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lineman76
08-01-2008, 03:49 PM
Hey guys,
Im a 6'2" 250lb high school sophmore lineman . I would like to hear any ideas for things to add to my offseason workout. If anyone plays football and has a workout plan that they think is particularly beneficial
please tell me about it. thanks guys

WillNoble
08-01-2008, 04:08 PM
As I said in the other post that was started, here are some great ones. From one football player to another:


http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm


http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside2.htm


http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside3.htm




www.defrancostraining.com

joey54
08-01-2008, 05:23 PM
I was gonna say WSFSB is pretty proven. KingKong also developed a solid plan for his players which may be worth checking out.

lineman76
08-02-2008, 01:53 PM
thank you both for the help ill try those out... also any ideas for supplements?

joey54
08-02-2008, 01:57 PM
5-7 high protein meals per day.

WillNoble
08-02-2008, 02:04 PM
5-7 high protein meals per day.


sound advice, a multi vitamin wouldnt hurt you either, but food, and lots of it is the key. Lots of meat, lots of veggies, and as your trying to bulk, fast food is definitely going to help, but be smart about it. My favorite when I was playing college ball was Q'doba or Chipotle. 1000+ kcals and plenty of protein and good carbs rolled up into a tasty treat.

BoAnderson71
08-03-2008, 01:51 PM
go with defrancos training. eat alot. i would take protein though because i know that i dont really control what my mom cooks and once school starts im always eating sandwiches for lunch which is good, but not enough protein. so i would get opticen from at large nutrition or i would get mass xxx from gnc. 50 grams of protein and 750 calories and 122 grams of good carbs and a whole slew of amino acids are in one shake of mass xxx. get creatine 500 from at large nutrition and mix it with grape juice. take a multi vitamin and fish oil.

joey54
08-03-2008, 07:31 PM
carbs sources-oatmeal, grits, yams, red potatoes, pasta on occasion, whole weat/whole grain bread sometimes,

don't forget about vegetables and fruits too. and you can eat fast food every once and awhile. with your age I wouldn't worry much about supplements other than a protein powder. I recommend at large's Nitrean first since this is their site, but I use ON's Pro Complex and this is a good one as well.

lineman76
08-03-2008, 08:20 PM
so just eat alot of protein and carbs and use a protein supplement? and 5-7 meals a day? sounds good to me. willnoble do you have any other advice on things to improve my chances of playing college football? not neccisarilly D1 but somewhere?

Reko
08-03-2008, 08:21 PM
protein shakes/supplements aren't necessary if you can get enough protein in your diet, its just hard to sometimes so they are a very nice tool to help in those regards. Same thing with multi-vitamins too, although as processed as the food is these days I would be willing to bet just about everyone on this board needs to take one to get everything they need daily.

BoAnderson71
08-03-2008, 10:31 PM
ya rekos right unless your eating a bunch of chicken, eggs, and steak, turkey etc. a day your not getting as much protein as you need. once you get to college or the pros its alot easier because you have nutrionists to help you out. but me being a highschool kid i know its a lot harder to get enough good protein and carbs in your diet so i would take a protein supplement, either nitrean or opticen, opticen worked well for me. so just eat as good as you can with all the foods that everybody has been mentioning and eat alot of it. as far as recruiting goes im going to be a junior next fall and like you i want to play in college. i suggest finding some sort of football marketing company in your region and hire them. because marketing now days can get you pretty far. they'll be able to get scouts out to your games, but then of course its up to you to perform well, but at least you'll have scouts their and interested in you. and if for some reason you cant find someone or you cant afford it. Attend combines, have your coaches send game film to colleges, upload videos onto youtubes. the internet is one of your best friends when it comes to highschool recruiting.

schmitty199
08-04-2008, 12:14 PM
so just eat alot of protein and carbs and use a protein supplement? and 5-7 meals a day? sounds good to me. willnoble do you have any other advice on things to improve my chances of playing college football? not neccisarilly D1 but somewhere?

Your on track for that goal size wise, so just keep getting stronger and make sure you include plenty of running/agility drills. Colleges want big boys up front, but they also need big boys that can move.

lineman76
08-04-2008, 03:43 PM
boanderson.. give me some names of those marketing agencies i will look some up. I have never heard of one

BoAnderson71
08-04-2008, 05:07 PM
were do u live? I live in tacoma washington. the people i use only market people from washington and oregon mainly. theres one player from utah and one from canada. so if you live somewhere else i cant tell you directly. just use the interent or ask around in your area. some websites that are free are allatudentathletes.com and go to stack .com. there's always scout.com and rivals.com but they have to accept you. im sorry i cant give you a name but im sure there are marketing companies out were ever you live or in a neighboring state. There's also mystack.com another free site that will let anyone join. allstudentathletes.com will also let everyone join

WillNoble
08-04-2008, 05:32 PM
Honestly unless you are a marginal player, the marketing company is not necessarily your best bang for the buck, so to speak. For the money you will pay someone to do the leg work for you, you could be attending camps and clinics. Most, if not all, D1 schools hold summer football clinics/camps that you can pay to attend, or be invited to.

Honestly it would seem to me, to be a signifigantly better value, getting some world class coaching, and quite a bit of face time with college coaches and scouts, by attending college camps or clinics.

Maybe Im just old fashioned, but you earn your place with a college team, not pay someone to do publicity for you.



again thats my 2cc's

lineman76
08-04-2008, 09:24 PM
yea.. i kinda feel were you are coming from willnoble. i go to camps as much as i can. and in response to boanderson im from indiana and not many kids i know used agencies so that is why im wondering... buddy of mine might play at iowa and he doesnt at least... thanks to everyone for the advice though i will definitly take it into consideration

BoAnderson71
08-04-2008, 10:40 PM
yeah you don't need it but it helps. Part of the program though is attending camps. They put up a profile of you that is very detailed and video of you working out. You also get to go to a marketing workout. and during the offseason they hold workouts on saturdays at university of washington were some huskies players will join in. they give you advice on wht to say. They let you know when all the team camps are and which ones you should sign up for. you don't need it by any means, but it helps whenever your coaches aren't doing a lot of marketing for you. and no will noble its not just for marginal players. The top football player in the class of 2010 uses the same company. hes going to be a junior next year and he already has 11 offers. so know what you're talking about before you pop off will. Im just trying to help lineman 76. but a marketing company isn't for average players to get hyped up better then they are. its an assured way for a west coast kid like me to get some schools from the east coast or south to get interested. but lineman 76 its not everything. attend team camps hosted in june and july and go to combines and perform well then you'll get noticed. so the whole point of this was to let you know you dont need a marketing company but it doesn't hurt you. and its not paying for someone to do it for you, you still have to perform well during the season and at camps and combines, and you do get world class coaching because most of the guys that are coaches in the program are ex d1 players who still have connections with their old schools. your not paying your way into d-1 football.

lineman76
08-05-2008, 10:32 AM
thanks for the help boanderson

n4rd0
08-05-2008, 05:39 PM
The only advice that I don't think was given is to ask for some advice a little sooner. It's august already and now your asking for advice? this should have been posted months ago. Hope you've been running camp is right around the corner. Goodluck

lineman76
08-06-2008, 11:08 AM
well i obviously know that its august. i was asking now because i was already on a program for the off season and i didnt need another one. i ask now so i can have some ideas for next year.

Ben Moore
08-06-2008, 12:00 PM
so know what you're talking about before you pop off will.
Don't get mouthy man - Will's just doing the same thing you are in trying to help. You obviously have a little different perspective than Will's. I don't know your success, but Will has definitely had some success in this area. He had something worthwhile to say and in no way belittled your point. Let's keep things civil.

WillNoble
08-06-2008, 12:27 PM
and no will noble its not just for marginal players. The top football player in the class of 2010 uses the same company. hes going to be a junior next year and he already has 11 offers. so know what you're talking about before you pop off will...




Listen kid, I don't give a damn about who the marketing company is, or who they represent...If you are a D1 caliber athlete, the schools will find you...period.

No marketing company is going to make you a better athlete, period, hard work ang good coaching will. The type of player who needs someone else to get his name out there is a marginal one...no matter what your opinion is on the topic.


and p.s. idiot, I do know what Im talking about, having spent a season as a G.A. for my college, and working primarily in recruiting. 95% of the kids we looked at didnt have some company doing work for them...they worked hard, they played hard and they got national attention for THEIR efforts, not what some sports agent told the coaches he was capable of doing.


The OP would be better served going to as many clinics and camps as he can, taking advantage of the great coaching, and in the process getting plenty of exposure by the coaches/scouts in attendance.

WillNoble
08-06-2008, 12:30 PM
yea.. i kinda feel were you are coming from willnoble. i go to camps as much as i can. and in response to boanderson im from indiana and not many kids i know used agencies so that is why im wondering... buddy of mine might play at iowa and he doesnt at least... thanks to everyone for the advice though i will definitly take it into consideration


If you're in Indiana, I would definitely check out Notre Dame's and UK's summer football camps next year. Both were great when I was still playing ball, and I learned a ton, and got quite a bit of exposure as a result. Ive also heard that Tennesee's was a great one as well, and at most like 6 hrs. away from you.

fell free to PM me and I will try and help you get any info you need for this stuff...



well i obviously know that its august. i was asking now because i was already on a program for the off season and i didnt need another one. i ask now so i can have some ideas for next year.


Thats a good attitude to have, keep it up, and you will meet with great success

RhodeHouse
08-06-2008, 10:22 PM
Good ole football. As a former D1 player and coach, those recruiting agencies are a waste. If you can play, you'll get noticed. If you want to spend the time, get all of your game film and send it to any school you're interested in going to. Don't send highlight tapes. Coaches want to see what you do on every play. We've all had highlights.

As for training - just lift hard, eat well, and make sure you can run forever. The better conditioned you are, the better you'll perform when you're tired. It doesn't matter how much you lift or how fast you run, if you're sucking wind all the time, you can't play very well.

KingJustin
08-06-2008, 11:08 PM
As for training - just lift hard, eat well, and make sure you can run forever. The better conditioned you are, the better you'll perform when you're tired. It doesn't matter how much you lift or how fast you run, if you're sucking wind all the time, you can't play very well.

To that end, I think CrossFit metcons are pretty ideal.

I know that a mediocre 4a (or was it 5a?) high school football team in Texas changed to a pure CrossFit training program, adding in sport-specific stuff in-season. 2 years later, they won the state championship and were beating teams by about 50 points relatively consistently.

I noticed exactly what RhodeHouse said when I did MMA. I started off being a bit stronger than the other guys but getting winded quick and not being able to use my strength after the first 30 seconds. After doing CrossFit for a year I can keep pushing the pace the whole way and feel really powerful the whole way through.


(And obviously DeFranco is the #1 source for this stuff, but I don't think it's a bad idea to supplement some of his training with the CF metcons)

lineman76
08-09-2008, 06:25 PM
well thank you to everyone for your help i will definitly use the ideas.

lineman76
08-09-2008, 11:15 PM
anyone know if 300 bench and 455 sqaut are good numbers for the end of a freshman year in high school

WillNoble
08-10-2008, 05:35 PM
not bad...this chart is from an olllllllld EFS article, but it still has some relevance...However it must be noted that all situations are unique, I knew a guy who was a legit raw 650 squatter in high school as well as a 450lb. bencher, this was no coaches "spotting", no B.S. power. He never made it to college ball. However I knew a kid who as a linebacker had trouble benching 300 and could squat 405 on a good day, and started as a Division I linebacker for 3 years and spent time in the pro's...so always take anything with a grain of salt...



http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1081/rankingkc2.jpg

Tennessee Mike
08-10-2008, 05:55 PM
Good ole football. As a former D1 player and coach, those recruiting agencies are a waste. If you can play, you'll get noticed. If you want to spend the time, get all of your game film and send it to any school you're interested in going to. Don't send highlight tapes. Coaches want to see what you do on every play. We've all had highlights.

As for training - just lift hard, eat well, and make sure you can run forever. The better conditioned you are, the better you'll perform when you're tired. It doesn't matter how much you lift or how fast you run, if you're sucking wind all the time, you can't play very well.

Best advice ever.Coaches dont care about highlights.They wanna see technique and how you react in all situations.As far as the diet goes,high protein,high carbs,and lots of conditioning.Anyone can be strong and slow.Your conditioning will set you apart on the field.Its what you got in the tank in the fourth quarter that will make you better than the rest.

ZenMonkey
08-10-2008, 07:34 PM
Best advice ever.Coaches dont care about highlights.They wanna see technique and how you react in all situations.As far as the diet goes,high protein,high carbs,and lots of conditioning.Anyone can be strong and slow.Your conditioning will set you apart on the field.Its what you got in the tank in the fourth quarter that will make you better than the rest.

Yes, I agree. Beautifully put RhodeHouse.

Detard
08-11-2008, 05:19 PM
Great thread guys. Some very interesting and helpful advice from the big dawgs in here.

joey54
08-11-2008, 08:34 PM
not bad...this chart is from an olllllllld EFS article, but it still has some relevance...However it must be noted that all situations are unique, I knew a guy who was a legit raw 650 squatter in high school as well as a 450lb. bencher, this was no coaches "spotting", no B.S. power. He never made it to college ball. However I knew a kid who as a linebacker had trouble benching 300 and could squat 405 on a good day, and started as a Division I linebacker for 3 years and spent time in the pro's...so always take anything with a grain of salt...



http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1081/rankingkc2.jpg

Interesting chart.

WillNoble
08-11-2008, 08:45 PM
Interesting chart.

yeah, its from a great, albeit very old article, from EFS... I remember reading it when it came out while I was still playing ball in college. I remember one of our fullbacks giving me a copy of the article and Wendler saying it was an awesome one.


http://www.elitefts.com/documents/strength.htm

BoAnderson71
08-12-2008, 01:45 AM
is that chart for seniors going into college or just college athletes, or both highschool and college athletes? will i do respect you especially if you did play college ball. but you're saying that i dont work hard and im having soemone else market for me. im just trying to get soem help along the way. i work my butt off to get where i have gotten and will continue, it pisses me off whenever someone makes comments like o do it yourself its for marginal athletes. the truth is that my coaches dont help me out at all, so im trying to make myself the best player that i can be, while still working working hard. while everybody is getting high or getting in drunk im putting in work to get better. you're just stereotyping people and inferring that i dont work hard. so we obviously disagree and thats okay but don't come up with these hypothesis that people who do use marketing agencies are marginal spoiled kids who dont work hard because you dont know if thats true or not. the people i use aren't a marketing agency technically. they run workouts in the offseason to get kids better. so once again whenever everybody is hung over on saturday i'll be driving up to uw to workout and get better in january. and i do attend camps and combines. Let's just respect the fact that we disagree. im fine if you disagree with me, but im not fine with you calling me a marginal lazy player. and rhodehouse thanks for the advice about not making a highlight video but sending in game tapes, also thank you for being mature about your comments and not acting like a 12 year old and trying to call people lazy or marginal whenever you have no idea how good they are or how hard they work. remember will it's easy to try to make people feel bad about themselves or that they're nothing but it's hard to give respect. so why don't you start acting like a 26 year old. once again i respect what you've done and that you're a big strong weightlifter but you don't need to try to bring other people down on the internet. just say your opinion and dont disrespect another persons.

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 06:19 AM
sigh.... here we go again...



will i do respect you especially if you did play college ball. but you're saying that i dont work hard and im having soemone else market for me. im just trying to get soem help along the way. i work my butt off to get where i have gotten and will continue, it pisses me off whenever someone makes comments like o do it yourself its for marginal athletes.

The funny thing about this fragmented paragraph, is that you help illustrate the point I was making earlier. No marketing company is going to make you a better athlete or get you into division I ball, you do that yourself...I don't care who the agency is, or who they work with... it...doesn't...work...like...that

If you are a division I caliber athlete, coaches will be knocking your door down trying to talk to you. SO I will again stick behind my original stance... Real players DON'T need marketing agencies, marginal ones DO.

If you're going to make it, its through your own efforts, not due to an ad agency or website...Again, it seems you've already posted that, and I have posted that prior to this...sooooo we've all arrived at the same conclusion.




...and inferring that i dont work hard.

At what point have I said this during any part of this thread? Oh that's right, I DIDN'T...who is making false claims now?


Let's just respect the fact that we disagree. im fine if you disagree with me, but im not fine with you calling me a marginal lazy player.

see the above comments


not acting like a 12 year old and trying to call people lazy or marginal whenever you have no idea how good they are or how hard they work. remember will it's easy to try to make people feel bad about themselves or that they're nothing but it's hard to give respect. so why don't you start acting like a 26 year old. once again i respect what you've done and that you're a big strong weightlifter but you don't need to try to bring other people down on the internet.

I find this part the most funny, as you were the one who began the mudslinging. Now you're crying because you got smacked...Do yourself a favor and quit posting in this thread..



just say your opinion and dont disrespect another persons.

Again, I did not begin the disrespect...YOU DID... Ben called you out for it, and I responded to it...If you can't take opinion, turn off your computer and go do some push-ups or something.



I end with 6 suggestions/comments:

1) formulate your own arguments and READ all that was posted by others...Don't jump to conclusions

2) I never referred to you as lazy, during any part of this thread...obviously you have a complex regarding this.

3) If you are a great athlete, the coaches and scouts will find you, not the other way around...Your proving ground is Friday nights and in the weightroom....remember that.

4) It sounds like you are trying to find experts in the field to make you better, keep that up and you will reap the benefits.

5) you started this battle, not I. If you wish to continue, please keep posting, if not, just let it be.

6) Finally, this thread is titled "Ideal Football Workout", your comments about the ad agency have nothing to do with a.) Ideal b.) football, or c.) workouts

so lets get back on topic.... kthnxbye

=Travis=
08-12-2008, 08:23 AM
:tuttut:Will - you shouldn't be picking on these impressionable youths.

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 08:43 AM
:tuttut:Will - you shouldn't be picking on these impressionable youths.


after your legal speech, Travis, I tried a different tact

=Travis=
08-12-2008, 09:01 AM
after your legal speech, Travis, I tried a different tact

HAHA - I thought you controlled your temper a lot better than I would as there were a lot of insinuations and misstatements in the above post that would have fired me up.

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 11:55 AM
yeah, I just chalk it up to youth and inexperience...He'll grow out of it.......Hopefully

jed
08-12-2008, 01:31 PM
Will - (or anyone else that knows), is it possible to play DE and pulling Guard in highschool, and send your gamefilms in to DII colleges and if you have great athletic ability, they may offer a scholarship and play you somewhere else (outside linebacker i'd assume)? i am 180 and obviously not big enough to play on the line either way in college, but i do have somewhat impressive speed and strength. im just wondering if i should even bother to send gamefilm in or if they would just laugh. thanks!

BoAnderson71
08-12-2008, 02:03 PM
okay will. the reason why i thought you called me lazy was because i started with one of those marketing agencies. im sorry if i pissed you off. and maybe the marketing company won't help but it didn't cost that much and it won't hurt. and i won't stop posting because im not a puss. but thankyou. i do have a question for you though. do you need to get invited to the team camps, or can you sign up yourself? and if you do need to get invited do you send in game film and a questionaire, how would i go about doing it?

joey54
08-12-2008, 04:10 PM
Will - (or anyone else that knows), is it possible to play DE and pulling Guard in highschool, and send your gamefilms in to DII colleges and if you have great athletic ability, they may offer a scholarship and play you somewhere else (outside linebacker i'd assume)? i am 180 and obviously not big enough to play on the line either way in college, but i do have somewhat impressive speed and strength. im just wondering if i should even bother to send gamefilm in or if they would just laugh. thanks!


It won't hurt. You can also try d3 schools. I know it might not be your goal, but trust me there is still great competition in d3. Actually I would bet Mt. Union, who wins the d3 national title just about every year and is on a different level than almost all the other d3 schools would beat a lot of d2 schools very badly, and could beat d1 schools too. As mentioned if you can play, some college will recognize it and find a place for you to play. I was an undersized guard in high school, but also played tight end and first tried to play that in college. I was never able to catch the football well, so it didn't work out, but I played tough and was somewhat strong, between college letter winner and starter according to will's chart. well injuries happened to our line and all the sudden I was starting at offensive tackle at 6 ft 1, 210 pounds, and I more then held my own. Playing college football is/was such a great experience, so if you can do it go for it. Most d3 schools have financial aid packages which can help out greatly. While there are some scholarships in d2 depending on where you go, it can be difficult to get one at least in your first year.

Will, thanks for posting that article, good read.

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 05:26 PM
i do have a question for you though. do you need to get invited to the team camps, or can you sign up yourself? and if you do need to get invited do you send in game film and a questionaire, how would i go about doing it?

You can sign up yourself, most sites offer camps that you can pay to attend, conversely, you can be invited to them as well (i.e. I payed to attend a camp at UK the summer before my Junior year, I was invited to attend the next year free of charge, because I Was a prospect)

Best thing to do is go to the teams site that you are interested in, and search for camps (usually they are really visible, as they are a revenue generating recruiting tool.)

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 05:27 PM
Will, thanks for posting that article, good read.


Your welcome, again its a great article, but it is a little dated.

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 05:33 PM
Will - (or anyone else that knows), is it possible to play DE and pulling Guard in highschool, and send your gamefilms in to DII colleges and if you have great athletic ability, they may offer a scholarship and play you somewhere else (outside linebacker i'd assume)? i am 180 and obviously not big enough to play on the line either way in college, but i do have somewhat impressive speed and strength. im just wondering if i should even bother to send gamefilm in or if they would just laugh. thanks!



ABSOLUTELY, the best thing I could tell you to do, is begin emailing schools your interested in and offer to send them game tapes (most smaller schools also have questionnaires you can fill out) At UK we used to recieve tapes all the time that kids would simply send in, after speaking with a coach or GA.

As far as playing a different position...this happens all the time in college, especially at smaller schools, do not be afraid to send in tape...If you have the tools, some coach will be willing to give you the shot, I would be willing to bet,

lineman76
08-12-2008, 08:52 PM
this is all great information... will, is sophmore year in hs too early to send films?

WillNoble
08-12-2008, 09:00 PM
I would wait till you're a junior....that is strictly my opinion though

jed
08-12-2008, 10:20 PM
thanks a lot for the responses joey and will. i asked for scholarship reasons because scholarships would help a ton for my family. i would love to play ball somewhere in college, but only if the team is interested in me, you know? i dont want to go and play at a d1 or high ranked d2 and work my ass off for 4 years and never play. i will take your advice on emailing and sending film, thank you!!

BoAnderson71
08-13-2008, 12:51 AM
thanks for the advice will. did you get a full ride from kentucky or did you walk on?

WillNoble
08-13-2008, 06:25 AM
I was recruited and then walked on as what was called a "preferred walk-on", Later I received a scholarship.

I had several other offers from other schools, but when UK showed interest I immediately chose them, as I grew up watching the 'cats on Satudays