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View Full Version : cutting, metabolism, and appetite



Eric Cartman
03-05-2008, 05:12 PM
Everyone recommends that when you cut, you keep the same exact routine as your bulking routine, but just eat a calorie deficit. I'm starting to think the first part of that statement is false!

For those of you whom have bulked, you know that after doing 12 sets of heavy lifting, your body starts demanding nutrients, protein, etc... your metabolism goes up really high and you start wanting to eat a lot of calories... I'm luckily one of those people that can eat 5,000 calories on a bulk and barely feel it... that is because my body NEEDS the nutrition...

Why would you do the same type of routine on a cut? the weight training cant be at the same level of a bulk, or your calorie needs will go through the roof.. Your body will feel the exact same level of appetite, you'll want to eat excess calories, but now you are forcing yourself not to eat more, but to eat less... it feels unnatural..

I am starting to believe that when you cut, you do dramatically less weight training, maybe even only 6 sets... you add other activities like sprinting, yoga, or walking, or swimming.. weight training just becomes a way to preserve muscle and boost metabolism, but you have to alter your routine to fit the circumstances...

Who can agree with me on this? What do you think?

EC

Notorious
03-05-2008, 06:50 PM
It's pretty well known that you keep volume low on a cut. Probably 1-5 reps and at most 3 sets for whatever exercises you are doing.

Eric Cartman
03-05-2008, 08:46 PM
Wow, then there is a lot of misinformation going around this forum, because many people have told me to keep volume the exact same...

I kind of had to figure out on my own that they were wrong..

EC

_8_Ball
03-05-2008, 11:32 PM
I don't agree with the 1-5 reps... unless you are powerlifting or trying to break a sticking point by maxing out.

I would suggest just keeping it simple. 10-15 reps per set. If your trying to cut, perhaps lowering the time between sets to elevate the heart rate even more will help.

When I cut, I still do 10-12 sets, a little higher reps in order to keep the HR up. Seems to work for me.

8

Eric Cartman
03-06-2008, 01:16 PM
Well thats what Im saying, 10-12 sets will make me too hungry to eat a calorie deficit...

EC

JohnnyBrown
03-06-2008, 11:18 PM
That's all part of being on a cut.

Try eating something that is extremely.. uhh.. un-dense in calories to fill you up. Some veggies, or maybe even diet pop?

ShockBoxer
03-07-2008, 07:10 AM
If you're feeling like tackling the first cow you see, clubbing it to death with a fence post, and eating it on the spot, snarling at any wolves that come to share in the spoils... you're doing it right.

kevowamo
03-07-2008, 07:14 AM
i like that shock..great summary of the feeling

Eric Cartman
03-08-2008, 10:01 AM
So you believe in intensive exercising to increase metabolism, and then resisting hunger urges that occur?

I dunno, that sounds unhealthy.. when the body is starving for food, you don't deny it food,... diets have already been proven not to work.. you must eat to fuel your metabolism...

Also, if a cut is so unpleasant and painful, you will never be able to motivate yourself to stick with it...

There must be a healthy and better way to cut...

EC

CastedBaran
03-08-2008, 12:48 PM
From what i have read over the past months is the best way to be on a cut is to starve yourself slightly. If you starve or deprive your body of food to a big degree then you'll only kill your metabolism. Eat at 600 calories below maintenance and you'll be losing above a pound a week. Do that and lift hard with not too much volume(less vol. then on a bulk) and your body will do the rest.

This is what I've gotten out of reading off of these forums so critique my response if I'm terribly wrong on some note.

Mike

BFGUITAR
03-08-2008, 01:27 PM
So you believe in intensive exercising to increase metabolism, and then resisting hunger urges that occur?

I dunno, that sounds unhealthy.. when the body is starving for food, you don't deny it food,... diets have already been proven not to work.. you must eat to fuel your metabolism...

Also, if a cut is so unpleasant and painful, you will never be able to motivate yourself to stick with it...

There must be a healthy and better way to cut...

EC

Essentially yes. But your making it seem like your not eating ANYTHING when you do this. You eat, but eat well. High protein and moderate calories. Hunger is a sign that your hungry but not always a sign that you need food. Out bodies are weird like that, even when we have more than enough energy we can still be hungry. Hunger is a double edged sword really.

Losing weight isn't easy, you will have to sacrifice eating more food than you like. It will be unpleasant no doubt, but how unpleasant depends on how you cut. Some people can lose weight with no problems because they don't feel hungry, while others do.

If you do feel hungry trick your body by drinking a lot of water and eating low calorie high volume foods.

BBB
03-08-2008, 02:08 PM
All the people I respect say the same thing. REDUCE THE VOLUME OF YOUR LIFTING ON A CUT.

CrazyK
03-08-2008, 02:44 PM
Just don't gas yourself out like you would when trying to gain mass.

Eric Cartman
03-08-2008, 05:53 PM
I apologize if this information has already been posted somewhere else, but can you list some good food choices that are "low calorie high volume" ?

Thanks!

EC

Built
03-08-2008, 06:32 PM
I don't agree with the 1-5 reps... unless you are powerlifting or trying to break a sticking point by maxing out.

I would suggest just keeping it simple. 10-15 reps per set. If your trying to cut, perhaps lowering the time between sets to elevate the heart rate even more will help.

When I cut, I still do 10-12 sets, a little higher reps in order to keep the HR up. Seems to work for me.

8

What a terrible idea for cutting. High reps? What is this - 1980?

No thanks. I'll stick to low volume - 5 rep sets for most work, maybe 8 reps for some, minimal but intense cardio, careful diet.

WAAAYYY easier.

el_Mariachi
03-08-2008, 11:51 PM
No thanks. I'll stick to low volume - 5 rep sets for most work, maybe 8 reps for some, minimal but intense cardio, careful diet.

How many sets?

Built
03-09-2008, 12:25 AM
For me? Under 20 certainly. Usually more like about 16, not counting warmups.

BFGUITAR
03-09-2008, 08:49 AM
I apologize if this information has already been posted somewhere else, but can you list some good food choices that are "low calorie high volume" ?

Thanks!

EC

Vegetables!!

Cucumbers (my fav), bell peppers, carrots (to some degree), cauliflower...

Lockout
03-09-2008, 05:34 PM
Vegetables!!

Cucumbers (my fav), bell peppers, carrots (to some degree), cauliflower...

Actually, vegetables make me hungry as hell.
Personally, the only thing that suppresses my appetite is more training (less intensity of course) to make my body focus on somethin else.

But people are different, whatever works for you...

radioheadhead
03-10-2008, 12:49 PM
stuff I eat on a cut:

green apples
(diet) green tea
I like crunchy granola bars (Nature Valley only 170 cal/ package, but fill me up decently)
yogurt
lots of water
fruits & veggies
lots of chicken of course!

Warrior10
03-11-2008, 10:30 PM
Been away for a bit.

I've been having the same concerns as the OP and that same "un-natural" feeling when I work out low-volume and high weights on my cut ... but I'm keeping the protein and fat high, and the post-workout meal with carbs. I think the unpleasant feeling during the day comes from a lack of better ideas for fat sources. So far I have flaxseed oil, peanut butter and almonds. Any other suggestions anyone? And abt how much fat does a single capsule of flaxseed oil contain? (I take 3 with each meal prior to workout). Thanks.

deeder
03-11-2008, 10:38 PM
What a terrible idea for cutting. High reps? What is this - 1980?

No thanks. I'll stick to low volume - 5 rep sets for most work, maybe 8 reps for some, minimal but intense cardio, careful diet.

WAAAYYY easier.

Haha, I was wondering when you were going to pop in here as I was reading this thread! I'm :withstupi:


Essentially yes. But your making it seem like your not eating ANYTHING when you do this. You eat, but eat well. High protein and moderate calories. Hunger is a sign that your hungry but not always a sign that you need food. Out bodies are weird like that, even when we have more than enough energy we can still be hungry. Hunger is a double edged sword really.

Losing weight isn't easy, you will have to sacrifice eating more food than you like. It will be unpleasant no doubt, but how unpleasant depends on how you cut. Some people can lose weight with no problems because they don't feel hungry, while others do.

If you do feel hungry trick your body by drinking a lot of water and eating low calorie high volume foods.

I could be completely out to lunch here... I thought hunger was a result of the bodies blood sugar levels (or whatever.. I'm no dietitian) dropping.

I agree with cutting not being easy. If it were really easy and pleasant then everyone would have a 6-pack.

I disagree about the drinking lots of water trick. I always seem to be hungrier if I drink lots of water... I dunno what that's about because I've heard from lots of people that drinking water is supposed to help...

Built
03-11-2008, 10:47 PM
Warrior, the flaxseed caps are a gram each; switch those out for fish oil next purchase.
Other healthy fats include butter, avocados, egg yolks, olive oil, raw nuts, coconut milk/oil, whipping cream...

I seem to recall reading that keeping ghrelin low helps suppress appetite, and that of all the macronutrients, protein suppresses ghrelin the best.

Water can make the stomach seem more full but it can backfire and make some people hungrier.

Warrior, try having some of your carbs about an hour before you train, see if it helps you have more satisfying workouts. That's how I do it.

Warrior10
03-12-2008, 07:26 PM
Thanks for the response Built - much appreciated.

I agree that a bit of carb in the pre-training meal enhances the workout - I've started to do this a while ago after burning out from only protein and fat.

Regarding the fish oil then - how much fat per capsule? I ask b/c they're usually recommended at 1 or 2 at most per day.
As for those other healthy fat sources you mentioned - thanks a lot - I just gotta figure out how to incorporate them into a protein-packed meal and make them taste good with it.

Built
03-12-2008, 08:48 PM
A gram per capsule. I take 10g daily.

Warrior10
03-13-2008, 06:04 PM
A gram per capsule. I take 10g daily.

You split 'em up among meals?

Notorious
03-13-2008, 06:11 PM
You split 'em up among meals?

I don't think it really matters. I take 10 before going to sleep.

Built
03-14-2008, 01:11 PM
I trickle 'em in with meals, but I don't think it matters.