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View Full Version : Bar placement in a conventional deadlift - against the shins or out infront?



Keith
06-24-2008, 04:35 PM
This was briefly discussed in a journal but I thought I'd make a thread on it and get some of the pros' input on this.


When pulling conventionally, do you pull with the bar against your shins and keeping it as close to your body as possible? Or, do you keep the bar a few inches infront of your shins in order to pull in the shortest distance possible(straight line)?


Just to throw out a couple of big names out there for credibilities sake, Jim Wendler talks about keeping the bar out infront and shoulders behind the bar in order to pull it in a straight line. This is discussed in detail in the Squat/Deadlift Exercise Index DVD. Haven't seen much of it elsewhere but that's definitely worth buying and talked about more in depth. Mark Rippetoe also discusses in even greater detail as to why you should keep it as close to your body as possible and keeping the shoulders out infront here (http://www.crossfit.com/journal/2006/11/a_new_rather_long_analysis_of.html).


I'm wondering if the guys at Westside and other SHW's use this technique because of their belly. Afterall, a big belly isn't the best thing to have to pull with. So I'm wonder if keeping the shoulders behind the bar, the hips lower and the bar a few inches out infront of them has anything to do with weight?



Discuss.

SGT ROCK
06-24-2008, 05:12 PM
Alot of this is dependent on body structure, limb length etc. Lamar Gant could start with the bar touching his shins and still not have his shoulders go over the bar for instance. I feel you should get it as close as possible while still keeping the shoulders over the bar, not PAST the bar so to speak.

Semper Fi

HP666
06-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Alot of this is dependent on body structure, limb length etc. Lamar Gant could start with the bar touching his shins and still not have his shoulders go over the bar for instance. I feel you should get it as close as possible while still keeping the shoulders over the bar, not PAST the bar so to speak.

Semper Fi

I agree with that.

Reko
06-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Mine is about 2-3 inches off my shins. Its right where my arms hang straight down when i get into my pulling position.

Brodiesel
06-24-2008, 08:57 PM
i've noticed when i try and start the bar a couple of inches off my shins in order to keep my shoulders behind the bar that when i start to pull i end up pulling the weight towards my shins before it even starts going upward. Although I didn't have theis problem two sessions ago. Maybe it was just a off day, I feel like the closer to my shins the lower my hips will have to be in order to get my shoulders behind the bar.

BFGUITAR
06-24-2008, 09:26 PM
In terms of physics, you want to keep the bar as close as possible so you can move it in a straight line. Really, you try to achieve this but since everyone is different there will be variations.

Jaybird88
06-24-2008, 09:33 PM
I tend to start with the bar barely touching my shins, putting my shoulder blades over the bar.

Keith
06-24-2008, 09:36 PM
In terms of physics, you want to keep the bar as close as possible so you can move it in a straight line. Really, you try to achieve this but since everyone is different there will be variations.

That's Jim Wendler's point, though. A straight line isn't keeping the bar as close to your body as possible. That's why he stresses the point of keeping it out in front of you by a couple of inches. And I understand everyone is different, but the proportion of limbs and all can only vary so much...

thewicked
06-26-2008, 11:10 AM
THE closer it is to your person..the closer it is to your center of gravity..the closer it is to your center of gravity...the easier the lift is to complete!

Keith
06-26-2008, 02:18 PM
THE closer it is to your person..the closer it is to your center of gravity..the closer it is to your center of gravity...the easier the lift is to complete!


Is it? Or is pulling in the shortest distance possible easier?

deeder
06-26-2008, 02:24 PM
Is it? Or is pulling in the shortest distance possible easier?

Are you familiar with the term leverage?

Keith
06-26-2008, 02:29 PM
Lol, I am, but I don't see much talk about what I'm comparing here as I don't think too many people are reading my original post.

RedSpikeyThing
06-26-2008, 03:30 PM
Is it? Or is pulling in the shortest distance possible easier?

The centre of gravity is the fulcrum of the lever. The further you are from the fulcrum the more of an advantage the weight has over you, so keep it tight.

Phil Bailey
06-26-2008, 09:20 PM
I find that pulling with the bar a couple of inches away from the shins is best. I think this is the case because as the bar moves up, you will have the ability to lean back a bit and push the hips forward giving you more leverage. This is what Jim Wendler explains in his DVD. The foward push of the hips is the same motion as a good morning or a box squat. I guess that's why there is a carry over when doing those exercises on ME days. In the DVD Jim explains on almost all lower body exercises the forward push of the hips is the primary movement which starts the lift.

Also, Jim explains that the mid point of the shoulder should be behind the bar. So if you have huge shoulders, the front of the shoulder may be over the bar, but the midpoint (medial head) may still be behind the bar. It's all based on perspective and what part of the shoulder you use to determine placement over the bar.

dynamo
06-27-2008, 06:40 AM
yesterday when I was pulling I was going for 385 but i knew I needed some serious glute/hip action so I had the bar an inch or two in front of my shins and i focused on using my glutes to lift the weight. I wouldn't have had that same leverage if the bar was tight against my shins. On the other hand I notice I will pull more with my back if I am not careful when I have the weight an inch or two in front of my shins compared to having it against my shins. I figure this is all to do with where I place my ass, like the previous post said its all about the good morning type movement to get the weight off the ground. At least for me.

MillerTime1485
06-27-2008, 06:48 AM
Personally it feels more natural for me to have the bar an inch or two away from my shins.. but I always force myself to keep it close.

Guido
06-27-2008, 12:01 PM
I generally start with the bar 1/2"-1" from my shins and once it hits my knees it slides against my thighs and that's there the hips/glutes really come into play.

Ben Moore
06-27-2008, 02:34 PM
I tend to start with it out in front a bit.

RedSpikeyThing
06-27-2008, 03:31 PM
I find that pulling with the bar a couple of inches away from the shins is best. I think this is the case because as the bar moves up, you will have the ability to lean back a bit and push the hips forward giving you more leverage.

This makes a lot of sense to me, thanks :)