 45degree angle from your head? I just thought I'd ask because I've found it to be amazing for trap growth.

On the pullovers. Since you now can add no more weight- have you ever tried doing them on a decline bench with a rope attached to a cable. Eh?Eh? I hear good things my boy.

02-15-2002, 10:53 AM
That's a good idea, but the cable machine with the 100kg stack is on the other side of the gym from the decline bench, and taking it all the way over would be too tiring at that point in the workout. If only i felt comfortable with DB pullovers i'd do them. Mybe i;ll try the blighters again next week. you ever tried them? I know T is a fan.

02-15-2002, 11:09 AM
Yeah I've tried DB's but I find I can't use a heavy enough weight before my shoulders hurt. Plus I only have tried DB's on a flat bench so the ROM sucked because once you bring it all the way up the load on the lats is gone and your still only half way through a full lat movement. Plus, it is tough to keep your elbows locked.

02-15-2002, 11:10 AM
I def. need to do something about my lats though. What do you find works them the best- the machine pullovers?

02-15-2002, 11:45 AM
nah, i've only been doing the pullovers for a couple of weeks in a bid to see if they help the sticking point on the close reverse grip pulldown.

I think as long as you have 2 sets of a good vertical row [chin, pull down, pull up etc..] and 2 sets of a ood horizontal row [t bars for me right now, but there's load of variations] then you're good to go.

how can you alter the ROM for DB pullovers?

02-15-2002, 01:15 PM
Well think of it this way. The ROM for machine pullovers is about the most you can get without ripping your shoulders out of their sockets and spankin youself on the ass. But, DB pullovers are only half that ROM because you bring it up over you chest and then the tension is no longer on the lats, its on the chest and kinda on the tris and arm joints.

02-15-2002, 01:18 PM
I was thinkin of something in class today about this whole thing of when and what with carbs. Lately I have been doing no carbs except before and after lifting. I was achieving fat loss while putting on some muscle. I really liked the results. But, I was eating oatmeal after lifting so that there wasn't too much of an insulin rush. But, maybe I should be eating dextrose/maltodestrin since the body burns more fat after working out and using carbs for energy. And it basically burns fat no matter how many carbs you eat. So if I ate high GI instead of low GI, it would be a quick spike and then right back to more fat burning. Instead of a slow insulin release for awhile and then eventually back to more fat burning. Thoughts?

And yes I realize the spike won't come till 45 min. after eating anyways.

02-15-2002, 01:47 PM
you could always try it. The thing i hate about the insulin spike is the damn after effects - drowseiness and lethargy. I feel like sh!t on the comedown. You've also got to take into consideration that spiked insulin provides perfect fat storing conditions. But by all means, try it and tell me how it goes.

have you ever tried eating no carbs pre-training? That's a technique i currently employ and it's reaping some groovy dividends. Maybe that's an avenue you'd like to explore?

I'm starting a gaining phase on sunday, and i'll post up my new diet plan tomorrow for all to read. It carries on some of the techniques i've incorporated for my cutting but this time i'll be eating more cals. same techniques = low carbs at all times until post train when i eat 200g carbs over 3 meals, and protein mixing to get great amino acid profiles for my meals. It's really quite interesting.

oh and btw, i fully understand what you mean about the DB pullover ROM, but if that's the case, surely the ROM for lats for the pullover = until arms are level, so there's no need to take the 'bell any higher right?

02-15-2002, 03:36 PM
I discovered that I have more strength when I eat protein/fat preworkout a year ago when I first tried NHE. I felt like whenever I ate carbs preworkout I would crash halfway through my workout.

NOw, in the past month I have been trying carbs preworkout because of the thoughts of you and I think Mason having to do with causing the insulin postworkout by eating carbs preworkout since the insulin affect doesn't happen for 45 min. after eating carbs anyway.

You said insulin causes fat storage. Obviously this is true, except when glycogen stores are low or pre and postworkout. Preworkout it shuttles nutrients and therefore provides energy. Posworkout no fat is stored because fat burning increases and glycogen stores are being refilled.

So now my problem is trying to figure out what is best for lbm because I train for size not strength(not that you could tell considering my stats.)

Your idea on eating all those carbs postworkout is a good one i think. I know what you meaning about crashing after that initial carb meal postworkout. SOon I am gonna start experimenting with refeeds after lifting and then dieting from when I wake up the next day until my next workout. I am doing a Mon. Weds. Frid. split so we will see if this could accomplish fat burning and muscle building at the same time.

02-15-2002, 03:44 PM
"Posworkout no fat is stored because fat burning increases and glycogen stores are being refilled."

where did you get this from?

As soon as insulin is released hGH and glucagon are inhibited and fat burning is halted. I don't understand how you are burning fat at this point. Please explain man :)

02-15-2002, 08:10 PM
Alright let me look around on MFW. I remember Lyle explaining it once.

02-16-2002, 04:10 AM
btw, i was on about continuing fat burning despite ingesting pro and carbs [post workout meal]

02-16-2002, 04:15 AM
alrighty then, yesterday was my last official day of cutting and tomorrow i start my gaining campaign.

I weighed in this morning at 13st 12.5lbs [194.5lbs]. The reason for such i jump is cause yesterday was a carb up day and i'm still holding from it [food and water]. Normally this would make it hard for a correct analysis of next week's weigh in from my first week on my new diet, but i'll be carbing up after back training next friday anyway, so i'll prolly get a more accurate reading.

Let me go get my new diet for you all to see...

02-16-2002, 04:20 AM
ok, this is cut and pasted from word:

Carbohydrate rotation policy:

Basically, carbs will stay low on non-training days and on training days up till post training where carbs will be consumed in large quantity.

To begin with, low carb days = ~80g carbs
Training high carb days = ~240g carbs

Training is currently on Sundays, Tuesdays and Fridays, but eventually I will implement training every other day, so muscle groups get hit every 6 days. This will mean that there is a continuous carb rotation. Until then, the rotation is as follows:

Sunday: 40g in first meal, 100g post train, 50g in the following meal, 50g in the meal following that.
Monday: ~80g
Tuesday: Same as Sunday.
Wednesday: ~80g
Thursday: ~80g
Friday: Same as Sunday.
Saturday: ~80g

Basically, on low carb days, the calories lost from carbs will be replaced by calories from fat.

I originally aim for 2200-2500 at first.


Non-train days = 80g carbs
320g pro
100g fat

Train days = 240g carbs
320g pro
29g fat

Obviously, these are merely guidelines and will differ once food has been allocated.

The diet:

Non-training day

Meal one:
Tin tuna 38g pro, 0.6g fat
60g oats 40g carbs, 7g pro, 4.3g fat

Totals: 45g pro, 40g carbs, 4.9g fat

Meal two:
Same as meal one.

Totals: 45g pro, 40g carbs, 4.9g fat

Meal three:
Tuna 38g pro, 0.6g fat
2 tsp walnut/flax oil 9g fat
green veggies

Totals: 38g pro, 9.6g fat

Meal four:
60g chicken 13.8g pro, 0.7g fat
1 egg 6.7g pro, 5.5g fat
120g cottage cheese 14.5g pro, 4.3g carbs, 2.1g fat
green veggies

Totals: 35g pro, 4.3g carbs, 8.3g fat

Meal five:
Same as meal four

Totals: 35g pro, 4.3g carbs, 8.3g fat

Meal six:
Same as meal four.

Totals: 35g pro, 4.3g carbs, 8.3g fat

Meal seven:
4 whole eggs 26.8g pro, 22g fat
3 egg whites 10.5g pro
green veggies

Totals: 37.3g pro, 22g fat

Meal eight:
60g chicken 13.8g pro, 0.7g fat
41g peanuts 20g fat, 10.4g pro, 6.6g carbs
Green veggies

Totals: 24.2g pro, 6.6g carbs, 20.7g fat

Daily Totals: 249.5g protein (998kcals)(45%)
109.3g carbs (437.2kcals)(20%)
87g fat (783kcals)(35%)

Training days

Meal one:
Tin of tuna 38g pro, 0.6g fat
60g oats - 40g carbs, 7g pro, 4.3g fat

Totals: 45g pro, 40g carbs, 4.9g fat

Meal two: (pre-train)
60g chicken 13.8g pro, 0.7g fat
1 egg 6.7g pro, 5.5g fat
120g cottage cheese 14.5g pro, 4.3g carbs, 2.1g fat
Green veggies

Totals: 35g pro, 4.3g carbs, 8.3g fat

Meal three: (post train)
147g oats 100g carbs, 17.3g pro, 10.5g fat
4 scoops whey 42g pro, 8g carbs, 4g fat

Totals: 108g carbs, 59.3g pro, 14.5g fat

Meal four:
Tuna 38g pro, 0.6g fat
83g spagettii 50g carbs, 11.9g pro, 2g fat

Totals: 49.9g pro, 50g carbs, 2.6g fat

Meal five:
60g chicken 13.8g pro, 0.7g fat
74g oats: 50g carbs, 8.7g pro, 5.3g fat
100g cottage cheese: 11.9g pro, 3.6g carb, 1.8g fat

Totals: 34.4g pro, 53.6g carbs, 7.8g fat

Meal six:
Tuna 38g pro, 0.6g fat
1 tsp flax/walnut oil 4.5g fat
green veggies

Totals: 38g pro, 5.1g fat

Meal seven:
2 whole eggs 13.4g pro, 11g fat
2 egg whites 7g pro
Green veggies

Totals: 20.4g pro, 11g fat

Meal eight:
60g chicken 13.8g pro, 0.7g fat
20g peanuts 10g fat, 5.2g pro, 3.3g carbs

Totals: 19g pro, 10.7g fat, 3.3g carbs

Daily totals = 294g pro (1176kcals)(42%)
259.2g carbs (1036kcals)(37%)
64.9g fat (584.1kcals)(21%)

Cals are bumped up by about 500kcals on training days to make up for the calories burned lifting.

Current weight: ~185lbs ~11% ish [well, weighed in at 194 today :eek:]
Goal weight: ~200lbs ~12-13% ish

feel free to ask any questions or ive any criticisms.

02-16-2002, 09:29 AM
Do you not get sick of eating chicken breasts and tuna at every meal? I used to do that, but if I try to eat a plain 8oz chicken breast now I start gagging after 4 oz(I'm not kidding.) Maybe you're just more hardcore than me--although I've redeveloped a taste for plain tuna again(Switched from cans of albacore to vacuum packets of skipjack)

Oh, and why you using oatmeal postworkout? Dextrose or maltodextrin(e) would be much better there.

And why are your calories so low(Especially on non-training days.) This almost looks more like a diet than a bulking routine. I'd be very surprised if you gained much size. But then again, we're all different in this regard. I'm sure you know what works for you.

And you might want to think about splitting up your post-workout whey and taking some pre-workout. Just a suggestion.

(BTW, this is what you get for insulting me Mr. Necrophiliac. I assume you've learned your lesson. HA.)

02-16-2002, 11:00 AM
I no longer really care for what i eat, as long as it get the job done.

"Dextrose or maltodextrin(e) would be much better there"


btw, i start off at low cals and add weight slowly [like 1lb a week]. That way i can gradually up cals as and when is needed so fat accumulation is kept to a bare minimum. In fact, my plan with this diet is an experiment to see if i can maybe add mass and perhaps reduce bf% a little.

I wanna gain about 15 lean lbs with this so i'll prolly do this diet for about 12 weeks or so, depending on how successful it is. After this i'll take out some cals and go for 'real' bf reduction for a few weeks over the summer once i'm back at work and off school.

02-16-2002, 11:04 AM
You can gain even at your current weight on such low cals? I mean, I understand keeping them somewhat low for flexibility, but...

02-16-2002, 11:06 AM
well we'll see :)

after the first week if changes need to be made i can quite easily make them.

02-16-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

"Dextrose or maltodextrin(e) would be much better there"


'Cause what you should be shootin' for is a big insulin spike, and oatmeal is pretty low-glycemic.

In fact, my plan with this diet is an experiment to see if i can maybe add mass and perhaps reduce bf% a little.

I generally think this is a bad idea and will end up being counterproductive. Just accept that you are going to gain a little chub, try to minimize it, and diet if off once you're done. If you do succeed, however, you will impress the sh*t out of me. I'll be watching.

02-16-2002, 02:09 PM
i really shoudn't bring this debate into my journal, but why should i be shootin' for an insulin spike?

btw, i was gaining a little with this method while cutting, hence why i've brought it through for gaining phase.

02-17-2002, 10:06 AM
yesterdays cheat day was good fun, but i've been crapping all day and took my bloat to the gym with me for legs haha. It felt a bit sick all session but it proved fruitful anyway.

Squats: 120k [264] - 4 nice progression from last week.
120k - 5 i dunno how this happend on my second set but it did. This actually means i have 4 full weeks to add one rep to this figure as far as my goals go :D

95k [209] - 18! this is a PB for my 12-20 rep range for back squats.

front squats: 75k [165] - 8
80k [176] - 5! ace.

SLDL: 135k [297] - 2 Grip!

Take two

135k - 2 Grip!!

take three

It was right about now that i finally gave up and adopted the under/over grip to see if it helped. Last week i pulled more than this with an overhand grip, so this really has confused me why i can't do this weight...

135k [297] - 5 up one from last week. ace.

140k [308] - 4! this one was up one again. I can only speculate if i would have done better had my grip not fecked up for the first two sets :mad:

i added in a quick set of one leg curls here too:

one leg curls: 35k [77] - 5 on each leg.

seated calf: 75k [165] - 7 ace. more improvement. I'm actually getting really close to PB territory here. I recall doing 80k i think on this at one time.
standing calf: 125k [275] - 15

fast calf work -

seated calf: 37.5k [82.5] - 19!
stand calf: 70k [154] - 18!

i did some abs too, including some standing abs with 100k on the cable machine. they felt aight, but i think next week i'll go back to kneeling crunches.

I was pretty knackered after this now. Also, i dropped carbs down a bit, since yesterday's cheat day i didn;t see the point in eating as many carbs cause it's not like i had been low carbing the day before and i doubt one leg session is gonna deplete me enough to warrant all those carbs. After the session i went home, had a large meal (spagettii, tuna and cottage cheese incidentally) and then fell asleep on the sofa. Ace.

02-17-2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

SLDL: 135k [297] - 2 Grip!

Take two

135k - 2 Grip!!

take three

It was right about now that i finally gave up and adopted the under/over grip to see if it helped. Last week i pulled more than this with an overhand grip, so this really has confused me why i can't do this weight...

I'm sure you've already seen my journal and what happened to me. I'm pretty anti-mixed grip now. Just my $.02 I'd just use straps if grip is a concern or better yet do some extra grip work and wait for your forearm strength to catch up(Ive gone the strap route.) But you may well not have the problems I did.

02-17-2002, 03:02 PM
what problems did you have from mixed grip?

i actually alternate each time and i've written down in my log which way each hand was for each set.

and i actually do use straps. I'm still not overly clear as to why i encountered problems this week...

02-17-2002, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
what problems did you have from mixed grip?

F*cked up my lower back--though it's nothing major. This was due to the tendency to 'corkscrew' towards the pronated hand when lifting with a mixed grip. Didn't realize I was doing this until this past Wednesday.

i actually alternate each time and i've written down in my log which way each hand was for each set.

I did the same thing. But again, maybe you won't run into problems.

02-19-2002, 01:01 PM
I bought myself some steak to try tonight cause i've never actually eaten it before. fter this session i think i deserve it...

very impressive:

DB press: 40k [88lb] x2 - 9 up one rep. ace.
45k [99lbs] x2 - 4 + 2 stayed the same this week unfortunatly. Added an extra forced rep to make up for it haha...

Weighted dips: +30k [66lbs] - 6 Well i got my intended rep range so...
+32.5k [71.5lbs] - 4! hell yeah!

Decline machine press: 215k [473lbs] - 5 +1! and then 2 really slow negatives.
190k [418lbs] - 4 i was actually going for high reps on this one but by now all over was totally beat. This is prolly the reason for my poor military performance.

Militaries: 60k [132lbs] - 4 well, i've succeeded in regressing by one rep each week since i hit my PB. well isn;t that just a kick in the ass...I don;t mind tho, cause my bench and dips are progressing.
50k [110lbs] - failed on 8th.

I don;t usually do two pressing movements, but i jus fancied trying these again after several months away from them:

DB shoulder press: 28k [61.6lbs] x2 - 5
28k x2 - 4 and to think i once put the 40k DB's above my head for 3...

seated side lats: 12k x2 - 6
12k x2 - 3 + 3 partials.

Seated skulls: 55k [121lbs] - 6 + 1 up one rep from last week.
35k [77lbs] - 18 erm....

I'm totally dead now.

I didn;t drink enough water today at school either.

I stayed up late last night oo, to watch Canada escape with a lucky draw in the ice hockey last night.

well, that's it. I think i'll go for a sun bed tomorrow.


02-19-2002, 01:35 PM
steak = yummy

nice session man

02-19-2002, 01:36 PM
Thanks man.

I'm well looking forward to my steakywakey.

02-19-2002, 02:08 PM
Impressive bro. :thumbup:

02-19-2002, 02:15 PM
Dips almost there, man. :D

02-19-2002, 02:16 PM
Yup :D they're coming!

02-20-2002, 08:23 AM
Well, i could definately get used to eating steak more often. In fact, i think i will.

I'll prolly add a nice one on training days. ace.

02-20-2002, 08:26 AM
Damn bro EXTREMELY impressive decline machine press poundages!! Excellent dip poundages too bro.


02-20-2002, 08:29 AM
thanks man :)

02-20-2002, 08:56 AM
Let me get this straight...you hadn't eaten steak until recently?

02-20-2002, 09:19 AM
Gay isn't he !

02-20-2002, 09:24 AM
Until last night actually, Gino.

02-20-2002, 09:24 AM
CD had the crazy idea that eating any red meat during cutting was a bad thing, i guess he didn't know what lean beef was, damn kids :cool:

02-20-2002, 09:25 AM
haha not quite rob.

I've just never been interested in eating beef - I like in the UK - can you blame me?

02-20-2002, 09:34 AM
That's unreal. Then again, you probably can't believe that I don't drink tea and I brush my teeth several times a day. lol j/k

All work and no steak makes gino a dull boy

02-20-2002, 09:37 AM

02-20-2002, 09:45 AM
wait...so you've NEVER eaten steak up until now?


02-20-2002, 09:48 AM
not until last night babs.

it's taken just shy of 19 years...

02-20-2002, 09:49 AM
you're a closet hindu, aren't you? don't lie...just admit it.

02-20-2002, 09:51 AM
hehe thats quite possible. i believe steak is more expensive in europe than inn the usa and its more of a delicasy (spell check) food than a bulk food.

u yanks seem to eat steak like every damn day *salivates*

02-20-2002, 09:52 AM
well that's cuz steers and queers come from texas.

02-20-2002, 09:53 AM
he's right - the steak i ate last night cost me a mint!

02-20-2002, 10:39 AM
Maybe if more of you euro-wussies ate steak the price would go down. I eat steak at least every other day. I don't even know what I pay for it, but it isn't much. The most expensive kind I see at the grocery store is porterhouse steak - it's $10 + per pound and the weight includes the bone and fat trim. By the time you trim up the steak, half of the weight is gone, so it's real pricey. I got some last week because they were buy one, get 2 free.

02-20-2002, 04:22 PM
i went shopping today.

shopping for bulking foods is so much fun lol

here's my groceries list (i hope you Yanks realise i wrote 'groceries' for your benefit)

7 bags of chicken breast (4-5 decent sized breasts per bag)
3 tubs of 650g cottage cheese
25 tins of tuna (i love the look on the checkout person's face)
3 boxes of large eggs - 15 eggs per box (usually 6 but i have three left from last week)
1 bag of spagettii
1 bag of oats
green veggies
2 bags of 200g cashews

oh yes...

02-20-2002, 10:43 PM

02-21-2002, 06:38 AM
Looks like you're cutting. GET SOME RED MEAT AND PEANUT BUTTER! Hamburg, roast beef, etc... Of course I don't want you mad cowing on us, but there has to be safe meat now with all that publicity the meat contamination got.

02-21-2002, 06:43 AM
Well i've only been bulking since sunday so i don't need that many cals right now G.

I also can't get a hold of any natty PB. I've tried loads of local health stores and supermarkets, but if i want any i'll have to buy it online.

02-21-2002, 07:27 AM
Just get regular pb. There's not that much difference bro. I have natty pb and regular and the stats aren't different enough to make me go out and buy natty pb again.

02-21-2002, 07:31 AM
more salt :rolleyes:

hey, did you get that PM, bitch?

02-21-2002, 07:37 AM
No, you dirty trashbag whore. I'll check it, but I have a 9:30 meeting to go to right now. Sorry...priorities...

I got a turtle head popping out too, so looks like I'll be late for the meeting.:fart: :nod:

02-21-2002, 07:39 AM
bears arm ?