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Reinier
03-19-2002, 06:51 AM
from what i understand you spray this on your pan and things dont stick so you dont need oil or butter correct?
where do you buy this stuff?

Podium Kreatin
03-19-2002, 06:59 AM
hmm... i think u can buy a non-stick pan, cuz i have one. u still need some oil, or the food'll burn.

ericg
03-19-2002, 07:07 AM
I use PAM. Here in the states you have to buy it on the street. Usually there is some toothless old lady that sells the stuff, you have plenty of those in your neck of the woods, from what I hear ;)

Honestly, in the states, we can buy it anywheres. Or just use some olive oil, or walnut oil, if you need the fats.

Qea
03-19-2002, 09:06 AM
Non-stick spray is oil

The only reason why it is labelled as 'fat-free' is because one serving is a 1/4th of a second spritz.

For your info :D

hemants
03-19-2002, 09:16 AM
Yeah, just get some olive oil spray and cook everything on medium heat.

ericg
03-19-2002, 09:46 AM
yup so if you need the fat use oil (olive oil or walnut oil) if you dont use the spray (oil)

Jane
03-20-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by ericg
yup so if you need the fat use oil (olive oil or walnut oil) if you dont use the spray (oil)

but you still get the fat with the spray, just a little bit less DEPENDING on how long you spray for

My nonstick pans suck so I am starting to need more and more spraying time, I think I will soon just use a teaspoon of olive oil or something instead so my food stops getting f*cked up.

ericg
03-22-2002, 07:11 AM
ya i see what you are saying. for me i dont spray the pan for 10 seconds, maybe two seconds. so that would be about 1-2g of fat? compared to 5g in a tsp of olive oil.

I know they make these containers that allow you to place your own oil (olive or walnut or whatever floats you boat) into it, then you "pump it up" and spray it on your pan.

hemants
03-22-2002, 12:04 PM
No no no. Use an olive oil based spray and only as much as you need to cook without sticking.

All oil will de-nature somewhat with cooking (that's why medium heat is better than high).

If you want more fat, you're better off pouring it on your food afterwards (salads, pasta, grilled veggies, whatever).

:)

Jane
03-23-2002, 09:57 AM
So when the cooking oil is de-natured, what exactly does that do? The calories are still there, is it a lower quality fat then?

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-23-2002, 10:08 AM
Degrates to trans-fatty acids. In certain circumstances they can form hydrogenated fats (need a catalyst like copper or zinc [if i recall properly]).

in a word, these = anti-ace.

Olive oil is best for cooking cause it has a high flash point ie it degrades at high temps (which is more beneficial than say) Polyunsaturated fats have low flash points so are dreadful for cooking. These should be dressing oils only.

Jane
03-23-2002, 12:55 PM
when you say high flash point, do you mean that olive oil will pretty much not degenerate if cooked on medium heat?

PowerManDL
03-23-2002, 01:58 PM
That would be the idea.

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-23-2002, 02:05 PM
yes janey, hence why olive oil is a recommened cooking oil.

Podium Kreatin
03-23-2002, 11:59 PM
? how the heck can oil denature? proteins denature. oils also have a VERY hi heat capacity, it's BP is about 2x+ than water, so it's bonds can be broken at extremeley hi temps
also, why worry about the degradation of oils? i've never heard much on this, if oils do degrade at cooking temperatures

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-24-2002, 07:43 AM
haha only Jane said de-natures you prat. We said "Degenerates".

It's not a proper term used to describe it, but it's fitting. The bonds don't break, just the open double bonds get hydrogenated (they're called partially hydrogenated if they're trans-fatty acids).

Read my fat article if you wanna know the gist. I'm too lazy to explain everything.

the doc
03-24-2002, 09:47 AM
ok, so they dont hydrogenate from high heat

the flash point is simply the temperature a substance must reach for sustained combustion to occur. Thus a substance with a low flash point is more succepatable to combustion (oxidation). In general, oils high in polyunsaturated fats such as flax, canola (rapeseed), and hemp have relatively low flash points and will smoke at low temperatures. This is undesired for cooking purposes. OIls rich in monounsaturated fats such as peanut and olive have higher flash points and will smoke at much higher temperatures. Lastly, oils high in saturated fats such as beef and pork lard will have the highest flashpoints, smoke at the highest temeperatures

Now the smoke is indicating to you that chemical reactions (oxidation) are occuring in the oil. Chemical bonds between carbon-carbon and carbon-hydrogen are being broken and fused with oxygen. This results in more volitile products forming. Some are what composes the smoke you see and others remain in the oil. Generally speaking these oxidation products are not beneficial and i'm guessing they are dealt with by the liver.

Cackerot69
03-24-2002, 07:54 PM
Just fookin spray the butter spray crap as needed.

Podium Kreatin
03-24-2002, 10:11 PM
well, free radicals are very rare to form in combustion reactions, but they do form. are u sure, at cooking temperatures, that it makes such a big difference in their production? from my experience, smoke comes up only when teh food makes contact w/ the pan, and doesn't come from teh oil (i use corn)

also, remember, oil has a VERY HI specific heat, therefore, takes longer to heat up:
hypothetical eg. if a room temp oil makes contact w/ a 200degree pan, the 200 degree pan may drop to room temperature by diffusion, wheras, the oil only increases by 15 degrees. what this means is that what causes food to burn smoke, may not even be considered warm for the oil. it may mean that cooking heat has little affect on free radical production, and to my reason, it makes sense

btw, what is the flash point of certain oils?

the doc
03-25-2002, 01:01 AM
smoke = combustion

steam = from food

yes i am sure

the doc
03-25-2002, 01:02 AM
in addition they are combustion radical which arise from a different process than a typical heat or photon induced initiation

Podium Kreatin
03-25-2002, 02:28 PM
combustion rxn:
A(moleculeX) + B(O2)--> C(H2O) + D(CO2)

smoke does NOT = combusion. free radicals come from an error in combusion, which is very small at normal combusion reactions. cooking isn't even hot enough for combusion.
this is the point im asking. are u sure its that the oils reach flash pts? cooking at 200C flame doesn't mean the pan is 200C, etc.

Podium Kreatin
03-25-2002, 05:31 PM
o yea forgot to add. oil doesn't combust when u cook at normal temp, which means it yields zero free radicals. if the cooking oil combusts, it releases a LOT of energy, which can be shown by appearance of fire, not smoke

Jane
03-25-2002, 05:58 PM
Well I have switched from cooking spray to a tsp of olive oil instead and I must say that
1. it is easier to measure how much fat I am getting
2. my food tastes better
3. my food never sticks
4. my macros are a little more balanced
5. I am making use of good quality, extra virgin olive oil instead of whoknowswhat in the bottles

So regardless of what is going on chemically, these practical reasons are enough to keep me away from Pam :)

the doc
03-26-2002, 07:20 AM
podium are you getting smoke confused with steam

If you heat a frying pan on high with no food in it and pour some oil in it will smoke- very soon you will have a grease fire

Add food in with the oil and the oil temperature will be much cooler- WHy? because the STEAM being boiled off from the food excerts a cooling effect.