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View Full Version : Raw Squat Vs. Equipped Squat



Addison K.
04-01-2008, 06:52 PM
What are your guys' max raw squat versus full-equipped (squat suit, briefs, knee wraps)?

As you can see in my signature, I'm training my raw squat max hard and I was wondering how much you guys' think I can put up fully equipped (once I reach my raw goal).

For example, when I raw squat 600, what should I be able to expect to put up fully equipped?

Addison K.

chris mason
04-01-2008, 07:02 PM
That is kind of a tricky question. You have to learn how to use the equipment, but assuming you had a raw squat of 600 lbs and had some practice under your belt with equipment, I would think you would be good for 750 lbs + depending on type of gear and so on.

Travis Bell
04-01-2008, 07:03 PM
hey man, welcome to the board!

equipment varies for almost everyone. Some will get more out of the gear than others especially in the bench shirts.

For squat suits though, when guys get on briefs and a good squat suit, they can work up to 200 over their squat. Like I say though, some will be more, others less.

Its difficult to compare directly the raw numbers to equipped numbers. When I'm training my raw bench, I don't know what my shirted bench is and vice versa is true. You can't really train both. I know what you mean though, you're just trying to get an idea.

Equipped lifting is different technique and training than raw lifting though (for the most part) so it is difficult to compare the two

Lones Green
04-01-2008, 07:03 PM
none of us can let you know exactly what your gonna hit man. you just gotta see what happens.

ediy: chris and travis both beat me to it!

Ben Moore
04-01-2008, 08:56 PM
See above, but to give you an idea. I've squatted 600 in just belt/wraps, 725 in Viking Briefs, and 875 in full gear. It's hard to determine the transition though because there are so many factors that go into it.

Travis Bell
04-01-2008, 09:22 PM
on a side note, I'd really encourage you to try gear out. Its alot of fun man.

haha Ben can testify to that

Ben Moore
04-01-2008, 09:26 PM
yep, it's a good time.

Chris Rodgers
04-01-2008, 09:27 PM
hey man, welcome to the board!

equipment varies for almost everyone. Some will get more out of the gear than others especially in the bench shirts.

For squat suits though, when guys get on briefs and a good squat suit, they can work up to 200 over their squat. Like I say though, some will be more, others less.

Its difficult to compare directly the raw numbers to equipped numbers. When I'm training my raw bench, I don't know what my shirted bench is and vice versa is true. You can't really train both. I know what you mean though, you're just trying to get an idea.

Equipped lifting is different technique and training than raw lifting though (for the most part) so it is difficult to compare the two

I concur. I don't even consider raw squatting and gear squatting the same movement. I don't know what the hell to push with without gear on and my form is all over the place. When I get in gear my form is very tight and it actually looks like I know what I'm doing.

Addison K.
04-01-2008, 09:33 PM
Thanks for the responses.

I see the consensus is full gear adds 150-300 lbs.

I do understand raw and equipped squatting are quite different.

Also, I'm walking my raw squats out of the rack, so I assume using a Monolift will also affect my equipped squat #s.

I just wanted to have a ballpark estimate in my mind.

Once I hit a raw 600# squat and deadlift in a meet, I'll put on a single-ply suit and knee wraps and see what I can do.

Addison K.

Chubrock
04-01-2008, 10:33 PM
You're also going to have to learn to use the monolift, so keep that in mind.

LouPac
04-02-2008, 12:29 AM
You're also going to have to learn to use the monolift, so keep that in mind.

Isn't it easier than a rack?

Lones Green
04-02-2008, 03:59 AM
Isn't it easier than a rack?

in the sense that you don't have to walk out the weight, but there is a whole different technique when using a monolift.

Addison K.
04-02-2008, 01:43 PM
You're also going to have to learn to use the monolift, so keep that in mind.

I feel you, brother.

When I competed in the APF years ago, I walked-out after the hooks pulled back from the Monolift.

I think I'm to do USPF meets this year, so I'll have to walk out for those.

The main reason I don't use a Monolift is because I don't have enough training partners to have back and side spotters, and a guy to operate the Monolift.

In His Name,

Addison K.

Ryan Celli
04-02-2008, 03:15 PM
I just competed RAW (raw unity meet)and then 3 weeks later competed with single ply USPF, this should be a good example.

Here where my numbers, keep in mind I never actually squatted in my squat suit prior to the USPF meet. I squatted in it for the first time at the competition. The bench shirt I used about 3 times, and deadlifted with the DL suit once. So, with some more training in gear I may have done better. My total was 204 lbs different.

Raw meet
squat. 601
bench. 518
deadlift. 640 (opener)
total 1758

USPF
squat 705
bench 584
deadlift 672
total 1962

Travis Bell
04-02-2008, 03:18 PM
geeze, those are great numbers Ryan! I forget, but what weight class did you lift in?

Addison K.
04-02-2008, 04:06 PM
I just competed RAW (raw unity meet)and then 3 weeks later competed with single ply USPF, this should be a good example.

Here where my numbers, keep in mind I never actually squatted in my squat suit prior to the USPF meet. I squatted in it for the first time at the competition. The bench shirt I used about 3 times, and deadlifted with the DL suit once. So, with some more training in gear I may have done better. My total was 204 lbs different.

Raw meet
squat. 601
bench. 518
deadlift. 640 (opener)
total 1758

USPF
squat 705
bench 584
deadlift 672
total 1962


geeze, those are great numbers Ryan! I forget, but what weight class did you lift in?

Ditto.

Great job, brother.

In His Name,

Addison K.

Ryan Celli
04-02-2008, 07:36 PM
i was in the 198's. I weighed in light at both, 193, and 192.
you can see all my lifts on youtube under bigiron20.

Travis Bell
04-02-2008, 08:41 PM
Wow, that bench is just ridiculous! haha awesome, just awesome. When's your next meet?

Guido
04-03-2008, 09:15 AM
Those are very impressive numbers, Ryan, especially at 198. Your raw lifts especially put mine to shame.

thewicked
04-03-2008, 03:28 PM
That is kind of a tricky question. You have to learn how to use the equipment, but assuming you had a raw squat of 600 lbs and had some practice under your belt with equipment, I would think you would be good for 750 lbs + depending on type of gear and so on.



yep... this is right on. Training raw vs training with gear are two completely different things. You have to learn how to use the gear and break it in..it's not as easy and putting on a suit. It becomes a science for most. I know a guy that benches 615 raw and put on a a single ply f6 and is just a few more practices away from putting up 805. For some it's magic and for others not so much.

RhodeHouse
04-05-2008, 02:37 PM
I disagree with you guys on the Raw v. Gear training, to some extent. I think the raw squat really translates over to geared squatting. The technique is the same, or at least it should be.

The big difference in my mind is the supra-maximal load the body has to handle on top of the technique work that has to be done with gear.

The other issue with raw training is that your hips and groin get a little more banged up. Rehab/prehab needs to be a priority. Not that it doesn't matter with gear, but it really needs to be taken into account. The joints take a whole butload of stress.

In my opinion, the training should be identical, just modified for the gear.

Take a look at this.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/raw_squatting.htm

nhlfan
04-05-2008, 03:31 PM
Raw meet
squat. 601
bench. 518
deadlift. 640 (opener)
total 1758


damn! those are some serious numbers for the 198s.

Ben Moore
04-05-2008, 05:57 PM
I disagree with you guys on the Raw v. Gear training, to some extent. I think the raw squat really translates over to geared squatting. The technique is the same, or at least it should be.

The big difference in my mind is the supra-maximal load the body has to handle on top of the technique work that has to be done with gear.

The other issue with raw training is that your hips and groin get a little more banged up. Rehab/prehab needs to be a priority. Not that it doesn't matter with gear, but it really needs to be taken into account. The joints take a whole butload of stress.

In my opinion, the training should be identical, just modified for the gear.

Take a look at this.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/raw_squatting.htmI looked through that article yesterday. Good stuff Matt. I see where you are coming from. I'm still very new to the gear so it seems very strange right now.

RhodeHouse
04-06-2008, 08:51 AM
I looked through that article yesterday. Good stuff Matt. I see where you are coming from. I'm still very new to the gear so it seems very strange right now.

Thanks for reading it. I appreciate it.

This is what I do when I'm training in the gear. I always work up to 505x1 with just a belt. Then I put on the briefs. I'll use my numbers from my last full training cycle to give you an idea of what I did each week.

600x5
650x5
705x5
825x1 w/ suit on straps down
Deload/DE Work
750x3
805x2
905x1 Full gear

It went something like that. I like to train raw even if I'm heading into a meet. I really think it has awesome carryover.

Killa Kurt
04-06-2008, 09:04 AM
Rhodes do you think a cycle like that would work if a person is squatting multiple times a week?

RhodeHouse
04-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Rhodes do you think a cycle like that would work if a person is squatting multiple times a week?

No - it's too much work. I used a Squat/DL Assistance day when I was doing this. I would do:

Power Squat
Back Raises
Abs

You could throw in extensions and curls if you wanted to, but very light. If you really wanted to, I guess you could do squats on the assistance day. i would keep it light and fast. 3-4x10 and that's it. I worry about the shoulders and elbows getting beat up from holding the bar on your back 2x per week. With the PL side, I have to keep my bench moving, as well.

Hope that makes sense.

Killa Kurt
04-06-2008, 02:51 PM
No - it's too much work. I used a Squat/DL Assistance day when I was doing this. I would do:

Power Squat
Back Raises
Abs

You could throw in extensions and curls if you wanted to, but very light. If you really wanted to, I guess you could do squats on the assistance day. i would keep it light and fast. 3-4x10 and that's it. I worry about the shoulders and elbows getting beat up from holding the bar on your back 2x per week. With the PL side, I have to keep my bench moving, as well.

Hope that makes sense.

Yeah I had a feeling you were going to say it's too much work. Thanks alot.

Addison K.
04-06-2008, 02:53 PM
No - it's too much work. I used a Squat/DL Assistance day when I was doing this. I would do:

Power Squat
Back Raises
Abs

You could throw in extensions and curls if you wanted to, but very light. If you really wanted to, I guess you could do squats on the assistance day. i would keep it light and fast. 3-4x10 and that's it. I worry about the shoulders and elbows getting beat up from holding the bar on your back 2x per week. With the PL side, I have to keep my bench moving, as well.

Hope that makes sense.

What are Power Squats?

IHN,

Addison K.

Lones Green
04-06-2008, 03:12 PM
What are Power Squats?

IHN,

Addison K.

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=167&pid=825

i've pretty much seen a generic version of this at every commercial gym i've been to.

Addison K.
04-06-2008, 05:11 PM
http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=167&pid=825

i've pretty much seen a generic version of this at every commercial gym i've been to.

My gym has a similar piece--I just didn't know its name.

IHN,

Addison K.