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BFGUITAR
07-19-2008, 12:00 AM
Are there any global PLing competitions? And does anyone know if PLing will/could make it to the Olympics? From my limited knowledge is seems PLing is very constrained to your country and is not very global.

nhlfan
07-19-2008, 12:10 AM
There is a World's competition in the IPF, I know that much.

deeder
07-19-2008, 03:06 AM
The IPF is the only true international federation. If any federation will make it in to the olympics it will be the IPF because it follows the WADA drug testing standards and because it has a good representation of the international powerlifting community at it's Worlds.

Buffman
07-19-2008, 03:32 AM
Are there any global PLing competitions? And does anyone know if PLing will/could make it to the Olympics? From my limited knowledge is seems PLing is very constrained to your country and is not very global.

Yes deeder is correct.
Our Country the USA has numerous federations which are mostly very small.
The two largest being USAPL(USA Powerlfiting) and NASA(Natural Athlete Strength Association). I believe WABDL is probably in third as far as size.
The point being that USA Powerlifting is the USA represenative to the Official Powerlifting World Championships...The IPF ( International Powerlifting Federation)!

The IPF is working with the IOC (International Olympic Committee) to gain acceptance into the Olympics. Powerlifting is already a full member of the World Games, which is ran by the IOC and is the next step before being in the Olympics. The ONLY thing that seems to be holding Powerlifitng back from gainning entrance into the Olympics is Weightlifting. From my understanding the IOC is not in favor of adding another lifitng sport to the Olympics. Which is fine, but the problem is how extremely unpopular weightlifting is in comparison to Powerlifting. Weightlifting has a very limited appeal because so few actually perform the movements involved. On the other hand Powerlifting is almost universally performed with the Squat, Bench and Deadlift! Personally I believe Weightlifting is on its last legs in the Olympics, much like Baseballl and Softball are no longer Olympic Sports after this year.
The reason is because like baseball and softball, weightlifting is a limited appeal sport that very few perform or is only competed a very few countries.

I hope this helps.

I believe the IPF has 135 or more member nations/countries and has 5 Regional Championships(Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania, North America, South America)!

The IPF is the only TRUE WORLD Championships in Powerlifitng!

Fuzzy
07-19-2008, 08:32 AM
Yes deeder is correct.
Our Country the USA has numerous federations which are mostly very small.
The two largest being USAPL(USA Powerlfiting) and NASA(Natural Athlete Strength Association). I believe WABDL is probably in third as far as size.
The point being that USA Powerlifting is the USA represenative to the Official Powerlifting World Championships...The IPF ( International Powerlifting Federation)!

The IPF is working with the IOC (International Olympic Committee) to gain acceptance into the Olympics. Powerlifting is already a full member of the World Games, which is ran by the IOC and is the next step before being in the Olympics. The ONLY thing that seems to be holding Powerlifitng back from gainning entrance into the Olympics is Weightlifting. From my understanding the IOC is not in favor of adding another lifitng sport to the Olympics. Which is fine, but the problem is how extremely unpopular weightlifting is in comparison to Powerlifting. Weightlifting has a very limited appeal because so few actually perform the movements involved. On the other hand Powerlifting is almost universally performed with the Squat, Bench and Deadlift! Personally I believe Weightlifting is on its last legs in the Olympics, much like Baseballl and Softball are no longer Olympic Sports after this year.
The reason is because like baseball and softball, weightlifting is a limited appeal sport that very few perform or is only competed a very few countries.

I hope this helps.

I believe the IPF has 135 or more member nations/countries and has 5 Regional Championships(Europe, Africa, Asia, Oceania, North America, South America)!

The IPF is the only TRUE WORLD Championships in Powerlifitng!

As long as gear exists in the sport, powerlifting will never be let into the Olympics. People do not understand geared powerlifting... yes yes, all the powerlifters will keep repeating that 'shirts are part of the sport' however think about it like this. Who the **** wants to watch a sport where a shirt lifts the weight for you?

Now, I KNOW this isnt true about geared lifting but to the average person this is the only question that will be asked about those 'funny shirts. Us lifters know that 600 pounds in a single ply is incredible but to Joe and Jill 'the shirt did it for him'

Olympic lifting is epic to watch, the weight goes from the floor to overhead, the ROM is massive, again, this is part of the appeal. Even IPF lifters will arch more to bench less distance, squat wider to travel less and any other tricks. This is nowhere near as cool as big weights hurled over head. Even though my preffered sport makes my argument unbalanced, any powerlifter has to admit this, to the normal everyday person Olympic lifter is funner to watch.

Your views on the popularity of Olympic Weightlifting are extremely narrow and focus only on the US. Have you considered eastern Europe and Asia? How can you say that Olympic weightlifting is a declining sport, maybe in Western countries but in China, Russia, Bulgaria etc ALL athletes do Olympic weightlifting under a coach for their strength training. Going the the gym is as simple as going to your local weightlifting centre. Even in the US any serious track athlete will spend considerable time doing the Olympic lifts. My teamate is currently housing a hammer thrower from the US and the entire track team is heavily Olympic lifting based. There is no decent athlete that will purely do the powerlifts.

EDIT: And so what if more people can bench, squat and deadlift than snatch and clean and jerk? This is elite sports we are talking about, not the largest social club. The elite compete at the highest levels in either sports, not everyone.

Anther compeltely seperate argument is the carry over of PURE powerlifting techniques to sports. Olympic methods will always be more useful to an athlete than pure powerlifting, even if Olympic weightlifting itself as a sport is declining, the carry over to sports will keep it alive.

Powerlifting has a very long way to go before it enters the Olympics. Its not an Olympic sport, WADA regulations or not, do not think for a minute there is anywhere near the testing as there is on weightlifters. I am not saying there are no unclean weightlifters but the IPF would have to do some serious mopping up. I have discussed this in depth with a WADA official, until powerlifting is in the Olympics, it will never be a true WADA priority, and until powerlifting becomes a WADA priority, it will never be allowed in the Olympics.

Introducing powerlifting to the Olympics, even under the IPF is too hard and bothersome and will kill strength sports all together. Personally, I dont give two ****s, whatever someone is benching has no effect on my performance in the snatch.

However... the Olympic IPF champion will never be a true champion of his sport, there are other lifters and other federations, no IPF lifter can ever say they were the GREATEST powerlifter at the time. Winning the Olympics or World Championships means you are the best, without a doubt and with no debate. Can an IPF, WPO, or IPA champion ever say that? Take a look at the never ending inter federation arguments about the alltime best lifts. Who had the best squat, maybe it was because they had this rule but not this one. In Olympic lifting we KNOW the bigggest SHW official competetion snatch is 216 and the biggest clean and jerk is 265.

It won't happen.

Lones Green
07-19-2008, 11:17 AM
As long as gear exists in the sport, powerlifting will never be let into the Olympics. People do not understand geared powerlifting... yes yes, all the powerlifters will keep repeating that 'shirts are part of the sport' however think about it like this. Who the **** wants to watch a sport where a shirt lifts the weight for you?

Now, I KNOW this isnt true about geared lifting but to the average person this is the only question that will be asked about those 'funny shirts. Us lifters know that 600 pounds in a single ply is incredible but to Joe and Jill 'the shirt did it for him'

Olympic lifting is epic to watch, the weight goes from the floor to overhead, the ROM is massive, again, this is part of the appeal. Even IPF lifters will arch more to bench less distance, squat wider to travel less and any other tricks. This is nowhere near as cool as big weights hurled over head. Even though my preffered sport makes my argument unbalanced, any powerlifter has to admit this, to the normal everyday person Olympic lifter is funner to watch.

Your views on the popularity of Olympic Weightlifting are extremely narrow and focus only on the US. Have you considered eastern Europe and Asia? How can you say that Olympic weightlifting is a declining sport, maybe in Western countries but in China, Russia, Bulgaria etc ALL athletes do Olympic weightlifting under a coach for their strength training. Going the the gym is as simple as going to your local weightlifting centre. Even in the US any serious track athlete will spend considerable time doing the Olympic lifts. My teamate is currently housing a hammer thrower from the US and the entire track team is heavily Olympic lifting based. There is no decent athlete that will purely do the powerlifts.

EDIT: And so what if more people can bench, squat and deadlift than snatch and clean and jerk? This is elite sports we are talking about, not the largest social club. The elite compete at the highest levels in either sports, not everyone.

Anther compeltely seperate argument is the carry over of PURE powerlifting techniques to sports. Olympic methods will always be more useful to an athlete than pure powerlifting, even if Olympic weightlifting itself as a sport is declining, the carry over to sports will keep it alive.

Powerlifting has a very long way to go before it enters the Olympics. Its not an Olympic sport, WADA regulations or not, do not think for a minute there is anywhere near the testing as there is on weightlifters. I am not saying there are no unclean weightlifters but the IPF would have to do some serious mopping up. I have discussed this in depth with a WADA official, until powerlifting is in the Olympics, it will never be a true WADA priority, and until powerlifting becomes a WADA priority, it will never be allowed in the Olympics.

Introducing powerlifting to the Olympics, even under the IPF is too hard and bothersome and will kill strength sports all together. Personally, I dont give two ****s, whatever someone is benching has no effect on my performance in the snatch.

However... the Olympic IPF champion will never be a true champion of his sport, there are other lifters and other federations, no IPF lifter can ever say they were the GREATEST powerlifter at the time. Winning the Olympics or World Championships means you are the best, without a doubt and with no debate. Can an IPF, WPO, or IPA champion ever say that? Take a look at the never ending inter federation arguments about the alltime best lifts. Who had the best squat, maybe it was because they had this rule but not this one. In Olympic lifting we KNOW the bigggest SHW official competetion snatch is 216 and the biggest clean and jerk is 265.

It won't happen.

agreed! powerlifting is just not the kind of sport to take america by storm.

Ruffian
07-19-2008, 01:23 PM
Ah, the good ol' powerlifting in the olympics debate.

Now, seeing as I am an equestrian as well I cannot resist but draw this comparison. Equestrian sports are huge in the olympics, however, most people argue that the horse does most of the work. So how is it any different with someone using a shirt to help to not only protect themselves but give them a little bit more of a boost (to put up bigger numbers and perhaps attract more viewers) when there is some other person sitting on the back of a horse that is jumping over 6 ft jumps. I am an equestrian and I am one of few who knows that it is hard work for the horseback rider as well, but the IPF is nothing like the WPO when it comes to gear. Yes, they help you come out of the hole and can add a lot to your lifts (if you know how to use them) but if you do not have the strength within your body to lift that bar then you wont. Period. There is by no means a shirt that lifts the weight for you. This is not a denim, open backed, triple ply federation-- we use single ply, closed back, not demin/canvas gear. And while some of the materials (IE. King) are getting a lot stronger and more severe, there is no reason that power lifting should be held back simply because of gear.

Fuzzy, you are biased naturally - as perhaps are we- but the fact of the matter is olympic lifting is diminishing where Powerlifting is growing. Have YOU Stopped to consider how huge powerlifting is in Europe? Its growing there by incredible dimensions, and while North America is lagging behind, it is a developing sport - and one that will one day be vying for the olympic position that olympic weightlifting holds. Im not saying that olympic weightlifting is not impressive, or interesting, but the fact of the matter is that the olympics are starting to turn to a 'bigger is better' ideal. Sports are changing, and they are starting to turn over a lot of the older sports that were once very popular. For example, baseball which was once very popular is on its last stretch, but yet there are numerous new additions to the olympics like the triathlon (recently inducted in 2000), and the half dozen sports that they trial every olympics. If something like powerboating can become a recognized sport by the IOC vying for olympic position, how on earth can you honestly say that powerlifting should not be included?

Keep in mind that a hundred fifty years ago Tug of War was an olympic sport that boasted several large federations and worldwide popularity. Now it has turned into something people do in their spare time at summer camps. There is no permanence with sport, its like anything else - they all phase in and out of popularity. To someone like you, who may believe Olympic lifting is 'epic' to watch, others may be more interested in the sheer weight that is moved by some of the elite level powerlifters..... And that is something which olympic lifting simply cannot compare itself to. While the ROM in weightlifting is huge, most people will flip past that on the television, however, with powerlifting someone might stop and stare and say "That guy is squatting 800lbs!!!! THATS INSANE!" And that pause might be enough to garner even more interest in the sport. So many people talk themselves out of this sport with false beliefs about the strength of the gear we use and the lack of testing. The IPF has been getting more and more strict in their testing methods and that will continue to happen until we are inducted as an Olympic sport, it is now at (I believe) the highest level of testing (At least in CAnada). As blood testing has finally become a part of the testing regime, and as far as I know, (apart from hair samples) there is only urine and blood to be tested. And HAir samples will pick up minute traces of drugs used in years past, while blood is much more accurate for the immediate.

Anyways, sorry to continue the debate I just thought it might be good to clear up some of the confusions regarding the olympics and sport permanency.

Fuzzy
07-19-2008, 07:27 PM
me and you know that the gear will add some safety and a bit me bounce, but the average person doesn't know that. All people would talk about is how the gear lifted the weight for someone.

deeder
07-19-2008, 07:40 PM
Fuzzy, when people watch my competition vids they ask me why I am holding my arms out so funny while I set up to bench or why I walk like a zombie out to the platform for my squat attempts... Most people don't even know that such as thing as powerlifting equipment exists.

vdizenzo
07-19-2008, 08:39 PM
me and you know that the gear will add some safety and a bit me bounce, but the average person doesn't know that. All people would talk about is how the gear lifted the weight for someone.

When I competed in the Bench America which was nationally televised nobody in the commentary even mentioned the bench shirts. We just competed. I got phone calls from strangers who found my number from directory assistance, saying how cool that was. The people who make gear a big deal are powerlifters. So you can keep perpetuating the problem. I never hear people complaing about strongman who wear suits to squat and deadlift on various events or use straps to deadlift. The public does not know any better. They are just impressed as they should be. Thank you for being part of the problem.

vdizenzo
07-19-2008, 08:43 PM
I don't want powerlifting to be an Olympic sport. I want it to be a professional sport. I have won/made money from this sport, why would I want to do it for free. In addition, I would not be able to afford the fancy drugs and techniques to beat the tests. The Olympics is not about competing clean, it's about testing clean. If you don't believe that then you are incredibly naive.

strongkid963
07-19-2008, 08:44 PM
^^^^true^^^^ and
i dont think powerlifting will ever be in the olympics.

Travis Bell
07-19-2008, 08:59 PM
I sure hope not. Like Vin said, if we could get it to where we could make a living at it that'd be sweet. Dream come true.

Personally I don't really care what the average joe thinks about me or my gear, but I do think that if the sport was better known and more people were educated on the subject it'd make more sense to them. After all, there was a time when each of us didn't understand gear but we picked it up fairly quickly

But for now, I'm very happy to lift just as I am and pit myself against the best in the sport in an effort to improve myself and get stronger over time.

Notorious
07-19-2008, 09:05 PM
As long as gear exists in the sport, powerlifting will never be let into the Olympics. People do not understand geared powerlifting... yes yes, all the powerlifters will keep repeating that 'shirts are part of the sport' however think about it like this. Who the **** wants to watch a sport where a shirt lifts the weight for you?

Now, I KNOW this isnt true about geared lifting but to the average person this is the only question that will be asked about those 'funny shirts. Us lifters know that 600 pounds in a single ply is incredible but to Joe and Jill 'the shirt did it for him'

Olympic lifting is epic to watch, the weight goes from the floor to overhead, the ROM is massive, again, this is part of the appeal. Even IPF lifters will arch more to bench less distance, squat wider to travel less and any other tricks. This is nowhere near as cool as big weights hurled over head. Even though my preffered sport makes my argument unbalanced, any powerlifter has to admit this, to the normal everyday person Olympic lifter is funner to watch.

Your views on the popularity of Olympic Weightlifting are extremely narrow and focus only on the US. Have you considered eastern Europe and Asia? How can you say that Olympic weightlifting is a declining sport, maybe in Western countries but in China, Russia, Bulgaria etc ALL athletes do Olympic weightlifting under a coach for their strength training. Going the the gym is as simple as going to your local weightlifting centre. Even in the US any serious track athlete will spend considerable time doing the Olympic lifts. My teamate is currently housing a hammer thrower from the US and the entire track team is heavily Olympic lifting based. There is no decent athlete that will purely do the powerlifts.

EDIT: And so what if more people can bench, squat and deadlift than snatch and clean and jerk? This is elite sports we are talking about, not the largest social club. The elite compete at the highest levels in either sports, not everyone.

Anther compeltely seperate argument is the carry over of PURE powerlifting techniques to sports. Olympic methods will always be more useful to an athlete than pure powerlifting, even if Olympic weightlifting itself as a sport is declining, the carry over to sports will keep it alive.

Powerlifting has a very long way to go before it enters the Olympics. Its not an Olympic sport, WADA regulations or not, do not think for a minute there is anywhere near the testing as there is on weightlifters. I am not saying there are no unclean weightlifters but the IPF would have to do some serious mopping up. I have discussed this in depth with a WADA official, until powerlifting is in the Olympics, it will never be a true WADA priority, and until powerlifting becomes a WADA priority, it will never be allowed in the Olympics.

Introducing powerlifting to the Olympics, even under the IPF is too hard and bothersome and will kill strength sports all together. Personally, I dont give two ****s, whatever someone is benching has no effect on my performance in the snatch.

However... the Olympic IPF champion will never be a true champion of his sport, there are other lifters and other federations, no IPF lifter can ever say they were the GREATEST powerlifter at the time. Winning the Olympics or World Championships means you are the best, without a doubt and with no debate. Can an IPF, WPO, or IPA champion ever say that? Take a look at the never ending inter federation arguments about the alltime best lifts. Who had the best squat, maybe it was because they had this rule but not this one. In Olympic lifting we KNOW the bigggest SHW official competetion snatch is 216 and the biggest clean and jerk is 265.

It won't happen.

Honestly, I don't think gear is the problem. Most people have no idea it exists and it's really not too visible. And I don't think that ANYONE is stupid enough to believe that a suit is lifting 1000+ lbs by itself.

The bigger problem, IMO (to the public, not me) is the ROM. It's much more visibly appealing to see a lifter move weight from the ground to overhead than pressing weight 6 inches off his gut (again, not agreeing w/ this). You see comments like this ALL the time on youtube, for example.

Also, is there a reason both Olympic lifting and PLing can't be in the Olympics?

Hazerboy
07-20-2008, 12:49 AM
As long as gear exists in the sport, powerlifting will never be let into the Olympics. People do not understand geared powerlifting... yes yes, all the powerlifters will keep repeating that 'shirts are part of the sport' however think about it like this. Who the **** wants to watch a sport where a shirt lifts the weight for you?....

Now, I KNOW this isnt true about geared lifting but to the average person this is the only question that will be asked about those 'funny shirts. Us lifters know that 600 pounds in a single ply is incredible but to Joe and Jill 'the shirt did it for him'

Olympic lifting is epic to watch, the weight goes from the floor to overhead, the ROM is massive, again, this is part of the appeal. Even IPF lifters will arch more to bench less distance, squat wider to travel less and any other tricks. This is nowhere near as cool as big weights hurled over head. Even though my preffered sport makes my argument unbalanced, any powerlifter has to admit this, to the normal everyday person Olympic lifter is funner to watch.


Oh come on man, now you're just making wild ass assumptions.
No one really knows what the "public's" reaction to powerlifting will be -- all anyone here has is what they think (blah blah or blah blah is more impressive), which is meaningless because we're all too biased anyways. You can talk all day long about ROM, gear, or whatever, and in the end powerlifters lift more weight. Whose to say which would be more impressive to the public? You? Do you really know what billions of people think, or would think? Thats pretty audacious.

Seriously, you could use a similiar argument for any sport: I think sport a is more impressive than sport b because of this and this and this, which is more impressive because I think so. Whose to say whats really impressive? Just look at some of the ridiculous sports out there in the olympics already - badmitten, curling - somebody, SOMEWHERE thinks they're impressive enough to watch.

From my stance, whats keeping powerlifting out of the olympics are drugs, public ignorance about the sport, and the ****load of other sports in the olympics already. Every sport has gear, and it doesn't take an expert to know that gear alone doesn't make you a champion. I may not have used tiger's ten thousand dollar clubs, but I know that even if I did I wouldn't win a masters. Take away the gear and you'd have the same guys on the podium (though maybe not in the same order :-p )

as far as the olympics keeping powerlifting from becoming a pro sport, who knokws. maybe, maybe not. there's all sorts of sports that have olympic champions and well paid pros - tennis and boxing, for example.





Anther compeltely seperate argument is the carry over of PURE powerlifting techniques to sports. Olympic methods will always be more useful to an athlete than pure powerlifting, even if Olympic weightlifting itself as a sport is declining, the carry over to sports will keep it alive.

seriously? thats just pure fanboyism. Now you're not only making assumptions about what people think, but what they do. Honestly I have no idea what amount of pro/ high school athletes use olympic lifting vs. powerlifting training to get stronger, and you don't either(which would be a good way of determining which sport gives better sports carryover). You would need a ton of statistics to back up that statement.

from my personal experience it takes too damn long to teach a high school athlete snatch or c/j before they start seeing gains. i mean, hardly anyone can even squat right. And at the elite level? Again, i don't know much about it, but joe defranco is a pretty credible elite trainer and he uses all sorts of stuff from powerlifting and westside. check out his website: http://www.defrancostraining.com/



However... the Olympic IPF champion will never be a true champion of his sport, there are other lifters and other federations, no IPF lifter can ever say they were the GREATEST powerlifter at the time. Winning the Olympics or World Championships means you are the best, without a doubt and with no debate. Can an IPF, WPO, or IPA champion ever say that? Take a look at the never ending inter federation arguments about the alltime best lifts. Who had the best squat, maybe it was because they had this rule but not this one. In Olympic lifting we KNOW the bigggest SHW official competetion snatch is 216 and the biggest clean and jerk is 265.

It won't happen.

And now you're making wild assumptions about the future too. you're right, currently and IPF champion can't say he is the real champion of his sport like you can in olympic lifting. But put the IPF in the olympics, and thats a huge incentive to start training in that federation. i'm willing to bet that a lot of the other feds would see a pretty big drop in membership if it ever happens. and who knows, maybe one day a powerlifter will be able to say he's at the top.


Olympic lifting is great, I enjoy watching it, and I have a lot of respect for its athletes. However, just because its already in the olympics doesn't mean its *better,* that the olympics has only enough room for one lifting sport, or that its more impressive.

Invain
07-20-2008, 01:06 AM
me and you know that the gear will add some safety and a bit me bounce, but the average person doesn't know that. All people would talk about is how the gear lifted the weight for someone.

You and I also both know that VERY few poeple actually use gear for real safety purposes. When guys are getting 300 - 400 lbs out of a shirt/suit, I'd say any safety benefits have been far outweighed long ago.

In my opinion, the average person's assumption is correct about powerlifting. Geared lifting, that is.

Travis Bell
07-20-2008, 06:52 AM
LOL yes, we're all getting 300 and 400lbs out of our shirts.


Its comments like this that are just ridiculous.

MPB
07-20-2008, 07:11 AM
One isn't really better than the other, and it really annoys me to see an argument like that.

Gears are part of the sport, just like any other sport out there (baseball, basketball, football)
What's incredible and seriously impressive is being able to handle hundreds of pounds more than what their bodies are capaple of. That takes guts.

strongkid963
07-20-2008, 07:22 AM
You and I also both know that VERY few poeple actually use gear for real safety purposes. When guys are getting 300 - 400 lbs out of a shirt/suit, I'd say any safety benefits have been far outweighed long ago.

In my opinion, the average person's assumption is correct about powerlifting. Geared lifting, that is.

which squat suit gives you 400 lbs??

Fuzzy
07-20-2008, 08:14 AM
One isn't really better than the other, and it really annoys me to see an argument like that.

Gears are part of the sport, just like any other sport out there (baseball, basketball, football)
What's incredible and seriously impressive is being able to handle hundreds of pounds more than what their bodies are capaple of. That takes guts.

No, powerlifting gear is different than any other sport, and the concept is rather unique.

We KNOW that suits are hard, they they still requie immense strength, but what sperates the critics from the general public? Nothing. SO many people will just bitch about the shirts and suits.

RedSpikeyThing
07-20-2008, 08:26 AM
so what about raw lifting in the olympics?

I think that would be cool because the average Joe probably spent some time in a gym and at least have some comprehension of how heavy a 500 lb bench press is.

Fuzzy
07-20-2008, 09:09 AM
so what about raw lifting in the olympics?

I think that would be cool because the average Joe probably spent some time in a gym and at least have some comprehension of how heavy a 500 lb bench press is.

Possibly, but I think the injury rate would be insane. Gear does keep you after after all.

BFGUITAR
07-20-2008, 10:25 AM
Wow guys I learned a hell of a lot from this thread. lol

Why people would think PLing is more cool than OLY

1) More weight on he bar
2) Everyone can relate to a bench press
3) The screaming, excitement, motivation, and sheering pumping up. (I dont know if this would be the same in an Olympic setting)

Why people would think OLY lifting is more cool than PLing

1) Weight is flying
2) The lifts are unique and different. OH lifting is a very difficult thing to do and I think anyone could relate to it. Plus the sight of a person raising their arms above their head with 500 lbs is incredible. To think... usually when people are happy they raise their arms in excitement... There's no better way to say your the best than with ridiculous weight above your head.


To be honest... it would a nice sight to see two of the worlds strongest people one from Olympic lifting and the other from Powerlifting standing together with gold metals around their neck. It would definitely bring the two lifting communities closer together.

Fuzzy
07-20-2008, 10:27 AM
Wow guys I learned a hell of a lot from this thread. lol

Why people would think PLing is more cool than OLY

1) More weight on he bar
2) Everyone can relate to a bench press
3) The screaming, excitement, motivation, and sheering pumping up. (I dont know if this would be the same in an Olympic setting)

Why people would think OLY lifting is more cool than PLing

1) Weight is flying
2) The lifts are unique and different. OH lifting is a very difficult thing to do and I think anyone could relate to it. Plus the sight of a person raising their arms above their head with 500 lbs is incredible. To think... usually when people are happy they raise their arms in excitement... There's no better way to say your the best than with ridiculous weight above your head.


To be honest... it would a nice sight to see two of the worlds strongest people one from Olympic lifting and the other from Powerlifting standing together with gold metals around their neck. It would definitely bring the two lifting communities closer together.

True, I wish there was more of a mash but elitists on both sides complicate things.

Ruffian
07-20-2008, 12:41 PM
me and you know that the gear will add some safety and a bit me bounce, but the average person doesn't know that. All people would talk about is how the gear lifted the weight for someone.
I dont believe that is the case at all. People have been more curious about the mechanics of the fabric then how much it lifts, any time I have talked to someone about powerlifting and mentioned the gear they got more excited. There was no skepticism and definitely no lack of respect. If anything, the fact that there was that added dimension to the lifts made it all the more exciting.


When I competed in the Bench America which was nationally televised nobody in the commentary even mentioned the bench shirts. We just competed. I got phone calls from strangers who found my number from directory assistance, saying how cool that was. The people who make gear a big deal are powerlifters. So you can keep perpetuating the problem.
Very true, the only people who care about shirts are powerlifting. Us in the IPF dont like the style of bench shirts that you guys use VDizenzo. Just like raw powerlifters dont like gear at all. Its a catch 22 because until there is a united front it will be all the more difficult for this sport to be accepted. Although, like Deeder said, the IPF is the only worldwide federation with its own international competitions.


I don't want powerlifting to be an Olympic sport. I want it to be a professional sport. I have won/made money from this sport, why would I want to do it for free. In addition, I would not be able to afford the fancy drugs and techniques to beat the tests. The Olympics is not about competing clean, it's about testing clean. .
1) Apparently you havnt done a whole tonne of research, Olympic level athletes not only receive funding from their governments but are also about 20 times more likely to receive contracts to endorse companies. Look at gatorade, or powerade, or even Coke. Their commercials are mostly athletes (with exception of the cute Coke penguins, but who knows, maybe their athletes too ;)) and around olympic time they specifically chose olympic athletes to press their products on the public. Those who are chosen for endorsements can easily make 100-500 k for one commercial --- I find it highly doubtful that you can make that money in powerlifting. As well, there will still be professional level competitions with money prizes that can be won. In the IPF it is not a money sport unless your country makes it one, so we have never had that issue. IT would be nice to make a living in this sport but only the absolute elite are ever able to do that. And you will never be an unquestioned absolute elite unless there is a unified front and an olympic competition, as we have already discussed in this thread. d
2) What are you talking about? The idea of the olympics is clean athletes, none with any advantage over the other. If your hesitation is worrying about being able to afford to cheat out drug tests then you are the one with the wrong idea about this world. Perhaps some athletes do cheat tests, but I do not believe in any shape way or form that it is majority. You will get caught eventually, and when you do, your career goes down the drain. It is better to be an honest athlete and set a good example then to be the one who cheats and ruins the experience for everyone else. CAll me naive, but there is a reason why they drug test the olympics as hard as they do and a reason that it would cost you a fortune to beat the tests..... because its a CLEAN environment, and if you wont compete clean then you should have no part in it.



H

Also, is there a reason both Olympic lifting and PLing can't be in the Olympics?
There are currently 25 accepted sports in the olympics and 8 trial sports... So long as there is a sport that is overwhelmingly similar then there must be a damn good reason for its inclusion. This is a lot about politics, and the people who do olympic lifting (As we are seeing) do not want this sport in the olympics, it is a similar idea and the money that would have gone to that sport would be split up.... and any endorsements that favor strength and weightlifting will, again, be split up. If you are at an elite level of competition and doing this sport for a living, would you want a rival sport which is extremely similar in ideals (ie. strength) to compete against? Powerlifting is still a young sport and will have a lot to prove if it is going to hold a candle to the history that olympic lifting has to offer, it has to prove that it has a place in todays culture and will be of interest to society.



VEry true, as a matter of fact, when I look around the gym I see a lot more people doing the power lifts then the olympic lifts. For every 10 people I see squatting I may find one person doing a clean, and for every hundred people I see benching their may be one person who attempts a snatch. Every one of the lifts we do, we do for a reason. Olympic weightlifts, powerlifts... who cares, the effect in the long run will be the same; you get stronger. Now what muscles you make stronger to which effect, what ROM you do, and what exercises you do to achieve those ends will differ.... But I tell you that I have seen plenty of olympic weightlifters do the powerlifts to improve their lifts (We trained in the same gym as the saskatchewan olympic weightlifting team for the last 8 months), but very few powerlifters who do olympic lifts.


[QUOTE=Invain;1968079]You and I also both know that VERY few poeple actually use gear for real safety purposes. When guys are getting 300 - 400 lbs out of a shirt/suit, I'd say any safety benefits have been far outweighed long ago.
Dude, if I was getting that much out of my suit I would be an unquestioned world champion in the IPF. WE are talking about the one federation that is at an international level, the IPF. The other federations will not stand a chance at having an inclusion in the Olympics at this time because they are not worldwide. The suits we use are single ply, not canvas or denim, and our shirts have to have a closed back. Most times, if someone is really good they might be able to add a hundred pounds to their lift.... but very few people are that good with their gear. This stuff is excruciating to use but if you dont have the strength to move the bar you wont, the suit will not do that for you. It helps to control your movements, it protects your shoulders and hips, and does have some form of a safety effect. It is not simply used for getting more weight, although, that part of the suit is extremely fun.

You probably would say the same thing about equestrian sports, that the horse is the only one getting a workout..... But then again, I highly doubt you have had any experience on a competitive horse doing side passes or piaffes.... Just as it does not appear as if you have had any experience in a single ply bench shirt or squat suit.


which squat suit gives you 400 lbs??
My question exactly.... I think I might buy one.


We KNOW that suits are hard, they they still requie immense strength, but what sperates the critics from the general public? Nothing. SO many people will just bitch about the shirts and suits.
Well so far Fuzzy, the only person bitching is you?! and I have never had a single person regard me with anything but curiosity when they see me lift, they are curious about the gear we use but they have never ever said anything bad about it


so what about raw lifting in the olympics?

There was a reason we started using gear, it does help to protect your joints to a certain extent. When you start getting into canvas and denim the effect is lost, but with the stuff we use in the IPF there is a protective mechanism there. The IPF uses single ply gear, and I do not believe they will change that for the olympics -- nor do I believe that the olympics will be likely to request that change.



To be honest... it would a nice sight to see two of the worlds strongest people one from Olympic lifting and the other from Powerlifting standing together with gold metals around their neck. It would definitely bring the two lifting communities closer together.

Great Idea, but as we are experiencing from the extremely negative comments posted by Fuzzy - that is not likely to happen. IT is unfortunate because I believe the two sports have a lot that they could learn from each other. But that rivalry is there for a reason, one sport has been in the international scene since the 1800s, while the other is a baby sport that is slowly stealing olympic weightlifters. They are growing inversely, and that is a threat to the olympic weightlifting sport.....

vdizenzo
07-20-2008, 01:09 PM
Holy sh-t I could not read all of that. Ruffian, answer me this, how much do the oly lifters from the US make? They work just like the rest of us and they get little to no support. I am glad you think the way you do about the drug thing. Sorry to tell you that you are naive on the subject.

By the way I had an awesome seminar with lifters from all different aspects of the sport yesterday. Tested, untested, multiply, raw, and a few who don't even compete. We all helped each other, showed respect, and learned. We focused on powerlifting and how we love it, not our differences.

This discussion is not helping our sport in no way, shape, or form. I'm out.

strongkid963
07-20-2008, 02:03 PM
it does help to protect your joints to a certain extent. When you start getting into canvas and denim the effect is lost, but with the stuff we use in the IPF there is a protective mechanism there.





oh allow us to bow to down to the ALL-POWERFULL IPF. The two-ply frantz briefs seem to protect where i got hurt (sciatic type pain)last year and they are two ply, but that isnt allowed in the ipf.

Travis Bell
07-20-2008, 02:35 PM
For those that think single ply gear is so much more closer to raw lifting than double ply, you are greatly mistaken.

I'm with Vin, this discussion is pointless. I'm done

Cricket_Fire
07-20-2008, 05:14 PM
For those that think single ply gear is so much more closer to raw lifting than double ply, you are greatly mistaken.

I'm with Vin, this discussion is pointless. I'm done

Agreed. The only place these ****ing issues even come up is online; noone at any meet Ive attended.... including loads of IPF meets... has started bitching and complaining lmao

Invain
07-20-2008, 05:58 PM
LOL yes, we're all getting 300 and 400lbs out of our shirts.


Its comments like this that are just ridiculous.

Did I say everybody, or the average person, or you? It's comments like yours that are rediculous. You know as damn well as I do that there are top level lifters getting 300+ out of their gear.

Ruffian
07-21-2008, 02:36 PM
This was not a discussion of APF VS. IPF... this was a discussion of powerlifting on an international level, and the only federation that has several international affiliates and a worldwide competition. And frankly VDizenzo..... The way you are acting right now is exactly why people have issues with powerlifting. That your concern is avoiding drug tests is appalling.

BFGUITAR
07-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Ruffian I think you are being naive when it comes to drugs in the Olympics. Like you said, people are competing for massive amounts of money. Only the number one gets to be endorsed. This is a huge incentive to do drugs and to not get caught. They are all in or nothing. Not to mention being the best at something is incredible.

Here's a brain teaser... olympic lifting is called olympic lifting because it is in the olympics... If power lifting were admitted to the olympics wouldn't it technically be called olympic lifting? :D

chris mason
07-21-2008, 04:56 PM
Vincent made a very valid point about drug use in the Olympics. If you truly believe that many of the top level athletes in the Olympics are not doped then you are living in a fantasy world.

He is certainly entitled to his opinion and should be able to express it on an open forum such as this.

vdizenzo
07-21-2008, 06:25 PM
Ruffian, you are all over the map on this one. You are getting WAY too emotional and personal about it. The point I will make is that I have competed in the USAPL and AAU. I was "randomly" tested "everytime" I competed. I competed in Bench America II which was tested. I know what it is to compete clean. Conversely, I know IPF atheletes who openly discussed with me their drug use. I know what I am talking about. I know people on this level. I hate to tell you that the spirit of an even field that you believe in is overshadowed by the win at all cost attitude by many.

Tennessee Mike
07-22-2008, 05:51 AM
In my opinion it would not benefit anyone who actually powerlifts to make it an olympic sport.Powerlifters are a rare breed who do it for the personal achievement and the comradery with other similar goal oriented people.Putting it in such a position would create too much competition amongst the lifters themselves.This is what has happened to bodybuilding.Raise the prize money and you have animosity,jealousy and downright contempt.In the 70's all those guys were best friends and they made no money.Now they talk **** to sell magazines.Money and fame ruin everything.period.And as far as the comment about Raw lifters being injured more,I beg to differ.More weight=more stress on joints,ligaments=more injuries.The chances of injury are about the same.

Also,most powerlifters are blue collar,hard working guys and want to keep it that way.But I must say,Id love to see Vinnie or Rhodes on the front of a wheaties box....scary!