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speed_expert
10-18-2008, 07:03 PM
Title says it all, ask me any question about training for speed, agility, power, strength, endurance, conditioning, or any questions that are related to these things.

betog22
10-18-2008, 07:11 PM
ok here goes...im goin to start doin HITT, help me out how, i just know that its on/off lol. im 210 lbs and i wanna get faster...how do i train for that? i know that im gonna bust my @$$ in the gym but is there anythin i can do outside like in the off days? I suck at long distance too just thought you should know i have no endurance.

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 07:18 PM
ok here goes...im goin to start doin HITT, help me out how, i just know that its on/off lol. im 210 lbs and i wanna get faster...how do i train for that? i know that im gonna bust my @$$ in the gym but is there anythin i can do outside like in the off days? I suck at long distance too just thought you should know i have no endurance.

whats your current weekly lifting routine and schedule?

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 07:22 PM
ok here goes...im goin to start doin HITT, help me out how, i just know that its on/off lol. im 210 lbs and i wanna get faster...how do i train for that? i know that im gonna bust my @$$ in the gym but is there anythin i can do outside like in the off days? I suck at long distance too just thought you should know i have no endurance.

Your objective here is to get faster, therefore with no previous speed training you will make good gains by following exactly what I tell you.

Speed work is defined as an all out effort, meaning 100% effort into a run that lasts 2-8 seconds for acceleration/speed development. The critical thing that most people forget or rather dont know...is that you must have maximum recovery inbetween EACH run you do. This allows maximum intensity and the ability to regenrate ADP levels to where they need to be for speed development.

So a good example of a ideal speed workout would be...

6x60m

Simple as that, 6 runs of 60m at full speed, with about 5 minutes rest inbetween each run. A general rule of thumb is one minute rest per 10m sprinted.

betog22
10-18-2008, 07:23 PM
so yea, im doin my research and there are 2 workouts that i like but dont know which one to choose for workin out to lose fat...i bought the fat loss stack and lookin for a workout. I like the complex workout i saw:
Complex A
Bent-Over Row
Hang Clean
Front Squat, Push Press hybrid
Back Squat
GM

Complex B
RDL
Hang Clean, Squat and Press hybrid
Lunge

Complex C
Dead Lift
RDL
Bent-Over Row
Clean
Front Squat
Push Press
Back Squat
GM

Complex D
Dead Lift
High Pull (onto toes)
Squat Clean
Military Press
Lunge

Complex E
Jump Squat
Squat
Squat and Hold for 10 seconds
Military Press
Push Press
Squat and Press

Week One
4 sets of 5, 90 sec rest for Complexes

Monday Chest, Back, Calves
Incline BB Press 3x5
Rack Pull or Dead 3x5
Standing Calf Raise 3x8
Complex A
5 min of 20:40 HIIT + 15 min SS

Tuesday Quads, Bis, Abs
Squat 3x5
Standing Alt Bicep Curl 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex B
10 min of 20:10 HIIT + 10 min SS

Wednesday No Resistance Training
Complex C
30 Hills

Thursday Shoulders, Back, Calves
Pull Ups 3x5
Military Press 3x5
Seated Calf Raises 3x8
Complex D
5 min of 15:30 HIIT + 15 min SS

Friday Hamstrings, Tris, Abs
SLDL or RDL 3x5
Close Grip Bench 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex E
10 min of 8:12 HIIT + 10 min SS

Saturday Rest
Sunday Rest


Week Two
5 sets of 5, 70 sec rest for Complexes

Monday Chest, Back, Calves
Incline BB Press 3x5
Rack Pull or Dead 3x5
Standing Calf Raise 3x8
Complex A
10 min of 20:40 HIIT + 10 min SS

Tuesday Quads, Bis, Abs
Squat 3x5
Standing Alt Bicep Curl 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex B
10 min of 20:10 HIIT + 10 min SS

Wednesday No Resistance Training
Complex C
45 Hills

Thursday Shoulders, Back, Calves
Pull Ups 3x5
Military Press 3x5
Seated Calf Raises 3x8
Complex D, 10 min of 15:30 HIIT + 10 min SS

Friday Hamstrings, Tris, Abs
SLDL or RDL 3x5
Close Grip Bench 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex E
10 min of 8:12 HIIT + 10 min SS

Saturday Rest
Sunday Rest

Week Three
5 sets of 6, 60 sec rest for Complexes

Monday Chest, Back, Calves
Incline BB Press 3x5
Rack Pull or Dead 3x5
Standing Calf Raise 3x8
Complex A
10 min of 20:40 HIIT + 10 min SS

Tuesday Quads, Bis, Abs
Squat 3x5
Standing Alt Bicep Curl 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex B
10 min of 20:10 HIIT + 10 min SS

Wednesday No Resistance Training
Complex C
45 Hills

Thursday Shoulders, Back, Calves
Pull Ups 3x5
Military Press 3x5
Seated Calf Raises 3x8
Complex D
10 min of 15:30 HIIT + 10 min SS

Friday Hamstrings, Tris, Abs
SLDL or RDL 3x5
Close Grip Bench 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex E
10 min of 8:12 HIIT + 10 min SS

Saturday Rest
Sunday Rest

Week Four
6 sets of 6, 45 sec rest

Monday Chest, Back, Calves
Incline BB Press 3x5
Rack Pull or Dead 3x5
Standing Calf Raise 3x8
Complex A
5 min of 20:40 HIIT + 15 min SS

Tuesday Quads, Bis, Abs
Squat 3x5
Standing Alt Bicep Curl 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex B
5 min of 20:10 HIIT + 15 min SS

Wednesday No Resistance Training
Complex C
30 SS

Thursday Shoulders, Back, Calves
Pull Ups 3x5
Military Press 3x5
Seated Calf Raises 3x8
Complex D
5 min of 15:30 HIIT + 15 min SS

Friday Hamstrings, Tris, Abs
SLDL or RDL 3x5
Close Grip Bench 3x5 (optional)
Weighted Crunch 3x8
Complex E
5 min of 8:12 HIIT + 5 min SS

Saturday Rest
Sunday Rest
MENS HEALTH ABS DIET WORKOUT:but ive been readin the mens health abs diet and tells me to do almost the same workout routine 3days outta the week with some HiTT as well:
squat, bench press,pulldown, military press,upright row, tri pushdown, leg extension, bicep curl and leg curl. accourdin to mens health that plan will work for 4 weeks and see changes in fat loss. im stuck on both workout philosophies...need serious help


so as you can see im still a lil iffy on what to work out with...any advise on which one to do....my goal is to lose fat by the way

betog22
10-18-2008, 07:26 PM
that seems like a good speed workout...will there by any changes in distance or recovery time? or just cahnge in workout in general?

40 Nunc
10-18-2008, 07:32 PM
Okay, I'll bite... what makes you an expert? What are your qualifications?

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 07:57 PM
that seems like a good speed workout...will there by any changes in distance or recovery time? or just cahnge in workout in general?

Those workouts look pretty good however I prefer if you follow my weekly template for now.

Monday: Tempo (1200m) + ab circuit (700-800 reps total)
Tuesday: Upper body focused lifting
Wednesday: Short hills + short speed (accel.) + lower body focused lifting
Thursday: tempo (1000m) + ab circuit (500 reps total)
Friday: Medium hills + Max Velocity + lower body/back lifting
Saturday: rest
Sunday: Accel. + max velocity + full body lifting

Now to clear up confusions...

Tempo is running at 70% speed on grass, over any distance, generally 100m is ideal. The distance you see in brackets is the total amount of meters you should have run, so you can do the 1200m in 12x100m at 70% speed. Or do 6x200m or whatever way you want to break it up. The ab circuit is broken up into these runs and done inbetween, break the reps up with simple exercises and with no recovery inbetween different exercises.


Accel. means acceleration, so meaning in this workout you will have a focus on acceleration as well, sprinting distances of 10-30m. Max velocity means hitting top speed, so running at 40-60m generally or flying runs, but I wont get into those right now...

So now for the workouts..Ill start from the top

Upper body focused
Bench Press 4x10,10,8,6
Incline DB Press 3x8
Weighted dips 3x10
DB shoulder press (seated) 3x10
Bent over laterals 3x12 + drop set (burnout)
Bent over rows 3x10

Wednesdays running

Quick feet drill
Bounding 3x20m
Power skips 3x15m
3x4 box jumps
6x10m hills
4x10m hills backwards
4x15m on flat grass
6x20m on track

Lower body focused lifting

Squats 4x10,10,8,8
Seated calf raise 3x15
Lunges 3x10m walking with dumbbells
Single leg bench squats 3x10
Single leg press supersetted with GHR 3x8

Ill post the rest, for now read this

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:07 PM
Friday running

3x20m uphill bounding
4x40m uphill sprints
6x60m on track

Friday lifting

Box squats 4x8,6,6,6 (increase weight by 5 pounds for weight used for 6 reps, per week)
Deadlifts 3x10,6,6 + burnout set (increase weight by 10 pounds per week that you use for the burnout set)
Wide grip weighted pull ups 3x10
One arm seated rows 3x12
Bent over rows 3x10
Lat pulldowns 3x8
DB shrugs 3x15
Bicep curls (fast speed) 3x12

Sunday running

Bounding 2x60m
2x6 single leg box jumps
3x15m on track
3x30m on track
5x60m on track
2x80m on track
6x depth jumps

Sunday lifting

Bench Press 4x6 (increase weight 5 pounds per week)
Squat 4x6 (increase weight by 5 pounds per week)
Power cleans 6x1
Standing BB shoulder press 3x10
Leg press 3x8 (dynamic, explode on the way up)

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:20 PM
Warm ups

Use this for all the track speed stuff.

Light 10 minute jog on grass
Static stretch, ONLY holding each stretch for 3-4 seconds
Joint rotations
A's drills
straight legs
backward extension run
leg swings
hip rotations/scorpion kicks/trunk twists
Strides (acclerate to 60% speed) 5x40m
leg swings

Cool downs after track

100m jog on grass
Static stretch holding it up to 10 seconds

Cool downs after lifting

Stationary bike 5 minutes light
Static stretch holding stretch up to 45 seconds

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:22 PM
Okay, I'll bite... what makes you an expert? What are your qualifications?

I have a degree in kinesiology and exercise physiology. More of my qualifications that you require to see of me, should be present in my answers, if you want me to explain any single one of the claims I make or exercises I give, please ask.

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:28 PM
Tempo running warm ups

100m jog
static strech hold each major stretch 20 seconds
leg swings
scorpion kicks

Cool downs

50m jog
static stretch-hold 30 seconds

Remember the purpose of tempo is to allow better recovery from intense sessions and develop general fitness, try and use correct sprint form when running.

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:31 PM
Now hows your diet looking?

Supplements, I want you taking a daily multi vitamin + fish oil daily. I also want you to to have a whey protein shake post every single workout, and always get 2 in per day at least. As you begin this training, begin a 5 week cycle of creatine, 10g per day for 1 week and then 5g for the remaining 4 weeks. Then I want you to go off creatine and from there your training will change to compensate the decrease in ATP levels and then 4 weeks later we will change your training once again as you do another cycle of creatine. Make sure you get in 3L of water daily.

betog22
10-18-2008, 08:42 PM
wow those are awesome workouts...i look forward to doin them. i have several concerns/ questions:
1.is there a substitution for box jumps (dont have boxes to jump outisde)
2.the hills on my town arent different in size, will that matter? the one i use isnt that long id say 10-15 roughly. do i still use that hill to do all the hill workout?
3.that superset with the single leg press with GHR...wats GHR?
4.whats a box squat...i have an idea just wanna make sure
5.define A's drill, joint/hip rotations, scorpion kicks

i know this may seem like alot but bare with me...im kind of a newbie to all this...im so excited bout this new routine...thanks for everything

betog22
10-18-2008, 08:44 PM
my diet right now, is the MENS HEALTH ABS DIET...and the supplements are the FAT LOSS STACK from AtLargeNutrition.com....seems pretty good so thats why i bought it

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:49 PM
wow those are awesome workouts...i look forward to doin them. i have several concerns/ questions:
1.is there a substitution for box jumps (dont have boxes to jump outisde)
2.the hills on my town arent different in size, will that matter? the one i use isnt that long id say 10-15 roughly. do i still use that hill to do all the hill workout?
3.that superset with the single leg press with GHR...wats GHR?
4.whats a box squat...i have an idea just wanna make sure
5.define A's drill, joint/hip rotations, scorpion kicks

i know this may seem like alot but bare with me...im kind of a newbie to all this...im so excited bout this new routine...thanks for everything

1. Yes, just jump as high as you can using the same motion of a box jump and use the same number of sets/reps.

2. Sorry I didnt get that, what are all the hills you have available to use? Do you have a stadium of stairs?

3. GHR = glute ham raise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgLY8laPytg

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QugVk20OdKY

5. A's drills are high knees. There's the walking A's, just walking high knees, only use this for the first couple weeks. The other two are skipping high knees and running high knees.

Joint rotations..basically..rotate your arm through your elbow, or rotate your hand so your wrist is rotating. Get the idea? Same thing with shoulders...and ankles, and knees (move knees back and forth)

Hip rotations..just move your hips (with your hands on them) around in a circle.

Scorpion kicks..lie down with arms out to your side, now bring your right leg and kick to the side moving your body below the shoulders but shoulder stay on the ground at all times. Your foot should try and reach the other hand.

Any other questions, please ask.

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:51 PM
my diet right now, is the MENS HEALTH ABS DIET...and the supplements are the FAT LOSS STACK from AtLargeNutrition.com....seems pretty good so thats why i bought it

Im not very familiar with those supplements or your exact diet, do you mind posting it? It would help out.

betog22
10-18-2008, 08:52 PM
2.the hills on my town arent different in size, will that matter? the one i use isnt that long id say 10-15 roughly. do i still use that hill to do all the hill workout?



2. Sorry I didnt get that, what are all the hills you have available to use? Do you have a stadium of stairs?



yea we do have a stadium...

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 08:56 PM
yea we do have a stadium...

Ok so the 10-15m hill is good for the short hill part. But for the medium hills, you need a 40m hill in order to do it, and since you dont seem to have access to that, then a full out stadium stairs sprint from bottom to top is the closest thing that can replace this.

betog22
10-18-2008, 08:57 PM
http://www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=10

if you want to look at the individual supps just browse on the left for items. as far as my diet goes...its http://www.absdiet.com/uof/absdiet/experts.html basicallyits eating more of the powerfoods more often and like 6 meals a day....3 whole and 3 snacks....

betog22
10-18-2008, 08:59 PM
wow those box squats are serious business...we dont have that in our gym...i know, i know were a lil town here what can i say...any subs for that?

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:01 PM
wow those box squats are serious business...we dont have that in our gym...i know, i know were a lil town here what can i say...any subs for that?

There are stop squats... but do you have those small seats which they use for dumbbell shoulder presses? or anything you can stack on top of each other to build a box, that is at parallel (squat depth)

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:05 PM
http://www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=10

if you want to look at the individual supps just browse on the left for items. as far as my diet goes...its http://www.absdiet.com/uof/absdiet/experts.html basicallyits eating more of the powerfoods more often and like 6 meals a day....3 whole and 3 snacks....

Your diet sounds good in servings, but how many calories are you getting in per day? How much do you weigh? How many grams of protein per day?

The supplements look decent. Make sure you take the creatine as I told you though...

betog22
10-18-2008, 09:08 PM
i havent really taken that into account (calorie intake)...i weigh a heavy 210ish...and i plan to take a gram/ per pound of protein...right isnt that common?

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:09 PM
i havent really taken that into account (calorie intake)...i weigh a heavy 210ish...and i plan to take a gram/ per pound of protein...right isnt that common?

Yes 1g protein per pound of body weight is a great rule.

Anyways, any other questions please ask.

betog22
10-18-2008, 09:12 PM
will do thanks for everything, ill make sure to keep ya posted once i start...and reactions...oh one more question...do the days matter of the routine? for ex: start on a monday and have the weekends off? im a new dad and rest/time is kind of an issue. im used to doin a mon wed fri routine but can follow it as much as i can...just wonderin tho

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:18 PM
will do thanks for everything, ill make sure to keep ya posted once i start...and reactions...oh one more question...do the days matter of the routine? for ex: start on a monday and have the weekends off? im a new dad and rest/time is kind of an issue. im used to doin a mon wed fri routine but can follow it as much as i can...just wonderin tho

The sunday workout is very important, so see where you want to go and make your own decision on this.

Now timing of the workouts, always do the track/running stuff first, THEN do the lifting. On wednesday/friday you can do the running right before the lifting, however on sunday do the track stuff around 12 pm maybe or anytime earlier in the day and then lifting later on.

betog22
10-18-2008, 09:22 PM
the reason i ask if i can move the routines day like sundays start on monday and mondays on tues and so on is because i know for a fact this crappy town dont open up on sundays...

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:24 PM
the reason i ask if i can move the routines day like sundays start on monday and mondays on tues and so on is because i know for a fact this crappy town dont open up on sundays...

oh i see, yes that would be fine.

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:25 PM
btw, how old are you?

betog22
10-18-2008, 09:26 PM
what are quick feet drills...im 24 btw...lol

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Moving your feet as quickly as possibly, and slowly moving forward. For about 5m. If you can purpose a agility ladder and use that for a variety of quick feet drills.

Later on I will introduce a great drill known as "fast leg" into your routines.

betog22
10-18-2008, 09:30 PM
ah i see...but what do u want me to do there?

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:35 PM
ah i see...but what do u want me to do there?

Do where?

betog22
10-18-2008, 09:36 PM
lol on the quick feet drills

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 09:39 PM
lol on the quick feet drills

Well do 4 sets of the quick feet drill I told you about, the basic one. Then if you purpose a agility ladder, we'll talk :)

betog22
10-18-2008, 10:41 PM
still having probs wit the scorpion kicks..any alternatives or be more specific on how to do em

speed_expert
10-18-2008, 10:43 PM
still having probs wit the scorpion kicks..any alternatives or be more specific on how to do em

Just forget them for now :) just do some more trunk rotations and you should be fine.

speed_expert
10-20-2008, 06:57 PM
come on guys ask some questions :)

Steve24
10-21-2008, 10:16 AM
I'm trying to get my 1.5mi time as fast as possible: currently I've been running a lot of 5k's and shorter distances (no less than 1.5mi). The speed is where I run into problems. While I can run 3 miles at a 7:20 pace, I am having a hard time going any faster than that. Over the summer I worked on sprints a lot and can usually run the last 100-200 meters at full force but the middle of the run is what kills me. I think I try and go out too fast then die halfway through and then see the light at the end of the tunnel and can pump out the remaining laps fairly quickly. My last timed 1.5mi was 11:20 but I am pretty sure I could run it faster now. If I want under a 10min 1.5mi, what should I focus on?

Oh yeah, and I need to do 81 pushups and 100 curlups (Hands crossed over chest then touch thighs) before this 1.5mi run :eek:

I got around 70 pushups on my last attempt but can only knock out around 60 curlups. My core is very strong because I dead and squat around the 300's so I don't know whats holding me back.

speed_expert
10-21-2008, 02:04 PM
I'm trying to get my 1.5mi time as fast as possible: currently I've been running a lot of 5k's and shorter distances (no less than 1.5mi). The speed is where I run into problems. While I can run 3 miles at a 7:20 pace, I am having a hard time going any faster than that. Over the summer I worked on sprints a lot and can usually run the last 100-200 meters at full force but the middle of the run is what kills me. I think I try and go out too fast then die halfway through and then see the light at the end of the tunnel and can pump out the remaining laps fairly quickly. My last timed 1.5mi was 11:20 but I am pretty sure I could run it faster now. If I want under a 10min 1.5mi, what should I focus on?

Oh yeah, and I need to do 81 pushups and 100 curlups (Hands crossed over chest then touch thighs) before this 1.5mi run :eek:

I got around 70 pushups on my last attempt but can only knock out around 60 curlups. My core is very strong because I dead and squat around the 300's so I don't know whats holding me back.


You require to do work in the 400-800m range. If you have the 100-200m speed and the 5k endurance, this type of endurance should come together easily after some specific pace work.

So this is a example workout of what you'd like to do...

2x600m at medium pace (dont kill yourself on these) - 2 minutes rest
4x400s at PB! pace (full recovery)
1x600m at PB pace
1x800m at PB pace

The above workout would help you build the specific pace endurance, and you'd like to do this workout twice a week.

Another time of the week, this workout will help you.

1x200
1x400
1x600
1x800
1x600
1x400
1x200

All are at a full speed, and this is known as the ladder peaking workout, do this once a week for now and after getting closer to your race, do this workout twice a week.

On another day, I'd also like you to do 4x1200s at a PB pace. That being the workout alone.

Make sure you use a nice easy 15 minute jog for warm ups and about 10 minute cool downs. Use skipping and other general sprint drills to warm up.

As for the push ups, I want you to do 20 push ups when you wake up every morning. Then later in the day, do 3 sets of 10 clapping push ups. So this is your daily routine 6x a week. Then comes the next part where you only want to do it 3x a week (every other day), do push ups all the way to failure, rest just 10 seconds and go to failure again, rest for 10 seconds and go to failure, and once again repeat for a third time. Then I want you to stretch it all out and do 4 sets of bench press (all being 12-15 reps) and then do a 5th heavier set (3-4 rep range) and then take a good break and do a burnout set of bench press supersetted with a burnout set of push ups.

On the other 3 days of the week, after the initial daily routine which you do 6x a week, simply do 3 sets of 20 push ups and increase by 5 push ups everyday you do this and increase by a set every week.

As for the curl ups, do 2 sets of 50 curlups, rest 10 seconds and do as many as you can from there. The 2nd day after, go to failure on this, rest 10 seconds and go to failure again. Repeat 3x. The third routine for this, would be do 5 sets of 40 curl ups, increase by 10 curls ups and one set every week.

Make sure you always stretch after the workouts.

Chubrock
10-21-2008, 02:10 PM
Dude, who are you?

speed_expert
10-21-2008, 02:21 PM
Dude, who are you?

im a track coach and phys.ed teacher.

Chubrock
10-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Do you work for a university, what have you accomplished, who have you worked with, etc etc? Most people give some sort of introduction before setting up shop.

Hazerboy
10-21-2008, 06:27 PM
Track coach for who? what team? What are your best times and some of your athletes best times? what specific degrees do you hold and where do you get them from?

sorry for the prodding, but forums are an easy place to get bad advice. I usually post on the powerlifting forums, and the guys there that I get advice from are all usually pro powerlifters or strongman. If I'm questioning some of their advice, all I have to do is a quick you tube search to see their 900 lb squat or 700 lb bench, so at the very least I know that whatever advice they've given me has worked very, very well for them.

Now, looking through all the advice you've given, it seems pretty sound, but don't be hurt or surprised if we're all a little skeptical at first. Not many people come here saying "I'm an expert! ask me questions!" In fact, usually its the excact opposite - "I'm a complete noob! Help me, experts!" So if you are who you say you are, this is a refreshing attitude!

That being said, what do think about speed work in the off days for a powerlifter? Would it help my lifts? also, what do you think of what this guy is doing for his athletes: http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm

speed_expert
10-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Do you work for a university, what have you accomplished, who have you worked with, etc etc? Most people give some sort of introduction before setting up shop.

No I havent attempted to coach at that level but I plan to in the future. Im not that old (31 years old) to have the coaching experience to try and climb the coaching ranks, however I believe my knowledge learned simply from the best (charlie francis, john smith, clyde hart, steve franno) and from general research I have done for years.

Im a high school sprint coach and a club coach and ive coached athletes mainly at a provincial level and have coached athletes who have competed nationally, and continue to.

I take athletes through several phases of a yearly program.

GPP
SPP1
SPP2
SPP3
PCP
CP

speed_expert
10-21-2008, 08:08 PM
Track coach for who? what team? What are your best times and some of your athletes best times? what specific degrees do you hold and where do you get them from?

sorry for the prodding, but forums are an easy place to get bad advice. I usually post on the powerlifting forums, and the guys there that I get advice from are all usually pro powerlifters or strongman. If I'm questioning some of their advice, all I have to do is a quick you tube search to see their 900 lb squat or 700 lb bench, so at the very least I know that whatever advice they've given me has worked very, very well for them.

Now, looking through all the advice you've given, it seems pretty sound, but don't be hurt or surprised if we're all a little skeptical at first. Not many people come here saying "I'm an expert! ask me questions!" In fact, usually its the excact opposite - "I'm a complete noob! Help me, experts!" So if you are who you say you are, this is a refreshing attitude!

That being said, what do think about speed work in the off days for a powerlifter? Would it help my lifts? also, what do you think of what this guy is doing for his athletes: http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm

Ya I understand you're concerns, I assure you my advice is very effective for sprint training and my background knowledge lets me answer questions related to endurance training as well.

Read through this better for a couple of your questions and I have produced 10.6 runners at best and several 11.2-11.6 runners for younger age groups (pre high school, freshman). Same ratio of times for the 200, with 21.5 being the best and 22.9-23.8.

You get advice from assisted 700 benchers?

Speed work on off days, well what did you do the day before or will do the next day? Doing squats and then doing sprints the day letter is suicide for your legs, or doing squats the day after doing sprints. However provided adequete recovery is given between heavy leg work and sprints, then yes I believe sprints/plyometrics will help you out.

Once a week should be enough, however if you're doing a GPP for powerlifting, doing running 2-3x a week is most effective. With this I want to get into sled pulls, these are great to do once a week and more during GPP, as they develop special strength, and combined with about 30 touches of plyos, they can be used for a new edge to better enhance your lifts.

Once you're comfortable with doing the once per week, you can look for room for twice a week of speed and plyos. Do the plyos first and do 20-30 touches and then proceed to speed and keep the distance 60m and under (generally 30-40m) and allow full recovery inbetween the runs.

Yes that defranco routine I have seen before, its very good and effective, not something new to me.

Chubrock
10-21-2008, 08:11 PM
You get advice from assisted 700 benchers?



We have several 700lbs benchers and 900lbs squatters on this board.

markdk86
10-21-2008, 08:45 PM
Here is my question:

Can you PROVE you have these degrees? No offense. Evidence is nice.

WillNoble
10-21-2008, 09:18 PM
and its nice that you MAY have the degrees, however Ive seen some people with as much common sense as a flaming bag of dog s**t who have their degrees in Kinesiology or Biomechanics and a CSCS.


self important anon is self important

Reko
10-21-2008, 09:28 PM
You get advice from assisted 700 benchers?



No, we get advice from 700 benchers. The spotters stay out1of it.

Edit, actually I think Vin is up to 800 if I am not mistaken... so make that 800 benchers. (no worries Travis, 700 on the platform, #1 in our hearts)

Ben Moore
10-21-2008, 09:32 PM
No, we get advice from 700 benchers. The spotters stay out of it.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

KingJustin
10-21-2008, 09:34 PM
I didn't read a whole lot of this thread, but what I did read was mostly good and it seems like the OP is pretty knowledgeable.

But the thing is that there's a lot of people on this board that are probably just as much, if not more, knowledgeable in regards to application in the weight room/on the track. Most of these people are not anonymous at all about who they are, and they still don't come here and make their first post, "Ask me questions and I will give the best possible answers." It's just overly cocky.

Ben Moore
10-21-2008, 09:36 PM
I didn't read a whole lot of this thread, but what I did read was mostly good and it seems like the OP is pretty knowledgeable.

But the thing is that there's a lot of people on this board that are probably just as much, if not more, knowledgeable in regards to application in the weight room/on the track. Most of these people are not anonymous at all about who they are, and they still don't come here and make their first post, "Ask me questions and I will give the best possible answers." It's just overly cocky.

Seriously! Just stop all the drama and tell us who you are and where to see your work.

WillNoble
10-21-2008, 09:36 PM
I didn't read a whole lot of this thread, but what I did read was mostly good and it seems like the OP is pretty knowledgeable.

But the thing is that there's a lot of people on this board that are probably just as much, if not more, knowledgeable in regards to application in the weight room/on the track. Most of these people are not anonymous at all about who they are, and they still don't come here and make their first post, "Ask me questions and I will give the best possible answers." It's just overly cocky.



ding ding ding....we have a winner Johnny!

speed_expert
10-22-2008, 05:47 AM
wow too many posts to individually reply to, I got a request, im not asking you to believe in my religion, however if you're all overly sensitive to what may seem to you as "anonymous help" then I dont need to do anything on here. However I can guarantee you 100% my info. is legit and top notch as top speed trainer charlie francis (I use similar training templates, and similar programs such as s-l / l-s as he does) would agree on everything I say. I have adopted ideas from other speed trainers such as clyde hart and john smith. John smith was the leader of HSI and coached ato boldon, maurice greene, and john drummond and others. Clyde hart coached michael johnson, coached jeremy wariner and currently coaches sanya richards. All among the worlds best ever in their respective events. With micheal johnson being the 400m world record holder and Maurice greene holding the most sprint titles in history.

WillNoble
10-22-2008, 06:32 AM
wow too many posts to individually reply to, I got a request, im not asking you to believe in my religion, however if you're all overly sensitive to what may seem to you as "anonymous help" then I dont need to do anything on here. However I can guarantee you 100% my info. is legit and top notch as top speed trainer charlie francis (I use similar training templates, and similar programs such as s-l / l-s as he does) would agree on everything I say. I have adopted ideas from other speed trainers such as clyde hart and john smith. John smith was the leader of HSI and coached ato boldon, maurice greene, and john drummond and others. Clyde hart coached michael johnson, coached jeremy wariner and currently coaches sanya richards. All among the worlds best ever in their respective events. With micheal johnson being the 400m world record holder and Maurice greene holding the most sprint titles in history.


So based on your logic, since I utilize methods from Louie Simmons, Mel Siff, and Zatsiorsky et al, I am easily on par with them in terms of my capabilities as a coach and a scholar.


thats some wonderfully flawed logic you have there...

markdk86
10-22-2008, 07:01 AM
I don't want to offend you, but you guarantee us?

Okay, I guarantee everyone I am an astrophysicist. .....Really

Chubrock
10-22-2008, 07:19 AM
Here's my one nice post for the day. Nobody is getting on your case because you want to answer questions. Everybody is getting on your case because you set up shop with a Q&A and haven't sufficiently introduced yourself.

Brad08
10-22-2008, 07:26 AM
I have a degree in kinesiology and exercise physiology.....high school track coach....

Whoa! Stand back, everyone! Genius on deck!

speed_expert
10-22-2008, 01:32 PM
It is very hard for me to PHYSICALLY prove to you who I am and even if i did due to my lack of experience (reason being my age) I wouldnt stand out simply once again due to my number of coaching years.

Now if you dont believe in my ideas, why dont you try and disaprove them? I see SOO many responses on different forums when someone asks help for speed training, and they come and respond...

get out there and sprint

My response would be more like..
4x30m/6x60m (2 minute rest between 30s, 5 mins rest between 60s)

Come on guys, common sense

Chubrock
10-22-2008, 01:36 PM
Once again, nobody is discouraging you from answering questions. However, when you set up a "Q&A" you come off as arrogant. You would've been better to say that you've been working with track athletes and that while you're new to the coaching game, you hope to help people with any questions they might have.

40 Nunc
10-22-2008, 01:42 PM
Once again, nobody is discouraging you from answering questions. However, when you set up a "Q&A" you come off as arrogant. You would've been better to say that you've been working with track athletes and that while you're new to the coaching game, you hope to help people with any questions they might have.

Exactly...

No one asked you a question. You started a post saying "I know everything"... You might be wise beyond your years but to tell some that you're wise beyond your years is arrogant

Travis Bell
10-22-2008, 02:14 PM
i think "speed expert" has some very good information here guys so lets not be to hard on him.

to SE though, you do need to be careful not to make people think you think you are the be all and end all of speed training because of a couple of undergraduate degrees. The best indicator of someone's level of expertise is the longevity within the sport and the level of accomplishments of their athletes.

There is good solid info in here though

WillNoble
10-22-2008, 02:15 PM
It is very hard for me to PHYSICALLY prove to you who I am


give us some of your published research, journal articles, or other published writings.

Then give us your name, where & who you have coached.

Only then will the title of expert be conferred


your logic is still flawed greatly

ZenMonkey
10-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Agreed^^......*runs to jump on wagon*

I guarntee the OP that there are far more knowledgable users on this board who we would rather have a Q&A session with. Noble is right too, your logic sucks and has no real utility. And like another poster said, just because you have X degree does not entail that you know what you are doing, much less giving advice on. If you have something to assert, then do it in a created thread in whcih someone has one of the aforementioned goals you spoke of...

No doubt there is some good info and if you are indeed what you proclaim then its nice to have you here, but you have to had expected this type of response. Everyone's BS dectectors are on high when they come here, as it should be.

speed_expert
10-22-2008, 02:39 PM
Too many posts to individually reply to, simply answering questions here does not require years on of experience unless it comes to dealing with injuries and rehab issues.
I guarantee you no one on this forum has my level of speed knowledge as you claim otherwise, I'd like you to prove it.

markdk86
10-22-2008, 02:41 PM
That and all you need to do to get a degree is pass tests. Applying that knowledge effectively is the main factor of success.

Chubrock
10-22-2008, 02:48 PM
I guarantee you no one on this forum has my level of speed knowledge as you claim otherwise, I'd like you to prove it.

Way to not come off as an *******.

Reko
10-22-2008, 02:49 PM
Too many posts to individually reply to, simply answering questions here does not require years on of experience unless it comes to dealing with injuries and rehab issues.
I guarantee you no one on this forum has my level of speed knowledge as you claim otherwise, I'd like you to prove it.

Prove it.

Who have you trained? What have they done while under you?
We still don't even know your name so we can see if you have published anything or have some sort of results from this expert knowledge.

When Travis or Vin gives bench advice, I know its legit because I can youtube their 700 and 800 pound benches. I know where they are coming from and trust their judgment.

You on the other hand, came on and said, go ahead ask me anything I am the expert. We don't have to prove you aren't, you have to prove you are.

ZenMonkey
10-22-2008, 02:51 PM
I'd like you to prove it.

Um.... the burden of this falls on you "Expert"

WillNoble
10-22-2008, 03:00 PM
give us some of your published research, journal articles, or other published writings.

Then give us your name, where & who you have coached.

Only then will the title of expert be conferred


your logic is still flawed greatly

we eagerly await your response

Travis Bell
10-22-2008, 03:05 PM
Too many posts to individually reply to, simply answering questions here does not require years on of experience unless it comes to dealing with injuries and rehab issues.
I guarantee you no one on this forum has my level of speed knowledge as you claim otherwise, I'd like you to prove it.

well you certainly changed my opinion LOL :hello:

I think this type of attitude will kind of seal your fate as far as how well your "expertise" is received around here especially when being disrespectful to pro powerlifters accomplishemnts

have a nice day

Ben Moore
10-22-2008, 03:18 PM
There should be a mandatory class on internet manners before you can log onto any board...

Reko
10-22-2008, 03:23 PM
There should be a mandatory class on internet manners before you can log onto any board...
Brad would fail

markdk86
10-22-2008, 03:26 PM
I would fail too. I'm an internet *******. I enjoy it too much.

Ben Moore
10-22-2008, 03:27 PM
Brad would fail

True, but humor would get you a pass...

40 Nunc
10-22-2008, 03:34 PM
Too many posts to individually reply to, simply answering questions here does not require years on of experience unless it comes to dealing with injuries and rehab issues.
I guarantee you no one on this forum has my level of speed knowledge as you claim otherwise, I'd like you to prove it.

Sorry dude, but the only thing you've proven to me is you're an ass... You hold a very high opinion of yourself.

I'm not trying to improve my speed so I won't be needing access to your great wealth of knowledge. Thanks anyways but if I need that type of information I'll look elsewhere...

KingJustin
10-22-2008, 03:36 PM
Speed_expert:
In all honesty, your advice in this thread is legitimately good. The thing is that even if you really are the most knowledgeable "sprint coach" on this board, the way you are presenting yourself is so arrogant when considering the fact that we have a lot of very accomplished posters on here. In addition, most people on this forum strength train or train for sports, etc, which means they are working in speed stuff in addition to all the other stuff they are doing, and need to place it in light of their overall program. You seem to have a good grasp on everything and all, but I just don't believe that you can without question better advise these people than some of the other posters (who are not anonymous and who have impressive backgrounds) even though your advice likely would indeed be good. Maybe you could try to be a member of the 'community' rather than proclaim yourself king.

But, hell, in the spirit of this thread, I'll go ahead and solicit some advice:
I do a fair amount of Olympic lifting and plyos and such and I've become a relatively fast sprinter (haven't started training consistently enough to time myself) just due to my strength/explosiveness and maybe background in distance running. The issue is that I have also been getting injured pretty damn easily. In the last 4 years, I've pulled my quad, hamstring twice (L&R) and groin twice (L&R). 3 of those injuries (hamstring and both groin pulls) were in the last 4 months. Injuries have severely slowed me down (npi). All this came from sprinting.

My general warm-up before sprints involves some jogging, some dynamic stretches and some accelerates, but this doesn't seem to be overly effective (I might just not be doing enough).

Can you give me a full warm-up routine that I need to make myself follow every time before I run sprints? Any other general advice?

Brad08
10-22-2008, 03:39 PM
yeah, wtf Benjamin??

Also, just FYI for those of you who don't know, I'm an expert on anything and everything related to strength and power.

You morons have any questions for me, the expert?

Brad08
10-22-2008, 03:45 PM
Well Go Ahead You F'ing Idiots.

Ask Me A Strength Or Power Question.

WillNoble
10-22-2008, 03:47 PM
Well Go Ahead You F'ing Idiots.

Ask Me A Strength Or Power Question.

O'DOYLE RULES

Brad08
10-22-2008, 03:50 PM
There are simply too many posts here to answer, but I can say this: I hold two degrees of the Bacalaureate fashion, and also attended high school.

Ben Moore
10-22-2008, 04:22 PM
There are simply too many posts here to answer, but I can say this: I hold two degrees of the Bacalaureate fashion, and also attended high school.

LMFAO!!! - Were you in honors classes in high school?

Itsnotaboutme
10-22-2008, 05:04 PM
Well Go Ahead You F'ing Idiots.

Ask Me A Strength Or Power Question.


Can you please define power for me?

KarstenDD
10-22-2008, 05:11 PM
Can you please define power for me?

qRuNxHqwazs

ZenMonkey
10-22-2008, 06:52 PM
I love WBB

WillNoble
10-22-2008, 07:17 PM
its /WBB/

ZenMonkey
10-22-2008, 07:25 PM
I'm convinced 1-0-7 BB is actually an insane asylum. You guys is crazy!

speed_expert
10-22-2008, 07:41 PM
Speed_expert:
In all honesty, your advice in this thread is legitimately good. The thing is that even if you really are the most knowledgeable "sprint coach" on this board, the way you are presenting yourself is so arrogant when considering the fact that we have a lot of very accomplished posters on here. In addition, most people on this forum strength train or train for sports, etc, which means they are working in speed stuff in addition to all the other stuff they are doing, and need to place it in light of their overall program. You seem to have a good grasp on everything and all, but I just don't believe that you can without question better advise these people than some of the other posters (who are not anonymous and who have impressive backgrounds) even though your advice likely would indeed be good. Maybe you could try to be a member of the 'community' rather than proclaim yourself king.

But, hell, in the spirit of this thread, I'll go ahead and solicit some advice:
I do a fair amount of Olympic lifting and plyos and such and I've become a relatively fast sprinter (haven't started training consistently enough to time myself) just due to my strength/explosiveness and maybe background in distance running. The issue is that I have also been getting injured pretty damn easily. In the last 4 years, I've pulled my quad, hamstring twice (L&R) and groin twice (L&R). 3 of those injuries (hamstring and both groin pulls) were in the last 4 months. Injuries have severely slowed me down (npi). All this came from sprinting.

My general warm-up before sprints involves some jogging, some dynamic stretches and some accelerates, but this doesn't seem to be overly effective (I might just not be doing enough).

Can you give me a full warm-up routine that I need to make myself follow every time before I run sprints? Any other general advice?


Hows your flexibility level? Are you stretching post workouts? and daily?


For the warm up...7-8 minute light jog on grass. Shoulder swing with a skipping motion, go through about 5-6 sets over 30m. Then do a STATIC stretch, however only holding each stretch about 3-4 seconds.
Then do..

A skip / 5 sets over 20m
A run / 5 sets over 20m
B skip / 3 sets over 20m (this drill emphasis triple extension)
Karoake / 3 sets over 20m
Straight leg / 2 sets over 40m
backward extension run / 2 sets over 60m

Leg swings (4-5 sets both straight and laterals)
Trunk twists (30 seconds x2)
Hip rotations (10 seconds each direction x2)

Fast leg drill...alternating over 20m x2 / same leg over 20m x2
Quick feet (agility ladder) run through x2

run offs 6x60m-start off at 40% speed at the first run and increase speed to about 85-90% on the 6th run. After each run do scorpion kicks both on your back and on your stomach one set after each run. 20 seconds.

Sensei
10-22-2008, 07:56 PM
...not to be a knitpicker, but it's "carioca"

WillNoble
10-22-2008, 07:59 PM
give us some of your published research, journal articles, or other published writings.

Then give us your name, where & who you have coached.

Only then will the title of expert be conferred


your logic is still flawed greatly

we're still waiting

Travis Bell
10-22-2008, 08:19 PM
...not to be a knitpicker, but it's "carioca"

LOL this one made me laugh. Good call

Steve24
10-22-2008, 08:40 PM
As someone who no one knows on this board, but reads enough to knows who's who, I'm glad speed came on here and is giving advice. Sure some people are not going to like how he just jumped right on and started handing out advice without showing what he has done but hey his advice seems legit and he has not run away from all this criticism just yet. He is a high school teacher essentially so his first instinct is to teach people and he is trying to do just that. Speed_Expert: Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you updated on how everything is going.

Edit: Flame suit on...

Sensei
10-22-2008, 09:27 PM
LOL this one made me laugh. Good call
Thanks Travis.

I guess if you've been coaching for a while, you'd know the difference between singing and a footwork drill... ;)

betog22
10-26-2008, 09:31 PM
Monday: Tempo (1200m) + ab circuit (700-800 reps total)
Tuesday: Upper body focused lifting
Wednesday: Short hills + short speed (accel.) + lower body focused lifting
Thursday: tempo (1000m) + ab circuit (500 reps total)
Friday: Medium hills + Max Velocity + lower body/back lifting
Saturday: rest
Sunday: Accel. + max velocity + full body lifting





im a lil confused on the wed workout more like how many sets and how long the distance...also on fridays...and especially sundays...please help me out on this one...thanks

Mr. MAXX
11-02-2008, 07:09 AM
Sorry, guys, but "speed expert" is a high school kid.......I recognize his posts and mannerisms from bodybuilding.com forums where he masqueraded as a "coach" and "expert" and also became very defensive when people called him out on his credentials. This is why you cannot get any straight answers from him. While he his knowledgeable for his age, most of his stuff is cut and paste. And when you blow up his identity, he will just create a new one and hide behind it until someone figures it out. Sorry to ruin your party "farzmak."

WillNoble
11-02-2008, 07:26 AM
Sorry, guys, but "speed expert" is a high school kid.......I recognize his posts and mannerisms from bodybuilding.com forums where he masqueraded as a "coach" and "expert" and also became very defensive when people called him out on his credentials. This is why you cannot get any straight answers from him. While he his knowledgeable for his age, most of his stuff is cut and paste. And when you blow up his identity, he will just create a new one and hide behind it until someone figures it out. Sorry to ruin your party "farzmak."

Thank you...


...Or are you his new identity???


queue twilight zone music

Mr. MAXX
11-02-2008, 08:49 AM
Thank you...


...Or are you his new identity???


queue twilight zone music

HAHA...well, I am at least not afraid to post my experience:

Bill Vasko Bio

I am currently the head softball coach at Wheeling Jesuit University in Wheeling, WV. I have been an assistant baseball coach, football coach, and strength training coordinator at the Division III college level. I have also been an athletic director, Health/PE teacher, and softball coach at the high school level. In the summer of 2006, I started MAXX Training, my own personal training business that focuses on fitness training, sport-specific skill training, and strength training.


EDUCATION
* The Ohio State University - 1994 Bachelor's of Science in Education, Major: Health, PE, Recreation. Minor: Coaching, Sports Administration

* Muskingum College - 2002 Master of Arts in Secondary Education


COACHING & TRAINING EXPERIENCE
* Wheeling Jesuit University, Wheeling, WV. NCAA Division II. (2008-Present) Head Softball Coach.


* Buckeye Trail High School, Lore City, Ohio. (2002-2008). Athletic Director, Instructor of Health, Anatomy & Physiology, and Strength Training classes, Co-Head Softball Coach.


* Muskingum College Baseball, New Concord, Ohio. NCAA Division III. 4 seasons (Spring 1999-2002). Assistant Coach, Strength Coach.


* Denison University Football, Granville, Ohio. NCAA Division III. 1 season (Fall 1999). Wide Receivers Coach.


* Otterbein College Football, Columbus, Ohio. NCAA Division III. 1 season (Fall 1998). Running Backs Coach.


* Body, Mind, Wellness Training - Techneglas Corporation. Strength and exercise specialist. 1 year (1998).


* Kenyon College, Gambier, Ohio. NCAA Division III. 3 years (1995-1998)
Football - Coached running backs. Assisted with strength training.
Baseball - Assistant Varsity Coach, Head Junior Varsity Coach, Head Strength Coach.


* Ohio Wesleyan University, Delaware, Ohio. NCAA Division III. 1 year (1994-5)
Assistant Football Coach. Coached the outside linebackers. Assisted with strength training.


* Upper Arlington High School, Ohio. Division I. 1 year (1993-4)
Assistant Varsity Football Coach and Assistant Strength Coach. Coached the outside linebackers and defensive ends.


* Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio. NCAA Division IA. 1 year (1992-3)
Undergraduate Assistant Coach. Assisted with linebackers.

WillNoble
11-02-2008, 09:56 AM
Bravo...


Thank you sir

ZenMonkey
11-05-2008, 04:15 PM
damn.... speed expert was called out!

WillNoble
11-05-2008, 04:20 PM
and has yet to post again...


Amazing eh?

ZenMonkey
11-05-2008, 04:22 PM
Did you notice he never said where he worked either? What a croc.

WillNoble
11-05-2008, 04:32 PM
Did you notice he never said where he worked either? What a croc.

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/unsuccessful_troll.jpg

Brad08
11-05-2008, 07:59 PM
Lmao

AJ_H
11-22-2008, 02:57 PM
yeah, wtf Benjamin??

Also, just FYI for those of you who don't know, I'm an expert on anything and everything related to strength and power.

You morons have any questions for me, the expert?


Well Go Ahead You F'ing Idiots.

Ask Me A Strength Or Power Question.


There are simply too many posts here to answer, but I can say this: I hold two degrees of the Bacalaureate fashion, and also attended high school.

Literally ROFL

Brendonia12
06-13-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm a highschool athlete. I'm on Rippetoes starting strength, (don't follow it THAT strictly, but I try to). I was wondering whether or not it would be beneficial to start using bands for squats and bench. I know that some powerlifters use bands, and they get really good results. If I were to use them, how often should I? I lift two-three times a week. Would I have to adjust my workout or anything?

slashkills
06-14-2009, 05:22 PM
Yes bands will help you. I would use them for maybe 1-2 weeks on and 1-2 weeks off.

Sensei
06-15-2009, 12:16 AM
I think there are a lot of high school athletes who could benefit from the prudent use of bands w. squats and bench, but for most it's misplaced effort.

Travis Bell
06-15-2009, 03:49 AM
So true. Most just have no idea how to set them up, what reps to do them with etc

Sensei
06-15-2009, 05:17 AM
Most high school kids, even if they've read all the articles and seen all the videos and know the set-up/sets-reps, just haven't spent the time under the bar to warrant needing bands and chains for their training.

With a competent coach, I think even beginners can use bands for a lot of things, but without one I think they'd be better off just adding weight to the bar. The last thing in the world I'd want to see as a strength coach is some doofus slingshooting his ass into the weightroom floor as he steps out of the rack...

Goodwinm
06-15-2009, 07:20 AM
I still have never used any band work for squatting, benching or anything and I am still making solid gains (for now)
The only worry I have is of the band snapping though. Any good respectable places to get them from if I ever do decide to have a setup with them?

slashkills
06-15-2009, 12:46 PM
elitefts.com has a ton of bands. I own the jump stretch bands.

Reko
06-15-2009, 04:38 PM
If by snapping you mean breaking this isn't a major concern. As long as you keep the bands in good condition (aka don't let them dry out and dont wrap them around sharp objects) they will last you quite a while.

slashkills
06-15-2009, 05:03 PM
I think there are a lot of high school athletes who could benefit from the prudent use of bands w. squats and bench, but for most it's misplaced effort.

could you(or anyone else) please go into more detail on this

Sensei
06-16-2009, 01:45 PM
think there are a lot of high school athletes who could benefit from the prudent use of bands w. squats and bench, but for most it's misplaced effort.
could you(or anyone else) please go into more detail on this
IMHO, bands are misplaced effort for people who are weak and new to lifting (which is most HSers). They would be better off putting their time and energy into just adding straight weight to the bar or reps to their sets.

A beginner could probably use bands once in a while as a tool to help their technique, but the key there is "once in a while", not once a week.

Generally speaking, in the weightroom, in my opinion (and I'm talking about WS now, because I personally haven't see a lot of people putting much band work into non-WS-like templates):

Beginner's don't need dynamic effort work. It's like doing balls-to-the-wall sprints with sedentary people who are weak and have horrible running mechanics - short term it may get some results, but long-term they're going to need that strength and improve their mechanics.

A beginner's 60%+bands is NOT the same thing as an advanced lifter's 60%+bands. I don't feel like writing a lot right now, but look up "muscle strength deficit" if you don't get what I'm saying.

Travis Bell
06-16-2009, 03:13 PM
I would disagree, respectfully, on the issue of dynamic work. Ascessory work just needs to be tailored appropriatly to make sure the muscles are grown like they need to be.

Today's highschool football isn't what it was 10 years ago. These kids have been in the weight room since 7th grade more times than not. If they begin developing speed (under the right guidence) it has exponential benefits on the field.

Now, dynamic effort work CAN be done without bands and when I'm initially getting kids into DE work, I do not use bands, we work those in later and normally only if they are 300+ squatters.

Highschool athletes absolutely need that speed and explosion though. It's a necessity if they want to be successful on the field, especially for linebackers, receivers, TB's, CB's etc.

Even linemen though. Reviewing tape from last year, we decided our line was just too slow. Slow off the snap, slow to develop their push and too slow to catch guys who might be getting through the line itself. DE work really helped develop explosiveness in their hips and hams so they can utilize the strength that they already had. They are continually getting much faster and more explosive and staying injury free.

Now, if someone is going to include DE work, like I said above, they must structure their ascessory work to fit appropriatly as well as their ME work. Ascessory work like Zercher squats, free squats, ultra wide stiff legged deads, GM's, band GM's etc. They need to build up their posterior chain like Sensei said.

You can do both at the same time though. It takes a good coach, one who knows the system in and out, but when done right, it puts you light years ahead of the others.

Sensei
06-16-2009, 06:24 PM
I agree w. everything you said Travis. I wasn't meaning to speak in absolutes.

With a good coach, there are A LOT more options. Like I said, with a good coach, even beginners can use bands to their benefit.

If you are working with kids who have quality time/experience in the weight room and have developed a good base, then you have even more options. Around here, those are still the exception, but I understand that varies greatly from school to school and by state/conference/area.

But, if you have a team of players that can't squat 225, let alone 300, with good form, then they are weak and that needs to be addressed first. Most beginners are weak at the bottom of the hole because they haven't learned to build tension in that range of motion - doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from band work or dynamic effort work, but that it might not be the most effective way of building tension in (and explosion from) the hole for novices. Now, again, that doesn't mean I'm anti-bands for beginners - I LOVE THEM and there's no quicker way to teach a beginner to be solid on set-up than to put a band on the bar. But, there are some inherent risks and I don't think bands are a necessity for a lot of high school weight rooms.

When I said beginners don't need dynamic effort work, I didn't really mean that nothing would be done dynamically, although I can see it being read that way.

Mike G
06-16-2009, 06:48 PM
What do you guys think about the idea of bands messing up the strength curve of raw lifters? Along the lines of Sensei's point about being weak in the hole. I've read this a few times and it makes sense, wondering what others thoughts are.

Travis, I think the key to your entire post was a good coach. The overwhelming majority of "strength coaches" that I have been around don't know how to squat correctly, let alone use bands effectively. A really good coach can do so many other things that are beneficial, but it's rare (in my experience) to find those coaches.

Travis Bell
06-16-2009, 10:26 PM
If you are working with kids who have quality time/experience in the weight room and have developed a good base, then you have even more options. Around here, those are still the exception, but I understand that varies greatly from school to school and by state/conference/area.

Very valid point. The guy I replaced had no idea what he was doing. Their form was so stinkin bad, I have juniors who have herniated disks in their back, seniors from last year who jacked their knees and a list of other injuries. They were getting injured before even hitting the field! I was amazed it never occured to anyone that if you're getting injured in the weight room, that'd pretty much defeat the purpose of even lifting.

If he had thrown bands in there, it'd have been game over for sure.


But, if you have a team of players that can't squat 225, let alone 300, with good form, then they are weak and that needs to be addressed first. Most beginners are weak at the bottom of the hole because they haven't learned to build tension in that range of motion - doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit from band work or dynamic effort work, but that it might not be the most effective way of building tension in (and explosion from) the hole for novices. Now, again, that doesn't mean I'm anti-bands for beginners - I LOVE THEM and there's no quicker way to teach a beginner to be solid on set-up than to put a band on the bar. But, there are some inherent risks and I don't think bands are a necessity for a lot of high school weight rooms.

I would agree with this as well. Form does need to be No.1 priority.

90% of my players right now are used to squatting off a above parallel box which again, I found useless. So what I did was set the saftey pins at a height to where they'd just about be hitting Oly squats, made them squat down, pause on the pins and squat it back up. It took about 3 weeks, but their form really came around in a hurry after that.

One kid's form was particularly off. I almost thought he must have some form of scoliosis or something the way his hips would shift and his back on the way down, so what I had him do was hold DB's over his head and squat onto a parallel box. For whatever reason, his form immediatly was perfect! LOL I still am not quite sure why, but I think it's just that his hips and hams are so weak he can't be stable.

Point is, had I thrown bands in on the first day, he'd have been in a bad spot for sure.

Timing is key. Several of the players were still in the mid 300's when I had them squatting butt to heels so they are now using bands.

On the topic of strength coaches in general, it is so very true that the majority of them are ignorant. It's not their fault per se though. It's the colleges and universities that they go to. They aren't even taught in the first place how to train someone or how to make a program sport specific, how to make a program progressive so that players peak at the right times. These guys pay thousands and thousands of dollars for a degree that taught them nothing except some anatomy and biomechanics.

This is why I dropped my exercise science degree and just graduated with a bachelors in psychology. I knew in a very short period of time it'd be better for me to focus on Louie and his training system because it would take me farther and make me more successful as a coach than anything else could.

Unfortunately very few strength coaches out there are privy to the experiences that I have been blessed with.

Travis Bell
06-16-2009, 10:28 PM
What do you guys think about the idea of bands messing up the strength curve of raw lifters? Along the lines of Sensei's point about being weak in the hole. I've read this a few times and it makes sense, wondering what others thoughts are.

I think it has to do with balance. Raw lifters just need to use a bit less band tension and train to a lower box.

The same thing goes for chain weight. Less chain weight, lower box, more good morning work and lots and lots of ascessory ham and glute work.

AJ_H
06-18-2009, 12:07 PM
I think it has to do with balance. Raw lifters just need to use a bit less band tension and train to a lower box.

The same thing goes for chain weight. Less chain weight, lower box, more good morning work and lots and lots of ascessory ham and glute work.

Travis/Sensei/anyone - could you go into more detail about speed work for beginner lifters and the use of bands. E.g. would it be beneficial to have a DE day for someone who's not squatting in the 300s. Maybe if they're not necesarily squatting in the 300s but have some form of athletic background - swimming, gymnastics lessons, etc. from an early age (general GPP) would it be ok then? If they do do a DE day how would you lay it out for them? If not, then what would you do in replacement? Plyometrics with bodyweight? OR would you just leave out speed work all together and just have them training the core lifts in lowish rep/3-5 rep range and some slow, controlled assistance.

edit: I am wanting to be more explosive and want to incorporate some speed work in but not sure how to do it. And want to be sure about the use of bands etc. I also think a DE day would be a good opportunity to perfect my technique, but again, don't want to 'overdo' anything. Cheers.

Travis Bell
06-18-2009, 02:49 PM
If your best squat is 225, no you should not be using bands. Any bands you put on there will make it impossible to maintain a proper ratio between bar weight and band tension.

Speed work can be done with straight weight. I guess you could use mini bands choked around the bottom of the rack, but I hardly thing it'd be worth the benefit.

Sensei
06-18-2009, 05:01 PM
I agree with Travis.

AJ, what are your goals specifically with regards to weight training?

WillNoble
06-18-2009, 06:29 PM
anyone else notice that the "Speed Expert" never came back...


/cry

Sensei
06-18-2009, 06:33 PM
I think we're all pretty broken up about that.

Travis Bell
06-18-2009, 08:04 PM
haha he was certainly an odd poster for the short time he was here.

slashkills
06-18-2009, 08:09 PM
If your best squat is 225, no you should not be using bands. Any bands you put on there will make it impossible to maintain a proper ratio between bar weight and band tension.

Thats what i dont understand. Why does there have to be a ratio? I think that as long as your lifting at or above your body weight, bands are fine. Wouldnt you still be getting the effects from the bands? you could learn to be explosive with your bodyweight which is what a football player needs.

Does it go back to bad coaching and form or is it really just a strength thing? i think that it may not be best to use it as a main exercise for a workout but could definitely be a great accessory exercise if done right.

Travis Bell
06-18-2009, 08:21 PM
Thats what i dont understand. Why does there have to be a ratio? I think that as long as your lifting at or above your body weight, bands are fine.

If you weigh over 300lbs that'd be fine. Otherwise, no.


Wouldnt you still be getting the effects from the bands? you could learn to be explosive with your bodyweight which is what a football player needs.

Does it go back to bad coaching and form or is it really just a strength thing? i think that it may not be best to use it as a main exercise for a workout but could definitely be a great accessory exercise if done right.

Bands have no weight in the hole! You have to have more bar weight than you do band tension. This is basic band tension training stuff. If you don't have enough bar weight at the bottom, your strength development at the bottom of the squat is going to be incredibly slow.

You have to understand slash, we're talking about how to set up the best program possible. Not a program that accomodates band resistance as a priority. Strength gains are the priority here.

If you took lifter A - used bands from the get go - say a freshmen who squats 185lbs, throw some green bands on there or purple bands on there and he's only going to be able to get around 95lbs bar weight on there.

Take lifter B - same class, same squat max, have them use straight weight for both DE and ME work, this lifter will make much greater progress than lifter A.

Keep in mind, lifter A will still make progress, but it won't be as quick as lifter B.

Once lifters get to a point where their core, hip and glute strength is on a solid foundation, adding in bands will increase the development of strength, not hold them back.

This is because they will be able to put enough bar weight on in addition to the band tension.

The majority of highschool lifters do a couple of things wrong. The biggest is when they box squat, it's a crazy high box and it does them no good. The second biggest is no hip development (which is exacerbated by the above parallel box squats)

Sensei
06-18-2009, 08:29 PM
Slash,
It goes back to your goals. Like I said, w. coaching, every level of athlete can be using bands for certain things. You want to use bands? Fine, do it.

There is a ratio because it ensures a certain baseline of ROM strength.

No, squatting w. the bar + average bands is not going to elicit the same training effect as, for example, 225 + minis.

Relative strength is almost all-important to most athletes - that's true. But what kind of relative strength does an athlete have that can't bench or squat 1.5-2x bodyweight? The answer is "crappy". Without a solid base of strength, adding bands just means adding bands to crappy.

Sure, there are exceptions and different sports will realize different strengths and weaknesses, but if you are a football player, unless you have horrible leverages or injury issues, there's no reason they shouldn't be squatting 2xbdwt.

Sensei
06-18-2009, 08:31 PM
The majority of highschool lifters do a couple of things wrong. The biggest is when they box squat, it's a crazy high box and it does them no good. The second biggest is no hip development (which is exacerbated by the above parallel box squats)I think we can all thank BFS for that.

slashkills
06-18-2009, 08:37 PM
Ok so as a main exercise, no. But how about after your main exercise which is just bar weight. Could you still train with the bands? I think it could help,even if its minimal weight in the hole, the person would still be pushing against their body weight and bands which would do something. If used with DE work thats just bar weight i think it would be effective. But as the focus of a training program no. So something like this

ME squat
squat
squat w/ BW plus bands x what ever
hamstring/posterior chain movement
other accessory work

or

DE squat
DE squat w/ just bar weight
band squats w/ BW
hamstring work
other acc. work

slashkills
06-18-2009, 08:40 PM
I think we can all thank BFS for that.

Definitely, my school follows this program and their low box squats are about 2-3" above parallel. And im average height on my freshman team.

Travis Bell
06-18-2009, 08:52 PM
Ok so as a main exercise, no. But how about after your main exercise which is just bar weight. Could you still train with the bands? I think it could help,even if its minimal weight in the hole

slash, if I thought it would help, I would say so buddy. I haven't suggested that, so that may be a clue :)

Ok, your program is flawed. As a freshmen, you should not be working up to max singles anyways. You should be doing 5 and 3rm (mostly 5's) for several reasons. The first being so that you build the muscle mass you need as a football player. The second so that you get appropriate time under the bar. You simply cannot get stronger when you hit your max on a given exercise after 3 sets, and your body isn't strong enough to repeat said weight over and over again as I have some of the stronger lifters do to get their volume in. (ie. 300x1, 300x1, 300x1)

So if you are doing your 3rm and 5rm on your ME exercises, there is no need to be doing band squats.

I actually have a difficult time believing I'm having a hard time convincing someone not use bands! LOL This is a first for me, usually it's the other way around.

I think you've just seen too many PL videos of guys who are just a good ways ahead of where you are at currently strengthwise. That said, I wish someone had told me the things I'm telling you when I was a freshmen. Instead I was bodybuilding

My question to you would be, why do you feel you need to use bands so badly?

If someone is going to complicate their program, there needs to be a well thought out reason for it. Your thought process needs to be, not "can I squat with bands yet?" but rather "am I becomming a better football player?"

Now I realize with your shoulder injury you won't be able to test that out much at all right now, but the principle still holds true.

The second question is, was your 265lb squat done on a BFS box? or a below parallel box?

Travis Bell
06-18-2009, 08:54 PM
I think we can all thank BFS for that.

Quite true. Highschools across america bought their crap hook line and sinker.

They had a good idea, they just missed a few key things that have a big impact.

Arguing with some people about BFS is like you are attacking their religion or something.

slashkills
06-18-2009, 09:08 PM
slash, if I thought it would help, I would say so buddy. I haven't suggested that, so that may be a clue :)

Ok, your program is flawed. As a freshmen, you should not be working up to max singles anyways. You should be doing 5 and 3rm (mostly 5's) for several reasons. The first being so that you build the muscle mass you need as a football player. The second so that you get appropriate time under the bar. You simply cannot get stronger when you hit your max on a given exercise after 3 sets, and your body isn't strong enough to repeat said weight over and over again as I have some of the stronger lifters do to get their volume in. (ie. 300x1, 300x1, 300x1)

I actually realized this and switched to matt rhodes raw squat program.


So if you are doing your 3rm and 5rm on your ME exercises, there is no need to be doing band squats.

I actually have a difficult time believing I'm having a hard time convincing someone not use bands! LOL This is a first for me, usually it's the other way around.

Im just trying to fully understand everything. Im not necessarily going to do this. Although i have, im not now.


I think you've just seen too many PL videos of guys who are just a good ways ahead of where you are at currently strengthwise. That said, I wish someone had told me the things I'm telling you when I was a freshmen. Instead I was bodybuilding

My question to you would be, why do you feel you need to use bands so badly?

Again, just trying to understand. Thank you for helping me out so much. I appreciate the help. I don't know a ton but im working on it.

If someone is going to complicate their program, there needs to be a well thought out reason for it. Your thought process needs to be, not "can I squat with bands yet?" but rather "am I becomming a better football player?"

My goal is to get better at football. I was thinking they would help so i figured why couldnt you add them in your routine some where. Apparently not though.

Now I realize with your shoulder injury you won't be able to test that out much at all right now, but the principle still holds true.

It turns out its a deep muscle contusion and a very slight tear. Doc said i should be all good in two weeks and could get back into training in three weeks.

The second question is, was your 265lb squat done on a BFS box? or a below parallel box?

Thats just my goal for the year of 2009. I should make that more clear. I have squatted 235lbs to parallel or slightly below at a football meet. Ive got the vid on a friends camera but its not compatible with my computer so i cant upload. You will just have to believe me this time.



comments in red. Thanks for the help. I think i actually may understand what your saying.

Travis Bell
06-18-2009, 09:17 PM
Good stuff slash.

Nah, I believe you on the squat numbers, I would have believed you had you said you squatted 265 to parallel, I was honestly curious because if it was to a BFS box I would have recommended some stuff.

I have a freshmen who squats around 250 right now, butt to heels and with just awesome form. I haven't taught him a thing on form, just moved his stance out a tad and had him push his knees out. You work very hard so I would have believed it.

Had you been able to parallel or below parallel squat 265, I would have said bands weren't so terrible for you as a specific athlete, but if it's right around 235, I'd hold off just a little longer.

That's great news about the shoulder! Now go clock that other kid (kidding)

I realize you're just trying to understand. I always enjoy these discussions. It makes it so much easier to explain what I do and how I do it when I'm asked a specific question. Gives me something to focus on.

Bottom line, keep it simple, bust your tail and get your form right and by the time you're a junior you'll be a wrecking ball on the field.

Also one thing I thought of that might help, keep in mind that how you train bench is different than how you train the squat. Your hams, quads and glutes are the largest muscles in your body so a different attitude has to be taken when tackling them.

Don't get me started on bench training or I'll be up all night long typing haha

Mike G
06-19-2009, 10:08 AM
Bands have no weight in the hole! You have to have more bar weight than you do band tension. This is basic band tension training stuff. If you don't have enough bar weight at the bottom, your strength development at the bottom of the squat is going to be incredibly slow.


This was the point I was trying to make earlier concerning strength curve. Raw guys are usually weak out of the hole, so adding bands would only enhance that problem. Thanks Travis.

AJ_H
06-19-2009, 11:41 AM
grrr...I've had to retype this entire thing because the internet cacked up on me. here goes...

travis - I wasn't referring specifically to the use of bands as such more to just DE work in general. What I meant was, how would a beginner like me lay out a DE day? Would the rep scheme for the actual speed work be less, like 5 x2 as opposed to 9 x 3 or 10 x 2?

sensei - when you ask what I am trying to achieve via lifting, I'm not training for sports as such if thats what you were implying - just lifting for the sake of lifting, even though this is in the sports specific forum, lol, I just thought the topic at hand was related to some questions I have, haha. Well I am hoping to excel at sports such as rowing and rugby, but I don't want to make a program centred specifically on sports. My goals are: to become bigger, stronger, faster and to an extent fitter (cardiovascular wise). I want in a year or so, to weigh ~ 200, and lift 200/300/400 (bench, squat, deadlift). Obviously, I would want to weigh 200 after I've achieved those lifts, otherwise I'd just be benching my bodyweight still.

I wanted to incorporate speed work in my programme but wanted to do it correctly.

My current programme consists of NO speed work whatsoever:

Monday: Deadlift + assistance (core, hams, glutes, upper back)

Wednesday: Bench + assistance (shoulders, tris, upper back)

Friday: Squat + assistance (same as monday only different exercises)

I am considering something like this (ME would consist of working to a 3-5RM and getting 3 sets @ 90% + of that):

Monday: ME lower. I would squat heavy and deadlift heavyish say for 3 weeks out of 4, then on the 4th week, deadlift heavy, and deadlift only. Posterior chain assistance.

Wednesday: lower body plyometrics. Would I do the exercise continuosly, say loadsa reps in one minute, rest, repeat - or would I do something like 9 x 3 so I could do it fast but just a bodyweight plyo...or would some speed work with the bar be acceptable, but no bands, and maybe less volume than they do in westside say 5 x 2?? If so, then I would do some posterior chain assistance here, and make it high volume/low intensity, and the other way round on the ME day. Same for upper.

Friday: ME upper. Shoulders, tris, and upper back assistance

Saturday: Upper body plyometrics (plyo push-ups, kipping pullups).

I have looked into Joe De Franco, but I simply do not have the access to equipment for his stuff. I don't have sleds, bands, chains, a box. Pretty basic barbell and squat rack training, with some dipping, chinning and hyperextensions. That's not to say I won't have in the future though...

slashkills
06-19-2009, 03:29 PM
Why not just switch to a westside template. Its set up to give you what you seem to be looking for here. You could make a cheap box.I made one for about $5. Bands arent needed but are a good tool, especially if your trying to incorporate them into your routine. Anything else Joe does with equipment he also gives exercises as replacements incase you dont have the equipment.

AJ_H
06-19-2009, 03:47 PM
Why not just switch to a westside template. Its set up to give you what you seem to be looking for here. You could make a cheap box.I made one for about $5. Bands arent needed but are a good tool, especially if your trying to incorporate them into your routine. Anything else Joe does with equipment he also gives exercises as replacements incase you dont have the equipment.

slashkills, I would love to switch to a westside template, but perhaps I am not advanced enough as of yet to do so? I don't know... maybe I can just tone down the speed work a bit, and do ME work in a higher rep range (3-5). There is a gym nearby that I may go to in the not to distant future (coliseum gym), and it has some decent stuff. Some boxes, but I think they are all at exactly parallel I'm not sure, some chains/bands, some farmers and an open space outside, so I'd presume they'd have a sled as well but I don't know. I'm thinking of going there its just I've paid for a gym membership at the gym I'm at for ... ahem ... quite a while yet to come hehe. I would be more than willing to build a box myself but I'd hate to go to all that effort for my gym not to use it because of health & safety stuff. I will definitely try and look into those exercise replacements.

slashkills
06-19-2009, 04:19 PM
yes, if you switched to a westside template you should change your to 3rm or 5rm. Thats a mistake i made, using 1rm for all my lifts. On DE days you could alternate between DE and RE work.

Travis Bell
06-19-2009, 08:43 PM
This was the point I was trying to make earlier concerning strength curve. Raw guys are usually weak out of the hole, so adding bands would only enhance that problem. Thanks Travis.

Not true. i can see how you got that, but you misunderstood what I was saying.

The above statement was in reference to why a lifter who is young, inexperienced and not strong enough to maintain the proper ratio.

This is why it's important to have more bar weight than band tension weight.

Bands develop speed. You need that speed out of the hole. It's not all about just having weight on your back. Speed us just as important to the raw lifter as it is the equipped lifter.

There is a balance here, which is what I was referring to earlier. Raw lifters benefit greatly from band usage. They just don't need to use it in as great of tension amount (i.e two and three sets of blue bands, just one works)

Sorry for the confusion

Travis Bell
06-19-2009, 08:53 PM
AJ, good question, and a very normal one.

There is two ways you can go about it

1) You can use the normal percentages for sets of doubles off a below parallel box (without bands, just straight weight) and then for ascessory work do Zercher squats for 5-6 sets of 8reps or leg press (same set and rep scheme) hack squats, front squats etc. You would use that ascessory stuff for your mass building stuff

or

2) You can rotate between 2 weeks of Repeated Effort work and 2 weeks of Dynamic Effort work. For your RE work, you would work up to a semi heavy weight (say around 70-75%) for doubles for about 4 sets, using the same weight. Then on your DE days you'd go back to the regulated 50-60% for speed doubles.

Personally, I'd lean towards the first option and this is what I implement with my athletes, however the latter would certainly work as well. Both fit inside a Westside template.

Mike G
06-20-2009, 05:33 AM
Travis,

I got what you're saying, I forgot to add the experience aspect to my post. It should have said young/inexperienced/weak raw lifters.... Thanks for the explanation though, the balance aspect makes more sense and helps clear up why Wendler recommends against using bands for 531.

AJ_H
06-20-2009, 07:07 AM
thanks a lot travis/slash

Travis Bell
06-20-2009, 09:52 AM
Travis,

I got what you're saying, I forgot to add the experience aspect to my post. It should have said young/inexperienced/weak raw lifters.... Thanks for the explanation though, the balance aspect makes more sense and helps clear up why Wendler recommends against using bands for 531.

The other reason he doesn't recommend bands for 531 is because it's too difficult to be accurate enough for the tension (actual weight) of the bands, so comming up with percentages for your waves gets a little skewed.

wide reciever
06-27-2009, 09:03 PM
heyy quick question

im looking for a routine to build a lot of muscle mass along with some speed both upper body and lower body

if theres a full week program yu kno of, and could inform me thatd be great

im using purple k at the moment if that helps

Travis Bell
06-27-2009, 10:11 PM
Look at the Defranco stickies at the top of the forum.

What's purple K?

joey54
06-28-2009, 08:52 AM
Travis he started a thread asking the same thing, and I gave him the same advice you did.

Travis Bell
06-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Ah ha. I see.

Well then I'll wander over to that thread and get with the program haha

BoAnderson71
06-28-2009, 03:30 PM
Since were talking about squats I have a quick question. I play footbal and I am going into my senior year. I have been lifting for a couple of years. With a wide stance (powerlifter stance) I can squat 470 raw, no suit, briefs, etc. but my strength coach recommended i go narrower, he said because you never play football with your feet that wide. So i went narrower yesterday and my squat is about 415. I cant do as much weight but it definintely did a good number on my hammies and glutes. With a wide stance i feel it more on the inside of my hamstring and my glutes. Im thinking about going narrow because it will make me a better football player, but the nice thing about the wide stance is I can really load up the bar and do work. On both i go to parrallel or below parallel. A quick opinion from will, travis, ben or sensei would be nice (or any of the other big wigs on this site, usually there pretty good at answering my questions:)

slashkills
06-28-2009, 03:57 PM
Im not one of the big guys on the site but i would mix your stance up every now and then. I dont think its a big deal though as long as you are hitting depth and progressing you will continue to get stronger and better at football.

Travis Bell
06-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Stick with the wide stance, just use a lower box. Make sure you are going just slightly below parallel.

Close stance is fine for quad development, but you need the wide stance to develop your hips, glutes and hams. If you're getting that with the close stance, you either have some very big muscle imbalances or you are doing it wrong.

Football players need that wide stance drive though. Use the close stance when you are doing leg press or hack squats or whatever.

BoAnderson71
06-29-2009, 11:52 AM
ok sounds good. thanks

gplumhead
07-13-2009, 11:12 PM
im a us marine, and im looking to get out soon, ie november, and walk onto a college football team next spring. i used to play fullback, but im a little out of practice, im 6 feet tall, and about 260 right now, i bench about 300x4, and i can squat a good amount, i need a workout and diet routine that will help me to cut down to about 245, and get jacked and also increase my speed. im running a 4.9 right now, but i would like to get down to about a 4.6. can you help?

Travis Bell
07-14-2009, 10:07 AM
You may want to read through the thread GP, speed expert was proven to be a tool and a fraud, but we still carried on some good discussion that you'll probably find helpful.

Sensei
07-15-2009, 10:07 AM
If you are 260 and running an honest-to-gosh 4.9, you're doing pretty well and should keep up what you are doing. Your planned 15lb weight loss will help too.

aormz
01-05-2010, 08:04 PM
hey speed guy. I need a good vertical jump program. I wanna add as many inches on my vertical leap as possible

betog22
01-08-2010, 05:59 PM
well i have a 7th grader whos getting ready for track season and he asked me for help on gettting faster. i didnt want to get in the way of what theyre doing in their football period so thats why im asking here. i know they just lift weights but id rather get info from people that know what theyre talking about in here. last year we did the sparq program from nike and that was awesome. im looking for a gym workout and also a speed workout. hes gonna be running the 100 and 200 so anything would help....

slashkills
01-08-2010, 08:55 PM
He is only in 7th grade and he is weightlifting for football already?

betog22
01-08-2010, 09:58 PM
well in junior high the athletic period they make em do like squats cleans bench nothing too big like power/body builders....i told him to go hard on the weights but not anythin crazy...hes more concerned about track right now because its coming up soon in about a month or so