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View Full Version : Obsession with cuts amongst younger lifters.



Tennessee Mike
07-16-2008, 06:11 AM
I felt the need to bring this up.As I approach 35 yrs old,I tend to look back to when I was 16 and got really serious about training.Being big and strong was something I wanted from a very early age.I use to watch proffessional wrestling and think guys like Ivan Putski,Don Muraco,and Jimmy Snuka were the biggest guys in the world.When I started playing High School football,all I wanted to do was get bigger and stronger so I would be a better LB.Even when I started competing in bodybuilding,I loved everything about it but contest prep and dieting.Finally as a powerlifter I feel at home in my skin.Big and strong.

What I dont get is the obsession young guys have with cuts,abdominal detail,or just low bodyfat in general.When your old is when you should worry about bodyfat and cholesterol,blood pressure.Not at 18 yrs old.So many guys are afraid to bulk up if it means getting a belly.Why?Are you in the gym 4-5 days a week to impress chicks?Every year as a trainer,I have a few kids who wants to put on size for football(I live in TN,where high school football is as serious as collge in some areas) ,but yet the first thing he says is"I want a six pack".I truly blame magazines like Flex,Mens Health,Muscle and Fitness,and television for this.Its the same with women,I know.But for a young guy who has levels of natural testosterone I wish I still had to not eat enough food for growth,or to do massive amounts of running to stay lean while trying to bulk,is rediculous to me.We are men.We are supposed to be big.

And Im not directing this to certain types of athletes that require one to stay in a certain bodyfat range.Im talking about your average kid who claims he wants to "be huge".Whats the deal?

Fuzzy
07-16-2008, 06:28 AM
I spent a happy few months very close to 240 pounds. Count me as one of the rare exceptions.

Most of it has to do with girls, alot of girls at younger ages are barely sticks themselves, and like wise they like skinny pretty boys, as they got older and suddenly they get more meat on their hips, they tend to appreciate a fellah with a bit more size.

I was always lucky that I look much much older than I am, plus, I prefer little Italian/greek girls who are more likely to get some more weight around their hips much earlier and as such want a boyfriend that is bigger than them, not lighter.

Regardless, it is not somethin you can do anything about and is really a social trend. I take pride in the fact that Im the kid at prom in a classic clean cut suit who let's his carraige and pride show through his posture than some emo punk smaller than my leg in a multicoloured suit.

I can answer more questions or go into more depth id you want, Im smack bang in the age bracket you are talking about.

Tennessee Mike
07-16-2008, 06:32 AM
Ive always found that the girls woth getting like Bigger guys.But then again,I like my women a little more curvy.The one thing Im thankful for Is that I missed the Emo trend.Me and my Metal friends would have been cracking skulls if we were subjected to that kind of gayness.

Fuzzy
07-16-2008, 06:34 AM
Ive always found that the girls woth getting like Bigger guys.But then again,I like my women a little more curvy.The one thing Im thankful for Is that I missed the Emo trend.Me and my Metal friends would have been cracking skulls if we were subjected to that kind of gayness.

If only I had friends like you now.

Another good example are teenagers and cars, many are willing to go to extremes to get a car to impress girls.

For ****s sake the only thing I want any girl looking at is me when I step out of the car!

Isaac Wilkins
07-16-2008, 07:27 AM
Mike,

As a performance coach I definitely agree. I see it all of the time with my football kids and I see it in the gym.

Fuzzy's right, it's the girls. I remember mentoring a bunch of high school guys (not in weightlifting, it was a social work-type program) in a residential setting. They were all about getting the cuts to get the girls. I used to tell them: "Guys, the girls that you like are all about those cuts. The women that I date like their men big, strong, and able to lay it down". They all used to laugh, but they also used to give me a high five and say "damn!" when they saw my dates.

smokinHawk
07-16-2008, 08:17 AM
i remember when this chikc i was dating insulated me my junior or senior year, she called me skinny, should have back handed her as i thought i was built back then.
then another chick said i was the biggest little guy she has ever seen, i was like whattheheck does that mean?
another chick disliked my "big" 15.5 arms and wanted me to ware shirts with long sleeves when we went out.
but most chicks like skinny cut guys in highschool
my wife now hates my round butt and doesnt want me to get more muscular, though she says i can get fatter.

ct67_72
07-16-2008, 08:31 AM
isnt it crazy how that works out. I was one of the larger kids in school, not horribly fat but I had a gut whle most were pretty skinny, or really big. all the girls liked the skinny kids. the only respect I got was going over my friends house and having him show off my arms to his father lol, I think I was 15 and at about 16.5". now my girlfriend (who has hips but is very small, ) tries feeding me brownies every chance she gets.

McLaughlin
07-16-2008, 09:13 AM
I wanted a 6 pack for a long time just for my own sake, because I never liked the idea of 'having a belly'.

But once I started coming here and learning more.... belly doesn't matter if it makes me stronger :D (or if not belly, lack of "abs" definition in that area)

I love this stuff, only downside I see is that I can't do it every day.

bill
07-16-2008, 09:46 AM
I think most of is appearance, most of the college guys at my gym are more into aesthetics. We watched Fools gold and my wife is like why can't you look like him, he is built, but I have no desire to be that "small" I guess? Abs are cool but most people have to stay fairly small to keep abs, naturally anyway.

RazorsEdge
07-16-2008, 09:57 AM
I think most of is appearance, most of the college guys at my gym are more into aesthetics. We watched Fools gold and my wife is like why can't you look like him, he is built, but I have no desire to be that "small" I guess? Abs are cool but most people have to stay fairly small to keep abs, naturally anyway.

funny my girl told me the same thing while watching that movie the other night.

bill
07-16-2008, 10:09 AM
Razor Well I told the wife, it's win win, you keep looking him and I will keep watching Kate Hudson!

smokinHawk
07-16-2008, 10:31 AM
kate is to skinny

bill
07-16-2008, 10:39 AM
kate is to skinny

I disagree :tuttut:

manowar669
07-16-2008, 11:14 AM
Gay men like skinny guys with 6 packs. That's all I'm saying.
I'm 39, my fiancee (she's 31) says she likes my shoulders traps and arms, and bigger calves. I think I look best at 12-15% bf. Feel better too. I'll probably never diet down to sub 10% again. There's a bunch of gay men in my neighborhood, I have to watch out for myself.

smokinHawk
07-16-2008, 12:35 PM
I disagree :tuttut:

well if you like flat boards, then more power to ya.
not to say i wouldnt like to use her as a board press at all.:evillaugh:

Tennessee Mike
07-16-2008, 01:34 PM
I think we've gone off topic..horny bastards.

Progress
07-16-2008, 02:41 PM
I can understand your gripe about guys who want to get cut up and have defined abs without much
size. Thatís always annoyed me. Whatís more is when a girl says something along the lines of ďhe
looks like heís in good shapeĒ while referring to someone that looks like Scott Weiland with his shirt
off. Just because he has no body fat and defined abs doesnít mean itís attractive. Get him up close
and youíll understand.

However, what I did want to address is that Iím an adherer of getting big and staying lean. Iím not
focused on have full definition in my abs. But I want to grow in size and not get a gut. Iím not
impressed by guys with massive chests if their belly is competing for which can be further away from
the body.

On a sidebar I wanted to comment on the whole girls thing. When I was in high school I was small
and skinny. I remember dancing at a formal with a girl and she commented at how small my waist
was since she was touching it. Itís things like that that encouraged me to get bigger.

IvanDrago
07-16-2008, 03:06 PM
I'm not old at all, but I remember the action heroes of my day being guys like Arnold. Now, Topher freakin' Grace plays Eddie Brock and Tobey McGuire is spiderman. Seriously, hollywood could not have emo-fied the spiderman series more.

Once I remember our ATC at school saying that Brad Pitt was so "ripped" in fight club. Even said he was "huge". He might have been 175lbs. This is where the kids get it. The fat-phobia of women has somehow migrated into male culture. Even in 300, they doctored up the abs for appearance. I know rangy guys are more accurate for the hoplite, but that's a step far. TC's article, Blue Lizard, is an interesting look at this sort of thing, testosterone culture and all.

The funny thing is, as mentioned, the kids are all obsessed with this mtv-driven crap for looks. If they really want a chicks attention (how about some confidence or pride from working hard with heavy weights instead?), get some back and shoulders. She ain't going to know what your abs look like anyway unless, well, she liked everything else first. The irony is that usually the guys that have the most impressive physiques are the ones that don't care about what their abs look like in different lighting.

emo sucks. I listen to Killswitch Engage, lift heavy weights, and eat cholesterol laden foods. Despite how "bad" this is supposed to be, my health and appearance pretty much trumps everybody that goes to the gym and curls away in the squat rack and finishes up with a $10 starbucks drink.

TKisner
07-16-2008, 03:26 PM
Everything that is wrong in the world is embodied in the emo culture. If it was legal to beat a guy for being a raging emosexual I would have bloody knuckles every day.

HP666
07-16-2008, 04:14 PM
Emo, like Goth, but for pussies.:evillaugh:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/bigken666/EMO.jpg

HP666
07-16-2008, 04:19 PM
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/bigken666/emopussy.jpg

HP666
07-16-2008, 04:19 PM
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/bigken666/devil-sign.gif

BFGUITAR
07-16-2008, 04:26 PM
My roommate only obsesses about arms chest and abs. He just want them so he can pick up girls.

My other roommate sees my way now. He still wants to look good but he understands he needs to work out his entire body, be proportionate and lift heavy weights. A lot of this is lack of knowledge and obsession with media.

Tennessee Mike
07-16-2008, 04:36 PM
I use to compete at 6% bodyfat.I looked great and felt like ****.All the hard work I did ti get big and strong was wasted by diet.The last 4 weeks before a show,I was so ****in weak.For what?To stand in front of people in a pair of speedos and be judged?What the hell does that have to do with being a man?Its all about your goals.Im 16% bf right now and am 4 pants size bigger than before.But I feel good,look decent and am strong as hell for a Raw powerlifter of my size.I say **** or get off the pot.You wanna be big or cut?

cphafner
07-16-2008, 04:37 PM
This comes up all the time. I don't understand why people care what other's goals are. I like being lean. Different strokes for different folks. I don't know why the powerlifters have to constantly bring up this debate. Maybe I come from a different perspective because I've always been lean. This prevailing notion that has infiltrated the site recently that only big is good drives me nuts.

scission
07-16-2008, 04:49 PM
Once I remember our ATC at school saying that Brad Pitt was so "ripped" in fight club. Even said he was "huge". He might have been 175lbs. .

If I recall correctly, Brad was 155 lbs at 5'11'' in fight club. Tiny.

Tennessee Mike
07-16-2008, 05:13 PM
The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.

RazorsEdge
07-16-2008, 05:27 PM
Its fueled by the gym and everything we see in the fitness world. Every muscle mag, protein shake, supplements etc always show a cut up guy with abs, its what the media has lead people to think sexy is. When I was younger I was known as the white pole, tall and skinny as hell I was 6'2 and 180 and girls would joke about how skinny I was all the time, sure I had abs but no matter how much time I spent in the gym I didnt build size. Finally I sat down and learned how to EAT. And I mean I ate like crazy and finally saw gains. Now Im back in the gym hard again, eating a lot and people who I havent seen since high school are just like holy crap did you get big, like huge big. And all the kids I remember being "big" in high school are still the same size, working on their abs like crazy.
As for the guys who want to have abs on here, I dont think anyone said that you should go kill yourself if you want abs, its more that people feel that only way you are in good shape is if you have abs. Then guys starve themselves, count calories all day, run tons of miles and they arent strong. My boyfriend is my age and we both started out again hard at the gym a year ago. He takes more supplements, all sorts of diffrent creatines and constantly wants to train with me because I have put on so much more size then he has in less time. Meanwhile when i grill up some chicken he is peeling all of the skin off the chicken to avoid unncessary fat, runs like crazy and wants to take all thats ab pills and stuff just so he can get cut up. I think you gotta look at it like a girl supermodel. Sure they look hot on tv, but up close their skin looks like ****, their actual internal bodies arent very healthy and they starve themselves to death minus the fact they loose their t&a from trying to be so skinny. I see the little prettyboys in my gym all the time flexing in the mirror starring at themselves and the whole 9, as for the maybe handful of big guys who are there Im dying to try and train with them

scission
07-16-2008, 05:27 PM
The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.

Let's go grab a beer sometime bro.

cphafner
07-16-2008, 05:28 PM
The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.

You come off as very narrow minded, so I won't bother arguing. I just don't get why you care what others do.

Unholy
07-16-2008, 05:30 PM
So people that lift for aesthetics are insecure and have mental problems? This site is getting pathetic. I mean, personally I am all for being big and semi lean simultaneously but holy **** to start a thread bashing people that care about how they look is pretty ******ed. Maybe now that CM's wife left him he will get a six pack LOLOLOLOLZ.

JSully
07-16-2008, 06:47 PM
lol.. so strength athletes are more "manly" than bodybuilders

:rolleyes:

JSully
07-16-2008, 06:52 PM
I use to compete at 6% bodyfat.I looked great and felt like ****.All the hard work I did ti get big and strong was wasted by diet.The last 4 weeks before a show,I was so ****in weak.For what?To stand in front of people in a pair of speedos and be judged?What the hell does that have to do with being a man?Its all about your goals.Im 16% bf right now and am 4 pants size bigger than before.But I feel good,look decent and am strong as hell for a Raw powerlifter of my size.I say **** or get off the pot.You wanna be big or cut?


The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.


so... if bodybuilding all about being a chick and insecure and not manly.. then why did you ever compete in bodybuilding?


see that part I bolded... THAT'S bodybuilding.. yet you contradict yourself..

again.. :rolleyes:

Patriot 1776
07-16-2008, 08:20 PM
lol.. so strength athletes are more "manly" than bodybuilders

:rolleyes:

Yep.


Justin Harris, Marius Pudjianowski, Sam Byrd, Weenie Jake....


ALL Girls!

Patriot 1776
07-16-2008, 10:48 PM
Maybe now that CM's wife left him he will get a six pack LOLOLOLOLZ.

Who?

TwiloMike
07-16-2008, 11:12 PM
I felt the need to bring this up.As I approach 35 yrs old,I tend to look back to when I was 16 and got really serious about training.Being big and strong was something I wanted from a very early age.I use to watch proffessional wrestling and think guys like Ivan Putski,Don Muraco,and Jimmy Snuka were the biggest guys in the world.When I started playing High School football,all I wanted to do was get bigger and stronger so I would be a better LB.Even when I started competing in bodybuilding,I loved everything about it but contest prep and dieting.Finally as a powerlifter I feel at home in my skin.Big and strong.

What I dont get is the obsession young guys have with cuts,abdominal detail,or just low bodyfat in general.When your old is when you should worry about bodyfat and cholesterol,blood pressure.Not at 18 yrs old.So many guys are afraid to bulk up if it means getting a belly.Why?Are you in the gym 4-5 days a week to impress chicks?Every year as a trainer,I have a few kids who wants to put on size for football(I live in TN,where high school football is as serious as collge in some areas) ,but yet the first thing he says is"I want a six pack".I truly blame magazines like Flex,Mens Health,Muscle and Fitness,and television for this.Its the same with women,I know.But for a young guy who has levels of natural testosterone I wish I still had to not eat enough food for growth,or to do massive amounts of running to stay lean while trying to bulk,is rediculous to me.We are men.We are supposed to be big.

And Im not directing this to certain types of athletes that require one to stay in a certain bodyfat range.Im talking about your average kid who claims he wants to "be huge".Whats the deal?Not everyone shares your set of priorities. Welcome to life. :rolleyes: Why should they?

I like the cut and lean look no less than I like the big and beefy look. When done right, either looks good on me, my friends, boyfriends, etc. Depending on people's social circles, personal preferences, cultural preferences, and other factors they may not wish to just get as huge as they can get. I don't blame them, either. Variation is a great thing, and someone who looks hot with a six pack makes me happy in my pants as well as someone who looks hot being beefy.

Like cphafner asked earlier, why do you care what other people want for their own body look? Find some self confidence to be who you are without caring whether others want to be just like you.

TwiloMike
07-16-2008, 11:16 PM
I use to compete at 6% bodyfat.I looked great and felt like ****.All the hard work I did ti get big and strong was wasted by diet.The last 4 weeks before a show,I was so ****in weak.For what?To stand in front of people in a pair of speedos and be judged?What the hell does that have to do with being a man?
What does carrying a layer of blubber have to do with being a man? :confused:


Its all about your goals.Im 16% bf right now and am 4 pants size bigger than before.But I feel good,look decent and am strong as hell for a Raw powerlifter of my size.I say **** or get off the pot.You wanna be big or cut?So much ado about absolutely nothing. As you said, it's all about one's goals: and as humanity proves time and again, people's goals differ. Your goal is not objectively superior to that of a competitive bodybuilder. In short, you are cordially invited to get over yourself.

Patriot 1776
07-16-2008, 11:28 PM
....


A Real Man holds high ethical ideals without compromise.
A Real Man is emotionally balanced. He should be able to laugh
and cry as he damn well please, and not give a **** what other
people think of him.
A Real Man can be laughed -AT- as well as laughed -WITH- and not feel
insulted, demeaned, or belittled. Words don't breat bones!
A Real Man shares his feelings with those he cares for.
A Real Man has grace under pressure and does not panic in a crisis.
A Real Man is responsible for his actions and inactions.
A Real Man takes on the burden of responsibility for those who
-cannot- shoulder a responsibility themselves *providing* he is
asked to and agrees.
A Real Man marries for life.
A Real Man surrenders his marriage gracefully if it does not work.
A Real Man loves and honors his spouse above all else.
A Real Man honors and respects *ALL* women, be she Queen or harlot.
A Real Man is sexually and emotionally responsive to his spouse or
girlfriend.
A Real Man is attentive to his spouse sexually, paying attention to
what pleases her and what does not.
A Real Man is one who respects his spouse's wishes when she says "Not
tonight, dear." He does not whine, plead, or beg.
A Real Man understands that it is not his job or duty to please
anyone other than himself, which includes his spouse, and which
also includes his spouse sexually.
A Real Man desires to please his spouse and children before himself
out of love and not guilt or a "sense of power."
A Real Man supports his spouse in her successes as well as failures.
A Real Man is kind to himself.
A Real Man does not lie.
A Real Man does not steal.
A Real Man does not cheat.
A Real Man is tolerant of dissenting opinion.
A Real Man is NOT tolerant of hate, bigotry, ignorance.
A Real Man never strikes child, woman, or man, for ANY reason, unless
in self-defense.
A Real Man is well-educated.
A Real Man is well-read.
A Real Man is clean and well-groomed.
A Real Man can cook, clean, iron, wash dishes, change a diaper, and
stay home while his spouse works for a living.
A Real Man is kind to animals and children. :-)
A Real Man helps those who ask for help.
A Real Man knows when to help someone who needs help but doesn't ask
for it.
A Real Man does *not* help someone who needs help when asked not to.

(I.e. a Real Man respects other's decisions).

BigCorey75
07-17-2008, 12:56 AM
yeah find out what ur goals are and work for them, stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on urself and the world would be a much better place


some people wanna be the next gene rychalk and bench 1000 pounds and dont care how big their gut gets some guys wanna look liek brad pitt in fight club, who cares go for what you want and work towards that and stop giving a **** about others goals



work towards your own


then ull get the true idea of the game its to strive for what you want and get it, both take tons of work and disicpline


personally im going for a leaner look now, ive been big now im trying to lean out, whoa i guess that makes me a pussy now, bull****, im the biggest stronges and most muscualr "natural" guy in my gym, but does that make me upset when someone ask me how to work their abs so they will show, no i give them advice then get back under my heavy weight,

thats what i want and they want what they want


who cares

shut up and lift

TheGMan
07-17-2008, 02:19 AM
i can understand some people getting a little pi$$ed off with people coming in the gym and saying i want this and not workign for it and posing all the time, i like to go the the gym, work out and get out but in the same breath everyone is different.

You have a bobybuilder who wuil get big and want to look good or a powerlifter who will want to get stong, who cares what i look like so you are trying to compair 2 completely different styles and some people (like me) will want to be somewhere in the middle of them both, stong as an ox but not a blubber, i dont care about abs but i do want a flat smomach and big chest, shoulders, arms.

Some people annoy me who come in the gym sit on one macine for 1 hour and in that time do 1 set!! aghhhh but still their parogotive, let them do it if it makes them happy!

VikingWarlord
07-17-2008, 03:56 AM
I'll stop by to add another "who gives a ****?"

When you're in the gym, worry about what you're doing, keep your head down and keep your god damn mouth shut. That's the way it should be.

This isn't even a debate, it's just cock-waving. Neither side will "win", whatever the **** that means. Starting something like this is just useless.

azma
07-17-2008, 04:16 AM
yeah find out what ur goals are and work for them, stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on urself and the world would be a much better place


some people wanna be the next gene rychalk and bench 1000 pounds and dont care how big their gut gets some guys wanna look liek brad pitt in fight club, who cares go for what you want and work towards that and stop giving a **** about others goals



work towards your own


then ull get the true idea of the game its to strive for what you want and get it, both take tons of work and disicpline


personally im going for a leaner look now, ive been big now im trying to lean out, whoa i guess that makes me a pussy now, bull****, im the biggest stronges and most muscualr "natural" guy in my gym, but does that make me upset when someone ask me how to work their abs so they will show, no i give them advice then get back under my heavy weight,

thats what i want and they want what they want


who cares

shut up and lift

^
Gospel right there. I have as much respect for the fat kid who busts his butt to chisel out a six-pack as I do for the skinny twerp who wants to squat 700 by any means necessary. Find your goals and go after them, and feel free to flip the bird at any dude who gives you flak for it.

Tennessee Mike
07-17-2008, 05:37 AM
I didnt say all bodybuilders are insecure.This thread was directed at young guys who claim they want size,but arent willing to do what it takes unless they can stay lean.My biggest influence in all my years of training were guys like Shawn Ray,Lee Labrada,Kevin Leverone.Bodybuilders.Some of my best friends today are bodybuilders,and they know how I feel.Bodybuilding is not an athletic competition like powerlifting is.The training is athletic,yes.But the competition is a judged contest.Not unlike miss America.Would you call that an athletic endeavor?

As far as Justin Harris goes,he is both a bodybuilder and powerlifter.I have nothing but the utmost respect for Justin and his internal drive as well as his knowledge of nutrition and training.And being a fellow Polish countrymen,Pudzianowski is pretty much my role model these days.But remember that Mariusz is an athletic competitor who benefits from being in good cardio shape and for him,keeping a low bodyfat.He's so strong that it wouldnt matter what percentage he was.


Whats funny is that its gonna take years for some of you young guys to realize that putting on weight,training heavy for low reps,and then stripping fat if you want to, is 100 x easier and more efficient then trying to do both at the same time.You have all these guys on here who are more experienced and carry much more muscle,yet you ignore their advice because of a Flex magazine article or something you read on bodybuilding.com.Half those guys arent articulate enough to write an article much less articulate it.They got their size from heavy ****in training.Ever see Lee Priest in the offseason?50lbs heavier.Every photo you see in a magazine is taken pre-contest or just after.To be honest,I dont give a **** what someone elses goals are.Im giving one mans view on the subject.Take it or leave it.

Fuzzy
07-17-2008, 06:16 AM
Lee Priest was hospitalised for dnp use. Lee cang et as damn bulked as he wants and lose 50 pounds of fat in 3 months at the most.

TwiloMike
07-17-2008, 07:38 AM
I didnt say all bodybuilders are insecure.The insecurity looks to be with you, not bodybuilders, bro.


This thread was directed at young guys who claim they want size,but arent willing to do what it takes unless they can stay lean.
From the text you wrote it appears your issue is with guys who aren't looking to be powerlifters, to train like powerlifters, and who don't want to have a perpetual layer of fat on them.


My biggest influence in all my years of training were guys like Shawn Ray,Lee Labrada,Kevin Leverone.Bodybuilders.
Should we be impressed?


Some of my best friends today are bodybuilders,and they know how I feel.
So?


Bodybuilding is not an athletic competition like powerlifting is.The training is athletic,yes.But the competition is a judged contest.Not unlike miss America.Would you call that an athletic endeavor?Is there an athletic component to getting ready for Miss America? Are the contestants judged on the results of their athleticism? Try comparing things that are comparable.


Whats funny is that its gonna take years for some of you young guys to realize that putting on weight,training heavy for low reps,and then stripping fat if you want to, is 100 x easier and more efficient then trying to do both at the same time.You have all these guys on here who are more experienced and carry much more muscle,yet you ignore their advice because of a Flex magazine article or something you read on bodybuilding.com.Half those guys arent articulate enough to write an article much less articulate it.They got their size from heavy ****in training.Ever see Lee Priest in the offseason?50lbs heavier.Every photo you see in a magazine is taken pre-contest or just after.
Most efficient training I've done has not been from the powerlifter's book: that training makes my body break. Training like a bodybuilder is proving more effective and easier on my joints. Check this out: not everyone benefits most from the same method. Durr...


To be honest,I dont give a **** what someone elses goals are.Im giving one mans view on the subject.Take it or leave it.
For someone who doesn't give a **** what someone else's goals are you sure did a lot of **** slinging at people with goals different from your. Do you even read what you write?

Tennessee Mike
07-17-2008, 08:20 AM
The insecurity looks to be with you, not bodybuilders, bro.


From the text you wrote it appears your issue is with guys who aren't looking to be powerlifters, to train like powerlifters, and who don't want to have a perpetual layer of fat on them.


Should we be impressed?


So?

Is there an athletic component to getting ready for Miss America? Are the contestants judged on the results of their athleticism? Try comparing things that are comparable.


Most efficient training I've done has not been from the powerlifter's book: that training makes my body break. Training like a bodybuilder is proving more effective and easier on my joints. Check this out: not everyone benefits most from the same method. Durr...


For someone who doesn't give a **** what someone else's goals are you sure did a lot of **** slinging at people with goals different from your. Do you even read what you write?

Im sorry I hurt your feelings.Being how powerlifting "breaks" you,you must be a fragile guy.Thats ok,keep doing your 3-4 exercises and 10-12 reps,youll go places with that.

Maybe if it was explained a little clearly,you would understand instead of breaking apart my sentences and plaing DR Phil.

In order to build muscle at an efficient rate,you must take in more calories than you need to grow.A surplus of what you take in for maintenance.You must put back more than what was there before you trained.Not the same..MORE.

You must force a muscle to grow by overload.This doesnt mean fatigue.It doesnt mean endless sets of reps to failure over and over again.It means progressive overload through strength training.The debate is not with bodybuilding vs powerlifting,its with training philosophy and misconceptions.Your statement that not everybody responds to the same things is wrong.Its a falsehood.Squats will make everyones legs grow.Rows will thicken yours and everyone elses back.Low reps and high weight will make everyone stronger.High reps and high weight will make everyone get tired faster.

Any good bodybuilder will bulk in the offseason .Any good powerlifter will implement cardio in his routine.But you ask those bodybuilders how they got big.Drugs,obviously.But they will tell you Squat,bench,deadlift.And whats that?Sounds like a powerlifting routine to me.Its guys that are afraid of getting hurt,guys that protect their back and knees to the point of rediculousness that struggle with skinny legs and a weak back their whole life.Its guys that are afraid to eat the necessary food to grow because their girlfriends wont think their hot,or they see a little spare tire and start thinking their fat that will struggle their whole life in a gym,while others are getting jacked.

Fuzzy
07-17-2008, 08:45 AM
Mike, you would think if you are 35 years old you would have a little more respect for anyone that pursues any goal. This thread is pathetic, and your reasoning is porrly explained and childish.

bjohnso
07-17-2008, 08:49 AM
Im sorry I hurt your feelings.Being how powerlifting "breaks" you,you must be a fragile guy.Thats ok,keep doing your 3-4 exercises and 10-12 reps,youll go places with that.

Maybe if it was explained a little clearly,you would understand instead of breaking apart my sentences and plaing DR Phil.

In order to build muscle at an efficient rate,you must take in more calories than you need to grow.A surplus of what you take in for maintenance.You must put back more than what was there before you trained.Not the same..MORE.

You must force a muscle to grow by overload.This doesnt mean fatigue.It doesnt mean endless sets of reps to failure over and over again.It means progressive overload through strength training.The debate is not with bodybuilding vs powerlifting,its with training philosophy and misconceptions.Your statement that not everybody responds to the same things is wrong.Its a falsehood.Squats will make everyones legs grow.Rows will thicken yours and everyone elses back.Low reps and high weight will make everyone stronger.High reps and high weight will make everyone get tired faster.

Any good bodybuilder will bulk in the offseason .Any good powerlifter will implement cardio in his routine.But you ask those bodybuilders how they got big.Drugs,obviously.But they will tell you Squat,bench,deadlift.And whats that?Sounds like a powerlifting routine to me.Its guys that are afraid of getting hurt,guys that protect their back and knees to the point of rediculousness that struggle with skinny legs and a weak back their whole life.Its guys that are afraid to eat the necessary food to grow because their girlfriends wont think their hot,or they see a little spare tire and start thinking their fat that will struggle their whole life in a gym,while others are getting jacked.

U mad?

MihalikPJ
07-17-2008, 08:55 AM
Im sorry I hurt your feelings.Being how powerlifting "breaks" you,you must be a fragile guy.Thats ok,keep doing your 3-4 exercises and 10-12 reps,youll go places with that.

Maybe if it was explained a little clearly,you would understand instead of breaking apart my sentences and plaing DR Phil.

In order to build muscle at an efficient rate,you must take in more calories than you need to grow.A surplus of what you take in for maintenance.You must put back more than what was there before you trained.Not the same..MORE.

You must force a muscle to grow by overload.This doesnt mean fatigue.It doesnt mean endless sets of reps to failure over and over again.It means progressive overload through strength training.The debate is not with bodybuilding vs powerlifting,its with training philosophy and misconceptions.Your statement that not everybody responds to the same things is wrong.Its a falsehood.Squats will make everyones legs grow.Rows will thicken yours and everyone elses back.Low reps and high weight will make everyone stronger.High reps and high weight will make everyone get tired faster.

Any good bodybuilder will bulk in the offseason .Any good powerlifter will implement cardio in his routine.But you ask those bodybuilders how they got big.Drugs,obviously.But they will tell you Squat,bench,deadlift.And whats that?Sounds like a powerlifting routine to me.Its guys that are afraid of getting hurt,guys that protect their back and knees to the point of rediculousness that struggle with skinny legs and a weak back their whole life.Its guys that are afraid to eat the necessary food to grow because their girlfriends wont think their hot,or they see a little spare tire and start thinking their fat that will struggle their whole life in a gym,while others are getting jacked.

Could you put more spaces between your sentences, please? It's hard to read with all of the words jumbled together. Thanks.

bill
07-17-2008, 09:16 AM
I think the thread started harmless enough. I'm not sure what it turned into now. I remember being pretty upset when people told me I would need to gain some fat to get bigger. I do believe TN Mike is frustrated with the same things many of you have been. Your buddy or family member asks for advice and you gladly help out. Only to find they are dismissed your advice over a PT, magazine or whatever. You do see many football players in HS wanting to get bigger to play or go to college to play, and the truth is the easiest way is by eating big and lifting heavy. Now if they are concerned about abs and such, TN Mike you have the knowledge it sounds like to help them come up with a detailed diet to gain muscle and not put on fat. It's going be tougher for you to help them reach goals (maybe) but it can be done, and they will need to be more disciplined in there training, diet, activities and all. Many high level natty bb's are staying at a lower bf level today than ever before because they have greater understand of diet and such.

JSully
07-17-2008, 09:20 AM
lol..

so the bench, squat and deadlift are attributed to powerlifting. :rolleyes:

Well..thank you powerlifters for inventing those 3 lifts.

C'mon, really?

I tried powerlifting and ****ed up my left rotator cuff, right pec, right wrist and both knees. I'm 6' and was once at 280lbs. I've benched over 450, squatted damn near 600 and deadlifted over 600.. all raw. Not great numbers given my weight, but its still an accomplishment. Point is, it HURTS to move weight that heavy. Pure and simple. Now you critisize people for not wanting to powerlift. I'll take my bodybuilding pains anyday over not being able to walk for 3 days because my knees got too taxed on my squat workout.. or not being able to move my arm because the bench just jacked my pec up again.

Now, tell me, when my goal is to see my abs, now I'm a girl? That's what you've got above..

I still have a 380 bench 450 squat and 550 deadlift, I just choose to hit those numbers sparingly, instead of every week. I know, from experience, that my body responds THE BEST to the 6-8 rep range.. not the 1-3 rep range. Sure, I get stronger with the 1-3, but I GROW more in the 6-8 rep range. I'm not making that up, I can't understand how someone of your lifting experience and intelligence can say that a lifting a certain way doesn't matter when it clearly does.

You say you must force a muscle to grow by overload. Fatigue IS overload!! I can bench 315, but I can also move 225 slow enough that it feels like 315 and get the same results.

As a seasoned vet, I would have expected you to know that strength does not equal size and vice versa..

Mad Max
07-17-2008, 11:05 AM
i remember when this chikc i was dating insulated me my junior or senior year, she called me skinny, should have back handed her as i thought i was built back then.

A girl insulated you in your junior or senior year?? That sounds quite pleasurable. Seriously though insulated isn't even a typo of insulted, unless you have eight fingers on each hand.

To those that do take issue with people who don't want to get big, don't you have friends, brothers, maybe even children who have absolutely no interest in this whole scene? Do you honestly despise them for being weak and skinny?

I don't want to get into a philosophical debate about virtuousness, but needless to say I have been repeatedly disappointed by how shallow and un virtuous a lot of big strong guys are. Sorry but I think some people (and I'm not necessarily directing this towards anyone in this thread) have a very misguided sense of manliness. Sure strength and size are admirable qualities, but only when coupled with a personality that has a sense of modesty and common empathy.

Alan Turing, a pioneering computer scientist who helped break Nazi codes during WW2 was gay skinny and liked jogging. Despite playing a huge individual role in defeting the Nazis, he was prosecuted for being gay and eventually killed himself. He was a real man. Off topic I know, but the general undercurrent of a lot of these threads is that being big, strong and stoic are the only virtues really worth a damn in a man, which isn't in the least bit true.

Tennessee Mike
07-17-2008, 11:42 AM
Mike, you would think if you are 35 years old you would have a little more respect for anyone that pursues any goal. This thread is pathetic, and your reasoning is porrly explained and childish.

Respect is earned.How bout respect your elders?As far as my reasoning,trust me,theres a hell of alot of successful BB's and PL's that share the view.As for the rest of the cocky kids that disrespect those who have forgotten more than you know...

I officially rename this forum Wanna Stay Small.

markdk86
07-17-2008, 11:44 AM
The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.


Come on, you have to admit Brad Pitt..... **** I'd it it. :thumbup:

markdk86
07-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Funny how you make so many accusations of this forum when you have been here 1-2 months, while many of the people replying to this thread have been here for years. Does the forum have kids coming in looking for advice for their routines from FLEX or MUSCLE MAG? Yes, but this is ALL weightlifting forums. Everyone starts somewhere. Not everyone is going to change. Give them advice and move along, it is up to them to use it.

I don't understand why you come here or even care what other people think. You speak about being a man, so turn of The View and get your ass in the gym, Nancy.

Tennessee Mike
07-17-2008, 12:58 PM
Funny how you make so many accusations of this forum when you have been here 1-2 months, while many of the people replying to this thread have been here for years. Does the forum have kids coming in looking for advice for their routines from FLEX or MUSCLE MAG? Yes, but this is ALL weightlifting forums. Everyone starts somewhere. Not everyone is going to change. Give them advice and move along, it is up to them to use it.

I don't understand why you come here or even care what other people think. You speak about being a man, so turn of The View and get your ass in the gym, Nancy.

Nancy?Whats that from 1935?Im sorry I rocked your boat fella.

Are you kidding me?"Why did you come here?"We've been here longer".If thats not the gayest ****ing thing I've heard all day.Its a FORUM!I dont give a damn if youve been here since 2005.Or if your a "Senior" member.What does that mean?Youve paid some kind of dues sitting on your ass and critisizing guys like me?What a tool.As far as advice goes,I suggest you check my other posts.And being how Im a trainer,I give advice all day.It was my mistake to believe we were all grown men here that could discuss things without getting feelings hurt.Ive never seen so many defensive little children.So touchy.But good for comic relief.

markdk86
07-17-2008, 01:05 PM
Nancy?Whats that from 1935?Im sorry I rocked your boat fella.

Are you kidding me?"Why did you come here?"We've been here longer".If thats not the gayest ****ing thing I've heard all day.Its a FORUM!I dont give a damn if youve been here since 2005.Or if your a "Senior" member.What does that mean?Youve paid some kind of dues sitting on your ass and critisizing guys like me?What a tool.As far as advice goes,I suggest you check my other posts.And being how Im a trainer,I give advice all day.It was my mistake to believe we were all grown men here that could discuss things without getting feelings hurt.Ive never seen so many defensive little children.So touchy.But good for comic relief.


The whole length of time being here has to do with the scrutinizing remarks on judging other members when you haven't even been here long enough to judge this place or come to know some of its members. You may have interpreted it incorrectly or I should have been more clear. I just don't know why you came here if you are going to be a dick.

As for "Nancy", it was a play on your lumberjack mentality and referring to certain kinds of people as pansies, but I guess a play on works could not be understood by a big burly man like yourself :rolleyes:

Jorge Sanchez
07-17-2008, 01:11 PM
Let's stop the hate, guys. This conversation is no longer productive and certainly has nothing to do with diet and nutrition. There's no need for name calling.

Kong
07-17-2008, 01:51 PM
I'm just gonna add that i hate emo's and at 23 have just lost the obsession with trying to be cut up (which stemmed from being bullied as a child and suffering from depression for years). Now ive finally stopped caring and started eating more ive gained more confidence and even at a fairly high body fat i still get compliments on my appearance which makes me think i look good. Mike, you're pretty much me in a few years from the sounds of it, appearance and everything (although im nowhere near as big...yet!) and it's nice to see that someone shares the views that i have now. My town has a massive emo/poser scene and me and my friends are pretty much the only people that have retained our integrity music and appearance wise and havent just changed to look cool/conform with the latest trend.

JSully
07-17-2008, 01:55 PM
the hate was begun with the very first post, scrutinizing others for low bodyfat goals..

Tennessee Mike
07-17-2008, 01:59 PM
I'm just gonna add that i hate emo's and at 23 have just lost the obsession with trying to be cut up (which stemmed from being bullied as a child and suffering from depression for years). Now ive finally stopped caring and started eating more ive gained more confidence and even at a fairly high body fat i still get compliments on my appearance which makes me think i look good. Mike, you're pretty much me in a few years from the sounds of it, appearance and everything (although im nowhere near as big...yet!) and it's nice to see that someone shares the views that i have now. My town has a massive emo/poser scene and me and my friends are pretty much the only people that have retained our integrity music and appearance wise and havent just changed to look cool/conform with the latest trend.

Kong,thanks for the support.And by the looks of it your well on your way to being a monster.Those are some good numbers,especially the deadlift.(Not too far from mine).And Im with ya,**** Emo!

RazorsEdge
07-17-2008, 02:31 PM
this thread has gotten so pointless. I dont think anyone has actually read into this right. Mike is mearly complaining on what he sees being a trainer everyday and being a part time trainer myself I know what he is talking about. I have young clients come to me all the time wanting to be big and loose weight all at the same time. They work hard and see no results but they dont eat because they want to loose weight. As mike has said before you either do one or the other get big or cut and I have heard loads of other trainers tell me it is so much easier to cut once you have put on some mass and want to get lean muscle. Mike is an OG in lifting and he believes in what he belives which is the old school blow the **** up lifting. This happenes with every sport out there the OGs get heated because the new younger guys come in wanting everything to be easy and just jumping to the good stuff without putting in the hard work and the basics that will hurt you in the end. Think about any sport you do and its all the same and I see it first hand
**** emo and Ill take Kate Hudson!!

Kong
07-17-2008, 02:42 PM
I wasted nearly 3 years of training by either not training or eating properly because i wanted to look 'good' by societies/the medias standards and i think its wrong now that children are made to feel like that especially children that are more impressionable and suffer from problems (like me with depression and low self esteem from bullying). When i was younger seeing people that had six packs in all the magazines made me think that it was the norm and that i had to look like that to be accepted like all the popular kids at school. I always struggled with sports aswell due to suffering from athma and a hole in my heart and got grief of others for not performing as well. Weight traing made me realise that i could be better than all the sporty cool kids than something. Now ive realised that im better than that cause the big guys who dont care are the cool ones! I could rant all day but im behaving myself! I love being big and strong with a belly!

bjohnso
07-17-2008, 03:19 PM
Mike, are you sponsored by Atlarge?

RazorsEdge
07-17-2008, 03:29 PM
Mike, are you sponsored by Atlarge?

I have a feeling youre going to be refering to the 2 guys on the front page wit abs...

bjohnso
07-17-2008, 03:45 PM
I have a feeling youre going to be refering to the 2 guys on the front page wit abs...

Come again?

JSully
07-17-2008, 04:35 PM
Mike, are you sponsored by Atlarge?
lol



Come again?
there are two ripped up guys on the front page of atlarge's site..

bjohnso
07-17-2008, 04:55 PM
lol



there are two ripped up guys on the front page of atlarge's site..

Ahhh. I wouldn't know, since I don't buy from Atlarge any more.

Tennessee Mike
07-17-2008, 04:56 PM
Much respect to RazorsEdge and Kong for understanding where Im coming from.

When did this turn into me against abs?How do you know I dont have a six pack?You dont.Once again,this was directed at young guys who are more concerned with appearance than maximizing potential.Thats it.The rest of you turned it into a Bodybuilding/Powerlifting war.Blame yourself for that.

JSully
07-17-2008, 05:02 PM
The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.

That's when it turned into you against abs. That's you blatantly demeaning the "sport" of bodybuilding.

Everyone has different opinions and goals. For me, it's easy to get big and strong. Just eat and lift and watch both my belly and my muscles grow. It's a challenge to get my bodyfat down under 10% and that's what I thrive on.

Granted, this thread may have been towards younger lifters, but the post that you posted above is a generalization for anybody to pickup on and is the endless argument of bodybuilding vs powerlifting..

To say someone worried about their size instead of their strength is less "manly" than someone worried about their strength over their size is absurd. That's a insult to all of bodybuilding.

TopCat
07-17-2008, 05:21 PM
Everyone has different goals in life and different ways of meeting said goals. Why get all caught up about it? Just like you frown upon body building I frown upon the hardcore powerlifters that would do anything for an extra lb on a lift. Thats an opinion though and I don't really care to hold it against anyone. Who cares if some dude wants to dress like a girl; it doesn't really matter unless they are offending you in same way.

JDP
07-17-2008, 06:35 PM
im 20 years old, i started out at 140lbs, now im a little over 160, and im going to keep trying to add more but im not trying to bulk up and get a belly or look sloppy, i want to stay cut, i do care about my bf %, im trying to stay lean, but i also train MMA, so i could be an acception.

not everybody wants to be a body builder, powerlifter, ect. some people just want to stay in shape and try to look good, maybe for others, or maybe for themselves. who cares, everybody has their different reasons for lifting

VikingWarlord
07-17-2008, 07:27 PM
Respect is earned.How bout respect your elders?

You just said that respect is earned. Just because you've managed to not die for longer than someone else doesn't earn you that respect.

The fact that every post you've made in this thread is inflammatory and only conveys "everyone who isn't a powerlifter is useless" hasn't showed that you're worthy of anyone's respect except those that share those opinions, since all you're doing is alienating everyone else. I don't know if you're expecting everyone to magically decide that you're right and they're wrong, but that just won't happen.

Live and let live. Everyone will do what he wants. If your problem is with kids being stupid, guess what, Sparky? KIDS ARE ****ING STUPID AND YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT. Welcome to the real world.

It's time to let this thing die.

WillKuenzel
07-17-2008, 07:51 PM
Nobody earns respect over the internet. If y'all have useful opinions and advice, those are welcome, but condescending posts and threads towards others, their views and their opinions are not.