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Joander123
07-11-2008, 03:19 PM
(sorry for rambling on in the post, but just wanted to get all information that you guys might need to help me out there.)


Hey all, i'm new here. This is my 2nd post, 1st one was in the introduction..

Anyways... I play highschool football, basketball and baseball... and want to get bigger to be able to compete at the varsity level.

I'm 16 years old, 6 feet tall, and probably about 175 lbs... maybe 180 right after i eat. =).

I'm not so concerned with basketball and baseball, as i think i'm pretty much big enough to play the positions i play in those sports already. Football is a different story though.

I've been playing football for a few years, and last year on the freshman team (not to brag) but i was a standout on the team. I was voted one of three team captains, and played middle linebacker....probably the hardest hitter on the team as well.

But you see, i wasn't good because i was bigger than everyone else, in fact a lot of the people i played with were a good deal bigger than me, or at least the same size. I was always good because of my mentality and approach in tackling.. i have pretty good form and when im on the football field i just try to be the meanest SOB that i can.

But for the upcoming year however... I'm a good deal smaller than my competition for a varsity linebacker spot. And i'm afraid that simply having good form and a good attitude about hitting wont cut it against these bigger upper class men. So put simply, i need to get bigger.

I've been lifting on a good schedule for the past 2 months... and have noticed some gains... but even the players my age are ahead of me because they were working out all winter and spring when i was playing basketball and baseball.



Anyways... here is what i am doing now. (on a team plan, and limited weight room schedule)

Monday is mostly shoulders and back.. (cleans, shoulder press, upright row, Dead lifts)

Tuesdays is mostly bench and squat (along with biceps, triceps, and Something called to as "jammer press")

Wednesday is the teams off day

Thursday is back to shoulders (Power press, Romanian dead lift and some legs.. calf raises, single leg box squat)

Friday is back to bench and squat.. biceps and triceps.

Saturday and sunday are off days as well... i do limited workouts on my own at home.. (mostly bench and biceps/triceps)


So a few of my stats are.. (please don't laugh :redface:)

I usually bench with a warm up set of 5X 135.. then i up it to 5x 145 .. then i up it to 5x 155 (which i really tend to struggle with). A quick question i'd like to ask is that when the weight is heavier, i tend to arch my back a lot to help out with the lift, is this taking away from muscle gain?

I usually squat 185.. and leave it there.. usually 5-10 reps depending on how it goes... (i have really bad form... mostly from poor balance and being tall)

I deadlift 225... i do 3 sets of 6 reps.

I usually curl (2 hands while standing) a 15 lb bar, with 20 lbs on each side... so a total of 55 lbs... usually 10 reps... then after that i do a "drop set" with 35 lbs. (i go until i cant then a partner drops the weight and i continue with just the bar)

Anyways... enough of that (don't really know if you needed to know all of that)

For supplements and what not i take protein after workouts.. 100% whey protein. Just one shake after a work out usually, on a day where i am not doing anything i will drink one with lunch or something.

I also take 1250 MG of creatine hydrochloride about 30 minutes prior to working out.


So in a nutshell i'm looking to increase my muscle mass, and be able to compete with older bigger players...

From you guys i'm looking for workout tips to increase my bench, squat, and overall size... maybe even a football specific workout if there is such a thing.. and some nutritional tips as well with supplements i should and shouldn't be taking (some people i know are taking nitric oxide?)

Again, i'm just looking to get as big as possible (without getting fat obviously) ... any help would be greatly appreciated, and if you need any more information of any sort just ask and i'll tell you what i know.

Thanks in advance guys,
-J

schmitty199
07-11-2008, 04:40 PM
Well it's probably to late to get where you want for this season, but you need to start a good plan to build for your next 2 seasons. And continue it all year long. The other kids shouldnt be ahead of you because you were in basketball and baseball, should of been lifting anyways on adjusted in-season workouts.

Joander123
07-11-2008, 05:00 PM
Well it's probably to late to get where you want for this season, but you need to start a good plan to build for your next 2 seasons. And continue it all year long. The other kids shouldnt be ahead of you because you were in basketball and baseball, should of been lifting anyways on adjusted in-season workouts.


Hours did not match up, i did some light lifting on my own.. but i would have practice or a game, and they would be in the weight room... my practice or game would be over... and not only would i be to tired, but the weight room would be closed anyways.

When i say they are ahead of me... i mean maybe 10 lbs on the bench (forgive me for always referring to benching, its just the most noticeable too me)

Mike G
07-11-2008, 06:03 PM
I coach high school football (defense) and played MLB in high school and the one thing I really wish I would have changed was how much I would squat. I was more concerned about my bench and pushing big weight instead of worrying about hitting up squats hard. Don't use your height as an excuse for poor squat form, you're not that tall and I've seen guys a lot taller than you with very good form. Drop the weight and work your back up with solid form. You'll make quicker gains that way and be much better off in the long run.

Going by the weights you listed, it looks like you do the same weight each time? If so, you need to progress each time you hit your final set. For example, bench 155x5 is kinda hard, but if you get it and you were looking for 5, go up next workout. I don't really like your routine, but that's up to your coaches to change.

Last thing, you might not be the right size or as big, but if you're good and you read well, you can make up for a lack in size and strength. When I went to college, I decided I wasn't tall enough to play LB, so I moved to safety, huge mistake because I could hit and read well. Good luck.

Joander123
07-11-2008, 06:11 PM
I coach high school football (defense) and played MLB in high school and the one thing I really wish I would have changed was how much I would squat. I was more concerned about my bench and pushing big weight instead of worrying about hitting up squats hard. Don't use your height as an excuse for poor squat form, you're not that tall and I've seen guys a lot taller than you with very good form. Drop the weight and work your back up with solid form. You'll make quicker gains that way and be much better off in the long run.

Going by the weights you listed, it looks like you do the same weight each time? If so, you need to progress each time you hit your final set. For example, bench 155x5 is kinda hard, but if you get it and you were looking for 5, go up next workout. I don't really like your routine, but that's up to your coaches to change.

Last thing, you might not be the right size or as big, but if you're good and you read well, you can make up for a lack in size and strength. When I went to college, I decided I wasn't tall enough to play LB, so I moved to safety, huge mistake because I could hit and read well. Good luck.


Alright, thanks for the advice. I have always been told i was an intelligent player, so that has to mean something...

So what your saying is if i can hit 5x 155 then the next time i bench i should look to hit 5x 160?

Also, any tips on squatting? I know that my height is not an excuse, i just have poor balance in general... but don't really know how to fix it. When i go down to the right point, my heels leave the ground and i almost fall over forward, when i focus on keeping my heels on the ground, i can't get low enough. Know what i'm saying?

The work-out plan is not followed religiously, there is a good deal of freedom... for the most part its like tuesday and friday are bench and squat days, monday and thursday are the other important lifts (cleans and dead lifts).

What would you change about the routine...? I'm open to suggestions.

Mike G
07-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Alright, thanks for the advice. I have always been told i was an intelligent player, so that has to mean something...
Aboslutely, especially in high school. No JV team, or just trying out for Varsity? As a sophomore, if you're smart and get after it, you'll get time. Might not start, but the coaches should want to get you some serious time so you're better prepared for the future.
So what your saying is if i can hit 5x 155 then the next time i bench i should look to hit 5x 160?
Yes. At this point, you should really be able to progress workout to workout.
Also, any tips on squatting? I know that my height is not an excuse, i just have poor balance in general... but don't really know how to fix it. When i go down to the right point, my heels leave the ground and i almost fall over forward, when i focus on keeping my heels on the ground, i can't get low enough. Know what i'm saying?
I see it with most of the kids I coach. You need to sit back when going down, not straight down and keep the weight on your heels. If you're like the kids I coach, you're just squatting down, your knees cave in and you end up doing a half squat that looks painful and awkward. Look for Sensei's videos on squatting, they are some of the best I have seen, probably the best and will give you a visual along with the instruction.
The work-out plan is not followed religiously, there is a good deal of freedom... for the most part its like tuesday and friday are bench and squat days, monday and thursday are the other important lifts (cleans and dead lifts).
I'm personally not a fan of a four day split like that. You go hard with your shoulder work, your bench suffers. You go hard with your deadlift, your squat may suffer. Personally, I would prefer an upper lower split if you're lifting those four days. Really, you should look into some pre made routines, Rippetoes Starting Strength is a good one for a beginner, you'll have better luck with that than going by your gut, but it's three days a week on non consecutive days. Just google it and you'll find a lot, or search this forum and you'll find a lot.
What would you change about the routine...? I'm open to suggestions.

My responses are in bold. You have a month at this point until practice starts, so you're not going to make huge gains and get jacked, but you can build a really solid base for the season and you should be able to continue making gains during the season.

Joander123
07-11-2008, 07:30 PM
My responses are in bold. You have a month at this point until practice starts, so you're not going to make huge gains and get jacked, but you can build a really solid base for the season and you should be able to continue making gains during the season.



Thanks mike.

I have talked with the coach, and he said he expects me to be a "big gun" in the future, and that if i just stay in the weight room and stay committed i could become a very good player. There is a JV team, so its not a huge deal... but i'm an athlete... and a competitor.... JV is obviously not what i am shooting for..its a fall back.

The defense we are going to try to run this year (please no bashing i don't understand it at this point either) is a 3-5. Yup 5 linebackers. The varsity roster is not all that large, and the coach is intent on beginning the year with five seniors as linebackers (we don't really have 5 seniors that are true linebackers)... i think at the moment i may be about eighth in the running for 5 spots... but of course injury can play a roll in the season, they always do... so i should get a shot. The coach told me straight up that he's going to give me a shot and he wants to see how big my balls are... so its just a question of what i can do with it.

Another question i have is about supplements... Nitric oxide. Is it anything i should look into? I know some of the seniors are taking it.. (yes i understand that supplements are not miracle workers, just asking the question :) )

Travis Bell
07-11-2008, 07:43 PM
don't waste your money on NO2 supplements. Its paying for a pump, thats it.

If you spend your money on anything make sure first and foremost its lots of food. You've got to eat like a horse. Every day, whether you feel like it or not, you have to eat eat and eat some more.

Secondly, if you want to spend some money on supplements, get some protein. Nitrean is a great start. Some creatine isn't going to hurt at all either

Joander123
07-11-2008, 07:59 PM
don't waste your money on NO2 supplements. Its paying for a pump, thats it.

If you spend your money on anything make sure first and foremost its lots of food. You've got to eat like a horse. Every day, whether you feel like it or not, you have to eat eat and eat some more.

Secondly, if you want to spend some money on supplements, get some protein. Nitrean is a great start. Some creatine isn't going to hurt at all either



Ok, thanks. I do take protein (whey), usually once a day after my workout or if i didn't work out with lunch. I also take creatine (1250 mg of hydrochloride) before i work out. Any flaws in what i am doing with the supplements?

Joander123
07-14-2008, 11:47 AM
Ok, well just a little update.

Hit the weights pretty hard to day... shoulder press and deadlift were the big two.. but other stuff as well obviously.

Tomorrow is a bench/squat day.

I was pretty pleased with the deadlift... it was a lot of work... but i did 10x 225, then on my last set 8x 245. Which is pretty good i think.


So i decided upon reading that i should be "bulking" correct? Basically trying to take in a $hit load of calories and gain weight while lifting?

vdizenzo
07-14-2008, 02:34 PM
Ok, thanks. I do take protein (whey), usually once a day after my workout or if i didn't work out with lunch. I also take creatine (1250 mg of hydrochloride) before i work out. Any flaws in what i am doing with the supplements?

You need carbs immediately after your workout and then some protein. The carbs are actually more important at that time. Start researching nutrition. It's 50% of the game.

Joander123
07-14-2008, 02:53 PM
You need carbs immediately after your workout and then some protein. The carbs are actually more important at that time. Start researching nutrition. It's 50% of the game.

So what would you personally do right after a workout to replenish carbs?

Also- i thought that the protein shakes had a good deal of carbs for this reason?

vdizenzo
07-14-2008, 04:06 PM
I guzzle down 100 grams of carbs immediately after my workout plus 10 grams of Leucine. Then 15 minutes later I gulp down 1.5 scoops of Nitrean in water. About two hours later I drink another 2 scoops of Nitrean. I recommend doing a little research on nutrient timing. It gives you an idea of what to consume before, during, and after your workouts to optimize your recovery and growth.

Protein shakes contain little to no carbs. However, a gainer like Maximus does.