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SGT ROCK
05-20-2008, 01:29 AM
Another thread got semi hijacked (lol) by the topic of bodyweight vs weight lifted. The Schwartz formula was originally intended to make it more even so to speak. In other words, in my eyes its painfully obvious, that is a 300lb man benches 900 or triple bw, it is more impressive than a 114lb man doing 342 or triple bodyweight. So lets have a discussion about this.....some seem to have zero respect for the bodyweight issue, meaning if you lift more weight yoru stronger....period...without taking account the bodyweight. Here is your chance to post your views. I compete at 242 and 220 so many would say I am a middleweight. I have respect for ALL big weights lifted, but sometimes lean a bit more towards a heavier lifter. I am going to start another thread as we speak on BEST LIFTS OF ALL TIME, another chance to post your views. I appreciate all of the GREAT feedback we have been getting lately, thank you.

Semper Fi

johnnytang24
05-20-2008, 05:06 AM
I like to see the effort. I like watching Brian Siders lift with what appears to be little effort. Or watching someone grinding out a lift. Ultimately, of course, the weight moved is the barometer of success, but just looking at stats is boring. The human element is what makes it interesting.

I think as a sport, having weight classes adds another dimension to the game. Will he make weight? Will he go down in weight to challenge X? Where did I leave my keys? This doesn't necessarily make it more interesting to watch, just another variable to follow.

Fuzzy
05-20-2008, 05:47 AM
http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html

Rob Luyando
05-20-2008, 08:03 AM
Tripple body weight lifts aren't that impressive anymore becuase so many people have done this. Kennelly's tripple body weight lifts are sick because the size of the guy and the fact that he man handles over a a grand. But talking benching 4x body weight has to be the most impressive becuase its only been done once or twice.

Travis Bell
05-20-2008, 08:47 AM
I have great respect for both. As for which would I rather watch? I'd rather watch the 900+ bench.

course its pretty impressive watching George bench more than most people my weight too haha.

Xellarz
05-20-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm a small guy, and I was just about to say I'd much rather watch the big guys lift. Seeing that much weight being moved is awesome. But...I thought a little more, and I guess it's a toss up - the best small guys always have such incredible form. I like watching them lift to learn what form should look like.

As for the #xbw lifts, of course the big guys are more impressive. BUT, a lot of the time, I don't agree with the coefficients...but I can imagine that it's pretty hard to come up with the formulas, so I can't rip on them too much.

PriestCometh
05-20-2008, 11:58 AM
First off, anyone doing triple is a hell of a lifter.
3x bodyweight is still 3x bodyweight.

should someone be impressed if a lifter gets sloppy fat and goes two weight classes up just to get 50 more pounds on there bench?

I have a question out of curiousity. if a guy is a super heavyweight and benches 800, is that more impressive than a guy weighing 165 benching over 550?

dbcb314
05-20-2008, 12:46 PM
I HATE with a passion "I squat Yx more per bodyweight than you so I am stronger." It infuriates me and the only people that do it are people that are small.

Ryano
05-20-2008, 02:15 PM
He who lifts the most wins. If you are all about winning, get bigger and stronger so you can lift more. Smaller people always have higher x bw lifts and formulas will always favor the heavier lifter. I lift to beat the weight, it's all about PR's anyway. Not winning.

Ryano
05-20-2008, 02:18 PM
P.S. If I walk away from a meet with a PR, I don't care if I'm dead last or not!

thewicked
05-20-2008, 02:20 PM
Tripple body weight lifts aren't that impressive anymore becuase so many people have done this. Kennelly's tripple body weight lifts are sick because the size of the guy and the fact that he man handles over a a grand. But talking benching 4x body weight has to be the most impressive becuase its only been done once or twice.

i agree with rob unless it's raw.. doing triple or more of your body weight in a squat or dead and over double in the bench is good stuff for sure!

youngguns
05-20-2008, 04:06 PM
big weight is always more fun to watch, but i still think anyone who can throw up 3x their body weight on a bench is impressive. im not even to 1.5x my bw bench, so i guess a lot of things are impressive to me, lol. but like some others said earlier, i think if you walk away with some PR's, then thats all that counts.

Rob Luyando
05-20-2008, 04:20 PM
i agree with rob unless it's raw.. doing triple or more of your body weight in a squat or dead and over double in the bench is good stuff for sure!

What is Raw? I am an equiped lifter so that is the only sport I pay attention to.

PriestCometh
05-20-2008, 05:22 PM
I HATE with a passion "I squat Yx more per bodyweight than you so I am stronger." It infuriates me and the only people that do it are people that are small.

I have a question out of curiousity. if a guy is a super heavyweight and benches 800, is that more impressive than a guy weighing 165 benching over 550?

It has nothing to do with being small. It has to do with a lift being impressive.
some cat on another forum told me that an 800 bench at super was more impressive than a 550@165 bench. he couldnt be more wrong.

This is why:
There have been 25 benches over 800@super heavyweight.

There have been only 10 done 550@165 ever.

I will have to call some guys to get them to go to a buffet and they can eat there way outta being small. lol.

The thing is, big guys can do it too. Ryan, Scot, Luyando have done it. it just takes hard work.

I just think it is the wrong thing to go out and promote to young lifters. Just eat your way to heavyweight and you will bench more. These guys that are putting up big numbers that are heavier have put years of work in and arent in bad shape. but, if a young lifter hears that they just need to gain weight, it becomes a health issue. Do you guys think that is good for the sport? We want folks to get big by putting on muscle mass, not 200 pounds of BBQ ribs(which are very good).

Still a debate. A good one.

Travis Bell
05-20-2008, 05:46 PM
well if all the SHW's go the way of Wolf, they'll be down in the 242 class in no time haha.

Personally I think an 800 bench is more impressive than a 550 bench. That doesn't mean I don't think a 550 bench is cool because it is and definatly deserves my respect. In fact some of the lifters I hold in highest regards are on the lighter side such as Joe Mazza and Fred Boldt. Its just that seeing 800lbs on the bar is cooler to me than seeing 550. Its nothing personal, just is what it is.

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting people eat their way up classes though. I started out in the 181 class when I began lifting, now I'm in the 242 class, people get bigger the longer they train

johnnytang24
05-20-2008, 06:34 PM
Is a 901@400 deadlift more impressive than a 900@114 deadlift? After all, more weight is moved. I think coefficients and percentiles are pretty important in determining how great a lift is.

nhlfan
05-20-2008, 06:55 PM
how many full grown powerlifters actually weigh 165?

There's a bigger pool of SHW who have been training long enough to be really strong for their weight. 800 is just as impressive as 550, if not more.

Travis Bell
05-20-2008, 07:03 PM
Is a 901@400 deadlift more impressive than a 900@114 deadlift? After all, more weight is moved. I think coefficients and percentiles are pretty important in determining how great a lift is.

thats not really the comparison we're talking about here but when a 114lb dude deadlifts 900lbs you let me know haha. I really doubt thats going to happen.

only person who set the bar in that respect is Coan and he's really the exception to the rule but definatly an awesome lifter

Fuzzy
05-21-2008, 01:50 AM
Meh... if I hadnt started Oly lifting I would be 250+ now eating my way to become a super.

johnnytang24
05-21-2008, 05:51 AM
thats not really the comparison we're talking about here but when a 114lb dude deadlifts 900lbs you let me know haha. I really doubt thats going to happen.

only person who set the bar in that respect is Coan and he's really the exception to the rule but definatly an awesome lifter

Well, that example might be a little extreme, but my point is that if only total weight is considered, the 901@400 is a better lift than the 900@114. If you consider the 900 a more impressive lift, then you are using some sort of formula to judge lifts, whether it be coefficient, percentage bodyweight, or just 'gut feeling', and you ARE using bodyweight in your considerations.

Me, I still think it's more about watching the lift than the weight on the bar.

Thanks.

RhodeHouse
05-21-2008, 08:55 AM
Weight lifted is more impressive. It's always the tiny guys who can do a million pull-ups and all that stuff. It's more impressive to see a 300lb man do 3 or 4 pull-ups than a 150 boy do 20.

This may not make sense to some, but 900lbs@300bwt or 550@165bwt - It's 900lbs! It's a half of a ton (almost). 900lbs! Go to your gym and load 900 on a bar with 45's. Load 550 right next to it. And, just look at it. It's still only 550 compared to 900lbs.

I'm not taking anything away from the little guys (you're so cute in your XXM singlets and t-shirts). If you're setting PR's and getting stronger, so be it. That's cool. At the end of the day, the heavier the weight, the more impressive it looks.

Take WSM, for example. No weight classes. The implements weigh a certain amount of lbs, and all the athletes, from 400lb Terry Hollands to 275lb Jason Bergman lift the same amount of weight.

And, have you ever seen lightweight WSM on TV? Why not? It's just not that impressive watching a little guy flip a 700lb tire when the big dogs are flipping 1000lb tires.

The thing that impresses most people is somebody doing something that they can't do. Naturally, I'm a little more impressed with some tiny people's benches, as I am not very good at benching, but, I watch 2 800lb benchers every week at the gym, so, my expectations are a lot higher.

I think it's great for the lifter that hit a weight and sets a PR, but at the end of the day, the more weight lifted is more impressive.

Keith
05-21-2008, 08:59 AM
:withstupi:


And that's coming from a little guy.

DrDudley-Robey
05-21-2008, 10:06 AM
how many full grown powerlifters actually weigh 165?

There's a bigger pool of SHW who have been training long enough to be really strong for their weight. 800 is just as impressive as 550, if not more.

Brian Schwab, Hooper, Mazza, Kutcher , myself and many others compete at 165 also.

Believe me as hard as it is to lift the weights, sometimes making weight for weigh-ins is just as hard. This is a part of the game that the SHW dont have to deal with and that is an advantage also.

chris mason
05-21-2008, 10:19 AM
Body weight is a bit tricky in my book because it doesn't take height into account. For example, you could have a guy who is 5'3" tall and weighs in for the 242 lbs class. He has a TON of muscle and a short ROM. So, him lifting more by coefficient than a 6'2" 340 lbs man is not nearly as impressive as it might seem by the numbers.

I respect all big lifts and classes, but like most people, I like to see the biggest weights lifted and thus the heavier weight classes.

RhodeHouse
05-21-2008, 10:43 AM
Brian Schwab, Hooper, Mazza, Kutcher , myself and many others compete at 165 also.

Believe me as hard as it is to lift the weights, sometimes making weight for weigh-ins is just as hard. This is a part of the game that the SHW dont have to deal with and that is an advantage also.

Walk around at over 300lbs, and making the 165lb weigh-in, will be a walk in the park. I've been 165lbs. I know what it's like. You haven't been 300+, so saying that being a SHW is easy, is just plain ridiculous. There are so many things that you don't have to think about when you're 165lbs. Try fitting in a bathroom stall, or wiping your ass, or holding a cell phone to your ear for more than 30 seconds. Making the weigh-in for 165 would be like stealing candy from a baby.

Chris made an excellent point, as well. Height is never taken into account. Well said, Chris. Well said.

PriestCometh
05-21-2008, 10:57 AM
I have to correct myself.

There have been over 40 benches done in the heavies that are 800+.

Only 10 550+@165.

40 is definately more than 10 last time i went to a math class.

that is why it is more impressive. it is more RARE to see.

vdizenzo
05-21-2008, 11:03 AM
Yeah, I have cut 17 lbs in a day to make 275's. That is nothing in comparison to carying 328lbs. around all day everyday. Walking ten steps and feeling like someone is stabbing you in the back. Sweating in the middle of the winter while only wearing shorts and flip flops. Your hands and wrists so swollen it's hard to get a fork to your mouth. The list goes on and on. Those are sacrifices big guys make everyday to push big weights.

I respect the lighter classes, but don't try to convince me life is more punishing as a lightweight.

vdizenzo
05-21-2008, 11:05 AM
I have to correct myself.

There have been over 40 benches done in the heavies that are 800+.

Only 10 550+@165.

40 is definately more than 10 last time i went to a math class.

that is why it is more impressive. it is more RARE to see.




What's rare is to see adult male powerlifters that weigh only 165 :ninja: Take That!

thewicked
05-21-2008, 11:32 AM
What is Raw? I am an equiped lifter so that is the only sport I pay attention to.

no supportive gear save belt, wrist wraps, or knee wraps.

dbcb314
05-21-2008, 11:42 AM
What's rare is to see adult male powerlifters that weigh only 165 :ninja: Take That!
exactly, unless your a midget, who the hell lifts weights and stays under 165?

I have never understood why anyone would want lift weights to be that small. And yes I said small. You don't have to get fat to weigh all the way up to 242 and some freaks still arent fat a 275 and beyond.



*some 165's are jacked like shaub. exception not the rule

HP666
05-21-2008, 12:45 PM
Walk around at over 300lbs, and making the 165lb weigh-in, will be a walk in the park. I've been 165lbs. I know what it's like.

Me too Rhodes, when I was seven. :evillaugh:

PriestCometh
05-21-2008, 02:41 PM
What's rare is to see adult male powerlifters that weigh only 165 :ninja: Take That!

lol.

Actually as an example.
54 198ers that competed at WABDL worlds last year.

53 220s

38 181ers

32 308s

32 Super Heavies

30 165ers

21 275ers

This is not counting the teen divisions.

Actually, there are alot of Adult males who compete that dont have clothes with stretch marks. :burger: J/K

PriestCometh
05-21-2008, 02:43 PM
exactly, unless your a midget, who the hell lifts weights and stays under 165?

I have never understood why anyone would want lift weights to be that small. And yes I said small. You don't have to get fat to weigh all the way up to 242 and some freaks still arent fat a 275 and beyond.



*some 165's are jacked like shaub. exception not the rule

And the guys who are 275+ who are in great shape are rare too.:ninja:

vdizenzo
05-21-2008, 02:52 PM
lol.

Actually as an example.
54 198ers that competed at WABDL worlds last year.



38 181ers




30 165ers



This is not counting the teen divisions.




That is counting the female divisions right?

Listen, I think it is great that people of all stature like to compete. However, I got into powerlifting to be big. Most people associate powerliting with big people. If people have to take their shirts off to show they lift they are not big. Sorry.

Guido
05-21-2008, 03:26 PM
Last time I checked powerlifting was not about being BIG, it's about being STRONG.

PriestCometh
05-21-2008, 05:03 PM
That is counting the female divisions right?

Listen, I think it is great that people of all stature like to compete. However, I got into powerlifting to be big. Most people associate powerliting with big people. If people have to take their shirts off to show they lift they are not big. Sorry.


not including females, vinny.

There is nothing wrong with being big. But we promote it so much that young folks will do anything they can to weigh 300 pounds. We all wanna be big, but not with big floppy titties.

and that is part of the problem. we want more people in our sport. if most of them think we have to eat 30 cheeseburgers a day and can't untie there shoes, they wont compete. The more people we get, the more popular it gets. the more popular it gets, the more money would be involved. I am sure we all like money in here. What is wrong with trying to get bigger and healthier?

PriestCometh
05-21-2008, 05:08 PM
I have to agree with Guido, I got in this sport to get stronger, not fatter.

Everyone wants to get bigger. Big difference between bigger and fatter.

Your the goods Vin. I dig the fact that we can talk about stuff here and nobody takes crap personal and a subject is ACTUALLY debated.

f-rider
05-21-2008, 07:16 PM
exactly, unless your a midget, who the hell lifts weights and stays under 165?

Short guys. It's not just the height limiting the amount of mass you can put on, but also digestive system capacity. A lot of the shorter guys eat like you wouldn't believe and still have trouble maintaining that kind of weight. Take for example Victor Furazhkin - he competed in the 181 class for less than two years before he started having pancreas problems from trying to maintain that weight.

Also people who care about their Wilks scores or appearance (ie - narcissists :)).

vdizenzo
05-21-2008, 07:43 PM
I like to be big, but I like to be healthy. I have been known to throw down some McDonald's or an entire cake, however, the vast majority of my diet is pretty healthy. Anyone who has taken the time to ask me knows I take nutrition and supplementation seriously. My bloodwork is good and my bp is 116/72. A lot of big guys are heathier than you think. I do conditioning work regularly. I guess I should preach this a bit more to the new guys, but I can't stand listening to the self righteous skinny guys.

Viking_Power
05-21-2008, 07:51 PM
To me, there is nothing more impressive than someone lifting more weight than anyone else can regardless of size. I'm a smaller guy (196), and I would never walk up to a 300 pounder and say well for my weight I am actully stronger than you.

DrDudley-Robey
05-21-2008, 08:05 PM
[QUOTE=RhodeHouse;1932093] There are so many things that you don't have to think about when you're 165lbs. Try fitting in a bathroom stall, or wiping your ass, or holding a cell phone to your ear for more than 30 seconds. Making the weigh-in for 165 would be like stealing candy from a baby. QUOTE]

Thank god. If you cannot wipe your ass it is time to lose weight! You health will suffer alot at that point also. For a guy who is sponsored by a nutrition company you are setting a very bad example.

If a big guy has a good muscular build keep on trucking. But when you start to have more rolls than a bakery and a belly the makes you look preg it time to forget about powerlifting and worry about your health.

Obesity is a disease, but it also poses a threat as a common risk factor for various adult diseases. Compared to non-obese people, obese people have a 4-fold higher incidence rate of high blood pressure, 8-fold for diabetes, 10-fold for hyperlipidemia, and 2.5-fold for fatty liver. When the body adds excess fat, physical changes and vascular system abnormalities occur, such as an increase of fat in blood. Increased body weight puts strain on the body's joints, especially the knees, so there is a high chance of degenerative arthritis. Cholelithiasis, amenorrhea, and infertility are also associated with obesity.

Obesity-associated Diseases include:
1. Diabetes
2. Hyperlipidemia
3. Blood circulation diseases like arteriosclerosis, high blood pressure, heart disease, and palsy
4. Skin disease
5. Joint problems, back, knee, and ankle pain
6. Liver disease
7. Cholelithiasis
8. Menstrual abnormalities
9. Female infertility
10. Breast cancer - autodiagnosis
11. Endometrium cancer
12. Decline in libido
13. Mental stress


Please keep this sport in perspective. You can live to powerlift, but don't die for it.

smokinHawk
05-21-2008, 08:15 PM
what i like is walking in at 165 and benching more then then guys twice my weight (granted its only the locals)
to me what is impressive is when the "little guys" lift more then the big guys.

Hazerboy
05-21-2008, 08:35 PM
If the only thing impressive about powerlifting was seeing large weights moved around, lifters would walk on the platform with a forklift. What's impressive is seeing a flesh, blood, and bone human being doing something that would shatter his bones,tear his muscles from the tendons, and pummel his body to the floor if he hadn't put weeks, months, and years into training. That, AND the fact that its a crazy amount of weight.

Take the phone book tear for example, a pretty basic feat of strength. I've torn a few in front of friends, their immediate reaction is usually: "Sweet jesus, your hercules!" BUT if I show them the beginner's technique - popping the binding -I can get most athletes to tear them, and the feat immediately becomes unimpressive. Nothing has changed about the phonebook--its still as rigid as ever--but now that just about anyone can do it, no one cares.

Blockweights are a different story. I spent six months training to pick up my 42.5 lb blockweight. I busted my ass to pick that thing up, and still when I show my friends they don't see what the big deal is. Sure, when they walk up to it they can't move the damn thing, but it just doesn't have that last "unbelievable" factor. If you just looked at it, you'd never think it was so hard.

So I guess what I'm saying is, you just can't have one or the other. Something just can't "look really hard" to be impressive, or just "be really hard" to be impressive, it has to be both. From what I'm reading most experienced powerlifters side with the "look really hard" element. In other words, 900 lbs is more impressive because its NINE HUNDRED FREAKING POUNDS. Who cares how much the guy weighs, or that its probably just as hard for a 165 lb lifter to lift 550 lbs.

Now, things start to become interesting when you take the layman into account, people that our sport can and should want to appeal to. They're much more divided than this, which I why I think the lighter weight classes are needed.

Take my dad for instance. One time we sat down and watched the world's strongest man together, and I could see he wasn't too impressed with one competitor deadlifting 700 lbs or so for 8 or 9 reps. "But dad, its SEVEN HUNDRED POUNDS!" "So? He's just a fat guy" he responded. It could have been a thousand lbs and it wouldn't have been any more impressive to him, because its just a number, and you need real experience to appreciate it.

NOW, when my dad videos of my 485 in competition deadlift, he almost flipped a ****, cause I'm kind of a little guy. He couldn't believe someone of my size could handle that kind of weight (I didn't have the heart to tell him people of even smaller sizes had handled more).

Is my dad characteristic of layman? Maybe. I'd say lay fans (i.e. me asking my friends) are somewhere around 50/50 with being impressed with "just some fat guY" moving a bunch of weight and seeing some little dude bench press triple bodyweight. this is important, cause these are the people powerlifting needs to appeal to to get big.

Wow, I think I wrote more than I expected. Anyways, I'll end on one last observation I've encountered while talking about powerlifting to friends. For the 50% of my friends whose eyes get wide with utter astonishment when I tell them the world record bench is somewhere in the 1100s, their spirits usually drop when I explain to them what gear is, and that it was done with gear. They dismiss the weight, similar to how they dismissed barry bonds impressive accomplishment when he was under steroid accusations. Obviously they're missing something--we all know geared lifting is still hard as ****--but they miss that, and right or wrong, they're the people we need to appeal to if this sport is going to ever garner any popularity.

vdizenzo
05-21-2008, 08:46 PM
Dr. Dudley you make me want to go eat an entire box of Hostess Cakes. Get of your soap box. This is why I hate lightweights. I take it all back I have very little respect for very few lightweights. Get big and lift big. I am no longer impressed by people who lift weights that I use to warm up.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting “Holy s--t, what a ride!"

vdizenzo
05-21-2008, 09:16 PM
Wow, I think I wrote more than I expected. Anyways, I'll end on one last observation I've encountered while talking about powerlifting to friends. For the 50% of my friends whose eyes get wide with utter astonishment when I tell them the world record bench is somewhere in the 1100s, their spirits usually drop when I explain to them what gear is, and that it was done with gear. They dismiss the weight, similar to how they dismissed barry bonds impressive accomplishment when he was under steroid accusations. Obviously they're missing something--we all know geared lifting is still hard as ****--but they miss that, and right or wrong, they're the people we need to appeal to if this sport is going to ever garner any popularity.

I nor anyone else in powerlifting has to appeal to anyone for approval. This sport was here without them and will be here long after they are gone. I don't care if it's popular. I just want to Smash F'ing Weights!

I am sick of the gear thing. When I was on television competing in Bench America I got a phone call from someone who called information to get my number and tell me how awesome it was for someone from his state to bench so much and win his class. He never once mentioned equipment. It's we in the sport who make a big deal out of equipment not the general public. Here's a little tip from an old pro, equipment sponsors are just about the only people who put some money into this sport. Try to promote them. I can lift with and without it, but I don't talk crap about it or put it down.

Did you know guys used to wear super tight cut off jeans under singlets before equipment? How about that guys used to tuck balls behind their knees under their wraps? People have always tried to figure out a way to push more weight. It takes balls of steel to get under 800-900 on the bench with a shirt or under 1000+ on a squat. Bones can snap like twigs. I have seen it.

I don't like the direction this board is heading in. These debate threads are crap. I hope it's not time to find a new home.

Travis Bell
05-21-2008, 09:23 PM
hahaha looking over this thread what I take away from it is that we all seem to be really happy with where our weight is currently. I'm 255 on a pretty steady basis and yes, I ate and ate and ate to get there. What I ate was chicken, tuna, fish, steak etc. Just because someone decides to bulk doesn't mean its unhealthy food. Although I certainly don't mind doing some serious damage at McDonalds on occasion haha. Am I huge? Nope. But I love the weight I'm at. Vin used to be heavier, but decided to lose some weight. He's still a monster haha. Priest on the other hand likes the weight he's at, although he's probably bigger than most of the Joe Average public haha and has a bench to go along with it.

I guess my point is I just noticed we all like the weight we're at. Thats a good thing fellas. It boils down to personal preferance. I don't think its fair to judge someone for their choice or try and scare them with medical problems haha.

One person I really respect in this area is Wolf. He was 400+ for years and loved being that size! Then about a year ago he decided he wanted to lose weight, so he did. He was quite content there and did very very well in comp. Now he wants to lose even more weight and I think thats great. Its really about whatever you want to do. If you want to be 165, I think thats great! If you want to be 300, thats awesome as well! The only opinion that matters is your own.

And Vin everyone knows that oatmeal cream pies are much better tasting than hostess cakes anyways hahahaha!

Travis Bell
05-21-2008, 09:27 PM
I don't like the direction this board is heading in. These debate threads are crap. I hope it's not time to find a new home.

I think this one just got a little more personal than it should have. Don't leave us Vin!!!!!! I really enjoy your input and perspective and hope to continue watching you pursue your new found bench career

Hazerboy
05-22-2008, 01:41 AM
Dudley-

There are health risks with every sport, it comes with the territory. How many retired pro football players do you think have working knees? Or have similar obesity related health problems? This is just a sacrifice you make to be successful in your sport. Who are you to be critical of how someone else chooses to live their life?


I nor anyone else in powerlifting has to appeal to anyone for approval. This sport was here without them and will be here long after they are gone. I don't care if it's popular ...

...Here's a little tip from an old pro, equipment sponsors are just about the only people who put some money into this sport. Try to promote them. I can lift with and without it, but I don't talk crap about it or put it down.
.

You make a valid point, you don't have to appeal to anyone, and powerlifting will be around as long as there are competitors, even if there isn't anyone around to watch. But at least recognize that thats your opinion, and it isn't shared by all - some of us, me included (new as I am), would like to see powerlifting garner some more attention.

Which gear may or may not help. Please understand that earlier I wasn't trying to bash gear or start another debate, I was only saying that the ill-informed public may not have the best perception of gear -- which is who you would want to appeal to if you'd want more popularity. BUT, gear sponsers also put a lot of money into the sport, like you've said, which is hard to ignore, so its a hard question.

But whatever. My point was really that usually more experienced lifters respect the heavier weights no matter what you weigh, because they know what it takes to get there, and for the layman the number is really meaningless so seeing a smaller guy lift a lot of weight is more impressive.


anyways, I think travis has made the best point here -- everyone's going to defend whatever weight they're at, because if they wanted to be at another weight class, they probably would.

SGT ROCK
05-22-2008, 02:05 AM
Keep it coming bros, it is great to see that everyone has an opinion and is willing to share. On some of the other boards, it turns into flaming and disrepect when it comes to discussing certain issues. This thread, for the most part, is informative and is generating much feedback in a CIVIL fashion. Always remember, just because you, I or anyone else has an opinion, doesnt mean that it is right! As for this topic, there really is no RIGHT answer, its OPINIONS. In my eyes, YOU HAVE TO RESPECT A 4XBW bench....you just gotta! Coan doing 4xbw in the pull at 220 is also remarkable. Keep your opinions coming bros...thanks for staying on topic and keeping it civil.

Semper Fi

DrDudley-Robey
05-22-2008, 03:27 AM
[QUOTE=Hazerboy;1932612]Dudley-There are health risks with every sport, it comes with the territory. How many retired pro football players do you think have working knees? Or have similar obesity related health problems? This is just a sacrifice you make to be successful in your sport. Who are you to be critical of how someone else chooses to live their life?QUOTE]



You are right you do see similar health problems in some football players. You also see them complaing about, suffering from or dying because of them. Fortunately, there is a Players Union that gets these guys some (not always enough) help. There has been alot of press about this (HBO did a big segment on it).

In powerlifting, if you get sick or hurt there is nothing.

We not make the money or have the benifits that an NFL player does. We do this for the love of the sport.

I know alot of lifters who I have tried to help over the years suffering from problems related to obesity ranging from Diabetes and Back, Neck, and Joint problems to Congestive Heart Failure. Some have lost everything. I bet you know some too.

I am not bashing or putting down the SHW. I love seeing the big guys lift! Some of my best friends are SHW lifters and I support them 100%.

Not all big lifters are fat. The thing stated earlier about the WSM though they are all huge, the most successful ones are like Mariusz Pudzianowski who is cut like a bodybuilder not the overweight guys.

If lifters make a choice to be a certain size and if they can handle everything that goes with it more power to them.

However here is reality.

When a person writes that he is so overweight that he cannot preform normal daily life activities (he said that he could not wipe his own ass), that person needs help.

vdizenzo
05-22-2008, 05:45 AM
Zydrunas Savikas is close to 400 lbs. and blows Pudzianowski out of the water in strongman. Who needs a six pack when you can have a keg!

Rob Luyando
05-22-2008, 07:42 AM
OK I am going to throw my 2 cents out there. Weight is weight pick it up and lift it. Simple as that right? Weather your a 165er or SHW you still have to bust your ass to be the best you can be and the strongest you can be. **** formula's its all about PR's. Isn't that what you should be training for a PR? You may go to meet and have to go against a World Record Holder and get your ass handed to you but that doesn't make you failure if you went to the meet gave it your best and walked away with a PR!

As far as the skinny vs. Large debate that is almost as old as the equiped vs. raw debate. Let them rest. Lift how you want at the body weight you want.

Travis I am really disapointed in your man! There is nothing better then Hostess!

PriestCometh
05-22-2008, 11:28 AM
Dr. Dudley you make me want to go eat an entire box of Hostess Cakes. Get of your soap box. This is why I hate lightweights. I take it all back I have very little respect for very few lightweights. Get big and lift big. I am no longer impressed by people who lift weights that I use to warm up.

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting “Holy s--t, what a ride!"

Wow, hating lightweights? Pretty harsh, Killer. :eek:
And by most lightweights train of thought, they warm up with more than you(pound for pound). I can understand both sides of this debate. Put 3.5 times bodyweight on and feel how non-impressive it is.

I did find this cool buffet in texas. It had all you can eat crawfish and crab legs!!!!!! I havent found anything that cool out here.

You cant leave here Vinny, we dig you. This is all just talkin. Other places would pull this post or have some anonymous folks talking sh%t about people.
The cool part about here is nobody should take this stuff to heart.

I looooove crawfish.:fart:

Rob Luyando
05-22-2008, 12:26 PM
Preist not to rain on your parade or anything but you are hardly a light weight you a fat head trapped in a smaller frame.

PriestCometh
05-22-2008, 01:04 PM
Zydrunas Savikas is close to 400 lbs. and blows Pudzianowski out of the water in strongman. Who needs a six pack when you can have a keg!

I talked to Savikas at the arnold and he said it depends on what competition. The arnold suits Savickas cuz it is all straight strength events. Marius does really well when it is a strength event that requires cardio.

I dig kegs. LOL

PriestCometh
05-22-2008, 01:11 PM
Preist not to rain on your parade or anything but you are hardly a light weight you a fat head trapped in a smaller frame.

I prefer to be called big boned. :)

PriestCometh
05-22-2008, 01:21 PM
Dave is a funny cat.

SGT ROCK
05-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Ok bros....back on topic please!!!!!

Semper Fi