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vdizenzo
06-24-2008, 06:37 PM
a better powerlifter?

I just finished Nutrient Timing by John Ivy, Ph.D., and Robert Portman Ph.D. It is a good book to learn the basics of what to take/eat in relation to pre, during, and post workouts. You can find most of the information if you know what you are looking for on the internet. It basically reinforced some nutrition habits I had gotten away from.

Now I am rereading Total Mind Body Training by Jacob H. Jordan, M.D. This is a great book. It's an Eastern Philosophy approach to sports psychology. I recommend this book highly. If you do not employ sports psychology in your training and competing you are missing out.

Lones Green
06-24-2008, 06:53 PM
i read dave's under the bar all the time. thats more of a becoming a better PERSON book though...

i'm starting college next semester, and plan on doing something strength coaching/exercise science related, i need to start reading some of these books!

vdizenzo
06-24-2008, 07:16 PM
i read dave's under the bar all the time. thats more of a becoming a better PERSON book though...

i'm starting college next semester, and plan on doing something strength coaching/exercise science related, i need to start reading some of these books!

So you're the one who bought Dave's book. Just kidding Dave.

Auburn
06-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Nutrient Timing is a fine book, but it's definitely got blinders on. My favorite part is at the end with the advertisements for their products...which just happen to be formulated with what they've been trying to sell to you the entire time. And, it ignores a lot of data regarding the necessity of the the inflammatory/ROS response for maximum adaptation...but the data wasn't nearly as prevalent when the book was written.

Anyway, I've been rereading old John McCullum, Paul Kelso, and Bill Starr stuff recently.

vdizenzo
06-24-2008, 07:30 PM
Nutrient Timing is a fine book, but it's definitely got blinders on. My favorite part is at the end with the advertisements for their products...which just happen to be formulated with what they've been trying to sell to you the entire time. And, it ignores a lot of data regarding the necessity of the the inflammatory/ROS response for maximum adaptation...but the data wasn't nearly as prevalent when the book was written.

Anyway, I've been rereading old John McCullum, Paul Kelso, and Bill Starr stuff recently.

I have no advertisements in my book. Are we talking about the same thing?

Auburn
06-24-2008, 07:49 PM
I have no advertisements in my book. Are we talking about the same thing?

It could just be different runs. I picked it up ~3 years ago. It's the same book; it was ads for Pacific Health products. Basically 4:1 (carbs/protein), Vitamins C/E, etc.

vdizenzo
06-24-2008, 08:21 PM
It could just be different runs. I picked it up ~3 years ago. It's the same book; it was ads for Pacific Health products. Basically 4:1 (carbs/protein), Vitamins C/E, etc.

Yeah, I just picked mine up from Amazon a few months ago. There was no mention of Pacific Health whatsoever. Could you elaborate on this statement "It ignores a lot of data regarding the necessity of the the inflammatory/ROS response for maximum adaptation...but the data wasn't nearly as prevalent when the book was written." Thanks.

KingJustin
06-24-2008, 08:59 PM
I don't read anything anymore. Every time I start reading stuff I start getting excited about trying new things and completely changing my training every week. It messes things up completely. I kind of just go to the gym now and try to follow Vinny's SFW motto.

Auburn
06-24-2008, 09:12 PM
Sure. We all know that exercise is an acute stressor that leads to an adaptation response that enables the body to better handle such stress in the future. It turns out that free radicals and local inflammation are an integral part of the signalling cascade that leads to the adaptation. In Nutrient Timing, they push the antioxidants/carbs to limit the cortisol release and neutralize free radicals, if I remember correctly.

This is an excellent review paper on the role of free radicals in adaptation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18191757

Here is a study that looked at Vitamin C at 1g/day:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/142

Now, I think carbs are fine around exercise for performance reasons. The authors make a big deal of the insulin response to limit cortisol release, but everything I've seen shows it's actually blood glucose levels that inhibit cortisol release...and both blood glucose levels and subsequently, insulin, will be significantly blunted during exercise, anyway. A lot of people seem to get benefits from taking antioxidants, so I'm not really against them, either. It just seems like a good idea to keep them away from the exercise itself if possible.

RhodeHouse
06-24-2008, 09:23 PM
Take steroids

Auburn
06-24-2008, 09:40 PM
Take steroids

Bingo.

vdizenzo
06-24-2008, 09:45 PM
Sure. We all know that exercise is an acute stressor that leads to an adaptation response that enables the body to better handle such stress in the future. It turns out that free radicals and local inflammation are an integral part of the signalling cascade that leads to the adaptation. In Nutrient Timing, they push the antioxidants/carbs to limit the cortisol release and neutralize free radicals, if I remember correctly.

This is an excellent review paper on the role of free radicals in adaptation:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18191757

Here is a study that looked at Vitamin C at 1g/day:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/1/142

Now, I think carbs are fine around exercise for performance reasons. The authors make a big deal of the insulin response to limit cortisol release, but everything I've seen shows it's actually blood glucose levels that inhibit cortisol release...and both blood glucose levels and subsequently, insulin, will be significantly blunted during exercise, anyway. A lot of people seem to get benefits from taking antioxidants, so I'm not really against them, either. It just seems like a good idea to keep them away from the exercise itself if possible.


They spent a little time on antioxidants, but not as much as you remember. A moderate dose of C, E, Sodium, Potassium, and Magnesium. About as much as you would find in a multivitamin. Regarding carbs, it seems like a lot of nutrition experts recommend them post workout to increase blood insulin levels for muscle glycogen synthesis.

chris mason
06-24-2008, 09:48 PM
Auburn, I would recommend caution relative to the recent ideas being put forth relative to inflammation and maximal adaptation. It seems to be the "thought of the day" and I am hardly convinced of its viability. Not to say the ideas behind it are entirely inaccurate, more that the leaps being taken by some who present the information are not going to be proven out over time.

chris mason
06-24-2008, 09:49 PM
They spent a little time on antioxidants, but not as much as you remember. A moderate dose of C, E, Sodium, Potassium, and Magnesium. About as much as you would find in a multivitamin. Regarding carbs, it seems like a lot of nutrition experts recommend them post workout to increase blood insulin levels for muscle glycogen synthesis.

Carbs PWO, and their subsequent insulin spike also seem to have a permissive effect relative to protein synthesis. Add some protein for available amino acids and you have a quicker return to a positive net protein balance than without given the right circumstances.

Auburn
06-24-2008, 09:56 PM
Auburn, I would recommend caution relative to the recent ideas being put forth relative to inflammation and maximal adaptation. It seems to be the "thought of the day" and I am hardly convinced of its viability. Not to say the ideas behind it are entirely inaccurate, more that the leaps being taken by some who present the information are not going to be proven out over time.

I agree that taking it to the extreme isn't a good idea. If an older lifter needs to pop a NSAID to train, it's a helluva lot better than not training.

Auburn
06-24-2008, 10:04 PM
They spent a little time on antioxidants, but not as much as you remember.

Yeah, I remember the big focus was minimizing cortisol. It just all goes hand-in-hand for the most part (ROS and the inflammatory response). I guess it boils down to the fact that I don't have any problems with their basic suggestion, just the reasoning that they employ. My apologies if I wasted anyone's time with my off-tangent rambling.

chris mason
06-24-2008, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I remember the big focus was minimizing cortisol. It just all goes hand-in-hand for the most part (ROS and the inflammatory response). I guess it boils down to the fact that I don't have any problems with their basic suggestion, just the reasoning that they employ. My apologies if I wasted anyone's time with my off-tangent rambling.

Not at all, good stuff!

By the way, cool Paul Anderson avatar.

vdizenzo
06-24-2008, 10:21 PM
What I got most out of the book is a basic template of carbs and protein and when to take them. It also gave specific recommendations on them based on activity and weight. I think some people take for granted the amount of knowledge they have on the subject. A lot of new guys have not the slightest idea. Seriously, a guy at Southside who shall remain nameless actually asked me the protein content of a fish stick when discussing nutrition.

Hazerboy
06-25-2008, 02:01 PM
Take steroids

ROFL!

Lones Green
06-25-2008, 03:11 PM
So you're the one who bought Dave's book. Just kidding Dave.

LOL if i was good with photoshop i'd make it say OVER the bar by Vinnie...

fatass
06-25-2008, 03:12 PM
meditation works to channel your energy try it before and after working out

Guido
06-25-2008, 03:23 PM
So you're the one who bought Dave's book. Just kidding Dave.LOL

Actually I read Dave's book, too. :hello:

Bergs
06-25-2008, 04:24 PM
LOL

Actually I read Dave's book, too. :hello:

Yea, but I was the one that bought it =p

HP666
06-25-2008, 06:26 PM
Hustler & Penthouse

KarstenDD
06-25-2008, 07:22 PM
I get told what to do, I don't have to read.

Dingus
06-25-2008, 07:42 PM
Stop spending money on bras and buy a book.

RhodeHouse
06-25-2008, 10:24 PM
What I got most out of the book is a basic template of carbs and protein and when to take them. It also gave specific recommendations on them based on activity and weight. I think some people take for granted the amount of knowledge they have on the subject. A lot of new guys have not the slightest idea. Seriously, a guy at Southside who shall remain nameless actually asked me the protein content of a fish stick when discussing nutrition.

Who's the jackass that asked about the nutrition content of a fish stick? What a tard. Let me know who it is so I can verbally berate him in front of the crew. Dumba$$!

Jonah
06-26-2008, 06:50 AM
Who's the jackass that asked about the nutrition content of a fish stick? What a tard. Let me know who it is so I can verbally berate him in front of the crew. Dumba$$!

At the rate he is losing bone density he's beginning to look like a fish stick!!! :fart:

drew
06-26-2008, 07:32 AM
I get told what to do, I don't have to read.

CAN you read?

thewicked
06-26-2008, 11:04 AM
anything and everything related to training..the moment you stop wanting to learn is the moment you set the bar as high as it'll go for yourself.

WillNoble
06-26-2008, 11:04 AM
Supertraining
Science and Practice of Strength Training
Starting Strength
Maxcondition
III
and I'll be ordering Louie's book tomorrow

AJ Roberts
06-26-2008, 11:14 AM
I am working my way through the new Block Periodization text by Issurin.

Auburn
06-26-2008, 11:37 AM
Supertraining


The better question would be how many times did it take you to read Supertraining before you understood it all?

I'm still not there yet.

WillNoble
06-26-2008, 11:43 AM
The better question would be how many times did it take you to read Supertraining before you understood it all?

I'm still not there yet.

Not all of that book has applicability to powerlifting, I culled what I wanted out of it...highlighted and read and re-read many times

Big_Byrd52
06-26-2008, 01:14 PM
a better powerlifter?

I just finished Nutrient Timing by John Ivy, Ph.D., and Robert Portman Ph.D. It is a good book to learn the basics of what to take/eat in relation to pre, during, and post workouts. You can find most of the information if you know what you are looking for on the internet. It basically reinforced some nutrition habits I had gotten away from.

Now I am rereading Total Mind Body Training by Jacob H. Jordan, M.D. This is a great book. It's an Eastern Philosophy approach to sports psychology. I recommend this book highly. If you do not employ sports psychology in your training and competing you are missing out.

great book on nutrition! one of the best. this is the method i follow with my own diet.

KarstenDD
06-26-2008, 05:33 PM
CAN you read?

Books on tape my man.

Jonah
06-26-2008, 08:27 PM
Supertraining
Science and Practice of Strength Training
Starting Strength
Maxcondition
III
and I'll be ordering Louie's book tomorrow

Have tried reading supertraining twice now. It makes my head hurt.

Verkhoshasy (sp) is a good read.

I keep a binder with louie's articles in them. It takes a couple of times reading them to figure some of it out.

vdizenzo
06-26-2008, 08:33 PM
great book on nutrition! one of the best. this is the method i follow with my own diet.

Thanks brutha. That is very reassuring. Congrats on the squats. U r a freak!

vdizenzo
06-26-2008, 08:34 PM
Supertraining was a tough one. Good read though. As Rhodes says "Supertraining makes a great one board."