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thewicked
04-17-2008, 07:12 PM
when i first started on my modified westside template the conjugate method made my bench REGRESS down to 370...working with 90% and higher doubles brought my bench back up to the mid 400's but i've since stalled. I'm debating on going back to it again but having a hard time deciding what exercise to do for it since I'm not going to be using a shirt...


i was thinking...

reverse band bench
2board
incline
bench with alot of bands and little free weights..
bench with little bands and alot of free weights...
bench (period)


would you rotate those in a 6 week cycle or should there be more exercises that i should be doing? I appreciate the help guys. I feel i dind't give the conjugate method a legit chance and i'm wanting to max with other exercises here recently so i'm thinking it's time to give it another try.

kingkong51
04-17-2008, 07:16 PM
Floor Press, Close Grip Inclines 2 and 1 Boards bands and chains dont worry about reverse band

thewicked
04-17-2008, 07:18 PM
thanks man! I was really hoping you'd chime in on this one.. ...

so the whole goal of the conjugate method is to atleast hit the same weight you used the time before?

Travis Bell
04-17-2008, 07:46 PM
well you want to PR, however small it is every week.

if your bench went down, I might suggest you're going to heavy on DE days. How much weight are you using on DE bench?

I don't like incline press, but other than that the suggestions Kong said are really good.

I do use reverse band every cycle for deload week. I deload every 4 weeks religiously, especially when I'm training raw. The congujate method took my bench from 455 to 520 and my bench was still climbing when I went back to my shirt.

Where in the press are you stalling?

thewicked
04-17-2008, 07:49 PM
i was right at 405 when i started powerlifting..started the conjugate method suggested by the template and went down to a HARD 420. I was using 50% of my 1rm with monster mini's on DE day but my speed sucks. I'm always cautious trying to stay in the groove of the bench.

I LOVE inclines.. and i think they'll help a ton so I'l add them in.. but again.. i'm still skeptical.

I was thinking the same thing.. use the reverse band for the deload every couple weeks.

go with

incline
floor press
press with bands
reverse band
2 board
start over..

retest after 10 weeks on week 11? and to answer your question travis.. i come off my chest strong.. stall about 10-11 inches off it.. and blow up my lockouts. I've since not had problems stalling save at the end of my workouts with 94-96% of my 1rm during doubles.

kingkong51
04-17-2008, 07:55 PM
I got to deload next week.

Travis Bell
04-17-2008, 07:57 PM
2brd is a good choice then. I'm the same way

Actually when I was solely training raw, I tested my straight weight max every training cycle - so about every 4th week, then 5th week deload. For most people I wouldn't recommend that though, it can get difficult to keep hitting PRs because people hit a small PR and its easy, so they get greedy and keep going til they miss a lift. Leave a little in the tank every week and try not to miss a lift. Know when to leave on a good note

When you are getting ready to go for a straight weight max, I start my cycle with high band tension and get closer to straight weight each week so its not a huge change when I go straight weight.

how much are you using on DE day though? for your speed work?

kingkong51
04-17-2008, 07:57 PM
I use Inclines as a accessory after bench on my ME days focuse on my heavy chest press and triceps with a lat shoulder and heavy tri movements like 3 boards or skulls JM press i am going to try Kaz Press. DE days and rotate bands for 2 weeks and then straight weight like a BB day and also focus on heavy shoulders and rows

thewicked
04-17-2008, 08:00 PM
i'm using 210 at the bottom and 280 at the top with bands on my DE day...

thewicked
04-17-2008, 08:03 PM
I use Inclines as a accessory after bench on my ME days focuse on my heavy chest press and triceps with a lat shoulder and heavy tri movements like 3 boards or skulls JM press i am going to try Kaz Press. DE days and rotate bands for 2 weeks and then straight weight like a BB day and also focus on heavy shoulders and rows

heavy shoulders and rows i've got covered... HAHA i can row with the best of you heavyweights!

TRAVIS- your rotation idea makes more sense. I would use the blue bands plus weight on one week... more weight with the minis..the next week..then straight weight on the retest. Makes sense. GEt used to not having the stabilization and more at the bottom free weight wise. That's what was killing my team on squats... we'd use bands all the time when we squatted and guys were using more bands than free weights nad coudln't figure out why they coudln't get out of the hole. Bands were to blame!

RhodeHouse
04-17-2008, 08:55 PM
Way too heavy on DE day. Start at 135 for DE work. Add 20lbs each week until you're back around 40-50%. Speed is king. If any set slows, drop 20lbs and stay fast. Speed is king.

Check out this article. http://www.elitefts.com/documents/600lb_raw_bench.htm

Maybe it'll give you some new ideas

thewicked
04-17-2008, 09:01 PM
LOVE that article..

my problem is i have a hard time staying in the groove and get to going all over the place when I get to going faster. I've got a bum shoulder from a bad BPA accident awhile back so when it gets squirrelly i don't want a reenactment..but i think going back down to lighter weights and working faster is a good idea! Thanks for that man! Maybe I should work with 40% instead of 50?

and your'e right..speed is everything and i preach the hell out of it.. force=massxacceleration!

Travis Bell
04-17-2008, 09:07 PM
I agree, too heavy.

I use mostly between 185 and 205lbs of bar weight. Now every now and then I'll slowly add up weight til I get to around 240-250, but very infrequently. This is probably why your bench went down the first time. The idea is to focus on the speed, not the weight. What bands are you using for your speed work? mini bands I assume?

I'd recommend mini bands, and then as Rhodes said, use 135 and work up to probably around 185 for your speed work.

So often speed work is underestimated when in all actuality its the key to success. It sounds though like you are on the right track though!

As for your squatting, read up on Lou's articles on Circa Max stuff and it'll probably help out.

thewicked
04-17-2008, 09:09 PM
I agree, too heavy.

I use mostly between 185 and 205lbs of bar weight. Now every now and then I'll slowly add up weight til I get to around 240-250, but very infrequently. This is probably why your bench went down the first time. The idea is to focus on the speed, not the weight. What bands are you using for your speed work? mini bands I assume?

I'd recommend mini bands, and then as Rhodes said, use 135 and work up to probably around 185 for your speed work.

So often speed work is underestimated when in all actuality its the key to success. It sounds though like you are on the right track though!

As for your squatting, read up on Lou's articles on Circa Max stuff and it'll probably help out.

hey thanks alot guys..i cna't wait to see where i'm at at hte end of the year.. i'll figure out what exercises work best for me..lighten my DE work and yes TB i'm using minis.. and bust that ass until I hit my goal of 500 or better!

RhodeHouse
04-17-2008, 10:04 PM
LOVE that article..

my problem is i have a hard time staying in the groove and get to going all over the place when I get to going faster. I've got a bum shoulder from a bad BPA accident awhile back so when it gets squirrelly i don't want a reenactment..but i think going back down to lighter weights and working faster is a good idea! Thanks for that man! Maybe I should work with 40% instead of 50?

and your'e right..speed is everything and i preach the hell out of it.. force=massxacceleration!

One thing I got from Jim Wendler on speed work is to break the triple into 3 singles. Treat each set of 3 as 3 singles. It's not exactly what Lou preaches, but it definately helps you stay in the groove and not get too crazy and all over the place.

nhlfan
04-18-2008, 12:38 AM
One thing I got from Jim Wendler on speed work is to break the triple into 3 singles. Treat each set of 3 as 3 singles. It's not exactly what Lou preaches, but it definately helps you stay in the groove and not get too crazy and all over the place.

This is what I do as well. I prefer it. The second and third reps tend to get a little sloppy for me if I try to hammer them out quick.

On the other hand, I've read a Westside article that Louie wrote saying that all 3 reps should be performed within 3 seconds, as 3 seconds is about the same amount of time a typical max bench attempt should take.

Give the 3 singles method a try and see if it works for you.

bill
04-18-2008, 07:23 AM
good helpful discussion guys

Travis Bell
04-18-2008, 08:44 AM
I try for the 3 reps in 3 seconds, although I don't always get it

this is what my speed workouts look like

YLU4k6VudEo

thewicked
04-18-2008, 07:59 PM
DAMN that's fast!

Big_Byrd52
04-23-2008, 11:16 AM
Travis, so u do heavy rep 3bds after ur speed work? what else do u do on that day? how do u work shoulders in the scheme of things, or do u?

Travis Bell
04-23-2008, 12:18 PM
I used to when I was training solely raw, but I dropped that once I got back in the shirt. It just doesn't give my CNS enough time to recover when I'm benching twice a week. I've even dropped my DE bar weight down a little as well. Since I've dropped the heavy stuff on DE day I've been a PR madman in the gym. Today I benched 835 raw off the foam blocks like butter haha.

What Ive been doing for tricep work on DE day is picking two exercises. One is typically some form of pressdown, (rope or straight bar) and the other is some extension work (rollbacks, skullcrushers, JM presses etc). I do high reps with them, say 15 on the pressdowns and 12 on the extension work. I go back and fourth non stop til I've done 4 sets of each. The reason Lou has me doing this is to get my endurance up. I haven't been able to grind stuff out in the shirt lately so he thought I needed to up my pace a little. Its definatly working.

For shoulders, I do light military once a week and then lots of rear delt work. those H-Rolls are awesome. I really like them. Since I'm a bench only lifter and squat once a week instead of twice, I do shoulders and back on Monday, light bi's on Tuesday, ME bench on Wednsday, Squat on Thursday, back and shoulders again on Friday and then DE bench on Sunday (or saturday, just depends)

I cycle my back and shoulder work so one of the days will be pretty heavy, and the other will be light. Typically Monday and Tuesday my tri's are pretty sore so I do lots of rehab stuff for them. Take a look at my log and you'll see exactly what I do.

For you the biggest thing will be getting your tricep strength up to par with what you're benching in the shirt. If you do want to do high boards (3,4 or 5brd) do it on your ME day, not DE day. DE day should be all about the speed. Watch videos of Paul Key, he used to train at Westside and still uses pretty much the same template. I'd highly recommend using bands (like 300+lbs of tension) in the shirt and going full range.

More and more I'm becomming a fan of training full range in the shirt. Boards are priceless for overloads and breaking in the shirt, but for those of us who aren't advanced enough to be comfortable every time off the chest, we need to go full range more often.

Big_Byrd52
04-23-2008, 01:55 PM
i dont do any speed work, but i have started in the shirt every other week now. i bench heavy raw 5 reps on non shirt day, then shirt day i work up to heavy, but not mox single, adding weight each shirt day before doing shirt work.

i do shoulder presses and high rep close grips, and db inclines on mondays (bench on fridays) basically comes out to heavy chest, light shoulders then heavy shoulders light chest days.

never done bands. was thinking about adding them for some close grips. was curious about goin off boards on my raw bench fri after my heavy set of 5. just do same weight for reps.

im still learning the shirt, trying to get a new one dialed in and to touch something. then i was planning on hitting something off chest every time, maybe just planned opener at least. Paul will actually be benchin with us on fri nights soon once he moves to nashville. he is on some other night now (im at ngbb)

Big_Byrd52
04-23-2008, 01:56 PM
oh, i asked for my raw strength... im just doin the gear thing cause i gotta keep up with shawns bench! haha im not bombin again for not gettin in the damn thing this time! haha

Travis Bell
04-23-2008, 02:50 PM
haha yeah I knew what you meant. Boards do work for raw strength. I used to get stuck at about a 4brd range with 515 raw so what I did was do 3brd for reps on my DE day.

Paul will definatly convert you to speed work. I would rather miss a ME day than a DE day. Speed is the key to everything in the bench.

The more you get in the shirt, you may need to dial back the military press and make your second chest day a little lighter and focus more on tri's. Really, if you're tucking your elbows right, your triceps are whats locking out the weight not your chest/pecs.

You've definatly got enough raw strength to do very very well in the shirt, you just need to change how you apply the raw strength. After not getting in my shirt for probably 4months, its taken me awhile to translate that new raw strength over to my geared benching. I think you're on the right track getting in it every other week, I usually get in mine for two weeks in a row and then go back to raw. Actually my raw strength has really jumped since going back to the shirt which I found somewhat odd.

What sorta stuff do you do for tricep strength?

if you can, throw up some video of you benching in the shirt, I'd love to see it. Really though, Pauls advice will be more valuable because he'll be there in person. He and I train very much alike.

You thinkin bout going 198 or 220 at the ProAm? Last I'd heard Shawn was going 220 but that was second hand

thewicked
04-23-2008, 04:14 PM
oh i'm loving this thread!

got a video of a half ass 405 incline today for my ME upper body exercise!

and big sam i'm with travis on this one...speed is everything in the bench.

vdizenzo
04-23-2008, 06:44 PM
oh i'm loving this thread!



got a video of a half ass 405 incline today for my ME upper body exercise!

and big sam i'm with travis on this one...speed is everything in the bench.

Nice incline. I added inclines into my rotation for my raw training cycle last year. I think it did wonders for my raw, but does nothing for my equipped lifting. Post up your vid. Here's my 545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk

Travis Bell
04-23-2008, 07:01 PM
Good grief Vin!!!

Is there any upper body lift that you aren't amazing at?!

vdizenzo
04-23-2008, 07:19 PM
Good grief Vin!!!

Is there any upper body lift that you aren't amazing at?!


Thank you Travis. That means a lot coming from you. I am squatting and deadlifting again. I hope to hit a full meet in the fall. We'll see what I got going on with the lower body now.

Here's an 800lb trap bar dl I did at a strongman http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7b23bbbaf3c3ced66906

Travis Bell
04-23-2008, 08:34 PM
I hope to hit a full meet in the fall. We'll see what I got going on with the lower body now.


That would be awesome! I know it can be a pain, but it'd be really cool if you were able to post a log here. I know I'd love to watch you go to full meets and see how you work

Big_Byrd52
04-23-2008, 08:44 PM
haha yeah I knew what you meant. Boards do work for raw strength. I used to get stuck at about a 4brd range with 515 raw so what I did was do 3brd for reps on my DE day.

Paul will definatly convert you to speed work. I would rather miss a ME day than a DE day. Speed is the key to everything in the bench.

The more you get in the shirt, you may need to dial back the military press and make your second chest day a little lighter and focus more on tri's. Really, if you're tucking your elbows right, your triceps are whats locking out the weight not your chest/pecs.

You've definatly got enough raw strength to do very very well in the shirt, you just need to change how you apply the raw strength. After not getting in my shirt for probably 4months, its taken me awhile to translate that new raw strength over to my geared benching. I think you're on the right track getting in it every other week, I usually get in mine for two weeks in a row and then go back to raw. Actually my raw strength has really jumped since going back to the shirt which I found somewhat odd.

What sorta stuff do you do for tricep strength?

if you can, throw up some video of you benching in the shirt, I'd love to see it. Really though, Pauls advice will be more valuable because he'll be there in person. He and I train very much alike.

You thinkin bout going 198 or 220 at the ProAm? Last I'd heard Shawn was going 220 but that was second hand


Im goin in at a light 220. Ive talked to Shawn and neither one of us likes the way they have this set up. The middles are a super open class up to 220, but they cut off the sat lifting at 198 and 220s who are in that class, lift on sunday. they get to see whatever the 198s did already and know what they have to hit to beat them and can plan attempts better. And of course its by formula, so we will both be light 220ers. I might be around 210-215 depending on how much my weight jumps-- but as long as my strength keeps coming im not gonna fight it. My raw squat and DL are up about 70 pounds! bench is finally climbing again... but abs are almost gone :(


here is a pic from this weekends NGBB CLassic Meet in Atlanta doing the classic bodybuilder thumbs-up pose haha

Tricep strength... umm closegrips sometimes, my overhead work, dips and pressdowns. been considering boards, maybe bands... but thats as far as its gotten in 4 years! haha still not sold on bands...

not doing near as much chest work, more shoulders tho. after the shirt work on fri i do some close grip boards for reps, then do supersets with db laterals, front raises, then standing strict presses, same 30lb DBs, nothing crazy, just to get a pump and to get everyone to give me **** about bodybuilding haha

monday work is standing strict BB OH presses, no leg drive, stay tight and pause at bottom like for a comp bench for sets of 10-12, so not real heavy. its more like a bodybuilding day with lighter weights and higher reps for size and a pump. follow with maybe incline dbs then some modified flyes that blast my shoulders, maybe laterals and arms BB style.

weds is sled dragging, upper back work, fri bench and arms, sunday squat/DL

Travis Bell
04-23-2008, 09:35 PM
yeah I'm not sure why they did that on the cut offs for weight classes. Lou actually isn't the one running this meet, he's more coordinating it? I don't quite know haha. But I know thats why he had to check with the guy who's running it to see if we could to bench only on the Am day.

It might make more sense to have the lights on one day, heavies on the other so everyone is on the same playing field. I s'pose though everyone is going to come into the meet knowing what they are capable of and is going to push the envelope. I wish Andy Bolton was comming, but he's pretty committed to the GPC right now

As for your tricep work, talk to Paul, but I'd probably hit up some extensor work. Those are really integral for lockout strength. I keep harping lockouts and I haven't even asked you where you stall on the bench in the shirt? Where do you stall? If you never have trouble locking stuff out, I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it right?

If you do, some JM presses, straight bar skull crushers, dumbbell rollbacks, along with your pressdowns and other work. When you do them, go for sets of 10-6 (maybe pyramid a little) I will add a little caution, when you start tricep extensor work, you absolutly must ease into it. Keep it light for awhile til you build up some quality base muscle and don't create some problems. I really took my time when building my extensors and now I never have elbow problems. Occasionally I'll have to ice them down after a workout, but normally no problems at all.
On your back day, jack up the weight and lower the reps to like sets of 8 and 6. Hammer those rear delts man. Off the chest in the shirt mostly comes from upper back and rear delt. Stabilization comes from lats and lockout comes from triceps.

Don't worry bout the abs. Think of it this way. Nobody is going to say at the meet "hey isn't that the guy with great abs who took third?"

you'd probably rather hear them say "hey, there's that guy that squatted 1100lbs at 220 lbs. He's heyooge!"

hahaha

chris mason
04-23-2008, 09:49 PM
More and more I'm becomming a fan of training full range in the shirt. Boards are priceless for overloads and breaking in the shirt, but for those of us who aren't advanced enough to be comfortable every time off the chest, we need to go full range more often.


I think this is a HUGE point which is being missed by so many lifters today and a big reason for bombing in meets. You simply cannot expect to not train regularly with a full ROM in your shirt prior to a meet and then be at your best full ROM on the day of the meet. Neural acclimation is a HUGE component of demonstrable strength. Even a 1" difference in ROM makes the movement very different to your CNS (hence why the conjugate method works so well).

Anyone reading this, I don't care how strong you are, you should be doing full ROM work for at LEAST 4 weeks prior to a meet. The work should be done in the shirt you plan to use for the meet.

chris mason
04-23-2008, 09:53 PM
Nice incline. I added inclines into my rotation for my raw training cycle last year. I think it did wonders for my raw, but does nothing for my equipped lifting. Post up your vid. Here's my 545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk

Lol, you suck!

I will be happy to get over the 400 lbs mark (raw) on the incline.

Travis Bell
04-23-2008, 10:02 PM
I think this is a HUGE point which is being missed by so many lifters today and a big reason for bombing in meets. You simply cannot expect to not train regularly with a full ROM in your shirt prior to a meet and then be at your best full ROM on the day of the meet. Neural acclimation is a HUGE component of demonstrable strength. Even a 1" difference in ROM makes the movement very different to your CNS (hence why the conjugate method works so well).

Anyone reading this, I don't care how strong you are, you should be doing full ROM work for at LEAST 4 weeks prior to a meet. The work should be done in the shirt you plan to use for the meet.


I completly agree. I was reminded last week when I went from a 1brd one set, to full rom the next at how big of a difference it was! Plus it takes the guess work out of it for figuring openers.

I think weight gain and loss plays a little bit into the shirts as well. Everyone just assumes that on meet day their shirts need to be alot tighter. Works for some guys, not so well for others.

Good post Chris!

vdizenzo
04-24-2008, 05:44 AM
I think this is a HUGE point which is being missed by so many lifters today and a big reason for bombing in meets. You simply cannot expect to not train regularly with a full ROM in your shirt prior to a meet and then be at your best full ROM on the day of the meet. Neural acclimation is a HUGE component of demonstrable strength. Even a 1" difference in ROM makes the movement very different to your CNS (hence why the conjugate method works so well).

Anyone reading this, I don't care how strong you are, you should be doing full ROM work for at LEAST 4 weeks prior to a meet. The work should be done in the shirt you plan to use for the meet.

I have been saying this for a long time. However, I am also learning to work the new poly shirts you have to break them in with boards. I do have to say I am slightly annoyed by this. I really like throwing on a shirt and just working full rom. It's just not the case anymore. You have to become a technician. Mind you, this is not gear bashing. I just happen to be an old dog having a hard time learning new tricks.

chris mason
04-24-2008, 06:29 AM
I have been saying this for a long time. However, I am also learning to work the new poly shirts you have to break them in with boards. I do have to say I am slightly annoyed by this. I really like throwing on a shirt and just working full rom. It's just not the case anymore. You have to become a technician. Mind you, this is not gear bashing. I just happen to be an old dog having a hard time learning new tricks.


Yep, I am assuming one has broken in one's shirt.

Big_Byrd52
04-24-2008, 06:44 AM
yeah I'm not sure why they did that on the cut offs for weight classes. Lou actually isn't the one running this meet, he's more coordinating it? I don't quite know haha. But I know thats why he had to check with the guy who's running it to see if we could to bench only on the Am day.

It might make more sense to have the lights on one day, heavies on the other so everyone is on the same playing field. I s'pose though everyone is going to come into the meet knowing what they are capable of and is going to push the envelope. I wish Andy Bolton was comming, but he's pretty committed to the GPC right now

As for your tricep work, talk to Paul, but I'd probably hit up some extensor work. Those are really integral for lockout strength. I keep harping lockouts and I haven't even asked you where you stall on the bench in the shirt? Where do you stall? If you never have trouble locking stuff out, I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it right?

If you do, some JM presses, straight bar skull crushers, dumbbell rollbacks, along with your pressdowns and other work. When you do them, go for sets of 10-6 (maybe pyramid a little) I will add a little caution, when you start tricep extensor work, you absolutly must ease into it. Keep it light for awhile til you build up some quality base muscle and don't create some problems. I really took my time when building my extensors and now I never have elbow problems. Occasionally I'll have to ice them down after a workout, but normally no problems at all.
On your back day, jack up the weight and lower the reps to like sets of 8 and 6. Hammer those rear delts man. Off the chest in the shirt mostly comes from upper back and rear delt. Stabilization comes from lats and lockout comes from triceps.

Don't worry bout the abs. Think of it this way. Nobody is going to say at the meet "hey isn't that the guy with great abs who took third?"

you'd probably rather hear them say "hey, there's that guy that squatted 1100lbs at 220 lbs. He's heyooge!"

hahaha

Well Travis, actually, i just dont think the rules need to apply to me! haha I want to hear them say "Damn, that guy just squatted 1200 AND is shredded!" haha Plus its a much better reaction when a girl asks u to flex and i just lift up my shirt to show off that 8 pack.... instant wet panties! haha

oh well, i can buy plenty of fat burners with my 10,000 grand this year!

The thing with the weigh-ins is that me and shawn will be really close again... provided i dont bomb and hand it over to him again... so if he came in at 198, or i did, then the other could just weigh in at 199, see what they finish up at, and be able to make smarter jumps in attempts cause u know exactly what u need to win. no need to take a risk.


i cant do any extensor work like skull crushers right now cause i have strained something in my elbow cramming up under the quat bar. hurts to get under bar and do anything with that skullcrusher motion. i think its my ulnar collateral ligament or something? i dont know-- buts its not fun. its like drilling my funny bone everytime i try.

as for stalling in a shirt, i think its the last inch or 2. i used to throw it back over my face but paul fixed that for me by having me flare sooner. But i really havent spent enough time in shirt to know. I know that raw i fail the last few inches, usually on my right side only

Travis Bell
04-24-2008, 06:46 AM
What happens Vin is too many of the fibers get broken and you lose alot of the rebound out of the shirt, or what can happen is the shirt will blow, because it hasn't been gradually stretched. Even the single ply shirts are like that now

vdizenzo
04-24-2008, 09:25 AM
I really did not know that shirts need to be broken in nowadays. I have about 8 weeks until my competition which puts me in the shirt six times. Hopefully this will be a good learning experience on how to break in a shirt.

Travis Bell
04-24-2008, 09:46 AM
Just work it down with the boards, like you said boards are good for two things, breakin in a shirt and lockout strength.

What Id do is start with a 4 and 3 board the first week. The next week go 3 and 2 board. Week after that I'd go 2brd and 1brd or just stay at 2brd, your choice on how you feel the shirt is going. 4th week definatly go 1brd and 5th week touch.

Don't be afraid to get out the spray bottle and wet down the shirt a little before you touch.

haha I learned the hard way shirts have to be broken in. POP! *smoosh* haha. Good thing for spotters eh?

My 2 cents when doing the 3 and 4brds, dont' be afraid to do a couple sets of doubles. Taking it to your absolut max single will more than likely put you close to 1000 or over and thats not really necessary. Just take it light and work in the shirt. When you get down to the 2brds, start searching for the max single.

When I go to the chest the first time I like to go pretty close to as heavy as I can because that way I have a really good idea of where I'm at. After that I don't need to go quite as heavy and can work on technique and speed.

The first time I touched in my shirt this time I took a page from Paul Key's book and used a crap load of band tension. I really liked it

dbcb314
04-24-2008, 09:47 AM
So for raw, do you guys like putting boards on DE days, after speed work? And what kind of rep range are you guys talking? 3x3-5?

Big_Byrd52
04-24-2008, 09:50 AM
yea, we kinda highjacked this thread, sorry haha

lets get a definate answer on that trav

vdizenzo
04-24-2008, 12:08 PM
So for raw, do you guys like putting boards on DE days, after speed work? And what kind of rep range are you guys talking? 3x3-5?

I never did boards on DE day when training for raw. I always did them as a secondary exercise on my ME days. I really focused on multiple sets of barbell and dumbell extensions and JM's in the 3-6 rep range.

Travis Bell
04-24-2008, 12:43 PM
So for raw, do you guys like putting boards on DE days, after speed work? And what kind of rep range are you guys talking? 3x3-5?

I did when I was training solely raw, but I kept the rep range from 8-10 and would only do like 4brd or occasionally 3brd. I rotated it every other week.

I dropped it after getting back in my shirt though. CNS just doesn't have enough time to recover

Travis Bell
04-24-2008, 12:44 PM
yea, we kinda highjacked this thread, sorry haha

probably my fault, I get pumped talking about benching both raw and shirted and I really like sharing different ideas and such so its easy for me to get off topic haha

thewicked
04-24-2008, 04:09 PM
I like the 3brd idea..i've just now switched to 3brds for my tricep work after DE days since they're so light and close grip bench presses on ME days in hopes to develop more power in the press. The jm presses and barbell extensions don't seem to be working as well as they should. I have noticed an increase in strength when all i've been doing is heavy laterals for shoulder work isntead of push presses and saving all the pushing for the benching movements

thewicked
04-24-2008, 04:10 PM
probably my fault, I get pumped talking about benching both raw and shirted and I really like sharing different ideas and such so its easy for me to get off topic haha

oh no this is good ****... sharing of ideas is what this whole website idea is about.

Travis Bell
04-24-2008, 05:41 PM
I like the 3brd idea..i've just now switched to 3brds for my tricep work after DE days since they're so light and close grip bench presses on ME days in hopes to develop more power in the press. The jm presses and barbell extensions don't seem to be working as well as they should. I have noticed an increase in strength when all i've been doing is heavy laterals for shoulder work isntead of push presses and saving all the pushing for the benching movements

Floor presses are good too. Do you bench elbow out or really tucked?

kingkong51
04-24-2008, 09:27 PM
well find out what u getting your strength gains from a go wit it but switch it up too

thewicked
04-25-2008, 07:44 AM
Nice incline. I added inclines into my rotation for my raw training cycle last year. I think it did wonders for my raw, but does nothing for my equipped lifting. Post up your vid. Here's my 545 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBtqqGv0Gk

hahaha big vince that video was AWESOME! HAHA I LOVE YOUR REACTION! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! :omg: :thumbup:

thewicked
04-25-2008, 07:49 AM
Floor presses are good too. Do you bench elbow out or really tucked?

TRAVIS i'm using floor presses as an ME exercise so doing them for accessory work is okay?!?

I bench with my elbows tucked in tight..because it's comfortable. I used to bench with a wide grip awhile back. I worked up to 470 for a single and tried 495 thinking it was only 25more lbs and my spotter didn't grab it when my shoulder dipped and I paid for it. I'm finally back in the low 400's again. I bench very narrow keeping my forearms under my wrists to be more efficient in the power transfer and elbows tucked like louie recommends..here's a video of my comp bench from last weekend with 405...


http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/biggerbusiness2006/th_400.jpg (http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/biggerbusiness2006/?action=view&current=400.flv)

Travis Bell
04-25-2008, 08:09 AM
yeah doing them as an ascessory is fine, so long as its not the same week you're doing it as an ME exercise haha

Man, you've got a long stroke!! Do you know what your injury was specifically when your spotter didn't grab it?

Don't be afraid to slowly move your grip out, just keep those elbows tucked. I'd tuck yours even further personally, but you are definatly on the right track.

The reason I tuck my elbows so much when benching raw is that I can use my triceps that way for the press, it also takes a ton of stress off the shoulders. Plus I get the added benefit of not changing my groove much when I put my shirt on.

thewicked
04-28-2008, 07:59 AM
yeah doing them as an ascessory is fine, so long as its not the same week you're doing it as an ME exercise haha

Man, you've got a long stroke!! Do you know what your injury was specifically when your spotter didn't grab it?

Don't be afraid to slowly move your grip out, just keep those elbows tucked. I'd tuck yours even further personally, but you are definatly on the right track.

The reason I tuck my elbows so much when benching raw is that I can use my triceps that way for the press, it also takes a ton of stress off the shoulders. Plus I get the added benefit of not changing my groove much when I put my shirt on.

HAHA yeah well I'm 6'1" with ape hangers for arms.. so yeah it's a long bench press without an arch!

okay good deal..i just didn't want to screw my cns or anything else by doing them for an ME exercise and an accessory exercise at the same time.


yeah on my bench press accident my right shoulder dipped out and the spotter let me sit there at the bottom while i'm yelling take it over and over again. I press that narrow for comfort and it feels overall stronger of a press than when I go wider. I've been working on my wide grip on my DE days with speed work....it's comfy enough but i'm going to only do the wider grip stuff on the lighter accessory work and DE stuff.

thanks so much for the help guys.. I'm excited about getting into the conjugate method again.