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BigTallOx
10-13-2008, 01:22 PM
I find that when I'm benching near my max, I can't help but lower the weight super slow. This is raw. My arms are really long, so I know it's going to take me longer to lower the bar than other shorter arm guys, but it's even slower than that. It seems that no matter how hard I try to lower it faster, I just can't for some reason. I think its affecting my max bench because I'm using all my energy on the decent. Maybe it's part mental, but I'm thinking it probably points to a weakness that I need to work on strengthening, but I'm not really sure what it is. Should I be doing negatives? Any advice would be appreciated.

Ryano
10-13-2008, 01:46 PM
I've never been a fan of negatives. I think you probably need more back work. H-rolls & heavy rows.

BigTallOx
10-13-2008, 01:51 PM
I've never been a fan of negatives.

Yeah, me either.



I think you probably need more back work. H-rolls & heavy rows.

OK. Thanks.

Travis Bell
10-13-2008, 01:53 PM
Negatives are a big no no IMO

Theyd only make you lower it slower anyways.

Really you've just got to force yourself to lower it faster. its a mental thing. Plop that sucker on your chest

BigTallOx
10-13-2008, 01:57 PM
Negatives are a big no no IMO

That's what I thought people would say, I just didn't know if it could help in my case. Thanks.



Really you've just got to force yourself to lower it faster. its a mental thing. Plop that sucker on your chest

You're probably right. I was hoping it wasn't all mental, the mental part's the hardest part.

growthrep
10-13-2008, 04:56 PM
I'm the same way, pal. It is mental. Just get a spot for your max out sets and damn do it right, knowing that your buddy is there if you get in trouble.

Travis Bell
10-13-2008, 05:11 PM
What most people do is progressively get slower and slower as the weight increases. As soon as you start slowing down you have to force yourself to speed up the descent.

Invain
10-13-2008, 05:41 PM
Travis, how exactly would you suggest working on decent speed besides just "forcing yourself?" Is there anything we can do in training to help? I have the same problem the heavier the weight gets. When I do heavy board presses I move like a snail and with as little stamina I have it definitely hurts my bench.

Travis Bell
10-13-2008, 06:59 PM
Not really. When I'm raw benching I lower 350lbs the same way I lower 550lbs. You just have to release the bar

Twirl
10-13-2008, 09:32 PM
Would speed training help this? I have the same problem.

BigTallOx
10-14-2008, 06:33 AM
Would speed training help this? I have the same problem.

For me, I'm finding that DE work is helping my explosiveness moving the weight up, but it's not helping me bring the weight down quicker when benching max singles. Maybe it's 100% mental ( I wish it wasn't, I'd rather be able to train to strengthen a physical weakness. ). No matter what it is, I think it's the number one thing limiting my max bench ( ie I'm using WAY too much energy bringing it down. ).

drew
10-14-2008, 07:03 AM
The weight is heavier, so it should be able to move down faster (that's physics brotha). It's a mental thing. You need to train all of your benches with more speed coming down (while still under control). Having a training partner screaming at you to get the bar down helps a lot.

BigTallOx
10-14-2008, 07:18 AM
Having a training partner screaming at you to get the bar down helps a lot.

Oh, I've got that. Even that hasn't helped much.

bill
10-14-2008, 07:36 AM
One thing you could try is to find out at what wt you start to slow down, use that as first road block to get past. Like Travis said as the wt gets heavier that is when people tend to get slower and slower... So work on the first wt that gets slow because you will have more confidence with that wt.

I think that is how I injured my chest, slowing down as I got into bigger wts and it puts more stress on you, changes the normal way you been benching.

pocoloco blanka
10-14-2008, 08:14 AM
have you ever tried putting a half board on you chest and start with a light weight and just let it fall on your de day? doing this over time will help in my opinion. the use of bands have also helped me.:hello:

MNRob
10-14-2008, 08:22 AM
The weight is heavier, so it should be able to move down faster (that's physics brotha). It's a mental thing. You need to train all of your benches with more speed coming down (while still under control). Having a training partner screaming at you to get the bar down helps a lot.


Actually weight has nothing to do with how fast an object will wall (see famous picture of Neil Armstrong dropping a feather and a tool on the moon).


/smart ass comment for the morning! :moon:


Same here Ox, I can't seem to get myself to let the weight fall to me and end up with this hour long negative. Having someone spot me helps a lot but finding that in my gym is like finding a skinny chick at weigh****chers!

drew
10-14-2008, 08:28 AM
Actually weight has nothing to do with how fast an object will wall (see famous picture of Neil Armstrong dropping a feather and a tool on the moon).

It does when you're providing resistance against the weight. :D

bill
10-14-2008, 11:54 AM
maybe try benching out of a power rack, set the pins so you know it's only going to barely touch your chest no matter what.

Travis Bell
10-14-2008, 11:58 AM
You guys are seriously over thinking this. Just freaking drop that bar faster

BigTallOx
10-14-2008, 11:58 AM
maybe try benching out of a power rack, set the pins so you know it's only going to barely touch your chest no matter what.

I'll try that. Thanks.

BigTallOx
10-14-2008, 12:00 PM
You guys are seriously over thinking this. Just freaking drop that bar faster

But, why is that SOOO HARD! LOL.

I think you're right though. I'm going to try the power rack suggestion. At least that way my brain will know it's not going to crush me. Maybe that will help getting over my mental block.

Thanks.

Travis Bell
10-14-2008, 12:52 PM
Its really not that hard dude. You are scared of the weight is all. Man up and release that bar. I don't think setting the pins high is going to really help because as soon as you take them away you're right back to square one.

I wouldn't lie to you guys. There are no tricks, no special training techniques, lower the bar faster. thats all.

rmccray
10-14-2008, 04:55 PM
You guys are seriously over thinking this. Just freaking drop that bar faster

WORD!!!!

BigTallOx
10-14-2008, 05:36 PM
Its really not that hard dude. You are scared of the weight is all. Man up and release that bar. I don't think setting the pins high is going to really help because as soon as you take them away you're right back to square one.


That's a good point.



I wouldn't lie to you guys. There are no tricks, no special training techniques, lower the bar faster. thats all.

OK. I'll just force myself to get over it and let the bar come down faster.

bencher8
10-14-2008, 08:42 PM
well, I think there is some training advice that may help you. When I have worked with lifters who had trouble lowering weight faster there is a couple things that I have found that helped...

1. Use a moderate weight. The weight that you start to notice that you are slowing down is a good weight to start at as that shows that it is starting to be heavy to you.

2. Start with a high board. If you have really long arms you might want to start with a 6 brd, but 5 brd is usually enough. Satrt with the moderate weight on the 5 brd and focus on letting the bar drop as fast as possible. You can work your way down the brds like that, but only lower the brd when you have achieved a level of speed that is acceptable...then dont lower the brd again till you can match that speed.

3. ....and this is the hardest part. It is technique related and it will be the hardest to describe. the technique you have to use is like this:
* Take the bar out really tight
* Let your arms go slightly loose, but enough tension to maintain control over the bar
* When you loosen the arms, keep your back tight. This will allow you to have the base to reverse the weight.

Think to yourself that you have to bounce the weight off the brds. Like Travis said...part of it is mental. It takes some nads to drop that weight and release the bar, but this will train you to be very explosive. This is also considering that you are training unequipped...I would never do this in equipment.

Hoep this long ass post helped some lol

Big o Boy
10-14-2008, 09:59 PM
when I do overload work, shirted or pin presses, it helps remind me how light my raw max is. That usually helps me bring the bar down pretty quickly... but I've also strained my shoulder doing speed pressing trying to go as fast as possible. All about maintainin' control.

Kenny Croxdale
10-19-2008, 11:04 AM
I find that when I'm benching near my max, I can't help but lower the weight super slow. This is raw. My arms are really long, so I know it's going to take me longer to lower the bar than other shorter arm guys, but it's even slower than that. It seems that no matter how hard I try to lower it faster, I just can't for some reason. I think its affecting my max bench because I'm using all my energy on the decent. Maybe it's part mental, but I'm thinking it probably points to a weakness that I need to work on strengthening, but I'm not really sure what it is. Should I be doing negatives? Any advice would be appreciated.

You WANT to lower the weight slowly in raw bench press, squat etc.

The faster you lower the bar, the more force you have to deal with...Force = Mass X Acceleration.

Research shows (Bench Press More Now/McLaughlin) that the force in lowering a bar too quickly in the bench press can magnify the load beyond the true weight of what is on the bar.

McLaughlin's research was on raw bench pressing. Supershirts change the dynamics of the eccentric movement. That is another topic.

As per McLaughlin, novice lifters who lowered the bar too quickly, increased the force of the bar 49%. Thus, in bench pressing 300 lbs that would mean having to deal with 447lbs of force once the bar hits you chest.

So, one of the important factors of lifting is the eccentric speed of the bar (how fast you lower it). This holds true for the squat and other movements as well.

In regard to you "using all your energy" on an eccentric. That is doubtful.

Research shows that one's eccentric strength is up to 50% greater than one's concentric strength. Thus, if you were attempting a 300 lb bench press (lower and pushing the weight up), that would mean your eccentric strength could be close to 450 lbs.

That would mean that your 300 lb bench press would be 67% of you 450 eccentric max. (300 divided by 450).

How much effort/energy would it take you to push 200 lbs up 1 time, if you could bench press 300 lbs. 200 lbs would be 67% of 300 lbs.

Also, research indicates that very little energy is used in eccentrics.

With that said, some eccentric ONLY training is beneficial for increasing how much weight you push up.

An excellent research article on eccentrics is Warren Frost "Eccentric movements..." You can google it.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
10-19-2008, 11:16 AM
I've never been a fan of negatives. I think you probably need more back work. H-rolls & heavy rows.

Eccentrics are a very effective training tool for increasing one's concentric strength for powerlifting or any other sport.

As I noted in another post, Warren Frost "Eccentric movement..." research article provides some enlightening information. You can google it.

Also, as Jay Schroeder (strength coach) stated, "You have to be able to absorb force before you can repel it." Something Schroeder learned from training with the Soviets.

Another excellent article the role of eccentric strength in "eccentric-concentric movement is David Kerin's research on jumpers. The application of Kerin's data applies to the powerlifts.

The greater a jumper's eccentric strength, the higher they could jump...more concentric force they were able to produce.

Ten percent of the Soviets training program revolved around the use of eccentric only movement. (Secrets of the Soviet Sports/Dr Michael Yessis).

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
10-20-2008, 11:14 AM
Negatives are a big no no IMO

Like anything, negatives (eccentrics) can be a very effective when used correctly and can dampen concentric strength and power when implemented incorrectly. The key is knowing how to write eccentrics into your program.

Warren Frost "Eccentric movements..." examines the "Benefits of eccentric" and the "Negatives of eccentric exercise."

Chris Thibaudeau's "Eccentric-Base Training" at t-mag provides some great information on eccentric training. Thibaudea has some other articles on eccentric training, as well.

Dr Tom McLaughlin's Bench Press More Now is another excellent on how fast to lower the bar in the bench press (eccentric bar speed). McLaughlin's research is based on "raw" bench pressers, which is what the original poster said he was.

McLaughlin's research shows that lowering the bar too fast is determental to the "raw" bench press. The same holds true for a "raw" squat.

Kenny Croxdale