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Chubrock
10-01-2008, 06:31 PM
I typically try not to get wrapped up in this ****, as arguing on the net just makes me appear dumb. With that said, I can't stand people spouting terrible technique as gospel, especially when a newer lifter is specifically asking for advice.

I got into it with a guy on the Crossfit forums. Among other, smaller things, he's continued to argue that every squatter should have the elbows placed as high up behind the bar as possible. In his words, this creates a better "shelf". Let's forget the fact that it closes the chest, reduces arch and causes the weight to drift forward. I tried to be civil, and then quoted some articles by Tate and others, but he continues to harp that his CF buddies are the gurus, and that if PLers were more flexible, they wouldn't draw the elbows under. I think I'm going to have to go Rhodes on this dumbass.


I'm done. Damn. Alright everybody, let me know how ******ed I am for arguing over the net.

Fuzzy
10-01-2008, 06:54 PM
Ummm... now that i think about it, I have my elbows pretty high up when I squat.

Doesn't it make a difference if you're a high bar full squatter?

However, alot of the CF guys seem to think they are revolutionary geniuses...

Ben Moore
10-01-2008, 07:05 PM
I typically try not to get wrapped up in this ****, as arguing on the net just makes me appear dumb. With that said, I can't stand people spouting terrible technique as gospel, especially when a newer lifter is specifically asking for advice.

I got into it with a guy on the Crossfit forums. Among other, smaller things, he's continued to argue that every squatter should have the elbows placed as high up behind the bar as possible. In his words, this creates a better "shelf". Let's forget the fact that it closes the chest, reduces arch and causes the weight to drift forward. I tried to be civil, and then quoted some articles by Tate and others, but he continues to harp that his CF buddies are the gurus, and that if PLers were more flexible, they wouldn't draw the elbows under. I think I'm going to have to go Rhodes on this dumbass.


I'm done. Damn. Alright everybody, let me know how ******ed I am for arguing over the net.
.....

Chubrock
10-01-2008, 07:14 PM
Fuzzy- I've seen your video. You don't squat with that high of an elbow placement.

Ben- I know, I know. I'm ashamed of myself but I suppose the first step is to admit that I have a problem.

Notorious
10-01-2008, 07:39 PM
I typically try not to get wrapped up in this ****, as arguing on the net just makes me appear dumb. With that said, I can't stand people spouting terrible technique as gospel, especially when a newer lifter is specifically asking for advice.

I got into it with a guy on the Crossfit forums. Among other, smaller things, he's continued to argue that every squatter should have the elbows placed as high up behind the bar as possible. In his words, this creates a better "shelf". Let's forget the fact that it closes the chest, reduces arch and causes the weight to drift forward. I tried to be civil, and then quoted some articles by Tate and others, but he continues to harp that his CF buddies are the gurus, and that if PLers were more flexible, they wouldn't draw the elbows under. I think I'm going to have to go Rhodes on this dumbass.


I'm done. Damn. Alright everybody, let me know how ******ed I am for arguing over the net.

Mark Rippetoe teaches the same thing. It basically ensures that you are not putting unnecessary stress on your wrists and elbows.

Basically, there are multiple "correct" ways to do exercises, and you can make arguments for all of them. Don't worry about it too much.

Chubrock
10-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Mark Rippetoe teaches the same thing. It basically ensures that you are not putting unnecessary stress on your wrists and elbows.
.

I've not seen Rippetoe teach having the elbows placed up as high as possible, which is what this guy was advocating. Even in SS, the pictures of his athletes show a pretty neutral elbow placement.

Notorious
10-01-2008, 08:08 PM
I've not seen Rippetoe teach having the elbows placed up as high as possible, which is what this guy was advocating. Even in SS, the pictures of his athletes show a pretty neutral elbow placement.

It's a cue to teach keeping your wrists straight. (He advises it on the StrengthMill forums).

Chubrock
10-01-2008, 08:16 PM
After watching his video, even Rippetoe squats with the elbows drawn under. What cue does he use, and what's he looking to accomplish?

Brad08
10-02-2008, 05:41 AM
He says keeping the elbows up locks the upper back better. He's fielded questions about why powerlifters keep the elbows down, and he replied (IIRC) that its a different squat style and that it's wrong to do "elbows up" but let the chest slump or cave, which is what a lot of people wind up doing when they crank their elbows up.

Also, you're stupid for internet debates, especially with Cultfitters.

Chubrock
10-02-2008, 06:25 AM
but let the chest slump or cave, which is what a lot of people wind up doing when they crank their elbows up.

Also, you're stupid for internet debates, especially with Cultfitters.


That was the point that I was trying to drive home to him. I've seen very few people be able to keep the chest up and the arch as tight as possible with the bar driving them forward. As for locking the upper back up, that might be true at the expense of relaxing between the shoulders blades. That's interesting that he would recommend that, especially when he doesn't squat in that manner.

As for your last point. I agree. I'm a dumbass. I've only ventured over there a couple of times and each time I see this guy giving the same advice to people who are already squatting with the elbows high and who are caving at the chest.

Oh well, it's a new morning.

Fuzzy
10-02-2008, 07:39 AM
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc183/big_fuzzy/squat.jpg

Does this count as high chub?

I think people are over thinking it, I just get under the bar and my body sorts out the rest. Chest you, back tight, your arms will do what they need to...

Chubrock
10-02-2008, 07:46 AM
Does this count as high chub?



I don't think that's high, but I'm not the best person to ask. Compared to what I've seen, that is definitely not high and doesn't appear to be keeping you from bringing the chest up high.

What I consider a problem is when the elbows are brought up high in order to create a larger "shelf" but the lifter caves over at the chest from the shift in weight. It's just as easy to support the weight by bringing the elbows under and squeezing the shoulder blades and middle of the back together.

Edit: By the way, nice spandex haha.

Fuzzy
10-02-2008, 07:53 AM
I don't think that's high, but I'm not the best person to ask. Compared to what I've seen, that is definitely not high and doesn't appear to be keeping you from bringing the chest up high.

What I consider a problem is when the elbows are brought up high in order to create a larger "shelf" but the lifter caves over at the chest from the shift in weight. It's just as easy to support the weight by bringing the elbows under and squeezing the shoulder blades and middle of the back together.

Edit: By the way, nice spandex haha.

Well, I don't understand how someone would raise their elbows enough to do that, that just makes no sense, in fact it belies all logic.


Don't talk crap about my skins! They hug my figure well. On a practical note my shins and quads don't get cut up so bad, and there is nit loose fabric as there is with shorts.

And my ass looks fantastic!

Chubrock
10-02-2008, 08:00 AM
And my ass looks fantastic!



So that's what kind've team you're on Fuzzy haha. You said you enjoyed the group you were with, but I had no idea it was like that.

BFGUITAR
10-02-2008, 08:47 AM
I was going to write something very inappropriate but I've received enough warning messages from cpahfner in my stay here lol.

Yeh I'm with fuzzy, my elbows are similar to his. I've seen many PLers squat with their arms wide and I think it looks odd to me. Keeping the elbows slightly back helps me stick my chest out more. Like notorious said, there are many ways to squat.

Chubrock
10-02-2008, 08:52 AM
Keeping the elbows slightly back helps me stick my chest out more. Like notorious said, there are many ways to squat.


The technique that was being discussed wasn't about the elbows being slightly back. In fact, I don't know anybody that squats with their elbows pulled all the way under. What was being said was that the elbows should be set as high up as possible. This was said to a lifter that was already caving over at the chest.

Anthony
10-02-2008, 09:08 AM
First, chubs, the guys depth was not "fine" ... most of his reps were high.

Second, you're arguing with a guy who is simply regurgitating Rippetoe's stuff. Rip does advocate a hip drive out of the hole with the chin down (he explains why in SS). It's not poor technique, it's a difference of opinion. Whether you agree with his style or not is the question.

Third, the argument has nothing to do with CrossFit or the internet. Maybe you should stop bitching about having an intelligent conversation about two styles of squatting and be happy that YOU'RE BOTH ****ING SQUATTING.

:D

Chubrock
10-02-2008, 09:40 AM
Third, the argument has nothing to do with CrossFit or the internet. Maybe you should stop bitching about having an intelligent conversation about two styles of squatting and be happy that YOU'RE BOTH ****ING SQUATTING.

:D

Hey now, no facts allowed. This is a rant.


Just an aside, I don't disagree with the chin being neutral and driving the hips out of the hole. I was saying that there needs to be a focus on driving the head and upperback into the bar so that the weight doesn't end up out front. I may have been taking his comments in a manner in which he didn't intend, and if that's the case than that's my fault.

brihead301
10-02-2008, 12:10 PM
I love arguing with people on the internet from the hours of 8 am to 5 pm. I have nothing better to do at work.

Sensei
10-03-2008, 03:39 PM
You really shouldn't bother Chubs. Like Anthony said, they are just regurgitating info they've heard without giving the issue any real thought (or experience) of their own.