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View Full Version : *weekly* bulk/cut routine - Is it logical?



LevesqueIsKing
03-11-2008, 06:25 PM
Title.

To go into detail, lately I've been beginning to question why people go on such drastically long bulks and cuts. Weight shifts every single day [4-5 lbs for me], so it can't be that they have to be long to accomplish something. So, is a weekly bulk/cut routine logical? Lift and gourge Mon-Wed, continue to eat Thurs-Fri without lifting [allowing muscles enough time to heal] and then do a short quick cut Sat-Sun...? The obvious intention would be to gain muscle mass without putting on as much fat. I know that *technically* muscle takes more than 5 days to fully heal, but is that going to significantly hurt gains? I doubt it.

Comments?

BFGUITAR
03-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Those 4-5 lbs is of water... It can easily be removed or added. Fat and muscle are a lot different.

It is less efficient to do what your proposing. UD2.0 does it but to the extreme under specific conditions. And generally, the net weight is negative even at that point.

And hurt gains, maybe not... but stall them? Possibly.

Eric Cartman
03-11-2008, 08:40 PM
I asked this exact question several months ago..

People told me that it is basically inefficient to do this, because these bulk and cut cycles take time to do right... they mentioned something about anabolic reaction in your body taking weeks to develop and build the momentum necessary to build muscle..

I personally don't understand the logic, and I also would like a better explanation of this. I would prefer to do much shorter cycles... who wants to gain so much fat, or starve themselves for weeks?

I would much prefer to avoid long cycles, if possible..

Holto
03-11-2008, 08:53 PM
I would prefer to do much shorter cycles.

What kind of duration are you looking at?

Bupp
03-11-2008, 09:08 PM
I would think 3-4 week bulk/cut periods would work well enough. If you are a bodybuilder it is different of course because you only care about your bodyfat on the day of competition. But for average Joe lifter 3-4 weeks of focussing on putting on size followed by 3-4 weeks of leaning out seems reasonable.

It would also give you the opportunity to set some good short term goals which could help you stay motivated/focused.

ShockBoxer
03-11-2008, 10:07 PM
I do this.

It doesn't work at all.

But it FEELS like it does.

dougyp
03-11-2008, 11:05 PM
I think the body just likes to do it this way. I spent 5 years of my life stuck at 155 lbs (pathetic, I know) doing what your suggesting and it wasn't until I decided to commit to a real bulk/cut cycle. My gains were incredible and I couldn't even stop at 4 weeks, I've been bulking for 12 weeks and I've put on nearly 30 lbs, clean. It could by a psychological factor, too, that continues to motivate when you keep seeing that 1lb slider go up on the scale at the gym consistently from week to week that makes this method so tried and true, but IMO, this is the way the bodies most efficient way of getting big. Also, there is the hormonal factor. Lifting hard as hell and eating like a ravenous animal jacks up testosterone and GH. It might not be enough to do this only 5 days out of the week. It would be an interesting experiment. There is no doubt you would put on quality muscle, and it would be lean, too, but would it even compare to a serious bulk? I suspect probably not.

Eric Cartman
03-12-2008, 11:04 AM
I've been thinking that perhaps 6 week bulk followed by a 4 week cut would be a possibility...

any other suggestions?

Holto
03-12-2008, 11:14 AM
I've been thinking that perhaps 6 week bulk followed by a 4 week cut would be a possibility...

any other suggestions?

There is no physiological reason to think this wouldn't work.

I'm doing a long cut right now and when I'm done I'm going to try some sort of micro-cycle program and tie it to poundage goals.

I'm going to bulk until I hit specific goals and then cut.

If anything the short cycles favor the way your body works. Long cuts down regulate thyroid hormone production, bulks always yield the best results in the first few weeks.

ajaxguy
03-12-2008, 12:39 PM
this may sound dumb but i have never done a cutting or bulking cycle but want to start. I have been lifting for 5 years, made great gains , am very lean, im 5'11", 190lbs, 6 pack, nice definition but feel small. i want to add that Big factor, what kinda bulking/cutting cycle would you guys suggest given my specs.

Keith
03-12-2008, 01:05 PM
this may sound dumb but i have never done a cutting or bulking cycle but want to start. I have been lifting for 5 years, made great gains , am very lean, im 5'11", 190lbs, 6 pack, nice definition but feel small. i want to add that Big factor, what kinda bulking/cutting cycle would you guys suggest given my specs.

Start a new thread on this instead of hijacking this one lol.

Or better yet, do a search on this type of stuff, it can be found everywhere. If you're already lean, I would do a long, slow bulk. Shoot for a lb/week. Increase your calories accordingly.

Slim Schaedle
03-12-2008, 03:35 PM
Title.

Weight shifts every single day [4-5 lbs for me], so it can't be that they have to be long to accomplish something. So, is a weekly bulk/cut routine logical? Lift and gourge Mon-Wed, continue to eat Thurs-Fri without lifting [allowing muscles enough time to heal] and then do a short quick cut Sat-Sun...? The obvious intention would be to gain muscle mass without putting on as much fat. I know that *technically* muscle takes more than 5 days to fully heal, but is that going to significantly hurt gains? I doubt it.

Comments?

UD2 (cut and gain versions) are basically what you are describing.


I am alternating both, starting 8 weeks ago and just moved into cut version last week.


Mon-Thurs is half maiantenance with high rep depletion work.
Thursday is a heavy tension workout at about 6 reps, followed by massisve carb up.

Over Thurs-Sat I eat, on average, 2000 cals above what I need to maintain and follow up on Saturday with a powerlifting style workout or anywhere from 1-5 reps, hitting new records each week.

Actually, I go up in weight every week even on the 15-20 rep depletion days.

My weight fluctuates 10-12 pounds from Sunday night to Thursday night.


But, the caffeine and ephedrine has me rambling. Look up the book UD2.0 for a detailed description.

Unless you are anal and dedicated, what you described will not work correctly.

Slim Schaedle
03-12-2008, 03:37 PM
It would be an interesting experiment. There is no doubt you would put on quality muscle, and it would be lean, too, but would it even compare to a serious bulk? I suspect probably not.

These are good points.

It will be very hard to gain a substantial amount of mass doing what I outlined.

It is more for preserving lean mass, with some gain, as well as strength gain.

Eric Cartman
03-13-2008, 10:07 AM
So how long is the ideal cut and bulk cycle?

ShockBoxer
03-13-2008, 12:10 PM
If there were an 'ideal' bulk/cut, everyone would use it. Everyone. The fact that highly educated people are constantly mucking about with these things is evidence against the existence of one.

azma
03-13-2008, 12:39 PM
...maybe it's evidence against their intelligence.

Slim Schaedle
03-13-2008, 12:49 PM
So how long is the ideal cut and bulk cycle?

However long you can go without losing too much muscle, sanity, sex drive, while still accomplishing goals in a progressive manner.

JSully
03-17-2008, 12:22 PM
Wow, so many people not too fond of the UD2. It works fantastic in my opinion. I went from 255lbs @ 20% bf =204lbs of LBM to 235lbs @ 12% bf = 206.8lbs LBM in a matter of 6 weeks. I also gained 20lbs on my bench and about 30lbs on my squat/deadlift. You just have to follow it exactly and don't "diet" on the weekend, that's how you regain the lost muscle and build more.

It recomments for superior fat loss to decrease cals to 10% under maintenance for Saturday/Sunday's eating... now that does work. But I'd rather gain a little .05lbs of muscle instead of losing another .25 lbs of fat so I kept cals about 10-15% higher than maintenance on the weekends. The key is how supercompensated can you get on that Thursday evening/Friday?

At one point, I was eating 230g protein monday-wednesday with 50g carbs and 60g fat. I did the UD2 workout monday tuesday and thursday evening (just prior to the carb load). I did cardio monday tuesday wednesday and sunday for approx 45mins a session on medium intensity. monday and tuesday were my carb depletion workouts, agonizing. thursday was my tension workout, not too bad. then saturday was the power workout.

I got great gains off of it and added about 2.8lbs in the 6 weeks I did it for. Obviously nobody is the same but I like it alot. I just hated how I looked thursday morning all depleted, ugh. I'm on a cyclical diet now and it seems to be working thus far. I wanted more of a muscle gain so instead of doing an enormous supercompensation carb load after 4 days of no carbs, I do it over 2 days and then give myself 2 days to eat just over maintenance, then back down to low cals.

Like I said, it's just my opinion but I think it works great. Fat loss goes down and muscle (slowly) goes up.

Just FYI, I'm an easygainer. I gain muscle really easy but it's extremely difficult for me to drop fat and when I do drop fat, the mucle likes to say f-it and go along for the rid. I don't know if that would be any difference but it might. It's pretty much one of the only diets I've found that I can not lose muscle while losing fat on.

Good Luck.

MichaelKeck
03-17-2008, 12:38 PM
most of you know this, but for those that don't, not everyone responds the same way to certain diets. you have to find what works for you, not someone else.

mini bulk cycles arent very effective IMHO. Anyone ever hear of muscle set point theory?? say if you gain 20lbs over a 3 month bulk, only 18-12lbs or so of that is gonna be pure lean tissue, the rest water, glycogen and fat. your body needs time to get used to carrying this extra muscle and "accept" it as normal. immediately going into a cut will likely end you up right back where you began.

the reason most people gain a ton of weight very quickly after a long cut is that the body is depleted and in a sense primed for nutrient uptake. most of the initial weight gain is going to be replenished gylcogen stores and water.

its typically only feasible to gain .25 to .5 lb of lean tissue per week

Slim Schaedle
03-17-2008, 12:50 PM
mini bulk cycles arent very effective IMHO. Anyone ever hear of muscle set point theory??

If you progressively do mini cycles, to the tune of 2 steps forward, 1 step back, and our body continues to acclimate to new tissue, lost fat, stress, etc, then you are progressively raising your set point.

Stuff like UD2 is also meant to be a form of recomposition, and not just a quick fix.

Pair up 6 weeks of UD2 cut and UD2 gain, rinse, repeat, and you could pretty much do it long term.


I do see your points above, if someone were to do a few mini cycles and call it a day, expecting long lasting spectacular results.

Eric Cartman
03-24-2008, 11:21 PM
Ok, so I currently am 6 ft 1 weighing about 196 lbs after a bulk.. about 26 percent BF.. waist is 37 inches.

Would it be wrong to go on a long cut to lose 30 lbs? Would that cycle be way too long, would it be better to throw some bulk cycles in there along the way? I want to get down to 32 inches on my waist eventually, but I'm concerned that too long a cut could result in the rebound effect you mentioned, where I lose muscle and then just gain all the weight back anyhow from extended nutrient depletion..

Need advice!

EC

littleman19
03-24-2008, 11:32 PM
if you don't want to put on a lot of fat, just do a slow bulk with an additional 300-600 calories above your maintanence and gain like a .5 to 1 pound a week. I think one think people don't understand is that your body has a limit on the amount of muscle it can produce in a certain time frame. Just because you eat a butt load doesn't mean more of what you eat is going to turn into muscle. It just opens the door to a greater chance of it being stored as fat.

Just my .02

Slim Schaedle
03-24-2008, 11:35 PM
Ok, so I currently am 6 ft 1 weighing about 196 lbs after a bulk.. about 26 percent BF.. waist is 37 inches.

Would it be wrong to go on a long cut to lose 30 lbs? Would that cycle be way too long, would it be better to throw some bulk cycles in there along the way? I want to get down to 32 inches on my waist eventually, but I'm concerned that too long a cut could result in the rebound effect you mentioned, where I lose muscle and then just gain all the weight back anyhow from extended nutrient depletion..

Need advice!

EC

Buy UD2

Read and it will really open up your mind.

Do 6 week blocks of cut/gain version and you shouldn't have a problem with the rebound effect.

You could contunue that for recomposition for an extended period of time, possibly losing alot of fat, but not actually losing alot of weight.

Eric Cartman
03-25-2008, 10:20 AM
It says on the website that UD 2 is designed for male athletes with 12-15% bodyfat. I am at 26% bodyfat, not sure if he intends this advice for me...

EC

Eric Cartman
03-25-2008, 10:34 AM
if you don't want to put on a lot of fat, just do a slow bulk with an additional 300-600 calories above your maintanence and gain like a .5 to 1 pound a week. I think one think people don't understand is that your body has a limit on the amount of muscle it can produce in a certain time frame. Just because you eat a butt load doesn't mean more of what you eat is going to turn into muscle. It just opens the door to a greater chance of it being stored as fat.

Just my .02

Are you suggesting I do a slow bulk at 26% body fat currently?

Slim Schaedle
03-25-2008, 10:35 AM
It says on the website that UD 2 is designed for male athletes with 12-15% bodyfat. I am at 26% bodyfat, not sure if he intends this advice for me...

EC

Ah crap, my bad.

Yeah in that case, hit up a gradual cut.

I wouldn't do bulk cycles in that case, but I would incorporate some high calorie days.

As long as you set a concrete plan with spefific goals and implement them, then you can move on to what I was talking about with cut/gain cycles.

Morox
04-15-2008, 04:21 PM
I'm actually going to start trying this as well. I thought of it recently. I really hate stuffing my face months on end. I quit my long bulk just weeks ago at 173 lbs (I am 5'8") and I started to eat a lot less. Before I knew it, the scale read 164 lbs. Losing weight is amazingly easy for me, but bulking isn't at all. I want to try short intervals.