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BG5150
05-29-2008, 08:33 AM
I used to be able to in my volleyball-playing days in college. Barely, but was able to.

(I even dunked on the court at the Meadowlands--Continental Airlines Area, or the Izod Centre, or whatever the hell it's called these days. Also, on the West 4th courts in NYC)

yankeekd25
05-29-2008, 08:59 AM
I think I can prolly dunk on a 8.5-9 foot hoop. I think the standard NBA hoop is 10 feet right?

Guido
05-29-2008, 09:31 AM
I'm 5'9 and over 200lbs, so nope. I can at least come within an inch of touching the rim, though, which is pretty good for my size.

MillerTime1485
05-29-2008, 09:40 AM
Yeah as of right now I'm 5'11 and 205lbs and I can touch the rim barely.. so no. What pisses me off is that I know a guy who's like 5'9 and jumps like a frog its insane.

smokinHawk
05-29-2008, 10:23 AM
5'8" and have a couple of times
white guys do have ups!

Bruteman
05-29-2008, 11:41 AM
I don't know anymore. it's been forever since I stepped on the court. I sort of could in college. Sort of, as in you could've called it a weak dunk, or really aggressive layup, lol.

ZenMonkey
05-29-2008, 11:48 AM
im 5'10 and 220.. cant do it, but am sure gonna start working on it... contest idea?

Tofer
05-29-2008, 11:54 AM
I can dunk pretty easily, even from a stand still. Not that impressive at my height, but hey, you asked.

Phenom
05-29-2008, 12:40 PM
6'1'', 200...I can jump high enough I just need to work on palming the ball better.

Guido
05-29-2008, 04:05 PM
5'8" and have a couple of times
white guys do have ups!Let's see a vid.

Not saying you couldn't, but if you can then I'd like to see it because it would be impressive.

ryuage
05-29-2008, 05:45 PM
Haven't tried in awhile, but usually when I hover about 180 I dunk fine... im sure I can dunk now with a miniature size bball.

im 5'11

nhlfan
05-29-2008, 05:49 PM
no, I can't. I wouldn't mind working up to it though.

cphafner
05-29-2008, 06:06 PM
I dunked on one of the hoops at a local park. Honestly though, it was probably a few inches below 10 feet. I can easily get above the rim @ 5' 11, but can't dunk on a lefit hoop. Measued my hops about 4 years ago at something around 37 inches. No clue what is is now, haven't played hoops in over a year.

Keith
05-29-2008, 06:22 PM
I used to be heavily into basketball my whole life but jumping was the only thing I couldn't do. I can get within a couple of inches of the rim @ 5'9".

smokinHawk
05-29-2008, 07:11 PM
Let's see a vid.

Not saying you couldn't, but if you can then I'd like to see it because it would be impressive.

i need to but my camrea isnt working right now and dont know of any rims around this town .
i cant jump quite as high as my highest, but im not to far off, i can still grab the rim and stuff, i also used to be able to clear fences or jump on platforms my shoulder height, people jused to say i jumped like a deer or jack rabit back then.
if i wasnt so lazy latley id get a video, but for know everyone can say im all talk.:boring:

Bassist-Dude
05-29-2008, 08:39 PM
Well, I can't dunk yet, but I only started training seriously around the start of August last year.
175-177lbs at 6' 1/2" and I touched a ten foot rim for the first time ever yesterday. On my best jump, I got the top of my palm (where the fingers attach) to bump up against the underside, so I think I was about 3 and a half to 4 inches over the rim. On my only, and best, standing jump I managed to nick one of the things that the netting attaches to.
It felt great to finally see some results after all my work, totally pumped to keep working hard.

Twirl
05-30-2008, 08:48 AM
of course, but being 6'5'' helps a bit

strongkid963
05-30-2008, 04:52 PM
i can at 260lbs lil over 6'3

J Mac0123
05-30-2008, 05:59 PM
hell im only 5' 10" and i can jump over the whole hoop. My neices 4' hoop that is.. Real ones not so much :confused:

ProLogic
05-31-2008, 12:57 AM
I'm almost 6'.. I haven't tried touching the rim, I'm pretty sure I can get close.

BigRic
05-31-2008, 11:06 AM
I can dunk every now and then, for me it's an issue of ball control rather than hops. I can touch 10'9" standing vertical.

emjlr3
05-31-2008, 04:07 PM
I dunked on one of the hoops at a local park. Honestly though, it was probably a few inches below 10 feet. I can easily get above the rim @ 5' 11, but can't dunk on a lefit hoop. Measued my hops about 4 years ago at something around 37 inches. No clue what is is now, haven't played hoops in over a year.

you realize that is an ass load right? all star college athletes are lucky if they can jump that high

I am 6'1/2", I have no idea what my vert is right now, but back in hs when I was still serious into sports, at the Maryland football combine I was tested at like 29" (@ abut 6') and could dunk if I got a really good jump - so maybe one out of every 3 or 4 trys)

considering i can stand on my tip toes and touch a little over 8 feet, your prolly just under that:

now add 37" to that....you could almost dunk on an 11 foot rim(where 11'x12" = 132" and 8'x12" + 37" = 133"), I always figure being able to get 6" above the rim enabled you to dunk, or there abouts

btw, I play basketball once or twice a week with some guys at the gym, and can get a half decent dunk in after I am well warmed up (on occasion), though I am only about 185 right now - if i were back at 205 i doubt it

smokinHawk
05-31-2008, 07:28 PM
i dont think 38 is to uncommon of a verticle. rare, but not to rare.
my highest was about 38", with my reach (stretched) at 86" or 7'2" and getting about 4" over a 10 foot rim.
at the arnold classic where they had the jump measurement i had a standing jump at 34" or 36" (cant remember exactly but one of those)
now a 40" verticle or over is extremely rare.

emjlr3
06-10-2008, 07:04 AM
if you can find me another person with a 38" vertical id **** myself

in the entire dback lineup at the Maryland combine (about 150 or so of the top prospects from around the Maryland area) I think maybe 2 or 3 had that kind of vertical

seriously dude, those are some mad ups - I think professional basketball players would be quite happy with a vertical around there

Guido
06-10-2008, 07:30 AM
True. According to the most recent NFL combine stats, a 38" vertical would have been one of the 3-4 highest by anyone in the combine. A 38" vert would put you among the elite wide receivers or CB's in D1 or the NFL.

I did the jump test at the Arnold Classic, too, and mine was 30" which was one of the higher one's of the people there. Some guy even came up to me after I did it and asked if I was a college football player or gymnast.

ryuage
06-10-2008, 09:30 AM
so white men can jump?

NickW
06-10-2008, 09:42 AM
When I was 320 I could take one step and dunk, now that I am 360 I can barely get rim, lol

smokinHawk
06-10-2008, 10:20 AM
True. According to the most recent NFL combine stats, a 38" vertical would have been one of the 3-4 highest by anyone in the combine. A 38" vert would put you among the elite wide receivers or CB's in D1 or the NFL.

I did the jump test at the Arnold Classic, too, and mine was 30" which was one of the higher one's of the people there. Some guy even came up to me after I did it and asked if I was a college football player or gymnast.

at the arnold they played it off cause i only weighed 170lbs, a taller guy jumped 2 " less, but they were more impressed cause he weighed 200lbs:confused:
my vertical has never decreased or increased due to weight changes on me.

smokinHawk
06-10-2008, 10:21 AM
When I was 320 I could take one step and dunk, now that I am 360 I can barely get rim, lol

for the tank you are i would like to see that, id imagine the rim would comedown easily if you pulled on it ever so slightly.

ThomasG
06-10-2008, 11:12 AM
ummm I can touch the rim!

lilmase1153
06-13-2008, 12:27 PM
you realize that is an ass load right? all star college athletes are lucky if they can jump that high




According to the most recent NFL combine stats, a 38" vertical would have been one of the 3-4 highest by anyone in the combine. A 38" vert would put you among the elite wide receivers or CB's in D1 or the NFL.


You two are talking about a standing vertical which has nothing to do with dunking a basketball in a game, unless your trying to dunk using no steps at all... With a running start and the proper form one can jump substantially higher then someone just jumping straight up and down..

i'm gonna try and look for a vid I used to have but for my size back in my high school days I could dip a 9' relatively easy and touch 10', I didnt do nothing crazy but then again im a two foot jumper.. Get me on a 8' and im like VC in his hay day

I also have a lot of friends who are under 6' who can jump out of the gym nothing measured but i'm talking taking off from the 3rd block dippin on people like nothing, most of them play for fun now but a couple played college ball and what not.. Not all the best athletes play in college, just hit up your local hot spot where people ball and you will see some freaks of nature who just play to play.. There is a dude in cali who never played high school or college and has over 50" vert, whether standing or not dude is 5'10" and the videos he takes are insane, im talking head over the rim nastiness..

EDIT:
Its like before I got into weight lifting seriously I thought 315 was a lot of weight for for any lift, but once I got into and went to the places and gyms where people were serious lifters all of sudden im seeing guys who were 165 hittin 315. If I would have read on the net that some guy was benching 315 at under 200lbs I would have thought it was BS..

It all depends on what circles your in

emjlr3
06-13-2008, 12:54 PM
i hadn't thought about that - or rather- it slipped my mind - my tested vert of 29" was standing, with which I can barely touch the rim - give me a start from the 3 point line and I can dunk - but still - I think when he mentined a 38" vert, he was refering to a vert - which is pretty damned beast

lilmase1153
06-13-2008, 01:06 PM
i hadn't thought about that - or rather- it slipped my mind - my tested vert of 29" was standing, with which I can barely touch the rim - give me a start from the 3 point line and I can dunk - but still - I think when he mentined a 38" vert, he was refering to a vert - which is pretty damned beast

Oh for sure, anything over 35" is very respectable.. But again vertical in different circles means different things.. Its like a bodybuilder taking pics or standing on stage in his "relaxed" state. Well we all know relaxed just means flexed without the appearance of looking like your flexing. So I take vert as maximum vertical distance you travel, unless otherwise stated ie one step, two step or Standing Vert..

I know I have seen tests where they allow one step and still call it a standing vertical.. Technically its not but different people call it different things..


BTW- your standing vert is very good, im sure with a running start your mid 30s easy..

ProLogic
06-13-2008, 02:17 PM
I can touch an 8 foot roof with out jumping..?

BG5150
06-13-2008, 02:20 PM
I can touch an 8 foot roof with out jumping..?
Do you mean ceiling? Those are the things on top of rooms, usually. A roof is what covers a building.

On my toes slightly I can touch an eight foot ceiling.

lilmase1153
06-13-2008, 02:32 PM
Do you guys have to brag ;)

Tumbler
06-13-2008, 05:21 PM
I can grab the rim with my fingertips on a normal 10 ft. hoop. Sometimes when we play at my friends house we lower it down to 9 ft. I can dunk the **** out of a 9 foot hoop haha.

teenathlete3030
06-16-2008, 11:10 AM
I can dunk two handed off one leg, but need to be really warmed up and full of adrenaline (like people watching). Two footed I can hang with both hands, and vertical I can get maybe an inch or two over rim. I figure my one foot vert's maybe 38". I can jump over a 3'3" bar one-legged off three steps while barely bending knees to get feet over. I figure I can get higher with full run up.

Szust
06-18-2008, 12:19 AM
I can jump, grab the net, and pull the basket down. Does that count?

Reko
06-18-2008, 06:04 AM
I can get a ladder, get up to the rim, grab on, and kick the ladder away, what's my vertical you think?

kevowamo
06-18-2008, 09:31 AM
i have black guy hops. ive actually dunked on a guy before two handed...one of the most satisfying feelings ive ever had in sports. two other courts of games stopped playing when it happened. also dunked in a pick-up game with a bunch of the UK bball players while i was in school there

chinaz
06-18-2008, 07:52 PM
i could if someone was holding me up.

RinkerxX
06-26-2008, 02:15 PM
at 5'9 in school i was around 175 and could dunk.

Now im about 5'11 and 205 and I can barely touch rim.

Blitzforce
06-26-2008, 09:06 PM
I hope to be dunking later this year as a short armed 5'8.5" dude :)
My standing reach is 7'4" in shoes, stretching up as hard as I can, so I need to jump 32 inches to just touch rim....
My goal is a 44 inch standing VJ!

the key is to increase you full oly squat relative to your body weight and keep practising jumping at least once a week.
I have a vertical jump formula that is spot on for 5'9" guys - it works with Kelly Baggett's squat and VJ numbers, as it does with Alan Barch Jr aka Squat DR - the guy with the standing VJ in the high 40s, like 47-49. And a few other guys around 5'9"

but the key numbers for 5'9" guys

2xBW full oly squat = 33.5 inch
2.5xBW = 42 inch
3xBW = 49 inch

most people just aren't strong enough to jump as high as they want...

this quote from Kelly Baggett's VJ Faq
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpfaq.html


Before I tell you how much strength you need do this so I can make a point: Go in the gym and grab 2 fifteen pound dumbells and lie on a bench and bench press them 100 times. Now stand up and do 100 half squats with your bodyweight. Which is harder? Probably the squats right? So that means it takes more strength to do a half squat with your bodyweight than it does to lie on your back and press 15 pounds.

Now realize a shotput also weighs about 15 pounds. What is a shotput? Basically a press where you throw the weight. What is a vertical jump? Basically a 1/2 squat where you "throw" your body into the air. The 15 pounds sounds really light until you think about throwing the weight. Now let's figure out how much strength it takes to be a good shotputter: Well, the routines of top shotputters contain a fair mix of both explosive and strength oriented training but on the strength end you won't find any that don't bench press over 400 pounds. The large majority of them will bench press over 500 pounds. So, through real world observation it has been established that there is no such thing as a top shotputter who bench presses less than 400 pounds. We've also established that squatting and "throwing" your bodyweight into the air requires more strength relatively than does throwing a 15 pound shotput. So, if a shotputter benches a minimum of 400 pounds what does that tell you about how strong our legs should be for jumping? It tells me they need to be quite strong. Just as you will never see a good shotputter who can't bench press 400 pounds you will never see a good vertical jumper who isn't strong in the legs as well. In fact I have a $500 bounty for the first person who can show me someone with a legit 35 inch vertical jump who can't squat 1.5 BW within a week of learning the movement. I could probably crank that up to 2 x BW and I doubt I would ever lose.

Now, does that mean that just because someone can bench press 700 pounds that they will be able to throw the shotput a mile? Or does that mean that just becuase so and so has a 500 pound squat they'll be able to jump out of the gym? No. There is technique and movement efficiency involved in both shotputting and jumping. What it does tell me though is if you're weaker than a kitten you're completely wasting your time spending all your time with plyometric work until you've built a base of strength. Once you have your base of strength you'll get the best results in Vertical jump practicing jumping related tasks and training explosively.

that's the thing, the human body is so heavy you need a ton of strength to throw it far. And it's not like we're throwing it up that high either, 50 inches is just a touch over 4 feet. Nothing like the distances a shotput gets thrown for, and the guys who throw it far and are all damn strong! But also explosive off course, but speed plays a larger role in throwing things due to the lighter weight of the object

Guess how much that guy with the 47-49 inch VJ full squats?
600+lbs at 210lb bodyweight.....

Sidior
06-26-2008, 09:10 PM
I could never dunk, and the rim only seems to be getting further away :(

smokinHawk
06-27-2008, 06:41 AM
I hope to be dunking later this year as a short armed 5'8.5" dude :)
My standing reach is 7'4" in shoes, stretching up as hard as I can, so I need to jump 32 inches to just touch rim....
My goal is a 44 inch standing VJ!

the key is to increase you full oly squat relative to your body weight and keep practising jumping at least once a week.
I have a vertical jump formula that is spot on for 5'9" guys - it works with Kelly Baggett's squat and VJ numbers, as it does with Alan Barch Jr aka Squat DR - the guy with the standing VJ in the high 40s, like 47-49. And a few other guys around 5'9"

but the key numbers for 5'9" guys

2xBW full oly squat = 33.5 inch
2.5xBW = 42 inch
3xBW = 49 inch

most people just aren't strong enough to jump as high as they want...

this quote from Kelly Baggett's VJ Faq
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpfaq.html



that's the thing, the human body is so heavy you need a ton of strength to throw it far. And it's not like we're throwing it up that high either, 50 inches is just a touch over 4 feet. Nothing like the distances a shotput gets thrown for, and the guys who throw it far and are all damn strong! But also explosive off course, but speed plays a larger role in throwing things due to the lighter weight of the object

Guess how much that guy with the 47-49 inch VJ full squats?
600+lbs at 210lb bodyweight.....

i weigh 170lbs about now, squated 402 last saturday, so that puts me at a 2.4 ratio so by baggats math i should have probably about a 40" verticle, and that is not the case, also when i squatted less then 2X my body weight, say 315 at 165lbs bw 1.9x bw, i could jump just as i can now.
also my jump does not increase or decrease if my weight does as it will typically fluquate 10lbs and also i am jumping as high as i was when i was 145lbs now that i am at 170-173lbs

motoko013
06-27-2008, 06:45 AM
I hope to be dunking later this year as a short armed 5'8.5" dude :)
My standing reach is 7'4" in shoes, stretching up as hard as I can, so I need to jump 32 inches to just touch rim....
My goal is a 44 inch standing VJ!

the key is to increase you full oly squat relative to your body weight and keep practising jumping at least once a week.
I have a vertical jump formula that is spot on for 5'9" guys - it works with Kelly Baggett's squat and VJ numbers, as it does with Alan Barch Jr aka Squat DR - the guy with the standing VJ in the high 40s, like 47-49. And a few other guys around 5'9"

but the key numbers for 5'9" guys

2xBW full oly squat = 33.5 inch
2.5xBW = 42 inch
3xBW = 49 inch

most people just aren't strong enough to jump as high as they want...

this quote from Kelly Baggett's VJ Faq
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpfaq.html



that's the thing, the human body is so heavy you need a ton of strength to throw it far. And it's not like we're throwing it up that high either, 50 inches is just a touch over 4 feet. Nothing like the distances a shotput gets thrown for, and the guys who throw it far and are all damn strong! But also explosive off course, but speed plays a larger role in throwing things due to the lighter weight of the object

Guess how much that guy with the 47-49 inch VJ full squats?
600+lbs at 210lb bodyweight.....

so if i weigh in at 185 and can squat 400 i should have a legit 33.5 vert? i do think strength plays a part in vertical jumps, but it is not the only factor. i think in his book vertical jump bible he says how the speed that you can apply the strength is really what matters.

for the original question. i can't even touch a 10' rim at 5'9 but i can dunk on 8' lol. i'm working on the vert and will hopefully be able to dunk 9.5' eventually

razorcut
06-27-2008, 03:39 PM
I could as a HS senior & college frosh. Was still 6'1 @ the time. Granted it wasn't anything Jordanesque, but still a dunk nonetheless. Two ACL reconstructions & a few years later I'm nowhere near even sniffing a dunk.

Blitzforce
06-27-2008, 05:42 PM
i weigh 170lbs about now, squated 402 last saturday, so that puts me at a 2.4 ratio so by baggats math i should have probably about a 40" verticle, and that is not the case, also when i squatted less then 2X my body weight, say 315 at 165lbs bw 1.9x bw, i could jump just as i can now.
also my jump does not increase or decrease if my weight does as it will typically fluquate 10lbs and also i am jumping as high as i was when i was 145lbs now that i am at 170-173lbs

Is your squat a high bar, beltless, shoulder width stance, ass to the floor squat? Full olympic squat basicly :)

If not then your not as strong as you thought.

And if it is, then you either lack one of more of the following

1) movement effeciency in the jump
2) RFD
3) reactivity to a lesser extent - not that important in a standing jump

you need to be doing at least 20-40 max effort jumps a week to qualify as having good movement effeciency in the jump. Nobody ever got good at anything without a lot of quality max effort practise.

every person I know around 5'9" who did a lot of jumping and who could full oly squat 2.5xBW had a vertical jump over 40 inches

Blitzforce
06-27-2008, 05:47 PM
so if i weigh in at 185 and can squat 400 i should have a legit 33.5 vert? i do think strength plays a part in vertical jumps, but it is not the only factor. i think in his book vertical jump bible he says how the speed that you can apply the strength is really what matters.

for the original question. i can't even touch a 10' rim at 5'9 but i can dunk on 8' lol. i'm working on the vert and will hopefully be able to dunk 9.5' eventually

see my above post - you need strength as well as movement effeciency and RFD.
But my VJ formula takes out the guess work, if the strength is there, but not the jump, then you know what you need to work on.

400lb beltless full oly squat at 185lbs, assuming the weight is what you have with clothing and shoes to jump in = 36 inch vertical jump....

I'm approaching those numbers myself. I will confirm them soon, as I'm a good jumper with good RFD, I just need to regain my strength and get leaner :)

Blitzforce
06-28-2008, 03:43 AM
got my fingers over a 10 foot outdoor court rim today - off a short, slowish run, that's a 33 inch jump with my 7'4" reach at 5'8.5" :)
My reach is fully stretched out as hard as I can as well. Felt about 75% energy level wise, heavy training week, so this is promising!
Standing VJ about 30 inches today, wrist 2.5-3 inches above the bottom of a 9 foot backboard

currently full oly squat 275x8 at 190lbs in winter clothing/shoes. 340lbs max on rep calculator

I'm currently leaning up and I have full squatted at least 385lbs in the past, so if I get back there and above look out :ninja:

mike42506
06-29-2008, 01:19 AM
5'8" and have a couple of times
white guys do have ups!

:omg: That's impressive.
I'm 5'8 also and inches away from even touching rim.

smokinHawk
06-30-2008, 06:25 AM
Is your squat a high bar, beltless, shoulder width stance, ass to the floor squat? Full olympic squat basicly :)

If not then your not as strong as you thought.

And if it is, then you either lack one of more of the following

1) movement effeciency in the jump
2) RFD
3) reactivity to a lesser extent - not that important in a standing jump

you need to be doing at least 20-40 max effort jumps a week to qualify as having good movement effeciency in the jump. Nobody ever got good at anything without a lot of quality max effort practise.

every person I know around 5'9" who did a lot of jumping and who could full oly squat 2.5xBW had a vertical jump over 40 inches

squat was using wraps and a belt but was atf.
i think you missed the point as i was showing that when i could only squat 315, or even 225 and now 402, that my vertical never really increased or decreased due to squating more weight.
one thing i have noticed for people that could jump high their vertical increased when they were 14-16, and after that it didnt increase much if any

and how many people that are 5'9" that have over a 40" vertical?

Reko
06-30-2008, 09:26 AM
Why is ATF oly squat used in this? Do jumpers bottom out in the a full squat before they jump?

fpr
06-30-2008, 01:25 PM
I'm 5'10, 225 lbs, I can run and jump and grab a hold of the rim, I haven't been able to pull off a smooth dunk though. Standing still and jumping I can touch the rim...

So does this mean if I drop 30 pounds I'll be able to dunk easily? It's funny, I've never really equated losing weight with jumping higher. It does make sense though.

berfles
06-30-2008, 02:55 PM
Once I get in shape for basketball (that is, play it for a few weeks now that it's summer) I can get up to my mid forearm on the rim. I can easily hang from the rim and dunk tennis balls and such, but not a basketball. I do remember out-rebounding our center, who was over 6' in grade school. If I wanted to I'm sure I could dunk by the end of the summer.

Blitzforce
06-30-2008, 04:33 PM
squat was using wraps and a belt but was atf.
i think you missed the point as i was showing that when i could only squat 315, or even 225 and now 402, that my vertical never really increased or decreased due to squating more weight.
one thing i have noticed for people that could jump high their vertical increased when they were 14-16, and after that it didnt increase much if any

and how many people that are 5'9" that have over a 40" vertical?


Kelly Baggett has my VJ formula on his website - run your numbers through them.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpcalculator.html

Didn't your bodyweight go up as you got stronger?


If someone has been squatting long enough so his numbers are stable, and has decent neural effeciency and does a lot of jumping, the formula will be spot on, especially if you are around 5'9". If your shorter you'll need more strength and taller like over 6'1" then less strength due to longer levers.

The forumla works on the premise that to powersnatch a certain weight with a high catch you need a certain level of strength. Weak people don't powersnatch their bodyweight with no dip to catch it
If you can throw a weight around your bodyweight, 40 inches into the air, you certainly have the potential to jump that high. That's all jumping is, throwing your bodyweight up with your legs.

Kelly Baggett has a 42 inch VJ at 5'9" 160lbs 400lb squat - his numbers line up perfectly with my formula :) 2.5xBW full oly squat = 42 inch VJ....

Alan Barch JR aka Squat Dr has the biggest standing legit VJ I know off, 5'9" 7'5" standing reach, can touch the top of the square on a BBall backboard standing, whic is around 11'6" - do the sums! 600+lb full oly squat at 210lb bodyweight. 3xBodyweight 47-49 inch standing VJ, with a run he can get his head to rim and higher. He can powerclean 384lbs, front squat 2.5xBW and power squats over 700lbs raw...

Pics are back when he was jumping 44 inches standing
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj/Photos/5feet9_44inch_StandingJump.JPG

off a run
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj/Photos/5feet9_47+inch_RunningJump.JPG

and more recently - slightly injured, groin, from track meet - he's part of Flying101 dunk team now
http://www.flying101.org/ac_barch.html

zizMVDaiBhU


let me post some select quiotes from Alan....

seanjos, to answer your question i do train five days per week, sometimes a tempo run on sat. depending on what time of year it is. as for the vert, the biggest helper for me was the box squat. it took my vert and brought it to the next level. three years ago i measured 38.5, the next year 40.5 and now my 44 which was acutally last summer. it also added about 6 honest inches to my friends vert who trained with me last summer in a three month time period. the wide stance on the box squat really gets the hips involved.

first off my squat and vert always went hand in hand. my workouts are a combo of cf, elitetrack workouts, westside barbell, a bunch of other sites and sources and my own ideas. check these out and if you want a good squat check out westside barbell.
as for box height it varies. parallel for me is about 16 inches, but i got the best results it seemed, as far as vert improvment, when i used an 18" box. the weight i was able to use was actually more than my squat.
my friend started the summer with a three quarter squat with about 350 at a bw of 190. he did what i did and he squatted 495 to close out the summer, with a full squat. as to what helped my friend acheive the increase, it was probably both the box squat and the squat as we used them in short three week cycles. we also used the dynamic box squat, later on in the week in the offseason with about 50% of our maxes, concentrating on bar speed.
as for my squat and how i got it. the first time i stepped under a squat rack i was able to do 315 (probably a three quarter squat looking back at best) but i was also a skinny 17 year old. i train by myself, always have except for the three months in the summer, and i use everything for motivation and i go balls to the wall. also, i always worked on my weakest link, whatever it was, whether it was hamstrings, butt, back, whatever, and made it my strong points. think about it, if every part of your body can squat 500 lbs but your hamstrings can only handle 400 lbs. than you need to work on your hamstrings.
my core is strong from squatting or is it my squat is strong from doing core work. either way i have always pushed my strength levels for my core like i did any other bodypart. all guys go crazy over the benchpress, but what if they put the same effort into their core training, oly lifts, etc.
i dont deadlift often, i usually do stiff legged deadlifts. for these i vary either using a snatch grip for more posterior chain involvement of just regular grip(using a hook grip of course). the weights i use for sld get over 450 lbs for reps. as for a regular deadlift i really dont know.
my squat was just over 400 lbs not too long ago and my vert not much over 30, so you can make huge gains. hardwork, research, clean diet, and listening to your body will all help you get what you are looking for. but my biggets gains probably came from the oly lifts as i never did them before. dont neglect these lifts as the explosivness in these lifts is just what you are looking for in a vert jump. oh yeah and dont forget the track work !!!!
hope this answers your questions and helps you obtain your goals.




I also know off another 5'9" 175lb guy who fullsquats 440lbs has a 42 inch vertical and a 10.5FAT 100m sprint to his credit

Blitzforce
06-30-2008, 04:36 PM
Why is ATF oly squat used in this? Do jumpers bottom out in the a full squat before they jump?

it just represents full range leg and hip strength.

read my formula explanation above - most people will power snatch with a high catch around 43% of a full oly squat. I have experience with oly lifts and full squats and their correlation with the explosive strength deficit with throwing a barbell upwards, that's why

Blitzforce
06-30-2008, 04:37 PM
I'm 5'10, 225 lbs, I can run and jump and grab a hold of the rim, I haven't been able to pull off a smooth dunk though. Standing still and jumping I can touch the rim...

So does this mean if I drop 30 pounds I'll be able to dunk easily? It's funny, I've never really equated losing weight with jumping higher. It does make sense though.


about 4-5lbs of fat dropped will gain you an inch. As long as you maintain your strength

Blitzforce
06-30-2008, 04:40 PM
I came across this Volleyballer's stats and posts
His numbers line with my VJ formula as well :evillaugh:



Age: 17
Years playing: 2

Height: 5' 11 3/4"
Weight: 146 lbs
Standing Reach: 7' 8 1/2"
Touch: 10'10"
Level of Play: high school
Squat: 305 lbs
Sumo Deadlift: 315 lbs



Well, before i ever lifted a weight or began to play volleyball i could touch 10' @ 5' 11". So i had pretty average vertical i guess, so i don't think that i'm exactly a "natural jumper". But my vertical has exploded ever since i started training westside barbell style(power lifting). I used to hate my weight, but then i found out it poses an advantage when i raised my strength to weight ratio. So my suggestions are training westside barbell style, or i have an ascending-descending power training. If anyone wants a copy of the ascending-descending power training routine, or info on the WSB routines, just PM me. Some people argue that you cannot build explosiveness in the weight room, but you cannot argue with results. I've seen a power lifter weigh a little over 300 pounds, about 5'10', with an 800+lb squat that could dunk a b-ball with two hands without taking an approach. The guy had about a 42" vertical, and all the training he did was in the weightroom. Watching that huge guy dunk made me a believer no doubt. I'll start a 7 week long training cycle next monday, and will post a log for it after every workout(it should be 9 weeks long, but i'm going on vacation for two weeks, and probably won't have anywhere to train).


--

then a while later after not training for 1.5 months, he started that 7 week training cycle I think

---


well here's my results from training:

before:..............after:
weight: 146........weight: 157
touch: 10' 9.5".....touch: 11' 0.5"
squat: 305.........squat: 370(broke the school record with that one, but they wouldn't let me put my name up because i'm not in football...grrrr)
Sumo deadlift: 310...... deadlift: don't really know for sure because i haven't maxed out on this on yet, but i hit a set of 5 with 365 a month ago, so it should be in the low 400's
bench: 195.........bench:235

My weight at one point was 162, but i put on a little fat so i had to burn that off to get to my present weight

smokinHawk
07-01-2008, 07:29 AM
Kelly Baggett has my VJ formula on his website - run your numbers through them.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpcalculator.html

Didn't your bodyweight go up as you got stronger?


it seems to be close for my present values at 175 with a 400squat says 38", now its probably at 36" now. but i haven't been doing to much jumping lately.
but when i reached my peak at 38" i weighed about 150, but could only full squat around 250 probably (though i quarter squatted 405) were the formula said i should be only able to jump 28" it was off about 10 "

Blitzforce
07-01-2008, 04:16 PM
it seems to be close for my present values at 175 with a 400squat says 38", now its probably at 36" now. but i haven't been doing to much jumping lately.
but when i reached my peak at 38" i weighed about 150, but could only full squat around 250 probably (though i quarter squatted 405) were the formula said i should be only able to jump 28" it was off about 10 "

but were you good at squatting back when you were 150?
Your probably had some natural strength, like some people who jump high naturally, but when they start squatting they easily squat over 2xBW within a month or two

I know someone who used to play Semi-pro BBall in Europe, and one his black team mates who jumps high naturally was able to squat 2xBW after 2 weeks of starting weights :)

Davor
07-02-2008, 04:03 AM
I weighed like 150, played basketball alot and could touch rim. At 5'8. At that time I had never squatted, and when I started I couldnt even do 145 lbs. I think that natural mechanics beneficial for jumping aren't taken in to account with the formula.

Now I'm around 185 lbs. and my fatass will break something if I try to jump that high :)

Blitzforce
07-02-2008, 04:20 AM
I weighed like 150, played basketball alot and could touch rim. At 5'8. At that time I had never squatted, and when I started I couldnt even do 145 lbs. I think that natural mechanics beneficial for jumping aren't taken in to account with the formula.

Now I'm around 185 lbs. and my fatass will break something if I try to jump that high :)

because you had poor neural efficiency like all novice lifters, but if after a few months of squatting hard and regularly, you were still at 145lbs, then that's something else....which I doubt. And there is skill in squatting too, which needs to be learned, so can apply the full force you are capable of

just like how someone gains inches fast when they start jumping for the first time, just improving movement efficiency. Or a strong person starting the oly lifts, they have the potential to lift more than a weaker lifter, but won't until they learn the movement.

this formula assumes, both good jumping skills and good neural efficiency in squatting

There are only 2 main components in jumping ability - movement efficiency and horsepower. Once you max out the first you will not jump higher no matter what you do until you get stronger. Some people are just naturally stronger which allows them to jump high naturally, or they develop the strength from high volumes of jumping, which can add hypertrophy - I've experienced myself, my legs and calves blow up from jumping :)

anyway the formula is for vertical jumping - ie a standing jump, which is highly dependant on relative strength of the legs and hips. The human body ain't light, and you need a lot of horsepower to throw it up.

smokinHawk
07-02-2008, 07:10 AM
but were you good at squatting back when you were 150?
Your probably had some natural strength, like some people who jump high naturally, but when they start squatting they easily squat over 2xBW within a month or two

I know someone who used to play Semi-pro BBall in Europe, and one his black team mates who jumps high naturally was able to squat 2xBW after 2 weeks of starting weights :)

it actually took me a LONG time to squat 2X body weight, and didnt do it till last year, it took me allot of hard work, i think it was four years of squatting till i hit 340 at 170lbs
so no i wasnt good at squatting when i was 145-160lbs, probably could only do 250-275

questoin for you how old are you and how high is your verticle?
what gains have you seen.

im old and have tried allot of methods and eventually blew out my knees trying so hard, but nothing improved more then a inch or so since i was 16 years old, when i reached my peak at 17 when my knees started to go. from 15-16 is when i saw most of my improvement by learning to jump

OsaBoy5
07-02-2008, 09:40 AM
6'5 200 pounds, 42 inch vertical, yes i can dunk a basketball, even in combat boots in iraq :)

smokinHawk
07-02-2008, 10:25 AM
6'5 200 pounds, 42 inch vertical, yes i can dunk a basketball, even in combat boots in iraq :)

can you raw squat 500lbs then? based on what the calculator says you should.

gamodye
07-02-2008, 02:10 PM
i dont think i can, no where near enough power in my legs... however i do have one of the best vertical jumps in my class at school... however the rest of my class are all non athletic couch potatoes...

Dan152
07-02-2008, 02:34 PM
im 6ft1 and about 175 i can dunk ez. whcihc is funny considereing i can only squat like 180 lbs

Blitzforce
07-02-2008, 04:36 PM
it actually took me a LONG time to squat 2X body weight, and didnt do it till last year, it took me allot of hard work, i think it was four years of squatting till i hit 340 at 170lbs
so no i wasnt good at squatting when i was 145-160lbs, probably could only do 250-275

questoin for you how old are you and how high is your verticle?
what gains have you seen.

im old and have tried allot of methods and eventually blew out my knees trying so hard, but nothing improved more then a inch or so since i was 16 years old, when i reached my peak at 17 when my knees started to go. from 15-16 is when i saw most of my improvement by learning to jump


see my post up top of this page - Last weekend I hit a 30 inch vertical and 33 off a run, getting my fingers just over a 10 foot rim. I measured everything, rim is legit and my reach stretching up as hard as I can is 7'4". So I need to jump 32 inches to touch rim. I'm 5'8.5" around 190lbs clothed with shoes and approaching 40 years old :)

My natural VJ was tested at 28 inches when I was in highschool, 15 y.o at 155lbs, 3rd highest in the PE class. So I have some natural explosiveness, but nothing freaky. I've played BBall for most of my life, on and off, just streetball etc. I improved to a point just jumping and playing BBall, but soon I will surpass those efforts.

Watch my progress over the next year or so - goal is a 44-46 inch standing VJ, 2 inches higher off a step, and about 47-50 inches off the run :evillaugh:
All I'm doing is getting leaner, driving up my leg and hip strength and lots of max effort jumping once a week at the bball courts. I also only train once a week in the gym. Overall jump is up 2+ inches from a month ago, and my squat has come up the same amount ratio wise. Not bad for being on a calorie deficit, and my legs and hips are piling on some serious size!

The main thing is to allow enough recovery from strength work, then you can display your full jump ability.
I have a feeling you trained hard, but you never rested hard....

for a 46 inch VJ here is what I need - about 25lbs less for 44

525lb full oly squat at 190lbs bodyweight
495lbs at 180lbs
480lbs at 175lbs
455lbs at 165lbs
440lbs at 160lbs
425lbs at 155lbs

455lbs at 165 would be the easiest overall to get to for me, since I've squatted close to that before but the bodyweight might be hard for me to achieve with those strength levels - cause I'm gonna need a bit of muscle mass on my legs and hips to move that weight
I've still got quite a bit of fat to shift, so we will see.

175-180lbs would be the easiest to achieve bodyweight wise, just a few kg of fat to drop, but a 500lb squat would require me to rep 405x8, and the last time I had 405 on my shoulders, it was freaking hard just walking out with it, especially with the *****tty curved/bent bars at my gym! And it's even worse now that I'm lighter and leaner, I don't feel as stable core wise that's for sure.

But hey the body does adapt and get stronger over time so we will see. This is the first time in a while, I've been healthy, loose, with good mobility and smarter training wise.


----

for your knees, you might have soft tissue and tight trigger point filled fascia issues. I had jumpers knee real bad - foam rolling and self myofascial work with tennis balls etc fixed up up and then some. Helped my strength too!

quoting myself to help you out


something that need stressing - make sure your doing foam rolling and self myofascial tissue work with tennis/golf ball, or small balls ( yes even a mini BBall pumped tight works great) or other objects like the corner of a bench top...

On your off days to keep scar tissue and adhesion build up to a minimum and keep your fascia nice and loose so your body works properly and is in alignment.
It will greatly reduce damage from jumping and training, and keep jumpers knee at bay.... I speak from personal experience :)
And allow you to squat way deeper without your lower back tucking under in an oly full squat. Loosen up the glutes with a tennis ball against the wall until all painful trigger points are gone etc

Even shoulder pain too...

Start from the bottom of the feet and work up.

background info
http://laurensfitness.com/2008/03/06/fascia-part-1-an-important-piece-of-the-pain-puzzle/


articles
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=475832
www.strengthcoach.com/public/1303.cfm
http://laurensfitness.com/2008/02/24/tennis-ball-part-1-a-tool-you-never-knew-you-had/


vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8caF1Keg2XU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stEfs08PvIk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7QMW6Qebs



I had jumpers knee real bad, couldn't squat and land from a jump with pain in both knees

after a few sessions of foam rolling and tennis ball massage starting from the bottom of the feet and up, it got much better, the pain completely disappeared after the 3rd week - I only did it once a week initially, more often now, split to different muscle groups on each day. I did every muscle in my body

even though I'm still tight, with trigger points, although less painful now, my ankle and hip mobility improved dramatically. I feel loose and supple everywhere now, like a teenager pretty much :)

Jumps landings feel soft.
I can even squat deeper in an oly squat, without my butt tucking under. Use a narrow stance without any knee pain, even a front squat in regular flat sneakers, narrow stance rock bottom is easy to do, thanks to my better ankle mobility as a result of foam rolling out my painful calves

Helped fixed up my shoulder problems and impingement pain too. Pecs, upper traps and lats really tight from years of sitting in front of a PC. I was finally able to get my upper arms above parallel in a scapular wall slide this week. And finally did a behind the neck press with an oly bar pain free!!!

Tissue work should be compulsory for anyone who trains, because training causes scar tissue and adhesion buildup. Stretching is almost useless until the fascia has been loosened up by foam rolling/massage/tennis ball work etc

this is the order you should approach it


tissue work ( foam rolling, massage etc) --> mobility work --> stretching ---> corrective exercises

It is hard work, takes effort, is tiring and time consuming, but if you desire to save money - ART is not cheap, and want to push yourself hard like a Formula 1 car, you need to put in the maintenance work too...high performance engines are highly strung and go bang real quick...



the foam roller helps for the lower body, but if you read the articles, the tennis ball is even better for the upper body and bottom of the foot
Tennis ball against the wall is also awesome for the glutes and hips, TFL etc
All problems start from the foot, so start rolling out the foot arch with a tennis ball or golf ball, if the tennis ball isn't doing much. I also use a hard 21x3 inch cardboard roll, since the foam roller eventually doesn't do much when you get looser. A PVC pipe does the job too.

And I also use small Mini BBalls pumped up tight. I have one the size of a volleyball that works great on the VMO and adductor area. The small size works better there, foam rollers tend to get in the way. Applies enough pressure to bring tears to my eyes!

Anyway you will find trigger points all over your body. Once they go away, you will be so loose, it's not funny! And feel stronger too! The moderate weights at one stage started to feel scary heavy on my back, on squats. I think the CNS was shutting down the muscles because everything was so tight, scar tissue filled and jammed up. Now it feels good.

My upper body got a whole lot stronger and more stable after I started the tissue work. No surprise, because ART does the same kind of thing, but better, and people regain and improve strength.

also foam rolling will work the crap out of your core and upper body support muscles like the serratus anterior
I was so sore in spinal erectors and ribcage msucles at one stage I had to take pain killers to sleep...

smokinHawk
07-03-2008, 07:27 AM
dang and i thought i was old, you got ten years on me. ;0
those are pretty lofty goals.
one thing you will find out is how low your squat drops once you drop weight, i went into a big slump this year by going from 175 to 168, and didnt get out of the slump till i hit 173lbs. Squats are effected allot by body weight, more then any other lift.
11" to your vertical will be very hard especially at your age, though good luck
even those squats at those weights will be difficult, most power lifters peak in their 40's so you really dont have much time, unless you use AAS

the reason i blew my knees out was over training the jump defiantly, all i would do is jump jump jump, Id jump so hard i would feel the pain from take off, not the landing. Squats have rehabilitated them though, so there isnt much pain, and i wrap them with neoprene sleeves when squatting or playing basketball.
i would like to get a 42" vert so i could be able to dunk it well, instead of the brush one handed dunks i could occasionally do, it was more like a layup touching the rim, instead of throwing it down hard.

krboyd7
07-03-2008, 09:14 AM
I used to play ball in the uk and could back then just.Off 1 foot only.

Im only 5,11 too.

schmitty199
07-03-2008, 11:17 AM
Actually, I got the closest ive ever been last night. Threw it down on 9'6 or 9'8 not sure which one, and just got completely stuffed by the rim on ten foot. I was also in old crappy kswisses and legs were shot from the workout about and hour earlier. I definetly want to see if I can get 9'10 sometime fresh and in shocks. Probably will never end up throwing down ten though... My vertical was 32 inches at last test.

Blitzforce
07-03-2008, 04:34 PM
dang and i thought i was old, you got ten years on me. ;0
those are pretty lofty goals.
one thing you will find out is how low your squat drops once you drop weight, i went into a big slump this year by going from 175 to 168, and didnt get out of the slump till i hit 173lbs. Squats are effected allot by body weight, more then any other lift.
11" to your vertical will be very hard especially at your age, though good luck
even those squats at those weights will be difficult, most power lifters peak in their 40's so you really dont have much time, unless you use AAS

the reason i blew my knees out was over training the jump defiantly, all i would do is jump jump jump, Id jump so hard i would feel the pain from take off, not the landing. Squats have rehabilitated them though, so there isnt much pain, and i wrap them with neoprene sleeves when squatting or playing basketball.
i would like to get a 42" vert so i could be able to dunk it well, instead of the brush one handed dunks i could occasionally do, it was more like a layup touching the rim, instead of throwing it down hard.

In the past I probably wouldn't have such lofty goals, but I see it's possible with so many guys around my height who weren't born jumping high getting strong and piling on the inches.

Other than that I'm a pretty explosive guy and have always been one of the highest standing jumpers on most BBall courts I've played on. I just need more horsepower. When I got stronger I got fatter, heavier and usually pretty overtrained, so I finally figured all this out and hope to make good on it. Only now I finally have the knowledge of what is needed to jump higher.
There used to be a lot of second guessing, but not anymore. I'm seeing a pretty clear cause and effect.

I'm still pretty fast even now, and my test levels are still good, I pile on musclemass pretty easily, I have pretty big legs :)
Just don't recover as well though, so I have to be smart about things.

yeah my full oly squat was around the 330x8, 385+lb 1RM mark, and it has fallen off since then. Partly from dieting, muscle mass loss, and my jumpers knee. But it's coming back up strong now. A couple of months from now I should be back to around 385lbs, good for a 2xBW squat at least if I stay at my current bodyweight and a 34 inch VJ :thumbup:

I'll update my progress in this thread over time

SkillGuru
07-04-2008, 11:17 PM
You guys are focusing too much on the power aspect of the VJ and not taking into account that mechanics and pin pointing energy leaks plays a huge role in explosive movements. Understanding how you individually create power is the first step you need to take. Are you a leaper or a jumper? Leapers can be weak as a wet noodle and have the worst max squat results ever but fly through the air with ease because they naturally have a huge amount of reactive strength and fluid biomechanics. Because jumpers have to move through the entire power spectrum they have to work at it harder training and mechanics.

Jumpers have to:

1. Have a great deal of strength through, strength, power and reactive phases of the jump.

2. Jumpers use 2 feet too jump which means that they have to make up for a powerful off leg swing through with explosive lower back power. This means that the entire core must be very strong to ensure that the spine and pelvis "lock" during explosive jump movements.

3. The jumpers natural movement breaks brings him to almost a full stop, meaning that there must be two chains of kinetic energy (supporting phase 2 is why a jumper needs a great deal of base strength)

4. Because of the break in the first phase all physical facilities must be used efficiently to gain energy and speed during the acceleration (power) stage of phase 2. Which means that power must be made with his arms and shoulders during the upswing....

Look at the video of A.C. to see how all 4 of the above rules for a jumper come together.

There are about 35 more rules but I don't feel like typing them all.

You need to complete a full vertical jump and movement screens test to figure out what you are lacking and where you have leaks. I've had clients who were squatting and doing plyos day and night only to realize that because of their mechanics 40%+ of their vertical power output was coming from their lower back pull. Even had one guy who's arm swing was making 31% of his total power output. Raw strength is not going to make up for mechanical inefficiencies such as these.

If you are working the wrong area of your vertical jump is just going to cause the leak to get bigger. If you guys are training for basketball you need to figure out how to jump explosively and not just in "in space"

program51.com

schmitty199
07-05-2008, 01:48 PM
I've seen a power lifter weigh a little over 300 pounds, about 5'10', with an 800+lb squat that could dunk a b-ball with two hands without taking an approach. The guy had about a 42" vertical, and all the training he did was in the weightroom. Watching that huge guy dunk made me a believer no doubt.

Now this I have to see! A 5'10 300 pound guy with a 42 inch vertical? Find this extremely hard to believe.

Blitzforce
07-05-2008, 03:16 PM
BTW I have a training log on this site in the Journals section if anyone wants to follow my progress :)

Blitzforce
07-05-2008, 03:20 PM
.

Now this I have to see! A 5'10 300 pound guy with a 42 inch vertical? Find this extremely hard to believe.

The guy power squats over 800lbs, he has the strength to do it

I even read of a bodybuilder who can dunk

Jeff Poulin
http://www.kulturistika.sk/pages/galeria/muzi/jeff_poulin/jeff_poulin.htm

I have an old MuscleMag dating back to May 1996 that has an article on Jeff Poulin

this guy is 5'9" and weighs between 250-270lbs in off season depending on his BF% levels, and claims to be able to dunk it easy

At first I didn't believe it. He was 3 time all state judo champ when younger, so his CNS is probably good.
Now he has crazy sized legs. He is heavy and big, but his legs are d**n strong too!
Said he did a single with 775lbs as a teen. Best squat of 685lbs for 10 reps with belt and knee wraps. 405lbs for 32 reps. Once did 505lbs for 24 reps. Can do 50 reps with 225lbs anytime and 100 when training hard.... :o

Pic of him squatting has his top of thighs at parallel, but probbaly a fullsquat for him, as his stance is narrow and knees well forward
past the toes and bar high on traps.

so even at 250 he is squatting well over 3 times BW. Yeah he probbaly has a 38 inch or higher VJ even when bulked
the roids help too I suppose... ;)

TheSeeker
07-05-2008, 11:03 PM
.

Now this I have to see! A 5'10 300 pound guy with a 42 inch vertical? Find this extremely hard to believe.

Some of the skinny guys in westside can hold up to 90 pound dumbbells on each hand and still be able to jump 30 inches. Phil Harrington to be precise. I'm not sure and I can't remember.

smokinHawk
07-07-2008, 07:56 AM
In the past I probably wouldn't have such lofty goals, but I see it's possible with so many guys around my height who weren't born jumping high getting strong and piling on the inches.

Other than that I'm a pretty explosive guy and have always been one of the highest standing jumpers on most BBall courts I've played on. I just need more horsepower. When I got stronger I got fatter, heavier and usually pretty overtrained, so I finally figured all this out and hope to make good on it. Only now I finally have the knowledge of what is needed to jump higher.
There used to be a lot of second guessing, but not anymore. I'm seeing a pretty clear cause and effect.

I'm still pretty fast even now, and my test levels are still good, I pile on musclemass pretty easily, I have pretty big legs :)
Just don't recover as well though, so I have to be smart about things.

yeah my full oly squat was around the 330x8, 385+lb 1RM mark, and it has fallen off since then. Partly from dieting, muscle mass loss, and my jumpers knee. But it's coming back up strong now. A couple of months from now I should be back to around 385lbs, good for a 2xBW squat at least if I stay at my current bodyweight and a 34 inch VJ :thumbup:

I'll update my progress in this thread over time
im eager to see you make progress, ill have to keep an eye on your journal.
I want to start training my jump again, because i love jumping, i did some fence jumps last week, nothing much just cleared a 3' fence a few times Defiantly need to start running and jumping as my endurance needs to improve i get winded to easily like with squats as well.
im probably about 13-14% bodyfat, and would like to get to 10-11% i think the running and jumping will help

smokinHawk
07-07-2008, 07:57 AM
Some of the skinny guys in westside can hold up to 90 pound dumbbells on each hand and still be able to jump 30 inches. Phil Harrington to be precise. I'm not sure and I can't remember.

were you there? did you seem them do it personally? if not please remove yourself and stop talking like you have.
and there are no skinny guys at westside, as i have seen most of them (yes in person)

Blitzforce
07-13-2008, 12:33 AM
im eager to see you make progress, ill have to keep an eye on your journal.
I want to start training my jump again, because i love jumping, i did some fence jumps last week, nothing much just cleared a 3' fence a few times Defiantly need to start running and jumping as my endurance needs to improve i get winded to easily like with squats as well.
im probably about 13-14% bodyfat, and would like to get to 10-11% i think the running and jumping will help

My standing VJ has been following the numbers my calculator spits out like a mirror. And in turn my one step and running jumps feed off that.

recent gains are going well, surprises me sometimes. When you least expect to make gains, they pop up :) Usually after a bit deloading on the strength work.

Kelly Baggett has updated his VJ calculator page with a full calculator, so you can work it now without Excel
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpcalculator.html

Blitzforce
07-13-2008, 05:16 PM
nice post by Kelly Baggett

On squatting and VJ development

It's not that huge squat equals huge vert. It's not even that strong legs equals huge vert. If you take a group of 100 athletes and test their maximum isometric leg strength the correlation between maximum force and vertical jump isn't all that strong. However, there is a difference between vertical jump and vertical jump IMPROVEMENTS. There's a difference between strength and strength IMPROVEMENTS. And improving relative strength does improve vert.

To get into this a little more, unfortunate as it is, other than skill (movement efficiency), maximum strength is really the only quality that we can improve to any significant degree. It's possible to double or triple strength levels....you can train 10 years and if you're lucky you might increase your rate of force development, rate coding, neural processing speed etc. 5%. Truth be told you're more likely to improve those through altering your endocrine and neurotransmitter physiology then you are training. To see the impact of those, see how many 75 year old men you can find with any quickness or speed. The main difference between 25 and 75 is the same difference between slow athletes and explosive athletes. No amount of training can turn a 75 year old into a 25 year old. Think about that.

Strength ain't perfect but it's really all we have to work with. It's really more or less a shotgun approach. The muscle innervation during a jump is something like 30%. Only 30% of the fibers are firing to any significant degree. So by squatting you're hitting 100% of the fibers to improve the force generated by those 30%. Same goes for glute ham raises, deadlifts, calf raises etc. Keep in mind no exercise is 100% specific either. I have some yet to be published research that looked at 5 different movements (jump squat, depth jump, power clean, power snatch) and the most specific movment to the VJ as far as EMG, order of recruitment etc. is actually the hang power snatch. But anyway, a better method of increasing sports specific strength IMO would be implanting FT fibers in certain muscle groups of the body. No doubt someone will eventually do that, or come close, but until then we have to work with what we have.

So it's not pefect but it freakin works and works consistently. You can continue to increase the strenght of those 30% of available motor units and plug them into your existing movement efficiency, leverages, processing speed, neural drive, rate coding capabilities and continue getting higher and higher. Maybe if you're lucky you can also improve those factors to some degree as well. It turns out that strength work also works well for that. Thats how PAP or the stim method works.

After thinking about that it might be clear why size in FT motor units is quite under-rated as well.

Tu4290
07-15-2008, 01:49 PM
My standing VJ has been following the numbers my calculator spits out like a mirror. And in turn my one step and running jumps feed off that.

recent gains are going well, surprises me sometimes. When you least expect to make gains, they pop up :) Usually after a bit deloading on the strength work.

Kelly Baggett has updated his VJ calculator page with a full calculator, so you can work it now without Excel


I have a question..on kellys calculator it says "The calculator works best if you're between 5'6 and 6'0 tall. Shorter folks tend to require slightly heavier squats for a given VJ and taller folks tend to require slightly less". I am around 5'3.5 tall. And lets say a i want a 40 inch vert, im 18 and weight around 125-130 i can full squat thighs parallel to the floor about 275lbs with belt and wraps. So how much would i need to be able to squat in order to reach that kind of vertical jump? And is it possible for me to ever dunk? Thats just something i wanna do before i die :)

Blitzforce
07-15-2008, 04:03 PM
I have a question..on kellys calculator it says "The calculator works best if you're between 5'6 and 6'0 tall. Shorter folks tend to require slightly heavier squats for a given VJ and taller folks tend to require slightly less". I am around 5'3.5 tall. And lets say a i want a 40 inch vert, im 18 and weight around 125-130 i can full squat thighs parallel to the floor about 275lbs with belt and wraps. So how much would i need to be able to squat in order to reach that kind of vertical jump? And is it possible for me to ever dunk? Thats just something i wanna do before i die :)

how much can you squat without the belt and wraps? Even just a max set of 3-8 reps will give me an idea

and whats your standing reach in shoes to jump, if you reach up as hard as you can (when your warmed up) with one hand - measured from finger tip to floor?

How high do you jump now? standing and running
Are you a well practised jumper?

If your reach is at least 7'2" then you can dunk, but it will take much work :)
Ring is 10 feet. And you need 8 inches for your hand as well, and most people lose 3 inches with the ball in their hands, so a clean dunk needs a surplus of 11 inches over the rim....

For a 40 inch VJ with your current stats a 315lb squat is needed, but since your short, your range of motion and levers will allow you to squat more weight. And you short lever will require more strength to generate the speed needed to jump that high. So you might need around 335-350lbs to get there

Tu4290
07-15-2008, 08:54 PM
Well i can rep 225lbs for 3 sets of 5, with a backbelt and no wraps, I never squat without a belt...I dont know if that somehow affects my gains or not but i just dont like squatting without a belt. If I stand still and jump I can hit back board with the whole tip of my finger, like the finger nail part. But thats when im sore and not completely recovered, so I cant say that i really ever measured myself...no tape measurer or whatever. But i highly doubt that my reach is 7'2 i dont believe my arms is close to 3 feet long.

I'm not sure if im a well practiced jumper or not but I play basketball alot and jump alot....i usually play tuesday thursday and weekends usually 5 hours or more each day, and go to gym monday wednesday and friday.

My goal has always been too squat triple my weight so roughly around 390 or so...but i dont know which program to use to get up their, right now im using dr. Squats vertical jump program (w w w . b o d y b u i l d i n g . c o m / f u n / d r s q u a t 1 8 . h t m ) --sorry wont let me post links-- to increase my VJ, any suggestions or programs to increase my squat.

Blitzforce
07-15-2008, 09:30 PM
well reach is not just your arm length, but you shoulder tilt and your body stretches more than you think :)

If you play that much BBall, 5 hours is excessive! Then you will find gaining strength and, being fresh enough to jump high, will be a problem
The stronger you get the more recovery you will need. Same applies for jumping too, a person with a 40+ inch VJ jumping maximally will be floored if he did 50 jumps vs a 24 inch jumper.

My motto is - if it doesn't make you better than the last time you did it, don't do it :)
So squatting will make you stronger, jumping will help movement effeciency and help your jump, but playing BBall will just burn up energy and eat into recovery. If you want hops, sacrifice now and reap the rewards later. Limit yourself to one game a week etc. And if you sprain an ankle, well that will derail your training....

as far as squatting goes, honestly I just work up to a max set and try and add more weight to the bar or more reps than last time. If you have recovered enough, you should be getting stronger every session for a good while. I only squat once a week and then jump 4 days later, and I'm making good gains.

read these for more info
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpfaq.html
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/theultimatesplit.html
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/ultimatesplitfaq.html

Dr squat's program is useless IMO, % based training is a waste of time.

Get stronger, keep jumping regularly and everything will take care of itself. If you not making gains,if your training hard, then your not resting enough - simple

Blitzforce
07-15-2008, 09:33 PM
this is how the guy I mentioned earlier, AC aka SquatDr, the guy with the huge hops, does his squatting.


for the most part i have usually done just one all out working set. i agree with andrew in that the 20 rep squats for an athlete are not optimal. sore for days and CNS is fried, nothing left for other stuff. what has routinely worked for me is to do all my warmup sets with maximal effort on those (compensatory acceleration). 225x5 315x5 405x5 495x3 585x1 and then working set, usually going for a personal best. lets say i wanted a 4 rep max with a belt. then i get 635x4 with more in the tank, i might try another set or i might call it. the next session i will use that 4 rep lift as a guide to my new goal, a three rep max. and again depending on how easy the set goes and other volume planned (plyos, sprints, lifts) i might make a go for more weight or i might just call it. this really seems to work for several reasons. changing the rep range each time seems to keep my from hitting a plateau, the one (or two) working sets seem to be enough to get gains, but not enough to wear me out, which means i can squat more often without hitting a plateau and it wont tap into my sprinting and jumping. it also works because its fun to try to hit a new personal best each time and you will usually have a goal of what you want to hit prior to the lift. seems to work for everyone who has tried it.

AC

Blitzforce
07-15-2008, 09:43 PM
About this guy Gray - to show you what can be done, but you gotta limit your games :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZEto8WMcSE


Can't speak for the fence leaper but Gray's stats include the following:
Ht. 6'
Wt. 170
Sq. 350
Standing Vertical on Vertec: 40"


When he started:
Ht. 6'
Wt. 155
Sq. 245
Standing Vertical on Vertec: 27"


Initially with Gray, we were doing rehab after he broke his fibula in a game. Then when he was actually able to perform some weight room work we did a one month block of basic strength. From there, we pretty much followed Kelly B's VJ bible. I did add EMS during several blocks and we performed a whole lot of visualization usually post-workout or on its own.

I believe the critical aspects of his training came through monitoring his CNS intensive sessions and resting him when I felt he needed it. Many may be familiar with the notion that 48 hrs is considered the "minimum" rest break between high intensity workouts. Like many aspects in training, this is highly individual and you must keep in mind everything that is on an athletes plate. In Gray's case, we took as much time as I felt he needed to come back and perform at the appropriate level. There is no exact answer here. This is something that has taken me 15 + years to become proficient at and is the art of good coaching.

Basketball players are notorious for playing ball day after day and for hours upon hours. Gray was no different! During intensive training blocks, I limited the number of actual games he could play per week and allowed for a some skills sessions depending on time, recovery etc.

I can think of one statement I've heard by a few great coaches who influenced me in the past: "Do as much as necessary, not as much as possible"! Words to live by in this game my friends!


have been in the strength and conditioning field for 15 plus years and worked with many athletes over that time period.

Last year I was able to work with an aspiring young basketball player. I utilized much of Kelly's programming with this young man and his dream of a full ride scholarship came to fruition.

In summary, this athlete came to me as a 20 year old, skinny caucasion with better than average basketball skills. He was what I have heard others describe as an "in betweener"! He was pretty much overlooked for scholarship offers as a senior and began to blossom a bit after graduating. He worked his butt off during the summer but was frustrated with his strength workouts. After breaking his fibula in a rec. game he sought out my services. Together with a couple of other specialists, we were able to get him to the point where he could actually workout to improve his performance.

Here were his initial numbers:

3/1/2005 Standing Reach:78
3/1/2005 Vertical Jump(Vertec): 27
3/2/2005 Body Weight: 150
Back Squat: 205 x 2

PR's:

5/20/2006 Body Weight: 155

Back Squat: 340 x 1
5/19/2006 Vertical Jump (Vertec): 34.5

Final PR's Before Leaving For College:

8/14/2006 Body Weight: 160
8/14/2006 Vertical Jump (Vertec): 38"
8/15/2006 Back Squat: 360 x 1




Other than applying EMS, we essentially followed Kelly's programs to the letter. The athlete has put 15 inches on his vertical. This was a countermovement jump with no steps. I have helped other athletes to improve 4, 6 and even 8 inches on their verts in the past, but this was simply amazing. I must give Kelly much of the credit for this one as ultimately the "proof was in the pudding"!

End of summer we hand timed his 40 yard dash at just under 4.5. He recently phoned me to say that he was out on the track in Arizona where he is going to school and the track coach watched him beat one of his sprinters in a short race. He indicated to the track coach what he ran the 40 in and the track coach timed him on the spot. The result was a 4.47 electronic 40.

-Mike Doyle
owner - COR-performance - Ogden, UT

RedSpikeyThing
07-16-2008, 06:16 AM
defineitely can't dunk. 5'8" :( I can almost touch the rim though :)

Tu4290
07-16-2008, 08:02 AM
ok I guess ill stop Dr. Squats training routine and adopt kelly's workout. Do you think I should get his development bible or whatever..or should I just stick with his sample fundamental split routine.

I'm a little confused as to when your suppose to add weight to your lifts....is money method is kinda confusing care to elaborate on that, or elaborate on how, when i should increase weight to my lifts.

mikey4402
07-16-2008, 02:03 PM
Yes, I can dunk very easy

Blitzforce
07-16-2008, 04:35 PM
ok I guess ill stop Dr. Squats training routine and adopt kelly's workout. Do you think I should get his development bible or whatever..or should I just stick with his sample fundamental split routine.

I'm a little confused as to when your suppose to add weight to your lifts....is money method is kinda confusing care to elaborate on that, or elaborate on how, when i should increase weight to my lifts.


Well his VJ Faq article pretty much summarises his book, but his book is a lot more indepth and has sample routines for all training age and weaknesses. You do the program depending on how you test. It a good read if your into jumping so worth getting. I would get the hardcopy version, but if your patient enough you can print out the PDF which ends up looking like a telephone book :)

The money set method is like WestSide's max effort. In the warmups increase the load each set, but keeping the reps low to reduce fatigue, and then hit an all out set or near all out to set a new PR. A bit like that example I gave above from AC.

ok let's say your money set on workout 1 was 200lbs x 6 a new PR
you probably would ahve warmed up like this - bar x8, 95x4, 135x3, 155x2, 185x1 --> then money set 200x6

workout 2 you try and hit 200x7, workout 3 shoot for 200x8
since you can hit 3 reps over your rep range - 6, you can now add 5% to the load. So now you workout with 210lbs next time, and try and hit 210x6
and repeat the process

Majestic
07-17-2008, 07:24 PM
Awesome thread. Keep it coming.

ced^_-
07-17-2008, 09:08 PM
I can dunk with a standing start. But I suck at basketball:confused:

DoUgL@S
07-23-2008, 01:38 PM
Just saw the thread so. . . Used to when I played a LOT. 6' 1" 175-185 lbs. Easily got midway between wrist and elbow above the rim, but small hands hampers dunking with one hand. I would say I had >34" vertical.

yorkgivens
07-27-2008, 09:56 AM
Does a door hoop count:)

mike42506
07-28-2008, 06:45 PM
holy ****... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GszNJ1NCWo&feature=related

Blitzforce
07-30-2008, 03:00 AM
really old video - there are much more impressive people out these days. And 2 legged jumpers as well :)

hithegym7footer
07-31-2008, 01:49 AM
i wish i could say it was hard.

yorkgivens
08-04-2008, 05:00 PM
Try using cratons bands. That's what we use to practice with.

Bupp
08-31-2008, 02:25 PM
I will dunk before feb 1st. 2009 :)

Blitzforce
08-31-2008, 04:07 PM
I will dunk before feb 1st. 2009 :)

best not to make predictions - ***** never works out in my experience :clown:

CosmicForce
09-05-2008, 04:19 PM
Nope, that stereotype ain't true, which is why I played soccer instead of basketball.

BradDunn
10-26-2008, 12:13 PM
I have seen many olympic weightlifters , even the supers, with amazing verts.

I am a professional Strongman but I have always trained oly lifts and done a lot of plyometrics. At 5' 11" (maybe), and generally weighing 290, I can dunk with two hands at the age of 37.
The last time I was tested was several years ago by some football scouts and I weighed 253 and jumped 39.5". My measured height that day was 5' 10 3/4".

Blitzforce
10-26-2008, 03:16 PM
I have seen many olympic weightlifters , even the supers, with amazing verts.

I am a professional Strongman but I have always trained oly lifts and done a lot of plyometrics. At 5' 11" (maybe), and generally weighing 290, I can dunk with two hands at the age of 37.
The last time I was tested was several years ago by some football scouts and I weighed 253 and jumped 39.5". My measured height that day was 5' 10 3/4".

what was your standing reach at the combine and how was it measured?
single or 2 handed reach? did you stretch as hard as you could?

I've seen some dubious verts at combines, due to the way they measure the reach, and how people tend to cheat on top of that

Only a head height measured vert is accurate, you can't fudge it

At 5'11" + in shoes, you should be able to bump your head easily on a 9 feet backboard, and get your head within 8 inches off the rim, standing, with a near 40 inch VJ.

BradDunn
10-27-2008, 11:16 AM
what was your standing reach at the combine and how was it measured?
single or 2 handed reach? did you stretch as hard as you could?

I've seen some dubious verts at combines, due to the way they measure the reach, and how people tend to cheat on top of that

Only a head height measured vert is accurate, you can't fudge it

At 5'11" + in shoes, you should be able to bump your head easily on a 9 feet backboard, and get your head within 8 inches off the rim, standing, with a near 40 inch VJ.

7' 6", Single handed. Certainly cheating happens in these measurements. The scout was trying to monitor and make sure we were extending our arm/hand completely.
If you want to question the accuracy that's fine. I measured 38" or better every time I was tested no mattter the conditions or circumstance. I am sure I do not have quite that capability now and I can still dunk a basketball at my current weight. I can still also jump to a 48" box w/o a step.
I am sure we are both getting more technical than neccesary. The question was can I/we dunk and the answer is yes. I guess I should have just left it at that.

10.5 Dave
10-27-2008, 12:49 PM
I could in HS at 160lbs but at 240 there is no way.

Big_Byrd52
10-28-2008, 10:03 AM
Nope, i cant do it. im 5'7 225 with a 38 inch vertical and still just barely get my fingers over the rim. even if i could get up high enough, my hands are too small to palm the ball.

smokinHawk
10-28-2008, 10:16 AM
Nope, i cant do it. im 5'7 225 with a 38 inch vertical and still just barely get my fingers over the rim. even if i could get up high enough, my hands are too small to palm the ball.

i would think someone (WR holder) and light would have a vertical higher then that, just shows you that Baggets theory is off

Blitzforce
10-28-2008, 11:19 AM
he doesn't practise jumping, that's why, you need movement effiency in the jump as well

and as I have found out, squatting heavy weights with a fairly high volume will kill your hops. You have to practise jumping and unload for a good month before you reach your peak jump. I bet if he stopped squatting heavy for a good 2 months and practised jumping for max height twice a week he would add at least 6 inches to his jump minimum!

still even at 5'7" a 38 inch VJ should get his wrist close to the rim. I'm 5'8.5" with really short arms, 7'4" reach when I'm warmed up and full stretching up hard as I can. Every person at my gym can reach higher than me, even guys 2-3 shorter than me! 40 inches would put my wrist to the rim.

Alan Barch Jr, aka Squat DR, was only jumping in the 30s when he was squatting in the 400lb are, and now has at least a 46 inch VJ and over 52 inch off a run!
5'9" 210lbs 620+lb full oly squat, 545lb front squat. He has a new high touch of 11'9" with a 7'5" reach, hand over the top of the squat on the backboard

He's squatting triple bodyweight with no belt and oly style, and he jumps higher than just about anyone I know off. When you ask him, he will tell you both his squat and jump went up together over the years. But he does practise jumping and he sprints, pretty damn fast too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86sgfL_-mx8

Big_Byrd52
10-28-2008, 01:15 PM
my standing reach is 87 inches. i get around the base of my fingers usually, but i have a tendancy to swat. my legs are also usually very sore from squatting and deadlifting that its hard to squat down pick up my keys from the floor. i just jump sometimes on weds nights with the youth department at the church to see who can get higher. i also jumped and grabbed the rim as soon as i got out my squat suit at a meet after just squatting 1063. definately not an ideal scenerio. I tested at the Arnold after squatting 700 pounds raw in the Animal Cage and hit 38 at the testing booth. a half inch shorter than the highest of the day actually. but my legs were fresh from where i deloaded two weeks prior. thats the only time i have ever had it officially tested on one of those poles.

adding 6 inches to that would be SICK! i would love break 40 inches and get it on video!

on a side not, i have heard that the shoes u jump in affect the height. coushined shoes absorb the force before it can be transferred to the floor for max power output. i jumped in my chuck taylors

Majestic
11-01-2008, 01:01 PM
i would think someone (WR holder) and light would have a vertical higher then that, just shows you that Baggets theory is off

I think Bagget is saying that if you are 225 lbs., and can full olympic squat 510 lbs., that it's within your ability to leap 38 inches if your movement efficiency is up to par.

All of BigByrd's numbers are incredible, of course. But follow me here, as I make some assumptions that could be incorrect:

BigByrd said he squats 1000+ in a suit, but 700 raw. And I'm assuming that's using the very wide-stance, somewhat-shallow form that people use in these YouTube powerlifting videos I've seen, not a full olympic squat, where he'd be below parallel with a much narrower stance.

So I guess the question is: what is BigByrd's below-parallel, full Olympic raw squat?

Here is Bagget's calculator:

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/verticaljumpcalculator.html

BTW, I really admire Bagget's work, but am not hugging his training principles by any means. I'm just not sure that you're conclusions based on BigByrd's numbers disprove anything Kelly Bagget has ever stated. Especially since he doesn't train his movement efficiency.

This thread has really picked up again. Cool.

Big_Byrd52
11-03-2008, 06:03 PM
I just used the calculator link posted. My 705 squat was in a belt, to parallel, no deeper. stance is about shoulder width, video is here of 635, 675,705: http://media.putfile.com/Sam-Byrd-at-the-NERB

i do squat more than that now, i would assume around 740 but have not tested it. i do not know what an ATG no belt squat would be? i would assume a 600 is reasonable since i can do 635 for 5 smooth reps normally. By the calc i would only need a 500 ATG to have a 38 inch vert. A 600 would have me at 44, and someone earlier stated practice on tech would yield around 6 inches to put me there.. so i dont know?

i also know some guys who cant squat jack but can really get up there? it is interesting tho.

Blitzforce
11-03-2008, 06:54 PM
off a run, quite a few people can do it, but probably not standing though, I don't know many people who can jump well standing without a big squat.
If they can, then when they start squatting, it won't take them long to hit some good weights relative to their bodyweight

just like naturally fast sprinters tend to squat well too, when they learn the movement and start doing it regularly

it's like the chicken or the egg thing :)

Dgro
11-03-2008, 07:13 PM
I can dunk two-handed from a stand-still on a good day, with a run-up any day

plyometrics baby, /flex

Dgro
11-03-2008, 07:14 PM
oh, and i see Kelly Baggett's name came up

he's the ****ing man

Bassist-Dude
11-04-2008, 09:59 PM
oh, and i see Kelly Baggett's name came up

he's the ****ing man

Couldn't agree more, man.

I've been following the VJB, and I'm making great gains.
Today I set a new Standing Vert PR after my workout, roughly 25" while my last was 24" or so.
My running is even better, I can't wait until I'm dunking. It seems so close right now.

Blitzforce
11-05-2008, 12:13 AM
need more proof squatting improves your hops?
another quote from Kelly Baggett


In one instance I had a client that I felt had way too many movement dysfunctions to ever benefit from increased strength. The guy was fairly strong and thick but didn't move very smooth and anyone who watched him would probably say the same thing. In a little more than a year he'd gotten up to around a 300 pound squat, weighed 170 pounds and gone from a 22 to 26 inch vertical jump. At this point I thought if he ever wanted to further improve as an athlete the guy should spend most of his time working on mobility, activation, and movement work and less on strength training. At this point he decided to stop sports training and take up bodybuilding. A year later his bodyweight was up 20 pounds, his squat was up almost 100 pounds, and he hadn't done any sports or movement related stuff in almost a year. He then told me he wanted to get back into vert training and I fully expected him to look like a trainwreck. After a couple of weeks of deloading and working back into some jump training he proceeded to go out and hit a 35 inch jump and easily dunk for the first time, so obviously my original assumptions were wrong. After observing a couple of more instances like that I realized I'd fallen into functional overanalyzation trap of the modern day strength and conditioning coach. This type of movmement impairment overanlyzation doesn't take place in sports like gymnastics and martial arts but people still improve just fine. Train with good form, play your sport, become aware of what proper movement feels and looks like, and most of the activation stuff will work itself out. To clarify I'm also not against the use of various progressions to ensure good form like you like to use. What I'm against is the notion that training for athletes and training for people coming out of joint replacement surgery needs to be the same.

ReFuse2Lose
11-18-2008, 08:43 AM
Almost. Im 5'10'' / 5'11'' and 18 years old, a senior in high school. On a good day i think i could get a volleyball maybe a girls ball.

<3 Jumpsquats :)

Hanlon
11-26-2008, 09:04 PM
Yeah on my fisherprice net.

connelly
12-18-2008, 04:35 PM
I can dunk on a 9' and i'm 5'6" (I know it's not impressive just sayin).

EDIT:wow this is an old post my bad ):

Dgro
12-18-2008, 06:00 PM
Almost. Im 5'10'' / 5'11'' and 18 years old, a senior in high school. On a good day i think i could get a volleyball maybe a girls ball.

<3 Jumpsquats :)

Seriously. If anyone wants to tack a few pounds on their vert really fast, do some jump squats. I've only done them 3 times in 10 days and I've already gained at least 1 inch just like that.

bossman009
01-17-2009, 12:13 AM
Yup.. im 6 foot and can tomahawk 10 foot

Blitzforce
01-26-2009, 12:55 AM
Alan Barch jr, the guy I mentioned above with the super hops, putting his face into a 9.5 feet high backboard is proof enough the guy is jumping at least 48 inches at 5'9" 210lbs!!!

Video and interview here
http://www.argusleader.com/article/20090115/COLUMNISTS0113/901150307/-1/voices

That's what having a big squat and 30 inch legs (30 inch waist) can do for ya :)

Rember he was jumping a good deal less many years ago

cichlidfort
01-28-2009, 12:23 AM
I am 6'7 and a half and I can do it pretty easily. My vert sucks though but I am starting to work on my legs.

Kober
03-03-2009, 06:42 AM
Imagine jumping from the free throw line, and having your head eye-level with the rim half way to the hoop in mid air.. MJ.
~ sorry ~

Blitzforce
03-03-2009, 02:18 PM
Bodybuilder hops!!!

pure strength jumping at it's finest, very slow and low dip, but he gets up there 8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7uyQfVgrrk

he's about 5'9" and weighs 185lbs
With a bit more practise and technique work, he could get another 3+ inches higher.
Rim is slightly bent, but not too much. Pretty close to dunking off vertical!

Judging by his head to net height, I would put his vertical jump around the 36-38 inch area

and a 56" boxjump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nltvE4t4_E

he's got some muscles on his legs :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fGs_bKCTKE

I guess that answers the question about muscles gained from bodybuilding do anything for power/strength. No difference IMO

---

well he does appear to practise some jumping, but not a like BBall'er would. I see a hurdle hop video in his channel

Anyone know how far apart those track markings are at the end of the clip? That would give you an idea of his broad jump as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Qo1zL-W3Y

but it backs up my belief all muscle and strength work is general.
Get big/strong and practise jumping = hops

----

I emailed him, and guy replied back -


I am about 84kilos right now but bulking a little. My best squat is 200kilos, ass to the grass :)

Now bulking can mean many things, especially when your as lean as that guy is.
440lbs with 185lb bodyweight = 39+ inch with my VJ formula. And he is definitely jumping around there!

I've been exchanging messages with the bodybuilder, and he honestly doesn't train jumping at all!
So the hops he has displayed are all basic strength to weight ratio, as a result of proper bodybuilding training - squatting more weight for reps over time to build bigger muscles. 2.38x bodyweight squat will give anyone hops :)

He can definitely improve a few more inches with regular practise and technique work for sure!!
One of the few people out there with a legit near 40 inch vertical jump, and a Bodybuilder at that :D



Thanks for the link..interesting.

I have never trained jumping or done any spesific exercises, just doing it sometimes for fun.

Next time I'll try to go down faster, that sounds rational for higher jump. Never thought about that "going down-phase" :)

-Jatkis-


and here we have a people "killing" themselves with plyos and depth jumps, jumpsquats and olympic lifts, and the guy just squats and tries to get bigger and jumps once in a while and gets up real good :)

hellofit4
04-15-2009, 11:40 AM
yeah. 5'10 i can do it when i in senior school

Blitzforce
04-23-2009, 11:53 PM
Just an update on that Alan "SquatDR" Barch dude

he hit a huge vertical and running jump PR today! The pics tell the story!!! height is 5'9" reach is 7'5.5" bodyweight around 205-210lbs


50 inch standing jump
54.5 running jump!

A world record!

The guy recently squatted 635lbs x 5 - low bar style raw
My Vertical Jump calculator has been vidicated!!!! :clap:




So today was the big test day finally and after 3 weeks of not squatting heavy, i was being driven nuts wondering when i was finally going to test my standing and running vjs for a local strength coach and his coworkers/assistants. it was a windy day outside (20-30mph plus gusts) and the test was to be done outside, but this didnt factor in much. my reach was measured post warmup and jumps and it was .5" higher than usual, maybe due to spinal decomprestion from lack of squatting, not sure. but it was 7'5-1/2". my plyos and jumps in practice were higher than ever. i used a new approach, approaching much faster and i abandoned my jump stop technique which i used post injury, for my old left right plant. it allowed me to come in much faster and also allowed me to jump straighter up instead of up and out. this seemed to help. my previous official prs were 46.5" standing and 51" running. i wanted to beat those and another goal of mine was to touch 12". i knew i couldnt be far off. the guys were cool and let me take as many jumps as i wanted, and its a good thing because i suffer from "one more time" disease and i took over 15 standing jumps on the vertec and 15 running jumps on the vertec. my squat strength has been high before deload and my jumps have felt great. my first jump i hit a 48.5 standing. now i knew that 50 standing was possible. it took another 10 jumps to hit 50. then i realized that my reach hadnt been measured yet and what if it was higher for some reason. i took a few more jumps and hit 50.5 which ended up being a 50 when my reach was measured. i had been doing plenty of reactive work prior to this and knew my running would be good, i just wasnt sure if 12 feet was realistic. i hit high 11's for all jumps and nicked the top of the vertec at 12 feet. there was some controversy as to whether i made contact or not, so i just said screw it, ill just do it again. the next jump i hit it cleanly and there was no dispute. the guys were cool about everything and just wanted to make sure things are accurate and i respect that, and when i proved to them that a standing 40" vertical was possible and then did a 50" they admitted they were wrong and gave me credit. i respect them for that. after that my wife arrived and i did get some pics of me jumping relative to the rim. i posted some pics below. the guys took pics and i think some video of the vertec jumps, but not sure. i will email but i know they took pictures for sure, and i saw one guy with his camera phone.
the reach was funny, they stretched me like crazy and rightfully so, and as i stated my reach was .5" more than before.
i am on cloud nine after todays jumps. for the guys to come threw, for the weather to hold up, for me to be fresh and peaked, and for it all work out was awesome. if i never jump again (dont worry i will) i would be completely satisfied with what i accomplished today. i am very proud of what i was able to do and glad the testing is over. I hope the guys who came got the info they wanted and that they now believe that big things can be accomplished. the main S and C guy said that it was nothing personal, he was just researching and said that he didnt think a legit 40" vertical excistsed much less anything more than that and he figured either he is proven right or he would see some great jumps and that it would be worth the drive for him. he must have thought i would be able to jump that high, otherwise he wouldnt have brought his assisntants/buddies. i did feel though that they were rooting against me at first but once i started getting some big jumps in, they were pulling for me as much as anyone.
my knees hurt, i did over 50 maximal effort jumps between the vertec and rim jumps, and i feel fried. now enough of the jumping stuff, and time to get faster and start squatting heavy again!!!!
train hard,
AC

standing jump with head measure
http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/mytphotos/fullSize/46ae6-DSCN0779.jpg
http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/mytphotos/fullSize/3150e-DSCN0747.jpg

running jump with reach
http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/mytphotos/fullSize/36451-DSCN0736.jpg
http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/mytphotos/fullSize/233c0-DSCN0682.jpg


running vj head height -
one of best jumps in my life!
http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/mytphotos/fullSize/7e699-DSCN0762.jpg

kozzmozmo
05-03-2009, 12:11 PM
amazing

rctriplefresh5
05-03-2009, 12:58 PM
holy moly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CosmicForce
05-03-2009, 08:27 PM
Ridiculous Plyo Training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SixgX9blf3Y

Abe Froman
08-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Used to. Right now I can dunk a small basketball. Another inch or two and i can put down a regular basketball...if i start playing ball again consistently its possible.

berfles
08-18-2009, 08:45 PM
I found out I can still jump up and hang on the rim. Last time I tried that was when I was 160lbs.

DieselWarrior
11-30-2009, 06:09 PM
No, but I can dunk a donut or a cookie... I prefer MILK! :-)

DieselWarrior
11-30-2009, 06:11 PM
Ridiculous Plyo Training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SixgX9blf3Y

That was CRAZY!

function
12-03-2009, 08:16 AM
i used to be able to. i recently started a new vertical jump training program http://www.increaseyourverticalhq.com.

back about 2 years ago when i was squatting, id squat 1.5x my BW and DL a fair bit, all the plyos and sports i was doing helped my explosiveness and i could ALMOST dunk.. i was close.

then i injured my knees doing parkour, rehab is a bit*h

SASS
12-11-2009, 10:04 PM
I can dunk pretty easy not just cause of my height my arms are also really long. My arm span is 6' 6" but i don't like to play basket ball lol

JSully
12-17-2009, 02:53 PM
lulz, this thread is full of ban

Beverly McD.
12-17-2009, 03:56 PM
Only if somebody holds the ladder.


5'3' and eternally grateful for highheels lolol

bulldogs702
12-19-2009, 04:11 PM
When I was 19 at 5' 11" and 198 I could Dunk not bad for a white guy. But once my weight started to get over 250 those days are gone.

twm
01-01-2010, 08:15 PM
all this talk about dunking and not 1 member posts up a video of them dunking

i have never tried it.. but I probably can't. i will try tomorrow

VDubb
02-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Bump....

Life Accomplishment #3,794 - Dunk a basketball after the age of 30

Threw one down (surprisingly hard!) the other day (I play twice a week during the winter).......6' 2" 185.......but I have large hands so I can palm the ball, which is obviously a big advantage!!

My squat.......sucks........so who knows........

Ruff Riff
02-05-2010, 09:50 AM
At 6'4" and 180 pounds with a 42 inch vert, 14 years ago I could do ANY dunk, today at 260 - 265 (and growing) a two handed vertical dunk is all I got left! rim feels high these days....

When I was 180 pounds I couldn't bench 450 or deadlift 650 though either...so I guess ya gotta give a little to get a little! :)

Bupp
02-05-2010, 09:56 PM
A while back in this thread I said I would dunk...Never ended up happening. Closest I got was being able to jump up and grab rim with both hands and dunk a volleyball.

Fitness
02-07-2010, 08:33 AM
I think I can prolly dunk on a 8.5-9 foot hoop. I think the standard NBA hoop is 10 feet right?

Hazerboy
02-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Bodybuilder hops!!!



are you citing the rule or the exception? I've squatted 463 in competition at 198 and I can barely touch rim.

Guido
02-18-2010, 02:18 PM
are you citing the rule or the exception? I've squatted 463 in competition at 198 and I can barely touch rim.

Yes but how tall are you?


I'm 5'9 (well, more like 5'8.5" but I round up ;)) and have a 30" even standing vert and can just barely touch rim. I'm guessing I'd have to have a 40" vert to even think about dunking. Probably not gonna happen.

Patz
03-07-2010, 03:46 PM
I'm 6'1" and about 215 and the last time I really jumped I still couldn't touch the rim. I did nick it just barely when I was 17 or so. I'm inmuch better shape and much stronger now at 30. I dunno what's wrong with me..lol I do have shorter arms but still...I really think I should be able to dunk.

I haven't played basketball in a couple years, but I still dream about dunking once in a while..lol

Dgro
03-07-2010, 11:40 PM
i hate that i can't palm a ball. my fingers are long and my grip strength is excellent (both grip dynamometer- and deadlift-wise). oh well, i can still throw down two handed on a good day

kartinkent
03-17-2010, 11:38 PM
Hello guys
I am 6', 225 lbs, I can run and jump and grab a hold of the rim, I haven't been able to pull off a smooth dunk though. Standing still and jumping I can touch the rim.So does this mean if I drop 30 pounds I'll be able to dunk easily? It's funny, I've never really equated losing weight with jumping higher. It does make sense though.

pablonba
03-27-2010, 10:23 AM
i cant dunk! and is the only thing i want!

i squat like 310lbs and weigh 205lbs, thats 1,5 times my bodyweight. I think that my 21% Bodyfat plays against me jumpin higher.

KoSh
03-27-2010, 10:39 AM
Yes.

If by dunk you mean spot up and shoot a 3. :)

Dgro
03-27-2010, 02:33 PM
Hello guys
I am 6', 225 lbs, I can run and jump and grab a hold of the rim, I haven't been able to pull off a smooth dunk though. Standing still and jumping I can touch the rim.So does this mean if I drop 30 pounds I'll be able to dunk easily? It's funny, I've never really equated losing weight with jumping higher. It does make sense though.

if you lose 30lbs of fat without losing strength (or very, very little) i'd give you a good shot.

seK
07-27-2010, 12:33 PM
Dunk is pretty much all I can do with a basketball, I hate that sport.

gregory.rox
08-04-2010, 02:08 PM
I'm 5'11" and 200 lbs and im pretty close to being able to dunk the ball.. im like 3" off from being able... But my friend is a little over 6' and weighs 230 or so lbs and he can dunk the ball.. that is from a running start lol

Titanium_Jim
09-21-2010, 08:07 PM
I was able to dunk on a lucky jump back when I weighed 170 and under. Now that I'm at 215, not so much. I'm doing plyos as part of my routine now though, and it is a goal to get up there again.

It's sad. I really should be able to. I'm 6' 5, and my reach without standing on my toes is over 8'.