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View Full Version : hardgainers vs easy gainers????



MattBag
07-10-2008, 08:59 PM
lately I've been trying to bulk up quite a bit since i finsihed my cycle of RESULTS which worked out very well. And I quite honestly dont understand the concept of a hardgainer... I believe that there are people who no matter what they eat cannot gain weight. So those people usally take mass/weight gainers. Now for me my metabolism is really slow and i could gain weight like nothing fat is easy but muscle is not easy to put on...

Am I considered a "hardgainer" if its hard for me to put on muscle. or does that term just refer to the skinny teenage kids whose bodies need every bit of food to grow? and if for me its easy to gain fat then will taking in an extra 850 calroies from a mass gainig shake just make me fat or will it help add in the muscle bulding process over time. I really hope this "Up your mass" I bought wont just all go to my gut which most of the food i eat goes, weather or not its rich healthy food or greesy burgers and fries....

RedSpikeyThing
07-10-2008, 09:02 PM
There's no such thing as a hardgainer. Only undereaters.

MattBag
07-10-2008, 09:18 PM
well i never understood what food goes to muscle development and what food get stored as fat. how can i eat more then mataince and be sure it wont be fat and that it will be muscle???

Phenom
07-10-2008, 10:43 PM
There's no such thing as a hardgainer. Only undereaters.

So there's no such thing as a slow metabolism either? Just over eaters?

JohnnyBrown
07-10-2008, 10:54 PM
well i never understood what food goes to muscle development and what food get stored as fat. how can i eat more then mataince and be sure it wont be fat and that it will be muscle???

It's tough to go on a bulk without gaining any fat, as it would take a very long time. Just eat 10-20 percent over your maintenance, and adjust accordingly if you stop gaining. And if you're unhappy with your gains in fat, eat 10-20 percent under your maintenance.

Also it helps to be eating food in high protein, as eating 3k cals in gummy bears wont do much for muscle gain


So there's no such thing as a slow metabolism either? Just over eaters?

I don't think you can really imply that from what he said.

deeder
07-10-2008, 10:56 PM
So there's no such thing as a slow metabolism either? Just over eaters?

Basically, yes.

MattBag
07-10-2008, 11:18 PM
well all I'm trying to say is basiclly anything over mataince for me turns into fat.... Yes over time i eventually get a bit stronger but i notice that when i'm the strongest i'm the heaviest and fatest... I cut some weight and started to look better but now i'm gonna gain it all back just so I can bench the same as before. Am I just bulking and cutting wrong or do i just suck?

MattBag
07-11-2008, 02:46 AM
I think I'm just naturally fat. should I be doing alot more cardio or eating alot more then my mantaince, cause i know if i eat about 1000 calories extra aday and eat like 4000 there is no way i'll gain any muscle. I can only eat so much healthy food and protien shakes . the rest is all just whatever i can find for my meals. basiclly I try to avoid soda and refined sugar (don't know if brown sugar counts) and i do eat the ocasional candy or sip on some soda but who doesn't. If there is anybody that can explain to me how to eat excess calories and not get fat that would be great otherwise i just wont ever understand.

RedSpikeyThing
07-11-2008, 06:06 AM
So there's no such thing as a slow metabolism either? Just over eaters?
more or less. I meant what I said more as "don't use your metabolism as an excuse" and I think the same thing applies to people with slow metabolisms.

well i never understood what food goes to muscle development and what food get stored as fat. how can i eat more then mataince and be sure it wont be fat and that it will be muscle???
If you are gaining weight, you are going to gain fat. It's a matter what ratio you gain that fast in, though. Just so we can get some numbers to talk about, how much weight did you gain/lose and over how long of a time period?

RhodeHouse
07-11-2008, 07:26 AM
Hardgainers v. easy gainers?

1. A pair of balls
2. A goal in mind
3. nothing will get in the way of achieving that goal

If you train properly, you're going to gain some muscle, but, you're going to gain some fat. It's part of the deal. No one ever build any appreciable size and muscle mass worrying about gaining fat. The go hand in hand. No matter what anyone says, you have to get fat to get muscular. Look at off-season bodybuilders. They gte so fat. It's beautiful!

Figure out what your goal is. Then, do everything you need to do in order to reach that goal. Hell, I've put on 35lbs since April 1st. And, I'm not a tiny little guy to begin with. I started at 285lbs. Now I'm about 320lbs. If you're anything less than 250lbs or so, gaining weight is easy! Eat and eat, then eat some more. When you have to buy new pants and shirts, keep eating. When you start to feel crappy, do a little more cardio, but keep eating.

1. Have a goal
2. Understand what it's going to take to achieve that goal
3. Don't quit until you reach that goal
4. Reassess your goals and pick a new goal
5. Repeat as necessary

MillerTime1485
07-11-2008, 08:31 AM
I have no idea whether or not this whole hardgainer/easygainer debate holds any truth.. but I do know that I bulk real quick and gain weight pretty fast when I want. Just eat more then you usually would, probably a smart idea to start tracking calories if you don’t already and go 500+ over maintenance.

Phenom
07-12-2008, 09:14 PM
Basically, yes.

Obviously there can be a number of different perspectives on what is considered a slow or fast metabolism, but to say there is no such thing as a slow metabolism comparatively speaking is just plain silly.

jAy_Dub
07-12-2008, 09:54 PM
There's no such thing as a hardgainer. Only undereaters.

I disagree. Its called an ectomorph. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, its going to be harder for an ectomorph to gain muscle, hence the term "hardgainer." Obviously with more food its possible, but it will still be a slower process than a meso, or endo.

MattBag
07-13-2008, 02:45 AM
This is all good stuff to hear guys but so far eating more often and more and another protein shake a day is feeling good and so far no noticeable chub. goin strong an extra 500 cals aday for the last 5 days. this could be a good thing

RedSpikeyThing
07-13-2008, 08:57 AM
I disagree. Its called an ectomorph. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, its going to be harder for an ectomorph to gain muscle, hence the term "hardgainer." Obviously with more food its possible, but it will still be a slower process than a meso, or endo.


more or less. I meant what I said more as "don't use your metabolism as an excuse" and I think the same thing applies to people with slow metabolisms.


Harder yes, but many people use "hardgainer" as an excuse to be skinny.

Reko
07-13-2008, 09:43 AM
I used to be a hardgainer. Then I discovered food. Now I am an easy gainer!
:thumbup:

bill
07-13-2008, 10:12 AM
I disagree. Its called an ectomorph. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, its going to be harder for an ectomorph to gain muscle, hence the term "hardgainer." Obviously with more food its possible, but it will still be a slower process than a meso, or endo.

I don't think ecto types gain slower, I could be wrong. You just start out more skinny or what not. I do know for me, I was very skinny to start and always gained slow. As I was getting a little older 20 or so there was a period where I really grew quite fast. There are to many possible reasons why, but maybe it's some light at the end of the tunnel for some of the younger guys to keep chugging along. Now I've become fat and have to actually learn how to eat more healthy again.

dumbbell
07-13-2008, 10:20 AM
I would say the term hard gainer applies to 90% of us. The remaining few are the genetically gifted who put on muscle no matter what crappy training program they use.


The rest of us have to work hard to add muscle. Whether it's working hard not to gain too much fat or working hard to gain any weight at all. Nothing good comes without a price.

Good thing eating and training are fun.

jAy_Dub
07-13-2008, 12:43 PM
I don't think ecto types gain slower, I could be wrong. You just start out more skinny or what not. I do know for me, I was very skinny to start and always gained slow. As I was getting a little older 20 or so there was a period where I really grew quite fast. There are to many possible reasons why, but maybe it's some light at the end of the tunnel for some of the younger guys to keep chugging along. Now I've become fat and have to actually learn how to eat more healthy again.

Heres some quick outlines of each. Most people are not just one, but a combination of the 3.

The ECTOMORPH

* Definitive "Hard Gainer"
* Delicate Built Body
* Flat Chest
* Fragile
* Lean
* Lightly Muscled
* Small Shouldered
* Takes Longer to Gain Muscle
* Thin

The MESOMORPH

* Athletic
* Hard Body
* Hourglass Shaped (Female)
* Rectangular Shaped (Male)
* Mature Muscle Mass
* Muscular Body
* Excellent Posture
* Gains Muscle Easily
* Gains Fat More Easily Than Ectomorphs
* Thick Skin

The ENDOMORPH

* Soft Body
* Underdeveloped Muscles
* Round Physique
* Weight Loss is Difficult
* Gains Muscle Easily Like the Mesomorph.


heres the link. http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bodytypeinformation.html

RhodeHouse
07-13-2008, 02:28 PM
To all of you guys using genetics, body-typing (ecto, endo, meso), and all the other BS - grow a pair of balls and start eating and lifting. Genetics has nothing to do with it. It's called willpower and a desire to achieve your goals no matter what gets in your way. Age doesn't matter. Height doesn't matter. Genetics don't matter. Reach down between your legs and squeeze. If you find a pair of nuts, use them and stop crying about why you suck in the gym.

Marfans Syndrome

[edit] Symptoms
Although there are no unique signs or symptoms of Marfan syndrome, the constellation of long limbs, dislocated lenses, and aortic root dilation is sufficient to make the diagnosis with confidence. There are more than thirty other clinical features that are variably associated with the syndrome most involving the skeleton, skin, and joints. There is a great deal of clinical variability even within families that carry the identical mutation.


[edit] Skeletal system
The most readily visible signs are associated with the skeletal system. Many individuals with Marfan Syndrome grow to above average height. Some have long slender limbs with fingers and toes that are also abnormally long and slender (arachnodactyly). This long, slender body habitus and long, slender limbs are known as dolichostenomelia. An individual's arms may be disproportionately long, with thin, weak wrists. In addition to affecting height and limb proportions, Marfan syndrome can produce other skeletal signs. Abnormal curvature of the spine (scoliosis) is common, as is abnormal indentation (pectus excavatum) or protrusion (pectus carinatum) of the sternum. Other signs include abnormal joint flexibility, a high palate, malocclusions, flat feet, stooped shoulders, unexplained stretch marks on the skin and thin wrists. Some people with Marfan have speech disorders resulting from symptomatic high palates and small jaws.


[edit] Eyes
Marfan syndrome can also seriously affect the eyes and vision. Nearsightedness and astigmatism are common, but farsightedness can also result. Subluxation (dislocation) of the crystalline lens in one or both eyes (ectopia lentis) also occurs and may be detected by an ophthalmologist or optometrist using a slit-lamp biomicroscope. In Marfan's the dislocation is typically superotemporal whereas in the similar condition homocystinuria, the dislocation is inferonasal. Sometimes eye problems appear only after the weakening of connective tissue has caused detachment of the retina.[12] Early onset glaucoma can be another complication.


[edit] Cardiovascular system
The most serious conditions associated with Marfan syndrome involve the cardiovascular system. Undue fatigue, shortness of breath, heart palpitations, racing heartbeats, or pain in the left chest, back, shoulder, or arm, can bring a person into the doctor's office. Cold arms, hands and feet can also be seriously linked to marfan syndrome because of a loss of blood circulation. A heart murmur heard on a stethoscope, an abnormal reading on an electrocardiogram, or symptoms of angina can lead a doctor to order an echocardiogram. This can reveal signs of leakage or prolapse of the mitral or aortic valves that control the flow of blood through the heart. (See mitral valve prolapse.) However, the major sign that would lead a doctor to consider an underlying condition is a dilated aorta or an aortic aneurysm. Sometimes, no heart problems are apparent until the weakening of the connective tissue in the ascending aorta causes an aortic aneurysm or even aortic dissection.

Because of the underlying connective tissue abnormalities that cause Marfan syndrome, there is an increased incidence of dehiscence of prosthetic mitral valve.[13] Care should be taken to attempt repair of damaged heart valves rather than replacement.

During pregnancy, even in the absence of preconceived cardiovascular abnormality, women with Marfan syndrome are at significant risk of acute aortic dissection, which can be lethal if untreated. For this reason, women with Marfan syndrome should receive a thorough assessment prior to conception, and echocardiography should be performed every 6-10 weeks during pregnancy, to assess the aortic root diameter. Most women however tolerate pregnancy well and safe vaginal delivery is possible.[14]


[edit] Lungs
Marfan syndrome is a risk factor for spontaneous pneumothorax. In spontaneous unilateral pneumothorax, air escapes from a lung and occupies the pleural space between the chest wall and a lung. The lung becomes partially compressed or collapsed. This can cause pain, shortness of breath, cyanosis, and, if not treated, death. Marfan syndrome has also been associated with sleep apnea and idiopathic obstructive lung disease.


[edit] Central nervous system
Another condition that can reduce the quality of life for an individual, though not life-threatening, is dural ectasia, the weakening of the connective tissue of the dural sac, the membrane that encases the spinal cord. Dural ectasia can be present for a long time without producing any noticeable symptoms. Symptoms that can occur are lower back pain, leg pain, abdominal pain, other neurological symptoms in the lower extremities, or headaches. Such symptoms usually diminish when the individual lies flat on his or her back. These types of symptoms might lead a doctor to order an X-ray of the lower spine. Dural ectasia is usually not visible on an X-ray in the early phases. A worsening of symptoms and the lack of finding any other cause should eventually lead a doctor to order an upright MRI of the lower spine. Dural ectasia that has progressed to the point of causing these symptoms would appear in an upright MRI image as a dilated pouch that is wearing away at the lumbar vertebrae.[12] Other spinal issues associated with Marfan include degenerative disk disease and spinal cysts.


I'm 6'4" 320lbs, with a contest squat of 930 and deadlift of 755. I played college and professional football. So, don't cry about being an ecto, meso, endo or whatever BS you're using to tell yourself why you can't do it.

Eat more, take drugs, find better training partners - do whatever you have to do to reach your goals and stop crying!

jAy_Dub
07-13-2008, 05:20 PM
To all of you guys using genetics, body-typing (ecto, endo, meso), and all the other BS - grow a pair of balls and start eating and lifting. Genetics has nothing to do with it. It's called willpower and a desire to achieve your goals no matter what gets in your way. Age doesn't matter. Height doesn't matter. Genetics don't matter. Reach down between your legs and squeeze. If you find a pair of nuts, use them and stop crying about why you suck in the gym.

Marfans Syndrome

[edit] Symptoms
Although there are no unique signs or symptoms of Marfan syndrome, the constellation of long limbs, dislocated lenses, and aortic root dilation is sufficient to make the diagnosis with confidence. There are more than thirty other clinical features that are variably associated with the syndrome most involving the skeleton, skin, and joints. There is a great deal of clinical variability even within families that carry the identical mutation.


[edit] Skeletal system
The most readily visible signs are associated with the skeletal system. Many individuals with Marfan Syndrome grow to above average height. Some have long slender limbs with fingers and toes that are also abnormally long and slender (arachnodactyly). This long, slender body habitus and long, slender limbs are known as dolichostenomelia. An individual's arms may be disproportionately long, with thin, weak wrists. In addition to affecting height and limb proportions, Marfan syndrome can produce other skeletal signs. Abnormal curvature of the spine (scoliosis) is common, as is abnormal indentation (pectus excavatum) or protrusion (pectus carinatum) of the sternum. Other signs include abnormal joint flexibility, a high palate, malocclusions, flat feet, stooped shoulders, unexplained stretch marks on the skin and thin wrists. Some people with Marfan have speech disorders resulting from symptomatic high palates and small jaws.


[edit] Eyes
Marfan syndrome can also seriously affect the eyes and vision. Nearsightedness and astigmatism are common, but farsightedness can also result. Subluxation (dislocation) of the crystalline lens in one or both eyes (ectopia lentis) also occurs and may be detected by an ophthalmologist or optometrist using a slit-lamp biomicroscope. In Marfan's the dislocation is typically superotemporal whereas in the similar condition homocystinuria, the dislocation is inferonasal. Sometimes eye problems appear only after the weakening of connective tissue has caused detachment of the retina.[12] Early onset glaucoma can be another complication.


[edit] Cardiovascular system
The most serious conditions associated with Marfan syndrome involve the cardiovascular system. Undue fatigue, shortness of breath, heart palpitations, racing heartbeats, or pain in the left chest, back, shoulder, or arm, can bring a person into the doctor's office. Cold arms, hands and feet can also be seriously linked to marfan syndrome because of a loss of blood circulation. A heart murmur heard on a stethoscope, an abnormal reading on an electrocardiogram, or symptoms of angina can lead a doctor to order an echocardiogram. This can reveal signs of leakage or prolapse of the mitral or aortic valves that control the flow of blood through the heart. (See mitral valve prolapse.) However, the major sign that would lead a doctor to consider an underlying condition is a dilated aorta or an aortic aneurysm. Sometimes, no heart problems are apparent until the weakening of the connective tissue in the ascending aorta causes an aortic aneurysm or even aortic dissection.

Because of the underlying connective tissue abnormalities that cause Marfan syndrome, there is an increased incidence of dehiscence of prosthetic mitral valve.[13] Care should be taken to attempt repair of damaged heart valves rather than replacement.

During pregnancy, even in the absence of preconceived cardiovascular abnormality, women with Marfan syndrome are at significant risk of acute aortic dissection, which can be lethal if untreated. For this reason, women with Marfan syndrome should receive a thorough assessment prior to conception, and echocardiography should be performed every 6-10 weeks during pregnancy, to assess the aortic root diameter. Most women however tolerate pregnancy well and safe vaginal delivery is possible.[14]


[edit] Lungs
Marfan syndrome is a risk factor for spontaneous pneumothorax. In spontaneous unilateral pneumothorax, air escapes from a lung and occupies the pleural space between the chest wall and a lung. The lung becomes partially compressed or collapsed. This can cause pain, shortness of breath, cyanosis, and, if not treated, death. Marfan syndrome has also been associated with sleep apnea and idiopathic obstructive lung disease.


[edit] Central nervous system
Another condition that can reduce the quality of life for an individual, though not life-threatening, is dural ectasia, the weakening of the connective tissue of the dural sac, the membrane that encases the spinal cord. Dural ectasia can be present for a long time without producing any noticeable symptoms. Symptoms that can occur are lower back pain, leg pain, abdominal pain, other neurological symptoms in the lower extremities, or headaches. Such symptoms usually diminish when the individual lies flat on his or her back. These types of symptoms might lead a doctor to order an X-ray of the lower spine. Dural ectasia is usually not visible on an X-ray in the early phases. A worsening of symptoms and the lack of finding any other cause should eventually lead a doctor to order an upright MRI of the lower spine. Dural ectasia that has progressed to the point of causing these symptoms would appear in an upright MRI image as a dilated pouch that is wearing away at the lumbar vertebrae.[12] Other spinal issues associated with Marfan include degenerative disk disease and spinal cysts.


I'm 6'4" 320lbs, with a contest squat of 930 and deadlift of 755. I played college and professional football. So, don't cry about being an ecto, meso, endo or whatever BS you're using to tell yourself why you can't do it.

Eat more, take drugs, find better training partners - do whatever you have to do to reach your goals and stop crying!

lol I'm assuming this is directed at me. No matter how you look at it, as being complete bs or not, ecto, meso, and endo have a big part in how far you will get in the bodybuilding sport(even though most here would consider themselves powerlifters). This is no excuse, its the damn truth. For some people, making it in this sport is just not realistic, no matter how much dedication and drive they have.

This is not me crying, I have goals that I WILL achieve. I've already achieved many goals (starting out at 165 and getting up to 255). I think anyone who wants it bad enough and can handle sacrificing things to reach their goals can do it, but once you get to a certain level, its going to be genetics that determine the rest. My goal is to someday get to that level.

RedSpikeyThing
07-13-2008, 06:55 PM
l I think anyone who wants it bad enough and can handle sacrificing things to reach their goals can do it, but once you get to a certain level, its going to be genetics that determine the rest. My goal is to someday get to that level.
I agree, but if you've hit that point you're going to be in the top 99.999% of bodybuilders. Maybe not Mr. Olympia, but certainly the level down from that.

bill
07-13-2008, 08:57 PM
Jay Dub Mostly just saying I'm not sure one person would gain muscle or lose fat a whole lot faster than others..now that would be some scientific studies (I guess lol) ..If they all know what they're doing and what it takes to make changes. Sure some people it comes easier to than others, that is a given. Someone posted about the body ecto, meso, endo stuff being kinda bb myth? I know you clearly see all three types.

I don't know what it matters either way, hardly anyone is satisfied with there results. I don't think anyone benching 500 pds or with a ton muscle would say it came easy. I don't care for the term hardgainer, only because you make yourself believe you can't gain. On the flipside if your smart you can use it to be more focused on all of your training.

RhodeHouse
07-13-2008, 09:13 PM
lol I'm assuming this is directed at me. No matter how you look at it, as being complete bs or not, ecto, meso, and endo have a big part in how far you will get in the bodybuilding sport(even though most here would consider themselves powerlifters). This is no excuse, its the damn truth. For some people, making it in this sport is just not realistic, no matter how much dedication and drive they have.

This is not me crying, I have goals that I WILL achieve. I've already achieved many goals (starting out at 165 and getting up to 255). I think anyone who wants it bad enough and can handle sacrificing things to reach their goals can do it, but once you get to a certain level, its going to be genetics that determine the rest. My goal is to someday get to that level.

Actually, not just at you, but you obviously took it to heart. I guess I just don't let genetics get in my way. There's always a way. Louie Simmons once told me, "If you don't have the genetics, get the generics." With the drugs out there, you can do anything, and that my friend, is the damn truth. And, let's face it, bodybuilding today is about how much stuff you can jack yourself up with. Save your money and find a good drug dealer, and your genetics will no longer be an issue.

Phenom
07-13-2008, 10:20 PM
It seems like most people on this forum, in an effort to show how dedicated/driven/determined/strong-willed they are and how weak and pathetic less successful gym-goers are, have lost every ounce of being a realist and now just say eating, lifting, and will power can get you anywhere. That's not true. Like jaydub said, body types and genetics aren't excuses, it's the truth. It's just how the ****ing world works.

To say, "I'm an ectomorph, therefore I will never be muscular" is an excuse.

Saying that genetics can definitely make it easier for one person than another to be successful in the gym is perfectly true.

samj
07-14-2008, 06:02 AM
am happy to say im a mesomorph or is it just hard work or both???

Willie
07-14-2008, 08:05 AM
I disagree. Its called an ectomorph. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, its going to be harder for an ectomorph to gain muscle, hence the term "hardgainer." Obviously with more food its possible, but it will still be a slower process than a meso, or endo.

I agree. The difference in the number of fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers is, unfortunately, genetically pre-determined, and that has a direct correlation to hypertrophy. That doesn't mean that an ectomorph can't gain size, it's just that his size gains are going to be minimal compared to a mesomorph at the same level of training.

I'm bigger than my brothers because I train. Period. That said, I will never be as big as the pro bodybuilders, even if I wanted to because I'm an ectomorph, more suited to events like cycling and distance running.

Plus, at 40 years of age, short of taking HGH, I've got every single muscle cell I am ever going to have. I can make those cells bigger, but I can't increase their number.


It seems like most people on this forum, in an effort to show how dedicated/driven/determined/strong-willed they are and how weak and pathetic less successful gym-goers are, have lost every ounce of being a realist and now just say eating, lifting, and will power can get you anywhere. That's not true. Like jaydub said, body types and genetics aren't excuses, it's the truth. It's just how the ****ing world works.

To say, "I'm an ectomorph, therefore I will never be muscular" is an excuse.

Saying that genetics can definitely make it easier for one person than another to be successful in the gym is perfectly true.

Precisely. And since "success in the gym" is determined by the individual, it's up to you to decide what it means to be a success. But, you have to be realistic. I'm a skinny guy. I can become less skinny with training, but I will never be as big as a Ron Coleman or Arnold or Dorian.

RhodeHouse
07-14-2008, 10:10 AM
It seems like most people on this forum, in an effort to show how dedicated/driven/determined/strong-willed they are and how weak and pathetic less successful gym-goers are, have lost every ounce of being a realist and now just say eating, lifting, and will power can get you anywhere. That's not true. Like jaydub said, body types and genetics aren't excuses, it's the truth. It's just how the ****ing world works.

To say, "I'm an ectomorph, therefore I will never be muscular" is an excuse.

Saying that genetics can definitely make it easier for one person than another to be successful in the gym is perfectly true.

Sorry boys. It's just a bunch of excuses as to why you suck at life. "I can't do it because my genetics are bad." Cry me a river. My comments were not trying to belittle anyones efforts, rather to show them that the mind can overcome any obstacle. If you really think you can't do it, you won't. By looking at your stats, it's obvious that you keep telling yourself that you can't.

I really don't care about your success in the gym, or life, for that matter. It's of no consequence to me. But, having been the skinny kid who never thought he'd get big, and now, being the jacked MFer that gets stares when I walk into restaurants - I can tell you from personal experience, that it's all in your mind. I've been lifting for almost as long as you've been alive. I know a thing or two that you don't. If it makes you guys feel better about yourselves to make excuses for why you're small in a big man's game, go for it. I'll jump on the bandwagon with you.

Don't worry about it little guys. You can't get big and strong because your genetics suck. In fact, don't even blame yourselves. Blame your parents. After all, if your mom found a bigger guy to be your dad, you might not be so small. Actually, it's your dad's fault for not being genetically gifted enough. Blame dad. He really screwed you over.

Or, maybe, you could just... No, you won't do what you're told by bigger and better lifters. That would mean that you'd actually have to be held accountable for your results. If you don't achieve your goals, you have no one to blame but yourselves. I know that concept is foreign to some of you younger guys. I guess it's easier to use genetics and blame someone else for why you can't reach your goals.

RhodeHouse
07-14-2008, 10:16 AM
I agree. The difference in the number of fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers is, unfortunately, genetically pre-determined, and that has a direct correlation to hypertrophy. That doesn't mean that an ectomorph can't gain size, it's just that his size gains are going to be minimal compared to a mesomorph at the same level of training.

I'm bigger than my brothers because I train. Period. That said, I will never be as big as the pro bodybuilders, even if I wanted to because I'm an ectomorph, more suited to events like cycling and distance running.

Plus, at 40 years of age, short of taking HGH, I've got every single muscle cell I am ever going to have. I can make those cells bigger, but I can't increase their numbers.

Precisely. And since "success in the gym" is determined by the individual, it's up to you to decide what it means to be a success. But, you have to be realistic. I'm a skinny guy. I can become less skinny with training, but I will never be as big as a Ron Coleman or Arnold or Dorian.


Ronnie, Arnold, and Dorian? So jacked to the gills on steroids and growth. In today's world, you can do anything you want. If you really think these guys built those bodies without massive amounts of drugs, you're insane and clearly in a serious state of denial. Of the 3, I'd guess that Arnold took the least amount of drugs. Nevertheless, you've seen him in his speedo on the beach on the cover of People (or some magazine like that) and you've seen Sly Stallone in Rambo and Rocky Balboa - drugs man. They work.

Anything is possible with the help of a chemistry kit and some balls.

ehubbard
07-14-2008, 10:40 AM
I think you should forget about worrying if you are a hardgainer (or whatever else you want to call it) and figure out if you have the mental toughness to succeed. The fact that you are looking for a reason beyond your control (i.e genetics) as a reason for your lack of sucess in gaining muscle would lead me to believe that you need to work on your mentatility above all else (i.e grow a pair). So what if you are a hardgainer (if that even exists), you can't do a thing about it so focus on what you can (training, diet and supplements).

HP666
07-14-2008, 10:54 AM
Ronnie, Arnold, and Dorian? So jacked to the gills on steroids and growth. In today's world, you can do anything you want. If you really think these guys built those bodies without massive amounts of drugs, you're insane and clearly in a serious state of denial. Of the 3, I'd guess that Arnold took the least amount of drugs. Nevertheless, you've seen him in his speedo on the beach on the cover of People (or some magazine like that) and you've seen Sly Stallone in Rambo and Rocky Balboa - drugs man. They work.

Anything is possible with the help of a chemistry kit and some balls.

I couldn't agree more. Have you taken a look at Arnold lately like Rhodes said?? As a matter of fact, take a look at Dorian Yates today: http://www.dorianyates.net/
Click on the "YOU AND DORIAN" link and look at the pics. He looks an awful lot like Lance Armstrong now, doesn't he? Speaking of being "suited" for cycling.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/bigken666/DRUMS/TshirtsDYblack-.gif

HP666
07-14-2008, 11:18 AM
Unless you have some type of disability, genetics mean nothing. Sure you may have a certain body type, but then you need to adjust your training and diet to meet your goals. But it' just SOOOOOO much easier for some skinny guy to say, "well gee, I'm an ectomorph, so I can never be built like a brick ****house, so I'll just be skinny. Rather than plan a good diet, eat like a horse and lift his balls off and get bigger. Nutrition is everything to gain size, I don't care what BS body type you are. You want to gain mass, you need to consume calories, period. Now can you get as big as Dorian was; probably not without drugs, just look at that picture above, but you can put on size and strength by eating right(a lot) and working hard instead of making excuses.

Same goes for the Endomorph. "Well gee, I'm predispositioned to be a fat ****, so I'll always be fat." Another excuse for being a lazy fat **** who doesn't want to eat right, doesn't want to bust ass in the gym, and certainly doesn't want to drag a sled, push a Prowler, or god forbid, maybe even....just go for a walk.

This **** just makes me laugh how people defend the excuses as not being excuses. It's all about commitment and how committed you really are.

jAy_Dub
07-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Actually, not just at you, but you obviously took it to heart. I guess I just don't let genetics get in my way. There's always a way. Louie Simmons once told me, "If you don't have the genetics, get the generics." With the drugs out there, you can do anything, and that my friend, is the damn truth. And, let's face it, bodybuilding today is about how much stuff you can jack yourself up with. Save your money and find a good drug dealer, and your genetics will no longer be an issue.

No need to tell me, I've already got myself good dealers :thumbup: The thing is, the drugs available to me are the same ones available to all the other genetic freaks out there.

Willie
07-14-2008, 06:58 PM
Sorry boys. It's just a bunch of excuses as to why you suck at life.

Speak for yourself, jerk wad.

I don't know what in my post made you think that I THINK I suck at life, because I don't.

I'm quite successful, not jacked on steroids and doing just fine with how big I am. If you think that you can simply disregard genetic limitations then you are fooling yourself. Some people are taller than you, some people have more muscle, some guys have bigger dicks. It's a fact of life. Quit trying to be such an internet bad guy

I'm though with this conversation. Phenom was right when he said
"It seems like most people on this forum, in an effort to show how dedicated/driven/determined/strong-willed they are and how weak and pathetic less successful gym-goers are, have lost every ounce of being a realist and now just say eating, lifting, and will power can get you anywhere. That's not true. Like jaydub said, body types and genetics aren't excuses, it's the truth. It's just how the ****ing world works."

HP666
07-14-2008, 07:10 PM
You just better be careful Mister, at 6-4, 205 you're dangerously close to womanhood.


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/bigken666/350px-Pipe_cleaner_white.jpg

Willie
07-14-2008, 07:13 PM
You just better be careful Mister, at 6-4, 205 you're dangerously close to womanhood.


http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/bigken666/350px-Pipe_cleaner_white.jpg

I'm fast and strong.

I did 16 pull-ups this morning (unweighted, sorry). How many did you do?

RhodeHouse
07-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Speak for yourself, jerk wad.

I don't know what in my post made you think that I THINK I suck at life, because I don't.

I'm quite successful, not jacked on steroids and doing just fine with how big I am. If you think that you can simply disregard genetic limitations then you are fooling yourself. Some people are taller than you, some people have more muscle, some guys have bigger dicks. It's a fact of life. Quit trying to be such an internet bad guy

I'm though with this conversation. Phenom was right when he said

WOW! Someone is sensitive. Must've struck a cord, jerk wad. As for your gentics and your comment about "genetic limitations" look at these videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-cdD3MKKwo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vBlBQ7qbrek

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3gM0yio6xbc


Go back and read about Marfans. I posted it earlier in the thread. Genetics? Like I said before, you suck at life. Truth hurts.

Willie
07-14-2008, 09:14 PM
WOW! Someone is sensitive. Must've struck a cord, jerk wad. As for your gentics and your comment about "genetic limitations" look at these videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-cdD3MKKwo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vBlBQ7qbrek

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3gM0yio6xbc


Go back and read about Marfans. I posted it earlier in the thread. Genetics? Like I said before, you suck at life. Truth hurts.

Very impressive, Matt, way more than I can lift. You have done well in your chosen field.

Where's your shirt that reads "Dupont: Better living through chemistry?"
Pharmaceuticals sure do a body good.

And no, you didn't "strike a cord," (it's 'chord', by the way, with an 'h") you pissed me off with your "better-than-thou" crap that I see from a lot of powerlifters and bodybuilders.

I also worry that some kid's going to read your posts and actually take your advice and end up taking drugs "just" to make himself bigger and lift more weights.

Besides, it's no so much that I "suck at life" that your attitude rankled, it's your hyper-macho attitude that you're better than everyone else simply because you weigh twice as much most people and can lift more weight.

Your off-hand dismissal of scientific fact (somatypes, muscle fiber differences) as being "an excuse" is intellectually offensive.

Whether you believe it or not, there are genetic differences in people.

Now, you yourself said one must have goals.
Mine is simple: Get stronger and faster.

However, I intend to do it with what God gave me, without drugs, and without sacrificing other priorities in my life.

Knowing that, I accept that I will never be as strong or as big as you.

It's a combination of genetics and goals that drives my pursuits.

How old were you when you earned your black belt?
How fast was your last marathon?
What was your time for an Ironman-distance Triathlon?
Hell, how fast can run the the 50?
I lost my last MMA fight, but I did get in the ring. Did you?

Did I lose because of genetics?

Nope. I lost because my opponent was simply better than I was. He trained harder, he was more dedicated, he had more technical skill. He was stronger than me, and it played a role, but I don't blame my somatype for his strength advantage.

But, for strictly size-gaining, and strength-gaining, there are differences and there are limits, unless you're willing to resort to drugs (which I am not, but your posts have already stated quite clearly you're willing to do).

So, yeah.....I suck at life.

No, I just suck at powerlifting and body-building.
Just like you suck at marathons and triathlons.

And you know what? I don't care.
I am not going to use any means, legal or ethical or not, just to get bigger because being bigger doesn't mean that much to me.

In fact, in my goal to compete and finish a multi-discipline adventure race, size can be a hindrance.

Now, I know full well that my times in the marathon, the number of pull-ups that I can do, my resting heart rate, qualifying for the eco-challenge, all that crap, doesn't mean anything to you.

Just like the amount of weight you can hoist off the ground doesn't mean anything to me.

It doesn't mean I (or the others here like me who have other fitness goals) "suck at life."

It means you suck at looking beyond your short-sighted "bigger is better" attitude.


Oh, and by the way, people do look at me when I walk into a restaurant because I'm so damn pretty.:hello:

RhodeHouse
07-14-2008, 09:33 PM
Very impressive, Matt, way more than I can lift. You have done well in your chosen field.

Where's your shirt that reads "Dupont: Better living through chemistry?"
Pharmaceuticals sure do a body good.

And no, you didn't "strike a cord," (it's 'chord', by the way, with an 'h") you pissed me off with your "better-than-thou" crap that I see from a lot of powerlifters and bodybuilders.

I also worry that some kid's going to read your posts and actually take your advice and end up taking drugs "just" to make himself bigger and lift more weights.

Besides, it's no so much that I "suck at life" that your attitude rankled, it's your hyper-macho attitude that you're better than everyone else simply because you weigh twice as much most people and can lift more weight.

Your off-hand dismissal of scientific fact (somatypes, muscle fiber differences) as being "an excuse" is intellectually offensive.

Whether you believe it or not, there are genetic differences in people.

Now, you yourself said one must have goals.
Mine is simple: Get stronger and faster.

However, I intend to do it with what God gave me, without drugs, and without sacrificing other priorities in my life.

Knowing that, I accept that I will never be as strong or as big as you.

It's a combination of genetics and goals that drives my pursuits.

How old were you when you earned your black belt?
How fast was your last marathon?
What was your time for an Ironman-distance Triathlon?
Hell, how fast can run the the 50?
I lost my last MMA fight, but I did get in the ring. Did you?

Did I lose because of genetics?

Nope. I lost because my opponent was simply better than I was. He trained harder, he was more dedicated, he had more technical skill. He was stronger than me, and it played a role, but I don't blame my somatype for his strength advantage.

But, for strictly size-gaining, and strength-gaining, there are differences and there are limits, unless you're willing to resort to drugs (which I am not, but your posts have already stated quite clearly you're willing to do).

So, yeah.....I suck at life.

No, I just suck at powerlifting and body-building.
Just like you suck at marathons and triathlons.

And you know what? I don't care.
I am not going to use any means, legal or ethical or not, just to get bigger because being bigger doesn't mean that much to me.

In fact, in my goal to compete and finish a multi-discipline adventure race, size can be a hindrance.

Now, I know full well that my times in the marathon, the number of pull-ups that I can do, my resting heart rate, qualifying for the eco-challenge, all that crap, doesn't mean anything to you.

Just like the amount of weight you can hoist off the ground doesn't mean anything to me.

It doesn't mean I (or the others here like me who have other fitness goals) "suck at life."

It means you suck at looking beyond your short-sighted "bigger is better" attitude.


Oh, and by the way, people do look at me when I walk into a restaurant because I'm so damn pretty.:hello:

Interesting points. When my eyes stop closing from boredom, I'll respond...

The fact of the matter is, you just don't get it. And most, don't get it. I'm sorry if I came of like bigger is better, but on a WEIGHTLIFTING forum, that's kinda the idea. Why lift weights, if not for size, strength, or athletic performance?

I am much more open-minded than you'll know. In fact, I am able to look past the fact that my genetics suck, yet I have chosen to succeed as a professional athlete and powerlifter, as well as in my chosen profession.

As for MY drug use - nowhere did I say I take drugs. Nowhere. They are a well-known avenue of athletic achievement. I simply said, it's out there. And guess what, some kid, already knows about drugs because of the media blowing the baseball thing WAY out of proportion.

As for my comment about sucking at life - if you make excuses in one aspct of your life, you'll make them in all. I've been there and done that.

As I've stated before, genetics is the weak man's excuse for why he sucks at life. And, you can quote me on that one.

Willie
07-14-2008, 09:46 PM
As I've stated before, genetics is the weak man's excuse for why he sucks at life. And, you can quote me on that one.

And I agree completely.

I will succeed (or not) at my goals not because of genetics, but because of my dedication to those goals. I may lose because my competitor's dedication to his goals was more pure, but my genetics aren't going to play a factor. However, my genetics play a part in determining my goals.

I'm just better at running than I am at squatting.

I agree that drugs can help, I'm just not willing to do that. Using drugs to get ahead is, in an ironic twist, an admission that you have to do "something else" to beat one's genetics, if you think about it. Even in track and field.

I never accept there's a thing I can't do, but I do accept the reality of certain genetic situations. Shorter guys are _better suited_ for bike racing. Aerodynamics and power to weight ratios, but is that going to stop me from beating shorter guys on the bike? Hell, no! And if they beat me, it's because i didn't train hard enough, not because they're shorter, and thus better suited for bike racing.

I'm not willing to do "whatever is needed" to become a champion bodybuilder. I am willing to train as hard as possible toward my goals.

Oh, and, just for fun, go here:

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/6335

...and go out to 2:25 seconds and listen to yourself admit that you originally had a goal that was not achievable.

:omg:

I disagree. I think you simply weren't willing to do whatever it took to achieve that goal. Therein is the difference.

You and I are more alike than either of us would like to admit.

EDIT: Oh, and there's a GPP forum here where "fitness" guys like me hang out, so it's not just about weightlifting.

Fuzzy
07-14-2008, 11:06 PM
I gain weight faster, be it muscle or fat than all the skinny kids I know.

Doesnt bug me.

BFGUITAR
07-15-2008, 12:16 AM
I gain weight faster, be it muscle or fat than all the skinny kids I know.

Doesnt bug me.

Same here.

I agree with Rhodes to an extent.

1) Do what it takes to be on top
2) Genetics is no excuse

Even if you were to work hard like the great BBers/PLers out there you may not reach them. This probably isnt because of genetics but because of training. They found a style of training that suited them perfectly. This is very hard to do and chances are we wont attain that style that suits us. But we can try and still make amazing progress.

eriatarka01
07-15-2008, 01:01 AM
i thought i was a hardgainer. then i started carrying a gallon of milk with me wherever i went and dedicated myself to a routine. now my problem isn't how skinny i am but how to make these damn stretch marks look better :evillaugh:

Tennessee Mike
07-15-2008, 05:34 AM
Buzzwords:

Hardgainer
core
posterier chain
overtraining

Tennessee Mike
07-15-2008, 05:45 AM
Lets be honest here.If your 25 yrs old and 160lbs,you need to man up and get some drugs.Theres no way in hell your gonna get big from supplements and killing yourself in the gym.Ive never had a problem gaining weight,therefore My use of chemicals has been very limited.But I dont shy away either.Im sick and ****in tired of "hardgainers" bitchin about how little progress they make.They complain they arent big eaters.Well,you MAKE yourself a big eater.You start powerlifting for strength and size.You dont go to the gym and bust out tricep kickbacks and seated rows and expect to get huge.And if your afraid to stik yourself with a pin,or have a moral problem with it,then accept the fact that your gonna stay the way you are.Theres all these delusions out there about how big you can get naturally,and I blame the magazines for it.Its rediculous.

*Get some test
*Double your calories
*Follow a powerlifting routine

dynamo
07-15-2008, 05:53 AM
lately I've been trying to bulk up quite a bit since i finsihed my cycle of RESULTS which worked out very well. And I quite honestly dont understand the concept of a hardgainer... I believe that there are people who no matter what they eat cannot gain weight. So those people usally take mass/weight gainers. Now for me my metabolism is really slow and i could gain weight like nothing fat is easy but muscle is not easy to put on...

Am I considered a "hardgainer" if its hard for me to put on muscle. or does that term just refer to the skinny teenage kids whose bodies need every bit of food to grow? and if for me its easy to gain fat then will taking in an extra 850 calroies from a mass gainig shake just make me fat or will it help add in the muscle bulding process over time. I really hope this "Up your mass" I bought wont just all go to my gut which most of the food i eat goes, weather or not its rich healthy food or greesy burgers and fries....

Its all about consistancy. I put on 40 lbs in a little over 4 months but that bc I was consistant about doing it and the only time i missed in the gym was the week off I had for recovery. I do know a fellow who is 6'5" and 150 lbs, he says he eats and eats, but never gains weight. You know what he eats for breakfast? 2 pop tarts, you know what he eats for lunch? a hot dog or hamburger. You know what I eat for breakfast? a 1 serving (3 scoop) opticen shake. You know what I eat at 10 am? a 3 scoop nitrean shake. You know what I eat at lunch? 2 cans of tuna a serving of veggies, and 2 peanut trail mix bars. Thats my cut diet all before 1pm. So hard gainer is just an excuse to eat less. I remember when I first started bulking, it actually hurt to eat. So from my experience, if you're gaining too much fat you're not lifting heavy often enough, and if you're not gaining muscle, you're not lifting heavy enough. rawr the end.

HP666
07-15-2008, 09:05 AM
I'm fast and strong.

I did 16 pull-ups this morning (unweighted, sorry). How many did you do?


Exactly zero. :thumbup:

Willie
07-15-2008, 09:07 AM
Theres no way in hell your gonna get big from supplements and killing yourself in the gym.

And why is that? Maybe because they _are_ ectomorphs.


My use of chemicals has been very limited.But I dont shy away either.Im sick and ****in tired of "hardgainers" bitchin about how little progress they make.They complain they arent big eaters.Well,you MAKE yourself a big eater.You start powerlifting for strength and size.

This attitude that the way to solve the "hardgainers bitching" that bothers you is for them to "man up" and take drugs. Wow, that's so...athletic.



....or have a moral problem with it,then accept the fact that your gonna stay the way you are.Theres all these delusions out there about how big you can get naturally,and I blame the magazines for it.Its rediculous.

Precisely what I was saying. Biologically, genetically, short of jamming a syringe in my arm, I am never going to be a great powerlifter or bodybuilder!
But I'm OK with that. I've never "bitched" about being a "hardgainer."

Why don't you offer the advice to train hard, eat right, get proper recovery and accept that there are people stronger than you, yet you can be proud that you've put in the effort and maximized your potential through honest labor rather than took a shortcut with pharmaceuticals?

I am dumbfounded. Having never been involved in powerlifting (like I said, I'm more into all-around fitness) I honestly thought that steroid use was illegal, banned and frowned upon among the professionals.

Don't they pee test you? I know they do the top winners of the Ironman and Tour de France (Just ask Floyd Landis).

BulldozerBrad
07-15-2008, 09:32 AM
Willie, i want you to look closely at the URL of this page.

Now ask yourself why you are here.

Guido
07-15-2008, 09:34 AM
If your goal is to be one of the strongest people on earth and/or a professional level bodybuilder then yes, you need to face the fact that you are going to have some chemical enhancement to get there. Genetics will only get you so far. Nobody is saying you can't be proud of what you've achieved, etc., but too many people use the excuse that they can't get HUGE or strong when they are just making excuses and not putting forth the required level of effort in the gym and in the kitchen. If your goal is to become Dorian Yates or Arnold or Andy Bolton and yet you aren't doing everything you can to overcome any genetic deficienceis you have through hard training, massive amounts of eating, and yes, drugs, then you probably need to find another sport because you're never going to get there, even if you have the best genetics on earth.

99% of people out there don't have genetic abnormalities or disabilities that will limit them in the gym. There just isn't THAT much genetic variation to where it can't be overcome through proper training, nutrition, or in the case of those with hormonal deficiencies, some sort of hormonal replacement therapy. And that's before even bringing drugs into the equation.

Clearly Rhodes had no problem overcoming his genetic limitations to achieve his goals. I've overcome mine (naturally, so far) and am on the way to becoming a strong bastard (some would even say I am already). There's no reason that 99% of the people out there can't do the same, but the main limitation is often their ATTITUDE.

Tennessee Mike
07-15-2008, 11:03 AM
And why is that? Maybe because they _are_ ectomorphs.



This attitude that the way to solve the "hardgainers bitching" that bothers you is for them to "man up" and take drugs. Wow, that's so...athletic.




Precisely what I was saying. Biologically, genetically, short of jamming a syringe in my arm, I am never going to be a great powerlifter or bodybuilder!
But I'm OK with that. I've never "bitched" about being a "hardgainer."

Why don't you offer the advice to train hard, eat right, get proper recovery and accept that there are people stronger than you, yet you can be proud that you've put in the effort and maximized your potential through honest labor rather than took a shortcut with pharmaceuticals?

I am dumbfounded. Having never been involved in powerlifting (like I said, I'm more into all-around fitness) I honestly thought that steroid use was illegal, banned and frowned upon among the professionals.

Don't they pee test you? I know they do the top winners of the Ironman and Tour de France (Just ask Floyd Landis).

Obviously since your more of a "fitness" guy,you are not at the level of strength,size,or physical stature as some of us.And the fact that youve chosen to take the high road concerning drugs is your own personal choice.Obviously your goals are different.But by no means do you have the right to critisize,or judge any of us.

In regards to me not giving good advice,you are wrong.As a trainer,I would never encourage a client to do anything illegal or harmful to themselves.But being that we are all grown men here on this form,and most of us have some experience in the matter of chemicals,I am free to speak the truth.If you want to go through life complaining about being small and asking a million questions about what supplements,exercises and food are best for getting big,great.But If you want to be huge,you have to maximize genetic potential by all means.And its someones personal choice as to which lengths they are willing to go.So in retrospect,I spoke the truth and gave good advice.I didnt tell anyone to do anything.I simply stated fact.If I would have done what you would prefer me to do,I would be lying."Sure buddy.You can look just like Arnold if you take your vitamins and drink your milk".I dont think so.

And how does taking drugs make you less athletic?Im sure there are alot of proffesional athletes that would like to answer that statement.Or maybe you have no clue as to what steroids or pro hormones really do.Maybe you think you sit on a couch and shoot up a couple times a day and BOOM!Your big and jacked with tiny balls right?Or maybe you go out and commit "roid rage" on someone.Do you have any idea how much suffering, sacrifice,and sheer mental toughness goes into powerlifting,bodybuilding,strongman?No.Your a fitness guy.You like to stay in shape and say you ran 20 miles today.Or did 800 situps.Youve never pushed pass a muscle tear,or a shoulder that feels like someone poured gasoline on it then setting it ablaze.

Do me a favor.If you want to debate,fine.But dont judge or question ones morality.Dont tell people whats legal/illegal.You sound like a grumpy old man who bitches to the waittress that his soup is too cold.

Phenom
07-15-2008, 11:48 AM
Sorry boys. It's just a bunch of excuses as to why you suck at life. "I can't do it because my genetics are bad." Cry me a river. My comments were not trying to belittle anyones efforts, rather to show them that the mind can overcome any obstacle. If you really think you can't do it, you won't. By looking at your stats, it's obvious that you keep telling yourself that you can't.

I really don't care about your success in the gym, or life, for that matter. It's of no consequence to me. But, having been the skinny kid who never thought he'd get big, and now, being the jacked MFer that gets stares when I walk into restaurants - I can tell you from personal experience, that it's all in your mind. I've been lifting for almost as long as you've been alive. I know a thing or two that you don't. If it makes you guys feel better about yourselves to make excuses for why you're small in a big man's game, go for it. I'll jump on the bandwagon with you.

Don't worry about it little guys. You can't get big and strong because your genetics suck. In fact, don't even blame yourselves. Blame your parents. After all, if your mom found a bigger guy to be your dad, you might not be so small. Actually, it's your dad's fault for not being genetically gifted enough. Blame dad. He really screwed you over.

Or, maybe, you could just... No, you won't do what you're told by bigger and better lifters. That would mean that you'd actually have to be held accountable for your results. If you don't achieve your goals, you have no one to blame but yourselves. I know that concept is foreign to some of you younger guys. I guess it's easier to use genetics and blame someone else for why you can't reach your goals.

:boring:

RhodeHouse
07-15-2008, 01:49 PM
:boring:

At the end of the day, you're still small, no matter how boring I might be.

With those stats, you might want to listen to me. I know I'd be down right ashamed to call myself a weightlifter with your numbers.

Best rule Dave Tate wrote in his 9 Secrets of Training Success, article - Rule #9 - Shut the hell up and listen!

Tennessee Mike
07-15-2008, 02:08 PM
At the end of the day, you're still small, no matter how boring I might be.

With those stats, you might want to listen to me. I know I'd be down right ashamed to call myself a weightlifter with your numbers.

Best rule Dave Tate wrote in his 9 Secrets of Training Success, article - Rule #9 - Shut the hell up and listen!

Matt,I could not agree more.Even after some 18 years or more of training,I still surround myself with bigger,stronger guys.And pick the brains of people like yourself because unfortunately I dont know everything and I wanna learn.Seems these guys dont like hearing the truth.And god forbid you talk to them like a man.So sensitive.

HP666
07-15-2008, 02:32 PM
Matt,I could not agree more.Even after some 18 years or more of training,I still surround myself with bigger,stronger guys.And pick the brains of people like yourself because unfortunately I dont know everything and I wanna learn.Seems these guys dont like hearing the truth.And god forbid you talk to them like a man.So sensitive.


Well Mike, I agree with you a 100%, that's personally why I'm here. One thing I understand, and you obviously do too, is that the mentality we're dealing with here is what separates the "greats", hell, even the "real goods", from the "never was and never will be's".

Phenom
07-15-2008, 03:30 PM
At the end of the day, you're still small, no matter how boring I might be.

With those stats, you might want to listen to me. I know I'd be down right ashamed to call myself a weightlifter with your numbers.

Best rule Dave Tate wrote in his 9 Secrets of Training Success, article - Rule #9 - Shut the hell up and listen!

C'mon now, did you seriously just turn this thread into a "I can lift so much more than you, you are weak and puny blah blah blah" thread? Wait, here's a thought, wait for it...:idea: Someone has different ideals than you! Maybe I'm not trying to look like an out of shape couch potato that can lift a lot. Quick, let me go find some 13 year olds so I can go tell them how weak they are.

JSully
07-15-2008, 05:01 PM
I'm an easygainer because it's nothing for me to suck down 6000 cals a day..


UNFORTUNATELY, that just makes me fat AND strong. *sigh* so.. I must restrict myself to slightly over maintenance if I want to gain..

since I'm on a lifelong goal of sub 10% bodyfat at 220+ lbs... I get to eat a mere 1400-1600 cals/day for the next 4-5% bodyfat to lose. Plus what seems like endless amounts of cardio. Some people are satiated off of 1500cals/day... I'm not, I'm satiated off of about 4000 cals/day, but even that will make me fat..



Bottom line, I agree with Mike and Rhoades... quit whining about being a hardgainer and go drink 3 1000 calorie shakes per day in addition to your normal "stuffing your face" food.. If that doesn't put some weight on, add 2 more shakes and keep adding until you're huge.

Willie
07-15-2008, 07:43 PM
But by no means do you have the right to critisize,or judge any of us.

Really?


...man up and get some drugs.

Sounds an awful lot like criticism to me and not what I would cal "good" training advice."


Willie, i want you to look closely at the URL of this page.

Now ask yourself why you are here.

Brother, I'm just stupid I guess. :)
Slow-learner in addition to hardgainer. :)

See, I thought I could learn more about techniques to improve my own weight training because if anyone would know, "big guys" would, right?

When I registered, I even saw a GPP forum and I was really stoked!

I didn't realize that "wannabebig" was taken so literally by the vast majority here and I was saddened to find that not only would the members here not listen to someone who had goals different from thier own, they would actively berate them in some sort of weird ego trip.

The vocal majority here just seem to want to "get big" and "lift weight" even if getting big and lifting weight is done at the expense of all other avenues of functional fitness, to include using the aid of anabolic pharmaceutical cheating.

It's ironic how some of these guys "recommend" drugs, yet deny taking them themselves.

And yes, I called it cheating.

And yes, I am fully aware that drugs PLUS vast amounts of very hard effort is what yields the results. I'm not so foolish as to think drugs alone produce muscle.

Matt Rhodes, I really do apologize for calling you a jerk wad.

It was uncalled for (and I'm not trying to justify it), but you telling me I suck at life, when in fact I simply have different goals than you, really stunned me. Your posts have usually been more adult than that and I just lashed out.

Gentlemen, I wish all the luck with your future goals, whatever they may be.

:hello:

Fuzzy
07-15-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm an easygainer because it's nothing for me to suck down 6000 cals a day..


UNFORTUNATELY, that just makes me fat AND strong. *sigh* so.. I must restrict myself to slightly over maintenance if I want to gain..

since I'm on a lifelong goal of sub 10% bodyfat at 220+ lbs... I get to eat a mere 1400-1600 cals/day for the next 4-5% bodyfat to lose. Plus what seems like endless amounts of cardio. Some people are satiated off of 1500cals/day... I'm not, I'm satiated off of about 4000 cals/day, but even that will make me fat..



Bottom line, I agree with Mike and Rhoades... quit whining about being a hardgainer and go drink 3 1000 calorie shakes per day in addition to your normal "stuffing your face" food.. If that doesn't put some weight on, add 2 more shakes and keep adding until you're huge.

Dude... use the secret weapon!

Fuzzy
07-15-2008, 11:00 PM
Ok, reading this I learnt it turbned into quite a bitch fest.

A little story. At the age of 14 I hit 407/308/462@210 raw in a meet, needless to say, I had an ego to match my strength.

Then, I swapped over to Olympic weightlifting, and my cockiness served only to have me pulled a side, slapped around, and to be utterly humiliated by a 110 pound female. From then on I struck on a new level of respect. I did not argue with my coach, I took advice, I trained and I listened.

Morale of the story? I found people who made me better at what I wanted to do. My suggestion is everyone find people like themselves that do that share similar goals and go from there. Make sure these people are better than you, wether they are bigger, stronger, or faster ont he track, but listen to them.

Crticising other people's goals is immature and childish, it gets no one anywhere.

Travis Bell
07-15-2008, 11:29 PM
Fuzzy, I wish more people your age were as open to advice as you are. I congratulate your humility. Keep it up, you're on the right track

JSully
07-15-2008, 11:33 PM
Dude... use the secret weapon!

lol.. DNP rulez j00!

MattBag
07-16-2008, 03:01 AM
Fuzzy you are f***ing super human. your lifts at the age of 14 are much are much better then what I'm capable of doing now and I've been lifting for 4 years ... I started when i was 14 and if I had your strength back then I for sure would have been playing varsity football and won alot more matches during the wrestling season when I was on varsity.... Fuzzy is a prime example of what someone who is geneticly gifted or he is atleast in my opinoin....

Basiclly I've come to realize that if your not gonna put your effort into anything it doens't matter if your and endo meso or ecto. But it definatly sucks to be someone who can put on fat easily.....

when i was 13 years old i was 278 pounds at one point. I joined the school track team worked my ass off went on the atkins diet. lost 30 pounds in a month kept off most of it.... got lazy after freshman year... jumped to around 265 yea I was lifting by then but i had just become a tubby kid again.. But I worked my ass off so hard and I was able to cut down to 214 pounds in the winter.... 50 pounds of weight lost within 5 months. It was hell but you know what hard work pays off.... but then I wasn't into sports too much did alot of drugs worked like 35 hours a week at "white castle" as a part-time manager.... I messed up my life then funny thought because last summer I cut down to 205..... I've been lifting hard for the last 3 months or so and well.... 235 stronger then I've been before....

ok now that you know some of that... All I wanted to know from posting this thread was.... How to intake an excess amount of cals and not gain "fat" .... It just isn't possible.... but this is the conclusion I've drawn up....

"Bulding muscle and gaining mass(adding weight to the body some fat) will make it easier for you to cut the fat when your done bulking because muscle burn fat... not only that but most people know muscle weighs more then fat, and stores alot of water.

So getting fat and building muscle isn't so bad because in the end when your ready to cut that fat will melt off... even more so with a cleaner diet and exercise???

Is that a correct understanding??? help me out if I missed somehting?

Fuzzy
07-16-2008, 04:47 AM
Fuzzy you are f***ing super human. your lifts at the age of 14 are much are much better then what I'm capable of doing now and I've been lifting for 4 years ... I started when i was 14 and if I had your strength back then I for sure would have been playing varsity football and won alot more matches during the wrestling season when I was on varsity.... Fuzzy is a prime example of what someone who is geneticly gifted or he is atleast in my opinoin....
?

There are plenty of genetically gifted people, large strong kids capable of moving weight. Problem is without guidance kids like me get injured very easily, you very rarely see anyone who lifted massive weights as a youngster without a support group of fellow lifters and/or coaches do well in their later years.

I am genetically gifted, thats freaking obvious, but someone with half my potential could easily crush me on the platform in the later years if I was not as obedient and respectful as I am to my coach and stronger lifters.

Too often the gentically gifted have egos so large, they won't work their weaknesses, instead they do as they want, and then their weakenesses ensure a massive injury. I was headed down this track but was fortunate enough to learn the easy way.

My potential is nothing without humility, respect, trust and discipline.

Guido
07-16-2008, 09:23 AM
There are plenty of genetically gifted people, large strong kids capable of moving weight. Problem is without guidance kids like me get injured very easily, you very rarely see anyone who lifted massive weights as a youngster without a support group of fellow lifters and/or coaches do well in their later years.

I am genetically gifted, thats freaking obvious, but someone with half my potential could easily crush me on the platform in the later years if I was not as obedient and respectful as I am to my coach and stronger lifters.

Too often the gentically gifted have egos so large, they won't work their weaknesses, instead they do as they want, and then their weakenesses ensure a massive injury. I was headed down this track but was fortunate enough to learn the easy way.

My potential is nothing without humility, respect, trust and discipline.No truer words have been spoken. So many guys I've seen who have been naturally strong as hell, but let it get to their heads and failed to train hard or correctly to maximize their potential. Then there are guys who are genetically average who train hard, consistently, and correctly with good coaching who surpass those lazy, genetically gifted guys and go on to become the best in their chosen sport.

Those who don't have superior genetics or hormone levels will need to train even twice as hard to reach the same level, but it can be done (to some extent). If you're not willing to do all the things it takes to get there, though, then you need to try a different sport (or become a sedentary, weak couch potato like most Americans) because a defeatist attitude will get you nowhere.

HP666
07-16-2008, 11:56 AM
There are plenty of genetically gifted people, large strong kids capable of moving weight. Problem is without guidance kids like me get injured very easily, you very rarely see anyone who lifted massive weights as a youngster without a support group of fellow lifters and/or coaches do well in their later years.

I am genetically gifted, thats freaking obvious, but someone with half my potential could easily crush me on the platform in the later years if I was not as obedient and respectful as I am to my coach and stronger lifters.

Too often the gentically gifted have egos so large, they won't work their weaknesses, instead they do as they want, and then their weakenesses ensure a massive injury. I was headed down this track but was fortunate enough to learn the easy way.

My potential is nothing without humility, respect, trust and discipline.

Fuzzy, are you a real person?? I'd swear if I saw you at your keyboard I'd see Charles Poliquin or Fred Hatfield typing. ;)

RhodeHouse
07-16-2008, 09:16 PM
Really?



Sounds an awful lot like criticism to me and not what I would cal "good" training advice."



Brother, I'm just stupid I guess. :)
Slow-learner in addition to hardgainer. :)

See, I thought I could learn more about techniques to improve my own weight training because if anyone would know, "big guys" would, right?

When I registered, I even saw a GPP forum and I was really stoked!

I didn't realize that "wannabebig" was taken so literally by the vast majority here and I was saddened to find that not only would the members here not listen to someone who had goals different from thier own, they would actively berate them in some sort of weird ego trip.

The vocal majority here just seem to want to "get big" and "lift weight" even if getting big and lifting weight is done at the expense of all other avenues of functional fitness, to include using the aid of anabolic pharmaceutical cheating.

It's ironic how some of these guys "recommend" drugs, yet deny taking them themselves.

And yes, I called it cheating.

And yes, I am fully aware that drugs PLUS vast amounts of very hard effort is what yields the results. I'm not so foolish as to think drugs alone produce muscle.

Matt Rhodes, I really do apologize for calling you a jerk wad.

It was uncalled for (and I'm not trying to justify it), but you telling me I suck at life, when in fact I simply have different goals than you, really stunned me. Your posts have usually been more adult than that and I just lashed out.

Gentlemen, I wish all the luck with your future goals, whatever they may be.

:hello:

No reason to apologize to me.

Steroids=Cheating? WOW! Please, get off your high horse. Do you use supplements? Protein powder? Creatine? Caffeine? Anything like that? Those are performance enhancers. How is that not cheating? Or, are steroids cheating because they're illegal? You must be a liberal. It must be nice living in Never-Neverland. Say hi to Tinkerbell and The Easter Bunny for me.

Clearly, you have never been at the top of anything. You don't know what it's like to do whatever you feel you need to do to achieve your goals. It's something that can't be explained. If you get it, you know what I'm talking about. If you don't, you'll call me a cheater or judge me because I sacrifice all other avenues of fitness to achieve one goal.

I have said that drugs are out there. EVERYBODY in America knows about steroids now. As for recommending them - they work. That's why people take them. I have denied nothing. In fact, you've already made your own decision on whether I use steroids or not. So, why bother telling you? If I say I do, then I'm a cheater. If I say I don't, then I'm a liar. Either way, you've already made up your mind.

I'd be curious to see what your thought on steroids would be if a loved one had AIDS. (God forbid that happen) For argument's sake. AIDS is the best thing that ever happened to steroids. It's a disease that wastes away the body. Steroids build the body. That's why many AIDS patients are given steroids to prolong and, in some cases, improve their lives. Is that cheating? What about the little boy that wants to become a little girl? He can take hormones to make him a her. Is that cheating? I realize it's not directly related to weightlifting, but when you start throwing around the word "cheating", a lot of doors are openned.

Careful how high that horse gets. It'll hurt when you fall.

Fuzzy
07-16-2008, 09:54 PM
No reason to apologize to me.

Steroids=Cheating? WOW! Please, get off your high horse. Do you use supplements? Protein powder? Creatine? Caffeine? Anything like that? Those are performance enhancers. How is that not cheating? Or, are steroids cheating because they're illegal? You must be a liberal. It must be nice living in Never-Neverland. Say hi to Tinkerbell and The Easter Bunny for me.

Clearly, you have never been at the top of anything. You don't know what it's like to do whatever you feel you need to do to achieve your goals. It's something that can't be explained. If you get it, you know what I'm talking about. If you don't, you'll call me a cheater or judge me because I sacrifice all other avenues of fitness to achieve one goal.

I have said that drugs are out there. EVERYBODY in America knows about steroids now. As for recommending them - they work. That's why people take them. I have denied nothing. In fact, you've already made your own decision on whether I use steroids or not. So, why bother telling you? If I say I do, then I'm a cheater. If I say I don't, then I'm a liar. Either way, you've already made up your mind.

I'd be curious to see what your thought on steroids would be if a loved one had AIDS. (God forbid that happen) For argument's sake. AIDS is the best thing that ever happened to steroids. It's a disease that wastes away the body. Steroids build the body. That's why many AIDS patients are given steroids to prolong and, in some cases, improve their lives. Is that cheating? What about the little boy that wants to become a little girl? He can take hormones to make him a her. Is that cheating? I realize it's not directly related to weightlifting, but when you start throwing around the word "cheating", a lot of doors are openned.

Careful how high that horse gets. It'll hurt when you fall.

Ah damn dude, your unedited post tied things up so nicely! I was about to write a reply to that.

Regardless, I competely agree with you, if my coach said to me tommorow 'Firas, you need to get on the juice if you want to win in Chicagó.' Then **** yeah... not a dobut in my mind I would. However, I am content in the fact I can do extremely well in the lighter classes. Plus, being as man like as I am at this age drug testers seem to have taken a liking to me.

RhodeHouse
07-16-2008, 10:06 PM
Ah damn dude, your unedited post tied things up so nicely! I was about to write a reply to that.

Regardless, I competely agree with you, if my coach said to me tommorow 'Firas, you need to get on the juice if you want to win in Chicagó.' Then **** yeah... not a dobut in my mind I would. However, I am content in the fact I can do extremely well in the lighter classes. Plus, being as man like as I am at this age drug testers seem to have taken a liking to me.

With your progress, at your age, you've got 15 more years of training before you even need to consider drugs. You're so dialed in it's unbelievable. In my opinion, drugs are THE LAST avenue to take. Once you've exhausted everything else, they can be the next step. If you use them too soon, you've lost your trump card. There's nowhere to go once you've taken drugs.

You've got some great parents and a great coach to keep you humble and so focused on your goal. And, clearly, you have a head on your shoulders. I'm sure I'll see you in the Olympics someday. Don't forget the little fat people when you get there.

HP666
07-17-2008, 09:19 AM
I'm sure I'll see you in the Olympics someday. Don't forget the little fat people when you get there.


HEY!! Who you callin' little???? :evillaugh: