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Lumiel
08-15-2008, 02:58 PM
I'm just wrapping up a PSMF diet that I went on to crash through a weight barrier I seemed unable to cross until now. I've managed to lose about 20 lbs and it will be 30 lbs of fat by the time I'm done. I'm looking lean and mean - the best I've looked in my life. So I've mastered cutting...

... now here's the trick. I want to bulk and gain serious muscle but I don't want to pork up like my body is akin to doing. I want to make sure my nutrition is spot on to optimize muscle building and take on as little fat as possible.

I figure I stick with my 1 - 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight and then fill in the rest of the caloric needs with healthy fats and some whole grain carbs. The trick is... how do I know what my maintenance calories are, and how much should I up them by in order to have a good bulk without the pork?

Currently: 205 lbs,
Approx bf: 10-12%
Goal: 195 lbs

Ben Moore
08-15-2008, 03:10 PM
In the past I've figured out my maintenance (I can't remember the formula, others will know) and added 500 on my high days and subtracted 500 on my low days. So for example if I was maintenancing at 3000, 3500 would be my high and 2500 would be my low. I seemed to stay very lean with this type of cycling from low, main., high and starting over.

Eric Cartman
08-15-2008, 03:11 PM
I've learnt the hard way that if you eat a ton of food on a bulk, without any restraint or structure, you will become fatter then an elephant, and you can barely see the muscle you put on...

I think the solution is a slow bulk, where you eat just bit more then you usually do.. add food little by little, measure your results, increase the calories slowly.. better to error on the side of maintaining the same weight.. it turns out that I didn't need all that food I was eating.. it was excessive over-eating at every meal that got me in trouble..

On the other hand, if you've lifted heavy for a few weeks, and seen no weight gain, you know to increase your calories by 500, try again... its just trial and error.

Hope this helps.

EC

Lumiel
08-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Here's the amusing part. When I eat like I normally do, I end up getting fat. That's kind of why I was hoping for a caloric formula or something I could go on... but I guess EC is right after all. I should just eat normally making sure I get enough protein, and then if I'm gaining WAY too much weight, I'll ease up on the carbs and fats. Trial and error is such a squishy thing for a scientifically minded guy like me.

RhodeHouse
08-15-2008, 10:51 PM
I've learnt the hard way that if you eat a ton of food on a bulk, without any restraint or structure, you will become fatter then an elephant, and you can barely see the muscle you put on...

I think the solution is a slow bulk, where you eat just bit more then you usually do.. add food little by little, measure your results, increase the calories slowly.. better to error on the side of maintaining the same weight.. it turns out that I didn't need all that food I was eating.. it was excessive over-eating at every meal that got me in trouble..

On the other hand, if you've lifted heavy for a few weeks, and seen no weight gain, you know to increase your calories by 500, try again... its just trial and error.

Hope this helps.


EC

Clearly, your training sucked. I eat anything and everything and have had no problems with gaining too much fat. Your training should take care of the excess fat you worry about. If it doesn't, your training sucks

Eric Cartman
08-16-2008, 01:28 PM
I gained plenty of muscle, so how could my training suck?

Just for argument sake, I'll explain that I was doing a 3 day split, 12-15 sets per day, 6-10 reps, mostly compound lifts, that doesn't seem like a ****ty training routine to me..

EC

BFGUITAR
08-16-2008, 02:16 PM
Rhodes of course his training sucked. He's new to the game and does not have the experience to really push hard like you or others do. If he had a coach or lifting partner to really push him it may be different.

It took me 2 years to hit a 225 bench. This is because my training sucked. I had the right set/rep schemes, adequate rest but I did not know how to do those reps nor did I know how to push myself. I did not have anyone to teach me.

Eric just eat less next time that simple. I learned the same way you did.

Eric Cartman
08-17-2008, 08:42 AM
Thanks Guitar.. wise words..

Hey Lumiel, I'm just curious, how did you break through your cutting plateau? I seem to have hit a plateau with cutting for the past several weeks.. I lift, walk, and eat almost nothing, and am still the same weight.. any advice?

Sorry to hijack your thread.. :ninja:

Notorious
08-17-2008, 11:59 AM
Thanks Guitar.. wise words..

Hey Lumiel, I'm just curious, how did you break through your cutting plateau? I seem to have hit a plateau with cutting for the past several weeks.. I lift, walk, and eat almost nothing, and am still the same weight.. any advice?

Sorry to hijack your thread.. :ninja:

PSMF

emjlr3
08-18-2008, 06:50 AM
Rhodes of course his training sucked. He's new to the game and does not have the experience to really push hard like you or others do. If he had a coach or lifting partner to really push him it may be different.

It took me 2 years to hit a 225 bench. This is because my training sucked. I had the right set/rep schemes, adequate rest but I did not know how to do those reps nor did I know how to push myself. I did not have anyone to teach me.

Eric just eat less next time that simple. I learned the same way you did.

so you waited 2 years to decide you were wasting your time?

its one of the most natural, backbones of lifting

dont listen to him, eat more

@Eric - eat more, your cut clearly sucks if your eating next to nothing - go back to the drawing board


I've learnt the hard way that if you eat a ton of food on a bulk, without any restraint or structure, you will become fatter then an elephant, and you can barely see the muscle you put on...

clearly, what you did was idiocy, your body can only build muscle so fast, w/o help of course, if you ear 2k over maint a day, chances are a good bit will go to fat, which is why you bulk at 500 over, thats not a slow bulk, its a smart bulk

BFGUITAR
08-18-2008, 09:38 AM
so you waited 2 years to decide you were wasting your time?

its one of the most natural, backbones of lifting

dont listen to him, eat more

@Eric - eat more, your cut clearly sucks if your eating next to nothing - go back to the drawing board



clearly, what you did was idiocy, your body can only build muscle so fast, w/o help of course, if you ear 2k over maint a day, chances are a good bit will go to fat, which is why you bulk at 500 over, thats not a slow bulk, its a smart bulk

Waited? I never waited. I tried many things to find what works for me, and I now have. He is no different.

His diet does need work, but believe it or not, learning how to lift for some takes a lot of time.

RhodeHouse
08-18-2008, 12:10 PM
I gained plenty of muscle, so how could my training suck?

Just for argument sake, I'll explain that I was doing a 3 day split, 12-15 sets per day, 6-10 reps, mostly compound lifts, that doesn't seem like a ****ty training routine to me..

EC

If you got really fat, the training wasn't any good. You HAVE to gain fat to gain muscle. So, some fat is to be expected. But the no-restraint diet is the MOST effective way to build muscle. Couple that with solid training and you're golden. I've never counted a calorie in my life. I never counted protein until about 2 years ago (I was 30) and I was always able to gain a ton of muscle along with some fat. But, as stated earlier. fat and muscle go together. There are more factors that just compound exercises and 6-10 reps per set.

1. How many times did you puke while you trained?
2. How many times did you have to sit down for an hour after your training because you were unable to get to the locker room?
3. How many times did people come up to you and comment how hard you were training?
4. How many times did you get mad at yourself for not being able to complete the number of reps you had set for yourself?
5. How many times did you do more reps/sets eventhough you hit your goal and were totally unable to do more?

So, my guess is, your training sucked.

emjlr3
08-18-2008, 12:31 PM
1. - I can't believe your using your bodys natural defense when things go wrong internally as a measure of training effectiveness, that is completely idiotic - having said that - perhaps one time when i had my belt too tight for too long after haven eaten too mcuh too close to a session I felt like I wanted to puke - but just lifting hard, nah
2. - what did you do tare your quadricep? - take a nap?
3. usually makes me laugh, often means they aren't training hard enough - more hten anything
4. this one actually makes sense
5. so you could not do more yet you did - that makes a lot of sense

point being - don't follow that list

thewicked
08-18-2008, 01:07 PM
BEST thing i've found for strength and size.. 20-25cals per lb of bodyweight. REALLY packs it on FAST! And yeah cycling yoru total cals is a good idea. I've had such a hard time recovering lately from kicking my own ass in teh gym that i'm doing anything and everything to keep my stomach full of quality goodies. ALN has maximus which i'm absolutely in love with..if you want a solid supplement stack to go with your bulk to make things easier, ALN's mass stack is SICK! Definately worth the consideration.

vdizenzo
08-18-2008, 02:43 PM
1. - I can't believe your using your bodys natural defense when things go wrong internally as a measure of training effectiveness, that is completely idiotic - having said that - perhaps one time when i had my belt too tight for too long after haven eaten too mcuh too close to a session I felt like I wanted to puke - but just lifting hard, nah
2. - what did you do tare your quadricep? - take a nap?
3. usually makes me laugh, often means they aren't training hard enough - more hten anything
4. this one actually makes sense
5. so you could not do more yet you did - that makes a lot of sense

point being - don't follow that list

Yeah, I have trained with some of the strongest people in the world and that's not an exageration. One thing we all had in common was completely frying our cns. We have all puked during a workout. Yeah, that's how you know you pushed your body to the limit and beyond. It's fun seeing how some people never get it. What a f'ing joke!

vdizenzo
08-18-2008, 02:44 PM
point being - don't follow that list

What have you accomplished to qualify you as an expert?

RhodeHouse
08-18-2008, 04:58 PM
1. - I can't believe your using your bodys natural defense when things go wrong internally as a measure of training effectiveness, that is completely idiotic - having said that - perhaps one time when i had my belt too tight for too long after haven eaten too mcuh too close to a session I felt like I wanted to puke - but just lifting hard, nah
2. - what did you do tare your quadricep? - take a nap?
3. usually makes me laugh, often means they aren't training hard enough - more hten anything
4. this one actually makes sense
5. so you could not do more yet you did - that makes a lot of sense

point being - don't follow that list

You're 6' tall and 200lbs and you're gonna tell me I'm wrong? Really? How do you figure? That list is called TRAINING. You guys WORKOUT. There is a difference. Your response sheds light on the problem. You gyys don't know what it means to train. You talk the talk, but can't even step on the same field as me.

I warm-up with your maxes. When you can step into a gym and compete close to my level, then you can talk. Until then, know your place in the food chain. At the bottom, right below the aomeba. Go away.

Willie
08-18-2008, 09:08 PM
1. How many times did you puke while you trained?
2. How many times did you have to sit down for an hour after your training because you were unable to get to the locker room?
3. How many times did people come up to you and comment how hard you were training?
4. How many times did you get mad at yourself for not being able to complete the number of reps you had set for yourself?
5. How many times did you do more reps/sets even though you hit your goal and were totally unable to do more?

I don't know jack about bulking, but I have to agree here.

Look, I'm sure Matt doesn't say to himself "I'm gonna go make myself puke" before he lifts because that's not the goal.

But, if you've never experienced exercise induced vomiting then you haven't ever truly pushed yourself.

Matt and I are worlds apart in the type of training we do, but he's talking about your intensity.

I have pushed myself hard enough to make myself puke. I've had to nap after a workout. I've rolled around on the floor after a workout because it hurt to just lay still.


The last time I puked was during a bike race and I just puked off the side of the bike at the top of a climb. It came out my nose. I had to use my water bottle to clear my nasal passages. Unfortunately, I grabbed the wrong bottle and ended up squirting diluted Gatorade down my nose. It worked, but...man, that's not something I want to experience again!

EDIT: After thinking about this for a few minutes, I realize that most of my exercise induced vomiting has occurred largely during endurance efforts, such as bike races, sprints, conditioning drills and that I've never puked while squatting or deadlifting.

I'm not working hard enough on my squats and deadlifts, apparently.

emjlr3
08-19-2008, 11:51 AM
what do you consdier intensitry - if you mean pushing as hard as you can to get a lift up, then yea, i do that on a daily bases - if you mean consentrating entirely on the goal, focusing on the lift and really feeling the contraction, then yea, i do that on a daily basis too

wtf is this "intensity" you claim I don't have? - so your bigger then me, so you have lifted a decade longer then me - o ****ing well, I have lifted for 3 years solid, and through the ups and downs am still on top of my game - maybe your more genetically gifted then I am - maybe you walked into a gym one day and were magically strong as hell - does that give you the right to denounce anyone not lifting as much?

if puking is a measure of training intensity I want no part of it, its disgusting and completely uneeded

what have I accomplished? - hmm I went from a skinny ass 165lb senior in HS to a 200+lb strong, lean, well muscled young adult, exactly where I want to be - don't lecture me on accomplishments.


I warm-up with your maxes. When you can step into a gym and compete close to my level, then you can talk. Until then, know your place in the food chain. At the bottom, right below the aomeba. Go away.

Tennessee Mike
08-19-2008, 12:25 PM
When Rhodes gives advice,you should listen.Maybe he doesnt sugar coat it and blow sunshine up your skirt,but he tells it like it is.You should want to train harder after someone like him tells you they warmup with your max.You dont have to like him,but you should respect him for accomplishing the things he has.To start making accusations you know nothing about isnt gonna gain you many friends on here.You started the mess by calling him idiotic for advice he gave.

Mike G
08-19-2008, 12:45 PM
I will never understand why people get so offended when they hear the way the really strong guys on here got strong, they trained their asses off.

Ben Moore
08-19-2008, 02:22 PM
.When Rhodes gives advice,you should listen.Maybe he doesnt sugar coat it and blow sunshine up your skirt,but he tells it like it is.You should want to train harder after someone like him tells you they warmup with your max.You dont have to like him,but you should respect him for accomplishing the things he has.To start making accusations you know nothing about isnt gonna gain you many friends on here.You started the mess by calling him idiotic for advice he gave.
Agreed and might I add - when someone like Rhodes gives you these nuggets of wisdom it makes you upset for some reason. When the rest of us got advice like that, we put it into action and trained. That's how we got better.

You can continue to get mad and disregard anything any of the powerlifters say on here. While you are busy trying to ignore advice we are busy getting bigger, stronger, faster and leaner.

This is not rocket science. The reason you hear the same advice over and over again is simple: we all acheived what we have through simple hard work. Work hard, eat right and rest and that's it.

I'm not sure why so many people get so upset by this, but it's absolutely rediculous that it turns into this fight every time. Hopefully one day all this will click with some of you and we can say the advice didn't go unheard.

Travis Bell
08-19-2008, 02:32 PM
I think what happens is here we see some people who are content with where they are in their lifting, and others of us who will do whatever we need to do to be the best.

I've trained with some people who reacted the same way a few of you do. They found what I did obsessive, over complicated and extreme. Guess what, they were right! But they are all now sitting on their butts with no accomplishments to their name at all. They give me the line now " well I would have probably done...." or whatever. My favorite line is "I just didn't want to look too fat" - that was a line from my training partner at school last year. He didn't meet his goals either. Funny thing is, at the end of the year I was twice his size and more jacked than he was haha

If you're content with where you're at, thats fine, but don't insult those who do what it takes to get to the top. It really comes off as jealousy

vdizenzo
08-19-2008, 07:04 PM
I have taken advice from guys on this forum and the weightlifting forum who are not powerlifters. I never stop learning. Whether some of you like it or not, I am an elite level strength athlete. I did not get here by accident.

Eric Cartman
08-20-2008, 09:51 AM
A few comments:

1. Just for the record, I have passed out twice from doing squats.. :)

2. Do you recommend more then 15 sets on a bulk?

3. So you are saying if I train REALLY REALLY hard and eat a ton of food, pretty much an "eat everything in sight" kind of bulk, I won't gain much fat at all, and the fat will barely be noticeable?


EC

Travis Bell
08-20-2008, 12:04 PM
If I understand Rhodes correctly, no that last statement is not true. You have to gain fat to grow muscle. That is why after a bulk (assuming your a BBer) you cut. But you are correct in the sense that if you keep the intensity high the fat percentage won't be as high. Noticeable is a pretty vague term

IMO thats the best way to bulk. Eat eat and eat some more and work your butt off in the gym

Tennessee Mike
08-20-2008, 12:48 PM
Lets make it plain and simple..
We KNOW that if you dont eat enough,you will not grow new muscle or get bigger.So you have 2 options..
-Eat just enough food to promote new growth and leave nothing else.or...
-Eat more than enough to ensure you support new growth.

Its a no brainer.Why bust your butt in a gym and only half ass the nutrition because your worried about a little bodyfat?No one is saying you have to be 300lbs.Just take in more calories than you "need".Trust me,whenever you see a big ripped bodybuilder,be sure to realize that he spent time bulking.Arnold,Dorian,Haney,Cutler,Coleman...All of them.And powerlifters do it too.When they feel sloppy or want to compete in another class,they diet.Anyone who tells you to stay lean while adding weight,or to do a "clean bulk",have obviously never done it before.You have most of the top level guys on here,or at least guys you wished you looked like telling you how its done.Its time to stop asking and start eating and training for size.Commit to it.

Holto
08-20-2008, 02:50 PM
I can't remember the formula, others will know

There is no formula. It is observed. If you eat 4000 cals/day for two weeks and don't gain or lose weight, that is your maintenance.

Holto
08-20-2008, 02:53 PM
If you got really fat, the training wasn't any good.

...or he ate more than he needed to recover and grow.



You HAVE to gain fat to gain muscle.

This is utterly false.



But the no-restraint diet is the MOST effective way to build muscle.

It sure is. The only downside is the time spent cutting afterwards. Your not growing while your cutting, so that is downtime. If you do a controlled and disciplined bulk, you waste less time cutting.



1. How many times did you puke while you trained?
2. How many times did you have to sit down for an hour after your training because you were unable to get to the locker room?
3. How many times did people come up to you and comment how hard you were training?
4. How many times did you get mad at yourself for not being able to complete the number of reps you had set for yourself?
5. How many times did you do more reps/sets eventhough you hit your goal and were totally unable to do more?

^ this part is pretty cool...can't argue with that.

Holto
08-20-2008, 02:58 PM
When you can step into a gym and compete close to my level, then you can talk.

Sorry, how many world class PL's are there on this board?

What 5 or 6?

So all of the comments on this entire board should come from you and a handful of others?

The guy I learned the most from on this board was skinny and weak [Bradley], I took what he taught me and got big and strong...

Holto
08-20-2008, 02:59 PM
One thing we all had in common was completely frying our cns. We have all puked during a workout.

I hope you're not trying to draw a parallel there...

vdizenzo
08-20-2008, 03:23 PM
I hope you're not trying to draw a parallel there...

Why, is there no correlation between frying your cns and puking?

Listen, I really don't give a flying f_ck what most of you have to say. What I do know is that when I work with an athlete I get him or her to perform better than ever before. I get paid for my advice. Take it if you want or don't. It's really of no consequence to me. I will continue to give seminars, win money in lifting contests, be sponsored by various companies, get invited to compete at contests such as the Powerlifting Supershow at the Olympia, etc. regardless of what internet know-it-alls who have accomplished nothing think.

Holto
08-20-2008, 03:32 PM
Why, is there no correlation between frying your cns and puking?

No, there isn't.

Now, this knowledge certainly doesn't help me lift, but it sure allows me to spot the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

vdizenzo
08-20-2008, 03:44 PM
No, there isn't.

Now, this knowledge certainly doesn't help me lift, but it sure allows me to spot the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

Prove to me there is no correlation.

vdizenzo
08-20-2008, 03:50 PM
No, there isn't.

Now, this knowledge certainly doesn't help me lift, but it sure allows me to spot the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

Here you go:

Nausea and vomiting may also stem from reactions in the central nervous system (CNS). If your illness does not seem to be caused by digestive problems, see your doctor to determine if it is caused by your central nervous system (CNS), which consists of the brain and spinal cord. Some of these causes include motion sickness, emotional responses to unpleasant smells or stress, a build-up of urine in the blood (uremia), or elevated levels of thyroid hormone (hyperthyroidism).

Taken from : http://www.pdrhealth.com/disease/disease-mono.aspx?contentFileName=BHG01GA06.xml&contentName=Nausea+and+Vomiting&contentId=105



This information is all over the place. Now be a man and admit you are wrong. I doubt you have the balls to even do that.

Holto
08-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Prove to me there is no correlation.

Well, imagining I would even venture into such a discussion. I would say the onus is on you to prove a positive.

Ben Moore
08-20-2008, 03:51 PM
There is no formula. It is observed. If you eat 4000 cals/day for two weeks and don't gain or lose weight, that is your maintenance.

No, there actually is a formula to give you a rough estimate based on basal metabolic rate. Are there any other subjects you'd like to discuss for which you have no business jumping into?

Holto
08-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Here you go:

Nausea and vomiting may also stem from reactions in the central nervous system (CNS). If your illness does not seem to be caused by digestive problems, see your doctor to determine if it is caused by your central nervous system (CNS), which consists of the brain and spinal cord. Some of these causes include motion sickness, emotional responses to unpleasant smells or stress, a build-up of urine in the blood (uremia), or elevated levels of thyroid hormone (hyperthyroidism).

Taken from : http://www.pdrhealth.com/disease/disease-mono.aspx?contentFileName=BHG01GA06.xml&contentName=Nausea+and+Vomiting&contentId=105

This information is all over the place. Now be a man and admit you are wrong. I doubt you have the balls to even do that.

Sorry, how is this relevant to lifting?

Since the info is "all over the place" you should be able to find something relevant.

AJ_H
08-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Here you go:

Nausea and vomiting may also stem from reactions in the central nervous system (CNS). If your illness does not seem to be caused by digestive problems, see your doctor to determine if it is caused by your central nervous system (CNS), which consists of the brain and spinal cord. Some of these causes include motion sickness.

I guess I'm gonna be pretty prone to puking when lifting then.

Holto
08-20-2008, 03:54 PM
No, there actually is a formula to give you a rough estimate based on basal metabolic rate. Are there any other subjects you'd like to discuss for which you have no business jumping into?

You know what this is right?

You know that a person is almost NEVER at their BMR right?

Ben Moore
08-20-2008, 03:56 PM
You know what this is right?

You know that a person is almost NEVER at their BMR right?

Again, rough estimate - trying out those new ears are ya?:hello:

Tennessee Mike
08-20-2008, 04:02 PM
Holto,what are you trying to accomplish here?Challenging and insulting people that are sponsored athletes?Guys who have benched 800lbs,squatted 1,000.Maybe that doesnt impress you,but its something youve never done.You dont have to follow their advice,but dont be disrespectful.

vdizenzo
08-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Sorry, how is this relevant to lifting?

Since the info is "all over the place" you should be able to find something relevant.

Can you not read you psuedo intellectual?

"emotional responses to unpleasant smells or stress"

If you ever lifted super max weights you would realize that it is very stressful and emotional. However, I would not expect someone of your lifting caliber to understand that.

Holto
08-20-2008, 05:15 PM
Again, rough estimate - trying out those new ears are ya?:hello:

So you realize I'm talking about calculation, and (as I clearly missed it) your talking about estimation.

What was your point then?

I'm saying it can't be calculated.

Holto
08-20-2008, 05:18 PM
You dont have to follow their advice,but dont be disrespectful.

I don't have to respect them because they can lift heavy stuff either. In the Powerlifting forum, I agree, he should be shown respect as he's a vet at the top of HIS sport, but being an elite PL does not qualify him as a nutrition expert.

If they're dead wrong about something, such as you have to gain fat to gain muscle, I'll point it out, this is wbb, this is how it's always been. People must be accountable for what they post.

vdizenzo
08-20-2008, 06:22 PM
I notice Holto just completely disregards my response to him about cns and vomiting. Man up son and admit you were wrong for once in your life.

Eric Cartman
08-20-2008, 08:18 PM
Its time to stop asking and start eating and training for size.Commit to it.

Well I'm 184 lbs and about 20% BodyFat, so I don't think it is time to start training for size, till I get my bodyfat down...

EC

vdizenzo
08-20-2008, 08:56 PM
Well I'm 184 lbs and about 20% BodyFat, so I don't think it is time to start training for size, till I get my bodyfat down...

EC

Train harder. Work cardio and conditioning and the bf will take care of itself.

drew
08-21-2008, 02:24 PM
While I've puked a few times as a result of training, I never knew what real intensity was until I started training at Southside. I think it's funny to argue over whether frying your cns can make you puke. You don't need to research much to know that, and if you've ever actually done it, you don't need to research at all.

I remember after one meet where I had opened my bench with a PR, went 3/3 then pulled a PR and just missed another PR for a PR push/pull total (that's 5 PRs all in one day) I went out to the buffet for dinner and I just couldn't eat. I wanted to eat, I needed to, but I couldn't. I was messed up for about a week afterward. Was it coincidence? Or had I just worked so hard that my nervous system kicked me in the ass? Maybe I need to go look in a book.

Vincent and Rhodes have taught me more about training, lifting heavy, dieting, and just all-around doing what you need to do than I ever could have read in a book. For the nay-sayers, please come and train with us any Friday night and you'll see. We work our asses off, and we all get better and stronger.

And as much as Rhodes comes off as a jerk, if you read what he has to say and try it, you'll see that he's just trying to help you get through the crap and into the meat of what really works. Rhodes is really one of the best people I know, as much as he thinks I'm joking when I say that. He's even willing to go so far as to try and help people who continually tell him that his way is wrong.

RhodeHouse
08-22-2008, 09:45 AM
Holto - add something constructive or go away. You've accomplished nothing and have nothing to show for your horrible advice. Be gone with you. Go to Dairy Queen.

Lumiel
08-22-2008, 12:45 PM
PSMF

Yep... Notorious is right. PSMF did the trick.

Lumiel
08-22-2008, 12:49 PM
If you got really fat, the training wasn't any good. You HAVE to gain fat to gain muscle. So, some fat is to be expected. But the no-restraint diet is the MOST effective way to build muscle. Couple that with solid training and you're golden. I've never counted a calorie in my life. I never counted protein until about 2 years ago (I was 30) and I was always able to gain a ton of muscle along with some fat. But, as stated earlier. fat and muscle go together. There are more factors that just compound exercises and 6-10 reps per set.

1. How many times did you puke while you trained?
2. How many times did you have to sit down for an hour after your training because you were unable to get to the locker room?
3. How many times did people come up to you and comment how hard you were training?
4. How many times did you get mad at yourself for not being able to complete the number of reps you had set for yourself?
5. How many times did you do more reps/sets eventhough you hit your goal and were totally unable to do more?

So, my guess is, your training sucked.

I know this comment wasn't directed at me, but I figured I'd answer the questions for the hell of it.

1) Didn't puke but came DAMN close twice
2) Not for an hour, but definitely have a hard time getting back to the locker room after every workout. Had to sit and just slowly sip water for about 20 min after one of my more recent depleted workouts because I thought I was going to black out.
3) At least once a month I get this question - and it's usually when I'm doing deads
4) Often. Like every time I bench press.
5) I always up my weights when I get to that point so that I can't push out any more reps.

vdizenzo
08-22-2008, 09:12 PM
I know this comment wasn't directed at me, but I figured I'd answer the questions for the hell of it.

1) Didn't puke but came DAMN close twice
2) Not for an hour, but definitely have a hard time getting back to the locker room after every workout. Had to sit and just slowly sip water for about 20 min after one of my more recent depleted workouts because I thought I was going to black out.
3) At least once a month I get this question - and it's usually when I'm doing deads
4) Often. Like every time I bench press.
5) I always up my weights when I get to that point so that I can't push out any more reps.

NICE!

Travis Bell
08-26-2008, 09:22 PM
Well boys, this thread continues to get off topic. There has been some great info expressed here though so hopefully the OP had his question answered.