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View Full Version : Why Have The Records Increased? Your Thoughts Here!



SGT ROCK
08-16-2008, 09:09 PM
I know this subject gets alot of face time, but not so much on here recently, so lets have a CIVIL discussion on the HUGE increase in the squat and bench over the past few years and on the evolution of our sport in recent times. I was reading a PL USA from the 90's and then dug one out from the 80's and compared the top 100 to now in a few weight classes. The DL has GONE DOWN......BY A DECENT MARGIN in some classes, while the Squats and Benches are A HUGE DISPARITY. We are talking ten percent or better! Obviously gear is the biggest factor, but also don't forget early weighins, widespread access to more drugs (including the intro to IGF and widespead availability of GH), better training techniques, and in some cases cash prizes. What do you feel are the causes of such increases? A few decades ago an 800 pull was considered HUGE in any weight class, now it seems its even MORE rare. At one point only Arcidi and Lane and a select few benched 700, now it takes 900 or more to get that same reaction, I never thought I would see someone bench more than they can pull and still post world record type totals, but it is happening alot now. Please remember, this is not bashing any lifter whatsoever, as in don't hate the player hate the game, it is about the changes that have taken place in gear etc. How about the judging? When I first started PLing the judging in every single fed I went to was ultra strict, it was the norm. Those judging standards don't exist now except perhaps the IPF which I have never competed. Whats your opinion? Are the changes good? I personally love the gear and enjoy the hard work it takes to find the right fit especially in DL suits, I do wish someday we could narrow down the feds and come up with one or even two world championships, all with tighter judging. Thoughts? I still feel if there was one world championships, for arguements sake lets say doulbe ply gear, 24 hour weigh in, monolift, and no drug test (for arguements sake) the USA would still be the best in a team championship.

Some of my reasons for the increases:

Gear
Weigh in times (The WPO allowed 48) and the old USPF or IPF was a two hour same day weigh in for instance
Drugs
Cash Prizes (although cash doesnt motivate many, it did put the best lifters at one venue to push each other to new heights. I personally LOVED watching the WPO at the Arnold. Seeing Eddy, Chuck, Frank, Bolton, and so many others was a spectacle we probably havent seen since.
Training techniques
The Monolift
Judging (including the internet and frequent tapes of lifts. This has surely changed things. Many ask WHERES THE VIDEO after any world record lift. Has the judging of all time WR's gotten looser over the years?


Semper Fi

WillNoble
08-16-2008, 09:14 PM
Interesting thread, I agree with several of your points, most notably



Gear
Weigh in times
Drugs
The Monolift

I would also add the internet to that. The internet has opened the world of PL to many who would have never known of its existence. It also has allowed for the widespread dissemination of top training protocols and technique, again to people who never would have known

Reko
08-16-2008, 09:15 PM
I think also it is (to me it seems) starting to become more and more popular. Granted, the new kids will take 10 years or so before they are in the record breaking range, but the bigger the sport gets, the more likely we will have the guys who are willing to do everything it takes to get it, and also see more guys who are more genetically gifted to compete in the sport.

Also, once one person gets a lift that seems monumentous, it kind of acts as a catalyst for other lifters, be it in new goals, or knowing that its possible. Look at the 4 minute mile, it was said it could never been done, and then once it was, a bunch of people started breaking it.

SGT ROCK
08-17-2008, 08:48 PM
Anyone else?

Semper Fi

Eric Downey
08-17-2008, 09:49 PM
Training is a huge difference for sure as well as the support of the thicker bench shirts and squat suits. The dead hasn't moved much b/c even a dead lift suit doesn't help many people that much.

By the way I had the pleasure of getting personal bench tips from Ken Lane this weekend at Europa. Big Gene, Kathy and Bobby field and I were getting some of Kens personal experience knowledge. Everything from opening attempts to traveling and competing. An unexpected treat for sure.

Rock I did get your message to. Peyton is doing great after surgery. Still some pain but that'll be there for a while.

Reko
08-17-2008, 10:44 PM
What about better equipment/training/meet conditions?
Monolift was also mentioned, but bars with more/less whip in them can aid in certain lifts.

jtteg_x
08-18-2008, 01:50 AM
other than what was already posted: the introduction and use of PL tools (boards, chains, bands), invention of superior assistance work (floor press, tate press, db rollovers, chain/band work, GHR, etc), and now powerlifting is more exploited and out there because were up in the 1000lb bench category that makes any human being's jaw drop to the ground.

sayagain
08-18-2008, 02:52 PM
I would also add the internet to that. The internet has opened the world of PL to many who would have never known of its existence. It also has allowed for the widespread dissemination of top training protocols and technique, again to people who never would have known

I agree with this. There are so many articles on training out there and places like this and elitefts with the pro's willing to help in any way that they can. While there is no substitute for training at some of the top gyms with strong guys, having resources online where guys are willing to pick apart your form on video or help you come up with a training template that will address your weaknesses certainly makes it easier to get stronger. Also this leads to a lot of networking that makes it easier to find other guys in your area that have similar interests.

RhodeHouse
08-18-2008, 05:03 PM
Gear

chris mason
08-18-2008, 05:12 PM
Yep, it is primarily the gear or you would see bigger jumps in the deadlift etc.

SGT ROCK
08-19-2008, 01:04 AM
Lets add in 55lb squat bars and deadlift bars to the mix, they DEF make a difference.

Semper Fi

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
08-19-2008, 06:43 AM
Definitely, gear is the primary reason! Also, that's a good thing too:clap:

TRAIN HARD

"BIG WILLIE" J.T. HALL
GOT MAXIMUM MASS STACK?
http://www.youtube.com/user/NASAKYCHAIRMAN

Eric Downey
08-19-2008, 10:08 AM
Gear and training in powerlifing is no different than the advancment in golf clubs and balls.

PriestCometh
08-21-2008, 04:31 PM
-Gear - Not really gear, but the advancement of gear was big.
-Drugs
-Cash Prizes - I know if money is involved, people will show to try to win it. I know that when the WPO was around I took 4 months to get ready for just 3 lifts.
-Training techniques - The understanding of these trainings. Awhile back if someone was a westside type lifter, that is all they did. Now people mix a little westside/metal militia/etc to try to get the best results possible.
-The Monolift
-Lose Judging
-More people in the sport now than then. Which means more training partners, so you can let it all hang out in training.
-I think it has gotten alot more fun now, compared to yesteryears. Lets take the WPO for instance. A big stage to lift on. Many people in the crowd. Card girls. Loud music. Teams(westside, ngbb, big iron, etc.)

jessekellum
08-21-2008, 07:59 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is why the lifts inthe wpo were so high.Every other reason is valid,but believe me,money was the biggest motivating factor(and reason)why the lifts went up so high.I was making 20,000 a year in pl when the wpo was alive and kicking.Those were the best meets that I have ever competed in,and probably why I didn't quit competing a long time ago.I hope to put on some big $ meets like that in the future to help motivate others like I was.JK

RhodeHouse
08-21-2008, 09:01 PM
Gear

chris mason
08-21-2008, 10:16 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is why the lifts inthe wpo were so high.Every other reason is valid,but believe me,money was the biggest motivating factor(and reason)why the lifts went up so high.I was making 20,000 a year in pl when the wpo was alive and kicking.Those were the best meets that I have ever competed in,and probably why I didn't quit competing a long time ago.I hope to put on some big $ meets like that in the future to help motivate others like I was.JK

Jesse, I would love to build AtLarge to the point where we can put on meets like you are describing. I have said it all along, I want to have BIG $ meets which bring the best of the best. That said, it is all about the powerlifting community helping themselves by helping us. If every single powerlifter got at least some of their supps from us we would be big enough to hold $100k meets.

Think of it this way, we are a small weenie company now and we are spending literally thousands a month supporting the powerlifting community.

The thing that frustrates me is trying to find a way to get the word out. There are literally hundreds of thousands of powerlifters in the US. They can be a huge force if they would get behind something and support it full bore.

I GUARANTEE you that if we were selling supps like some of the big boys the world of powerlifting would change forever. Much like professional bodybuilding, the best powerlifters would be able to make a COMFORTABLE living competing in their sport of choice.

Jesse, guys like you and the other name powerlifters on these boards and others can help by spreading the word! You can help to make it happen. I am as serious as it gets on this topic.

If anyone wants to speak to me personally about this feel free to do so at the Pro-Am this weekend.

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
08-22-2008, 06:41 AM
Jesse, I would love to build AtLarge to the point where we can put on meets like you are describing. I have said it all along, I want to have BIG $ meets which bring the best of the best. That said, it is all about the powerlifting community helping themselves by helping us. If every single powerlifter got at least some of their supps from us we would be big enough to hold $100k meets.

Think of it this way, we are a small weenie company now and we are spending literally thousands a month supporting the powerlifting community.

The thing that frustrates me is trying to find a way to get the word out. There are literally hundreds of thousands of powerlifters in the US. They can be a huge force if they would get behind something and support it full bore.

I GUARANTEE you that if we were selling supps like some of the big boys the world of powerlifting would change forever. Much like professional bodybuilding, the best powerlifters would be able to make a COMFORTABLE living competing in their sport of choice.

Jesse, guys like you and the other name powerlifters on these boards and others can help by spreading the word! You can help to make it happen. I am as serious as it gets on this topic.

If anyone wants to speak to me personally about this feel free to do so at the Pro-Am this weekend.

Great point Chris! This is why I enjoy promoting AtLarge Nutrition through the various internet sites. Also, I like to keep Atlarge Nutrition flyers in my gym bag and give to the lifters in KY. The more customers you get, the more money you can put back in the Powerlifting Community. I'm looking forward to competing in a Pro AtLarge Nutrition Bp meet someday:thumbup:

Keep up the great job that you do!!

TRAIN HARD

"BIG WILLIE" J.T. HALL
GOT MAXIMUM MASS STACK?
http://www.youtube.com/user/NASAKYCHAIRMAN

joelhall
08-22-2008, 02:35 PM
biggest id say would be the gear, more people doing it, technique and the judging. lets not forget how the judging went with the clean & press in OL. a little bend here, slightly bigger there...

some guys you see on the bench, complete with rhino-skin thick (a slight exaggeration ill grant you) bench shirts, have such an arch its just a decline press.

clearly im a raw fan ;)

TNDeadlifter
08-26-2008, 05:03 PM
What about change in our society and culture. Used to, when many people did manual labor for their jobs, full body strength like lifting things from the groudn and overhead were respected. Now that most people don't do those jobs anymore and we lounge aroudn at teh beach in tank tops, the bench press has taken over. It seems like bodybuilding and looks have taken the place of brute man strength since our strength went from having to be functional to something that is more cosmetic and not as important to our livelihood. In those countries that still respect overall brute strength (Eastern Europe, Northern Europe) they still have big pulls going strong and lag behind us in the bench and bodybuilding.

Ryano
08-26-2008, 06:51 PM
My personal records go up because I get stronger every day! (That and gear)LOL

40 Nunc
08-26-2008, 07:04 PM
Gear


Gear

RhodeHouse, what are you trying to say? Lol...

Rob Luyando
08-31-2008, 04:46 PM
I can't say equuipment because the shirts haven't change much the last 5 years. Big Gene wore the SUPER Duper Phenom for years. Just took other longer to try it out. I think with more freaks coming out of the wood work every day. The top dogs are just busting there ass that much more and taking more time to master the equipment the choose to wear. My work load and intesity has increased 40% since I hit my first 700. Just a matter of how bad you want it.