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View Full Version : I really need opinions...from erbody!



ZenMonkey
08-10-2008, 08:12 PM
This is not just another routine thread. I am interested in talking about how to make this work and maybe making an interesting split that could gain benefit from two very different worlds of lifting.

So, I'm bored here with some broken fingers. I like to think and since I can't lift I am thinking about lifting. I was reading around on various boards and got to thinking about conjugate periodization, like one does, and was wondering how to incorporate that with Oly movements. How do these samples look? I would really like to create a sweet split philosophy... so please, humor an injured lustful lifter!


M/W/F
Snatch
ME Squat
DE DL
Pulling Movement

Clean & Jerk
ME DL
DE Bench
Hamstring Movement

Clean Variation
ME Bench
DE Squat
Snatch Variation



------


M/T/H/F
Snatch Variation
ME Squat
Hamstring Movement
DE Bench Press

Snatch
ME Bench Press
DE DL
Quad Movement

Clean Variation
ME DL
Vertical Pulling
Tricep or Horizontal Pushing Movement

Clean and Jerk
DE Squat
OH Pushing Movement
Horizontal Pulling Movement

drew
08-11-2008, 06:16 AM
It seems like a lot of work, but give it a try and see how it does for you. I would probably do the Oly stuff after the main movement, since you want to be fresh when you are trying to work your technique on main lifts.

Personally, I only like to do Oly stuff on a bench day since I feel it transfers best to benching (big power pressing movement, lots of leg drive, shoulder and upper back work, etc)

The other thing you could think about is to drop a DE day and make it an Oly day instead. That depends on how comfortable you are with losing a DE day. For me, I don't do much DE squatting anymore, but I absolutely need the speed bench. But that's just what works for me.

ZenMonkey
08-11-2008, 07:52 AM
Cool, I like your ideas. I agree about the volume but not really about movement order- but I guess it depends on priority. I find I respond well to DE Squats- so there they are but I am not so much making this for myself as a a split as I am just brain storming about the possibilities of combining conj periodization and OLY lifts. I, myself, would not do DE or ME Bench rather just RE bench since I don't compete. But like I said I am just looking for good theoretical conversation about how possible this is! This might simply not work for all of the big 3 rather focus on Squat and DL. On the other hand the volume is not out of this world. BGB I believe has similar amounts of volume as well as the WBB routines etc...

Possible Movement Inclusions:

-Vertical Push
-Vertical Pull
-Horizontal Push OR ME/DE Bench
-Horizontal Pull
-ME/DE Squat
-ME/DE DL (could switch these week to week)
-Hamstring Supporting Movement
-Quad Supporting Movement
-CnJ + 1 Variation
-Snatch + 1 Variation

It seems possible to mix these and although I have not done it yet it looks like it might work well for those who not only want good looking numbers (that is if they respond to conjugate methods) but also the athletes and those looking for that CNS speed and full body muscle team work.


thanks!

drew
08-11-2008, 08:17 AM
It's always good to see people thinking.

You might try looking up Travis Mash on Myspace. I believe he was doing something similar to what you're trying to accomplish.

ZenMonkey
08-11-2008, 09:02 AM
It's always good to see people thinking.

You might try looking up Travis Mash on Myspace. I believe he was doing something similar to what you're trying to accomplish.

Cool, thanks Drew!

Chris Rodgers
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
I am not very familiar with OLY lifts and training a loading. I do know that you need to practice them often. In the 4 day split, why not work the OLY lift(s) each day, then have a typical WS split on those days. IE: 2 Bench days and 2 Sq/DL days instead of splitting them into 4 sessions. Have one DE SQ/DL and one ME. Then do the same for bench on separate days. Just a thought.

vdizenzo
08-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Cool, thanks Drew!

Drew is a super genius!

ZenMonkey
08-12-2008, 08:24 AM
thanks guys- chris, thats a great idea. ill see what i can organize using your premise.

KarstenDD
08-12-2008, 10:54 PM
Drew is a super genius!

Thats not a nice thing to say. Getting his hopes up and everything. Even if he is right.

RhodeHouse
08-13-2008, 08:07 PM
Zen - I don't like all the pulling. You might want to do some thing like this:

Mon
Olympic Lift
ME Squat (but not a true ME)
Hamstrings/Low BAck
Abs

Wed
Olympic Lift
ME Bench
Lats
Rows
Tirceps

Fri
Olympic Lift
DE Squat
Hamstrings/Low Back
Abs

Mon
Olympic Lift
DE Bench
Military Press
Lats
Triceps

And then repeat the cycle. Basically, one week you'll be doing 2 Lower Body workouts and the next week you'll do 2 Upper Body workouts. Each workout, you can train the Olympic lift. You can also throw some biceps work in there if you want to.

I would do the Olympic Lifts 1st. The point of Olympic Lifting is to be very fast and explosive. There is no way you'll be fast and explosive after ME work. And, if you do speed work properly, you'll be spent after that, as well.

During the weeks where you're only performing one workout (Upper or Lower) I would do Deadlifts and Squats on that day. I would also make those workouts ME, not DE. Do the ME and DE workouts when you have 2 upper/lower workouts in the same week. I don't think speed work is that important. It's easy to move light weights. I do think it's more important if you lift raw, but still not that important. I think you'll get more out of ME work. Make sense?

I would do Heavy Overhead work instead of DE Bench, but that's just me.

Just some ideas for you.

drew
08-14-2008, 08:41 AM
Just do whatever Matt Rhodes says. Rhodes is better than me at everything, including arts and crafts and the guitar. I have no friends.

RedSpikeyThing
08-14-2008, 09:05 AM
I like that setup Rhodes. What kind of rep and weight ranges would you be using for the oly stuff?

ZenMonkey
08-14-2008, 09:18 AM
Zen - I don't like all the pulling. You might want to do some thing like this:

Mon
Olympic Lift
ME Squat (but not a true ME)
Hamstrings/Low BAck
Abs

Wed
Olympic Lift
ME Bench
Lats
Rows
Tirceps

Fri
Olympic Lift
DE Squat
Hamstrings/Low Back
Abs

Mon
Olympic Lift
DE Bench
Military Press
Lats
Triceps

And then repeat the cycle. Basically, one week you'll be doing 2 Lower Body workouts and the next week you'll do 2 Upper Body workouts. Each workout, you can train the Olympic lift. You can also throw some biceps work in there if you want to.

I would do the Olympic Lifts 1st. The point of Olympic Lifting is to be very fast and explosive. There is no way you'll be fast and explosive after ME work. And, if you do speed work properly, you'll be spent after that, as well.

During the weeks where you're only performing one workout (Upper or Lower) I would do Deadlifts and Squats on that day. I would also make those workouts ME, not DE. Do the ME and DE workouts when you have 2 upper/lower workouts in the same week. I don't think speed work is that important. It's easy to move light weights. I do think it's more important if you lift raw, but still not that important. I think you'll get more out of ME work. Make sense?

I would do Heavy Overhead work instead of DE Bench, but that's just me.

Just some ideas for you.

Wow, thats a badass looking split and yea there was a good amount of unbalanced pulling there. THANKS!!

DO you mean pulling off of the ground? I think that is balanced with the squatting. Also that helps me tons in Rugby.

RST: Various ranges- for the actual lifts themselves I will work to a heavy 1-2 and the variations will be strict 5x5 (or something low like that.. but not much lower)

ZenMonkey
08-14-2008, 09:48 AM
RhodeHouse, here is one I was thinking about for myself once I can start lifting again. Im not really looking for a conjugate split just somethin that works for me. Opinions?

Monday:
Snatch- 5x5-1
ME/ RE Squat- 5x5-1 (every other week)
** ?? If ME Squat then do Breathing Squats??
Row- 5x5
Flat Press- 5x5

Wednesday:
Power Clean- 5x3
RE/ME DL 5x5-1 (every other week)
Snatch High Pull- 5x5
**?? if ME DL then DE Squat
Push Press v Overhead Press 5x5 (every other week)

Friday:
Clean and Jerk- 5x5-1
Front v Overhead Squat- 5x5 (every other week)
Stiff Legged Deadlift- 5x5
Kipping Pull-ups 3x Failure v Weighted Pull-ups- 5x5 (every other week)


Was thinking about adding either DE pr Breathing Squats in there smewhere- maybe not weekly though. I know it still looks like a lot of pulling but these are the basic movements I want.

This is all I want: 2 Hams, 2 quads, vertical and horizontal push and pull, olymovements + 1 variation of each. OPTIONS added were a set of 20 rep squats on the week and day of ME squat AND/OR putting DE squats on Wed when I will not be RE DL but rather ME DL. This is to keep volume lower per week. What I mean is week 1 will have ME Squat, RE DL and 20 rep squats while WEEK 2 will have RE squat, ME dl, and DE squats.

Im really not trying to be difficult and not take advice. The 1st post was a general one and after thinking about what I need/want came up with this.

RhodeHouse
08-14-2008, 10:55 AM
The only thing I would do different is do the ME DL on the 3rd day not the 2nd day. This gives your lower body a little more rest from the really taxinf squats and pulls.

ZenMonkey
08-14-2008, 10:59 AM
good idear

RhodeHouse
08-14-2008, 11:01 AM
I like that setup Rhodes. What kind of rep and weight ranges would you be using for the oly stuff?

I don't know much about Olympic Lifting, but I remember doing 3-5 reps in college. I know that Prilepin's chart is made for Olympic lifting. He talks about speed work not being performed proper ly after 3-4 reps. The CNS just can't fire at it's best for very many reps. That's why Louie has his guys to De squats with doubles and benches with triples. You just can't produce maximal force for much more than 3 reps. And, I do know that Olympic lifting is all about maximal force production. So, I'm guessing that you could use set and rep schemes similar to Westside's Speed days. I would use different set/rep schemes all the time. Maybe 2-3 week waves?

Again, I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Olympic lifting, just some of the very basics. You might want to PM Fuzzy or Sensei. They're really good with the Olympic stuff.

ZenMonkey
08-14-2008, 11:06 AM
I asked fuzz about this split and he seemed to like it.

Snatch, Squat, Row, Bench

Power Clean, Snatch High pull, DL, push press

CnJ, front or OH squat, sldl, kipping pullups


Id just be adding 1 movement per week with breathing squats once and DE squat on week 2

StLRPh
11-04-2010, 09:10 AM
Zen,

How did this go for you?