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View Full Version : Done with DE bench



Tennessee Mike
06-25-2008, 01:59 PM
I dont know about any of you,but Ive made better progress with just doin ME and another day for assistance.Sometimes after a max session,I'll do some burn sets.But the more and more I talk to other guys,they feel the same.I started a 12 week template that Rhodes outlined.

ME bench

ME Dead

Bench Assistance

ME squat

Im not saying that a DE day is worthless.Obviously speed work has helped many.For me personally,Id rather save the energy to get stronger.

BFGUITAR
06-25-2008, 02:26 PM
DE does get you stronger... it teaches you POWER. Instead of strength. Both can assist with lifting.

bigmoney
06-25-2008, 02:43 PM
I benefit from it, as do many many other people. Some however feel that assistance work helps with their bench. As long as you know what makes you stronger, do it and don't worry what others are doing. Sounds like your only the right track.

Travis Bell
06-25-2008, 02:50 PM
I think DE bench is every bit as important as ME bench. That said, alot of guys have made great gains without it

fatass
06-25-2008, 03:03 PM
I try to use ME and DE in the same workout... watching Andy Boltons workout tape and he seems to use a mixture of both .... for example he uses a max poundage that he could explode up with.. everyone has there own unique style some people might call my routine "overtraining" but its whats worked for me thus far....

NickW
06-25-2008, 03:06 PM
DE does get you stronger... it teaches you POWER. Instead of strength. Both can assist with lifting.

Agreed! It builds explosive power. I am much stronger when I keep DE days in my routine.

Lones Green
06-25-2008, 03:08 PM
TN mike-

i love DE bench, i do not feel my bench would have the explosiveness it has without DE bench

i've seen some of your posts on EFS, where do you train? i'm from knoxville...

Tennessee Mike
06-25-2008, 04:17 PM
Im trainin at NFC.I use to be a trainer there and its like 2 minutes from my house.Not powerlifter friendly,but we improvise.

Lones Green
06-25-2008, 04:21 PM
Im trainin at NFC.I use to be a trainer there and its like 2 minutes from my house.Not powerlifter friendly,but we improvise.

gotcha. i'm having to drive 3 hours to cell block for a monolift.

Brodiesel
06-25-2008, 07:35 PM
i suppose everyone's different it may turn out that one day the gains taper and DE needs to be thrown back in...

chris mason
06-25-2008, 11:12 PM
I will say what I have said in the past. I believe that DE work's true benefit is derived from it being more of a form of active recovery than the speed work itself having any direct affect on your ability to move heavy loads.

Isaac Wilkins
06-26-2008, 04:25 AM
That's an interesting idea, Chris, and not without merit. I've often said that I've found DE work to be helpful for technique work.

You don't believe in its ability to develop recruitment speed?

WillKuenzel
06-26-2008, 05:13 AM
Like Borris mentioned, I've gotten more out of the technique work from DE bench but I don't feel like I've gotten any real improvement in speed or strength. I feel like I get more out of RE bench than DE. I don't know how this holds true but I feel until I'm more of an elite level powerlifter that DE doesn't quite have the benefits that it's supposed to.

IMO, DE bench is good for beginners just to learn control at faster speeds. This seems to help increase stability and that leads to better strength. For intermediate lifters, I've seen RE do better but like Chris mentioned, in elite athletes, its recovery benefits are the big point.

In talking to other powerlifters, I've also seen guys that say if you're slow it can help but if you tend to be more naturally explosive, it'll have less of an impact. Others will rotate through DE work because of the stress it places on the arms. Something like 2 weeks DE and 2 weeks RE, instead of just the normal 3 week DE waves.

thewicked
06-26-2008, 11:06 AM
it's two halves of a whole..without the DE work which IS bench assistance, your ME days won't progress as fast. Gotta have one in order to break through in the other!

Isaac Wilkins
06-26-2008, 11:42 AM
Like Borris mentioned, I've gotten more out of the technique work from DE bench but I don't feel like I've gotten any real improvement in speed or strength. I feel like I get more out of RE bench than DE. I don't know how this holds true but I feel until I'm more of an elite level powerlifter that DE doesn't quite have the benefits that it's supposed to.

IMO, DE bench is good for beginners just to learn control at faster speeds. This seems to help increase stability and that leads to better strength. For intermediate lifters, I've seen RE do better but like Chris mentioned, in elite athletes, its recovery benefits are the big point.

In talking to other powerlifters, I've also seen guys that say if you're slow it can help but if you tend to be more naturally explosive, it'll have less of an impact. Others will rotate through DE work because of the stress it places on the arms. Something like 2 weeks DE and 2 weeks RE, instead of just the normal 3 week DE waves.

We've trained and talked about this enough so that you know my opinion on it. I've found that I tend to get stronger with RE work over DE work. I do like mixing it in on occasion, but have found that I tend to have pretty good "pop" when I want to anyway.

I will say that I like DE work with bands, and have found that to make me faster or at least give me the illusion of speed because of the eccentric rebound. Hey, if my mind thinks it, it'll happen.

All of the above is particularly in reference to the bench, incidently. I'm slightly more a fan of DE work with lower body exercises but prefer leaping and bounding drills, weighted if necessary, to a lot of DE box squats. Again, if doing DE box squats and deads then it becomes more technique practice for me (which isn't bad).

Ben Moore
06-26-2008, 12:15 PM
Is this Mike Nease?

drew
06-26-2008, 12:30 PM
If it's not working for you, by all means drop it.

Tennessee Mike
06-26-2008, 01:57 PM
After years of bodybuilding,I always did rep work and got stronger.Whether it was weight or reps,I rarely hit plateaus.I understand the concept of speed bench but as someone who trains Raw,Im thinkin that ME,Boards,and some rep work will be just fine.

chris mason
06-26-2008, 09:59 PM
That's an interesting idea, Chris, and not without merit. I've often said that I've found DE work to be helpful for technique work.

You don't believe in its ability to develop recruitment speed?

I don't think it does much, no. I think a more ballistic plyometric form of training would do moreso for that end. That said, I think that kind of training a bit too dangerous for continuous use.

Well, let me clarify, I don't think it does much for recruitment speed if you are talking about upping your 1RM. In other words, it will make you faster with lighter loads, but I don't think that translates to speed with really heavy loads in the 90+% range.

Then again, I could be all wrong...:)

kingkong51
06-27-2008, 01:45 AM
De Days Build that explolisive speed for the heavy loads

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
06-27-2008, 08:36 AM
I dont know about any of you,but Ive made better progress with just doin ME and another day for assistance.Sometimes after a max session,I'll do some burn sets.But the more and more I talk to other guys,they feel the same.I started a 12 week template that Rhodes outlined.

ME bench

ME Dead

Bench Assistance

ME squat

Im not saying that a DE day is worthless.Obviously speed work has helped many.For me personally,Id rather save the energy to get stronger.


Different strokes, different folks:) I don't use a DE day, but only a ME day.

TRAIN HARD

"BIG WILLIE" J.T. HALL
GOT MAXIMUM MASS STACK?
http://www.youtube.com/user/NASAKYCHAIRMAN

bigbadwolfe
06-27-2008, 06:37 PM
I have not really trained a REAL DE day in a long time. Well I have but not for a whole cycle. If oyu look back at my log most of my DE days seem more like BB days. I'm looking at switching back and focusing on using swinging chains to form a Chaotic State to start help rebuild my stability.

Eric Downey
06-28-2008, 12:55 PM
My question is how long have you been doing DE work and have you been doing it correctly. The biggest mistake is that most people go to heavy on DE days. Why not post some vids of what you do for your DE and how you do it. Then try giving the changes that are suggested 6 weeks before you stop doing it all.

Isaac Wilkins
06-28-2008, 05:07 PM
I don't think it does much, no. I think a more ballistic plyometric form of training would do moreso for that end. That said, I think that kind of training a bit too dangerous for continuous use.

Well, let me clarify, I don't think it does much for recruitment speed if you are talking about upping your 1RM. In other words, it will make you faster with lighter loads, but I don't think that translates to speed with really heavy loads in the 90+% range.

Then again, I could be all wrong...:)

Interesting. See, as I posted before, I like doing DE stuff for lower body through more plyometric work (ie jumping and bounding) rather than pure work. That's similar to your idea of a more ballistic form of training. What do you think about bench throws, plyo push-ups off blocks, or heavy(ish) medicine ball throws?

I understand that my goals and the goals of my clients are more athletic-based than pure powerlifting, but I think that most of the mechanisms are the same.

Eric Downey
06-28-2008, 06:49 PM
i like the other stuff for DE work other than the trational work. Sleds, pushing cars, ect.. It just makes you work muscle groups that you can work together any other way.