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jtteg_x
10-23-2008, 02:03 AM
I am looking forward to attend the police academy this coming December if I'm lucky (if not, its more time to prepare:)). The bare minimum states:
# Run 1.5 miles in 14:36
# Complete 28 push-ups without resting
# Complete 35 sit-ups in one minute

I'm coming from a powerlifting background where I would eat plenty of food and grow out of my clothes. It's a bit hard but the change isn't too bad. I would like to increase the amount of endurance, running, push-ups, sit-ups, jumping jacks, and pull ups. So when I enter the academy, it will all be a piece of cake. I can easily do 33 push ups in one sitting. One of my buddies (a LEO) told me he had to do 300 push ups throughout the day, jog/run 5 miles without stopping, and 300 jumping jacks. He told me high endurance is very important (which I lack of btw). There was an day where he performed jumping jacks crossed-over with push-ups in one sitting. This is an idea of what I can expect so far. I am at 198lb body weight with roughly 22% body fat. I been maintaining this weight for awhile but need to lose more (my diet has been 'ok'). A lot of subway, no soda/junk, fewer carbs, the minor adjustments.


My planned routine looks something like this:

Sun: OFF
Mon: endurance jog 2 miles (non stop)
Tues: push ups, pull ups, abs, cardio drills involving mix matching of push ups/jumping jacks
Wed: OFF
Thurs: fast paced jog 1-1.5 miles
Fri: *REPEAT TUES*
Sat: 1.5-2 miles

I will throw in the traditional weight lifting like the bench press, lat pull downs, rows, hyper extensions, squat/deadlift, pull throughs, etc but will treat them as secondary exercises. Sunday I work the whole day and Wednesday I have afternoon and night classes.

Anthony
10-23-2008, 06:40 AM
For LEO/Military applications, I would take a really hard look at CrossFit.

KingJustin
10-23-2008, 12:56 PM
I of course second Anthony's suggestion.

liquidfire
10-23-2008, 01:45 PM
Bro those minimum requirements should be easy. If you can't do that already that's pretty sad. I'd say just go in to it in whatever shape you are at the time and let them get you to whatever level they expect you to be at. There are lots of fat, out of shape cops... I'm sure you'll do fine.

speed_expert
10-23-2008, 01:47 PM
crossfit is a very good program to use for improving conditioning, but minimal strength/size gains. For the running part, doing just one set of a fast paced jog or as its called tempo, at a extensive and both intensive pace, should be done at about 7-8 runs over a distance of around 800m for special endurance. So replace thursday's workout with that.

KingJustin
10-23-2008, 02:11 PM
^^ That post makes me angry. (!!!)

(1) It doesn't look like the OP is trying to really elicit a whole lot of strength gains, and it seems like he's trying to lose fat and weight in general.
(2) Keeping in mind that CF is ~50% conditioning, it is an excellent strength-training program. Take, for instance, Anthony, who has somewhere around a 560 deadlift at 180lbs. If you are taking into account what I consider the "big 9" (3 powerlifts, "3" oly lifts, OHP, Dips & Chin-ups), CF athletes are close to on par with pure-strength athletes if broken into weight-classes.
(3) Body composition is 80% diet. If your diet is in place, you can gain muscle with CF. Also, it's an absolutely excellent (pretty much perfect) system for fat loss.
(4) The plan to go all sport-specific from the start is mistaken, imo. For one, you can accomplish a lot of things at one time by doing metcons and you can make your training a lot denser and thereby make more overall progress if you stay general in the beginning. In addition, in all honesty CF is pretty much made for people with tests similar to these. CF athletes dominate these tests.

Ryan Hale
10-23-2008, 02:51 PM
# Run 1.5 miles in 14:36
# Complete 28 push-ups without resting
# Complete 35 sit-ups in one minute

These are somewhat easy goals.I realize you want to do better than the min.,and it should be no problem for you to smoke this test with the right training.
A 8 minute mile will put you in at 12 minutes for the run.And you'll be able to to 40 pushups in a row by December.Situps you should be able to hit 40-45 easy.
I'm a ex-soldier and most of us could run two miles in 14 or so minutes.Some way faster.
Best of luck.

Not to hi-jack your thread,but my oldest boy wants to get into Navy Dive School and that test is much much harder for the min.

Ryan Hale

liquidfire
10-23-2008, 04:29 PM
^^ That post makes me angry. (!!!)

(1) It doesn't look like the OP is trying to really elicit a whole lot of strength gains, and it seems like he's trying to lose fat and weight in general.
(2) Keeping in mind that CF is ~50% conditioning, it is an excellent strength-training program. Take, for instance, Anthony, who has somewhere around a 560 deadlift at 180lbs. If you are taking into account what I consider the "big 9" (3 powerlifts, "3" oly lifts, OHP, Dips & Chin-ups), CF athletes are close to on par with pure-strength athletes if broken into weight-classes.
(3) Body composition is 80% diet. If your diet is in place, you can gain muscle with CF. Also, it's an absolutely excellent (pretty much perfect) system for fat loss.
(4) The plan to go all sport-specific from the start is mistaken, imo. For one, you can accomplish a lot of things at one time by doing metcons and you can make your training a lot denser and thereby make more overall progress if you stay general in the beginning. In addition, in all honesty CF is pretty much made for people with tests similar to these. CF athletes dominate these tests.

Big 9? Bro, there are only 2 oly lifts. Clean and jerk and the snatch. You consider dips and chins on the same level as squats, bench press and deadlifts? You've gotta be kidding me. Check some of the powerlifters on this board and I bet they destroy your crossfit idols on these strength feats (yes, even in different bodyweight classes).

Sensei
10-23-2008, 06:43 PM
I say we just rename this forum "Crossfit for GPP and SSP".

KingJustin
10-23-2008, 08:07 PM
^^ Haha Sensei. I am very cognizant of how much I champion for CF to say the least. This happens to be a pretty ideal use of it though. And honestly, building GPP with CrossFit and then moving to SSP is practical for just about every sport that requires conditioning. And, the likelihood of ****ing things up is much smaller.

I did "3" and not 3 because some people have a high clean and a bad jerk or vice versa. Clean + Jerk + Snatch = "3."

I don't see why you can't count chins or dips in there. It's pretty easy to tell on chins whether there is a complete rep, and it's probably a more functional movement than, say, bench press. And, for a non-equipped lifter, chin-up strength has the potential to be about as high as bench strength, and the ROM is longer. For example, my chin-up 1rm is +145lbs and I'm 215. So that's 360 lbs moved. My bench is only about 300 lbs and I train them about an equal amount. I really wouldn't have any problem including 20 lifts in a theoretical pure-strength hypo if they were all functional lifts, but I think the 9 I mentioned cover everything and do a good job being about right for upper/lower/push/pull and such.

I don't doubt that the top strength athletes are a bit stronger than the top CF athletes in a hypo like this. But, when putting them into the same weight class and not letting them use equipment, I think it's relatively close, especially if they are the same height as well. That said, The CF athletes have the added benefit of being much, much better conditioned.

Here is Josh Everett (http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_JoshKingKong.wmv)

Chubrock
10-23-2008, 08:22 PM
I don't doubt that the top strength athletes are a bit stronger than the top CF athletes in a hypo like this. But, when putting them into the same weight class and not letting them use equipment, I think it's relatively close, especially if they are the same height as well. That said, The CF athletes have the added benefit of being much, much better conditioned.


See, you can't break it down that far. I agree with the raw and weight classes, but breaking it down even further into height classes is over the top. If you're going to do that, you might as well break it down into bf% and then body type and so on and so forth. If height is an issue in your weight class, get bigger. I also disagree that the comparisons will be relatively close. We've got guys on this board that aren't even mid level competitors but would still place almost at the top when compared to a top level CF guy.

KingJustin
10-23-2008, 08:32 PM
I'm just wondering, but who? I think I know most of Everett's stats, and Anthony can share his as well. What 170 or 185 lb lifter on here is so far ahead that it's not even close?

And the reason I'm throwing height in is because of the fixed ROM deal. There's a reason why strongmen are taller than powerlifters, for instance.

Chubrock
10-23-2008, 08:49 PM
I'm just wondering, but who? I think I know most of Everett's stats, and Anthony can share his as well. What 170 or 185 lb lifter on here is so far ahead that it's not even close?

And the reason I'm throwing height in is because of the fixed ROM deal. There's a reason why strongmen are taller than powerlifters, for instance.


You're picking the best of the best, and with regards to strength, Anthony and Everett are definitely near the top as far as that goes. I did make that comment and it may have been an exaggeration, but the point I was trying to make was that people who are considered to have decent strength are going to be comparable to the upper echelon of CF. Guys like KevinStarke, HomeYield, RBB, Sid, Guido, BoB. None of those guys are over 220 with the exception of RBB and I'm not sure what he weighs at the moment. Will and RBB may be the outliers when compared to the other guys in that list, but neither of them would total more than a Master Level in a meet.

WBB is also a small pool of people to pull from when making this comparison. You've got other boards such as Marunde-Muscle that have some very strong lightweight guys. I'm not arguing that there are some strong people in Crossfit but I don't think the comparison is as close as you state. You've also got to remember that CF hasn't produced many (any?) very strong people. A lot of the strongest CFers were very strong before. CF made them more well rounded and better conditioned.

Chubrock
10-23-2008, 08:51 PM
And the reason I'm throwing height in is because of the fixed ROM deal. There's a reason why strongmen are taller than powerlifters, for instance.


Height isn't a consideration in any division or classification. The adage of never being the tallest person in your weight class holds true. There are also some tall PLers and some shorter strongmen. There's no clear designation as far as height.

Travis Bell
10-23-2008, 09:14 PM
Mariuz Pudz is not exactly tall

FFHill
10-23-2008, 09:18 PM
jtteg_x ,
I have to do this test annually for my job. (although I must be younger than you because I have to run in 11:58) I have never ran at all to get ready. I have used Kettlebells for endurance training, and I get such a great carryover I belive I ran in 9 somthing the first year. Other guys I work with have ran and ran, but I really don't enjoy running, so KB's are what I do.

KingJustin
10-23-2008, 10:02 PM
Guys like KevinStarke, HomeYield, RBB, Sid, Guido, BoB.

I don't follow everyone as closely as you do, but AFAIK Guido, Sid, RBB and HY are all over 200 lbs, right? KevinStark is a strong guy, but what kind of numbers is he throwing up (serious question; not rhetorical)? Same with BoB (who I don't know)? Remember, Everett has a ~350 clean and is strong all the way through on the other lifts, including chins. A lot of the stronger guys on here are cleaning ~250 and doing chins with +45 lbs.

I'm not saying there's not a difference, I just think that the difference isn't as big as you are suggesting, and I think it goes to the point that you can get really strong, and stay really strong, doing CF or variations thereof that follow the same philosophy. It doesn't seem like the top guys are as strong as they really are because their #'s on the big 3 aren't amazing, but when you consider they can perform just as well on a lot of other lifts, and they are unequipped and much lighter that SHW's, I think the difference is closer than you are making it out to be. (But I do want to finish our little discussion! get on AIM!)

Also, there's some other guys at the top just as strong as Anthony and Josh, and in addition, there's guys that are mediocre at the conditioning stuff that are stronger than all of them...

cphafner
10-23-2008, 10:07 PM
Guys you are getting off track here. Answer the thread starters question and move your discussion to a more appropriate thread.

Chubrock
10-24-2008, 06:11 AM
Guys you are getting off track here. Answer the thread starters question and move your discussion to a more appropriate thread.

Fair enough. Do CF. You should be able to easily hit the numbers you're looking for.

Sensei
10-24-2008, 06:20 AM
To the OP,

Those requirements are not difficult and it sounds like you could pass them already. IMHO, there is no need to totally change your training. You might try regular (weight) training 2x/week and circuit training (running, pull-ups, sit-ups, push-ups, calisthenics, etc.) 2x/week. I think that would be plenty and you'd probably be able to maintain (if not improve) your lifts pretty well.

WillKuenzel
10-24-2008, 06:24 AM
Before I start on this rant, I agree with Anthony that in this case for the OP, Crossfit would be highly beneficial.



I don't doubt that the top strength athletes are a bit stronger than the top CF athletes in a hypo like this. But, when putting them into the same weight class and not letting them use equipment, I think it's relatively close, especially if they are the same height as well. That said, The CF athletes have the added benefit of being much, much better conditioned.

Here is Josh Everett (http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_JoshKingKong.wmv)

So let me get this straight, you're going to compare the some of the absolute best that Crossfit has to compare against us on this board that are more of a general population? Lets take Josh Everitt for example (which how much does he weigh by the way?) and compare him to an upper echelon raw powerlifter. Not somebody from this site, lets take Sam Byrd (even though he does post here), who has a raw 700 something squat at ~200lbs. Do you really want to compare apples and oranges? Don't pick the top guys and compare strength to me. While I hold my on, just barely, I'm barely a Master level if that, I'm not the best that powerlifting, or this site, has to offer. Look at Eric Talmant (165-181) or somebody else more comparable.

In my peak oly training, I did a 345 clean and jerk and a 285 snatch at little less than 200lbs. I also had a low 500's deadlift. My squat was piss poor though. I was also coming out of college where I competed in the pole vault, so my endurance wasn't too bad either. But, I'll admit that my endurance would not compare to that of a true Crossfitter, but my strength would.

Put average me against an average Crossfitter.


The thing that you (and most people that love what they do) forget is that there is not perfect way to train. I compete in powerlifting, so that's how I train. Would doing crossfit workout make me a better powerlifter? No, you have to practice how you play. If something involves multiple different obstacles or an undetermined factor, then you want to be prepared, I would suggest doing both strongman and Crossfit. I believe in Crossfit as a tool. It has its uses but that does not make it the be-all-and-end-all of training. Nor does it make those that do it (even varieties of it, if you want to lump all endurance training under the crossfit umbrella) the better athletes. Because you don't specialize, you're better than average at everything. When you want to specialize, what do you do? You specialize, with bits and pieces of your former training left in.

I find it funny that guys in Crossfit will continue to be Crossfitters, even after they have left the meat and potatoes of Crossfit behind. Sure they might do a workout here and there but just because I do a few sets of shoulder presses does not make me a bodybuilder. If I do a few sets of farmers walks, it doesn't make me a strongman, but if I do Fran once a year, then I'm Crossfit for life? Guys at Westside train Westside. If you don't go to Westside you don't train Westside. You're a powerlifter with some background from Westside.

Chubrock
10-24-2008, 06:40 AM
So let me get this straight, you're going to compare the some of the absolute best that Crossfit has to compare against us on this board that are more of a general population?


In fairness to Justin, I used this angle originally and that is what he was responding to. With that said, the guys that are involved in the general population of this board would hold up very well against the upper echelon of CF, and as you put it, you're barely a Master level lifter.

Btw, I agree with the rest of your post.

Sensei
10-24-2008, 09:27 AM
Since it's so off track already, I guess I'll chime in...

Comparing CF trainees to PLers or OLer or whomever is an absolute waste of time. Specificity rules folks... we can debate till the cows come home, but there's NOTHING that changes that. Is a CFer going to do better on "Fran" than a PLer? Yes. Is a PLer going to squat, bench, and DL more? Yes. Are there exceptions? Of course.

As far as the CrossFit elite go, understand that some, if not many, come from a variety of athletic backgrounds, and as I often point out, not everyone in CrossFit is following the WoD as it is programmed on crossfit.com

Chubrock
10-24-2008, 09:32 AM
Since it's so off track already, I guess I'll chime in...



Yea, we've sent it off course, but I do think the OP had his question answered. The biggest consensus was to take a look at CF, though as you pointed out, the numbers aren't that hard to obtain so simply adding some running in will do him good.

huskybear
10-24-2008, 09:59 AM
To the OP,

Those requirements are not difficult and it sounds like you could pass them already. IMHO, there is no need to totally change your training. You might try regular (weight) training 2x/week and circuit training (running, pull-ups, sit-ups, push-ups, calisthenics, etc.) 2x/week. I think that would be plenty and you'd probably be able to maintain (if not improve) your lifts pretty well.


Sensei is pretty bang on... I think you could even continue your PL style training as long as you realize that you need to add some running to prep for the running you are going to do in training... if you don't prep for this, you'll get injuries at police college/academy and that will mess it all up - it's one thing running the test once a year, and another going through the months of training and not being prepped for the increased volume... change in some of your assistance work to target specificlly push-ups, sit-ups and pull-ups - if you just want the bare minimum, that's a piss pore attitude going in, so I like where your heads at there...

I was doing a 5x5 system with running when I first applied 9 years ago and killed the physical, and I made the above adjustments... since starting a westside template seriously 9 months ago, I think that I'm in better standing as the high rep accessory work helped my GPP and my running has actually improved when I focus on it - the last several months I have added it back to my training format...

Either way, hope this helps... just my opinion from my experiences in this game... Sensei is on point though, and since reading the forums, don't find I ever disagree with his advice... Goodluck!

KingJustin
10-24-2008, 01:38 PM
Well I asked cphafner via PM to split the threads last night, but maybe he figured the question was answered and we can derail.

Anthony answered in a way more professional method than I did and honestly my responses are admittedly overhyping CF programming a bit. My true stance is basically that it is a very good set of principles that are generally worth applying to establish a base (GPP) for sports, and then you have to get more specialized. I also think that for most people, a modification involving an increase in overall work is generally better than the main site WODs.

Ok that out of the way let me continue the discussion. We're getting pretty specific here and I'd kind of like to stay that way. HomeYield, I have tremendous respect for you so don't make this out to be me calling you out or anything like that. Andrew mentioned some names, including yours, and I mentioned I thought you were over 200 lbs (apparently I was wrong on that).
Josh Everett was the guy in the video I posted. http://games.crossfit.com/athletes/athlete-profile-josh-everett.html
He's 185 lbs with a 350 c&j and a 270 lb snatch. The 455 deadlifts in the video looked pretty easy, and he did 3 of them (along with 9 squat-cleans w/ 250) in under 3 minutes without a belt, so I'm guessing his deadlift is 500-535ish. I'm guessing where he separates a bit from most the lifters on this site is with his chin-up max, +160. And, I think at any given time he's relatively close to all these numbers (i.e. he doesn't sacrifice his C&J for 6 months to have a big pull-up max). I think his Squat is probably a bit low, like 450 and I'm not sure what he benches.
That in mind, I think he competes in Oly lifting as well, and they're pretty strict about steroids, so I'm not sure whether he's juicing, which is a pretty big difference.

Anyway, point being that although admittedly the best gym-strength lifters are going to be stronger than the best CF guys, I don't think the difference is HUGE when you consider more than just the lifts that those lifters specialize in. Andrew mentioned that there are specific lifters on this site (which is honestly one of the best sites for strength) that are ahead of the top guys in CF, even in their weight class. I asked for who, so I was wondering some stats. I'd still be interested in who here (maybe Chris Rodgers?) is under 190 and can put up the same #'s.


Also I may feel like a bit of a douchebag for needing to champion some guy I've never talked to rather than be able to just use myself. Maybe a few more years and I'll be competitive.

Chubrock
10-24-2008, 01:48 PM
Actually I said that people in the pure strength world that are considered to have decent strength would be comparable to the top echelon of CFers ;)

Btw, Sam Byrd has a 700lbs raw squat, not bench.

One thing that another poster brought up was that there are a lot of strong people that start doing CF. Do you now consider them when talking about what CF has done? Has CF developed any incredibly strong people?

KingJustin
10-24-2008, 02:30 PM
I don't think anyone is ridiculously strong from doing just the WODs by themselves. But, a lot of people supplement them with strength training, which is still following the general CF system...

I still think the WODs can make you generally pretty strong on their own if your intensity is high, but you need to supplement to get to the top. My workout partner right now has been doing just the WODs for the past couple years and has gotten a lot stronger. For the most part, he's ~10% ahead of me all the way through (although a bit heavier). So like 335 bench, 300 c&j, 400 deep squat, etc.

Also, considering it's just a group of ~60 people, I think CFW has some pretty strong athletes that have made a lot of progress using Tony's programming.

Chubrock
10-24-2008, 03:01 PM
Also, considering it's just a group of ~60 people, I think CFW has some pretty strong athletes that have made a lot of progress using Tony's programming.


You've also got to remember that almost all of those guys were strong before. Yes CFW has made them strong in other lifts but those were mainly lifts they hadn't done before.

Sensei
10-24-2008, 06:40 PM
This was a Josh Everett quote from a different message board:


How am I preparing for the games? Nothing special really. My weakly schedule looks like this...

Monday: agility drills followed by either 30yd sprints with a sled or sprints on the track up to 300m... everything is with full recovery... no fatigue
Tuesday: about 45 min of O-lift training focusing on snatches and sn asst movements a few sets of light C&J. After this I do a wt room based Crossfit (no running)
Wed: Sprints: 40yds up to 150m again with full recovery
Thursday: 45min of O-lifting focused on C&J along with heavy squats. I follow this with a running based Crossfit
Friday: rest day
Saturday: heavy o-lift day sn, C&J, squat... I usually follow this up with either 3x10 L-chins or 1x40 regular chins

Basically I enjoy sprinting & O-lifting so it makes up the bulk of my training. I'm ignoring training for the distance run because I felt like doing that last year really wore me down and I couldn't have run any worse than what I did anyways. As far as being mentally prepared... mostly I'm just visualizing my self being successful...also thinking of any and all possible wods and how I would attack them. The toughest part for me will be convincing myself to compete on the run... I have no interest in running over 200m competitively.
Which, again, begs the question how many of CrossFit's 'elite' use the WoD as is all, or even most, of the time? Josh's training, as described above (and I haven't ever spoken to the guy and really don't know anything about him - only what I happened to stumble across in a message board thread), is essentially OL with a little running thrown in.

I know this sounds like I'm bashing CrossFit... I assure you that I have no such intention. But, my point was/is (and HomeYield made this point too) that there is A LOT of training variations and experience among "CFers" and classifying someone as such (a "CFer") just because they do a WoD here and there might be giving a little too much credit to the system and not the individual or his/her tweaking of the system.

KingJustin
10-24-2008, 11:09 PM
^^ Sensei, he also did say:


: currently I'm doing about half of the workout posted on mikesgym.com(just sticking to the sn & clean & jerk portions)followed by the WOD. I do this monday thru thursday & sat. If the wod is a rest day I do all of burgeners workout + agility and sprint work.
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=3205&page=1

Sensei
10-24-2008, 11:46 PM
Well, that post is from 2006 - the quote I posted was, apparently, made prior to the most recent CF Games. Like I said, I don't know Josh Everett from Adam so whatever.

In the words of Dr. Squat, "In order to achieve ANYTHING in life to the pinnacle of your capabilities, you must 'marry' the thing! Become a 'priest' to it. Live, eat, sleep and breathe it!" Once more... my point is that specificity rules and there is NO debating that. I am a fan of many things CrossFit, but I've actually had a number of CrossFitters approach me (in person and on the internet) asking me about improving their squat numbers and, quite frankly, part of my advice is that they need to squat heavy more often and, at least temporarily, take a break from the cleans, sprints, wall ball, air squats, burpees, and thrusters.... If you want to have a big squat, you need to squat big.

The "problem" with CF (and it was and still is to some extent the same w. WS) is that it somehow becomes THE answer to everything. LEO? CF. Military? CF. PL? CF. OL? CF. Football? CF. Marathon? CF.

ProLogic
10-25-2008, 01:05 AM
Looking over the pay of the Oakland, CA police department.. wow.

Police Officer Trainee starts off at $5,388 per month (first day of Academy training)

KingJustin
10-25-2008, 08:01 AM
Sensei -
Yeah I do agree with that. CFers will never be able to have a single lift that is unbelievable. That is without question true.

Chubrock
10-25-2008, 05:31 PM
Looking over the pay of the Oakland, CA police department.. wow.

Police Officer Trainee starts off at $5,388 per month (first day of Academy training)

You've got to look at the cost of living in most parts in and around CA.

KingJustin
10-25-2008, 05:44 PM
It probably isn't exactly easy work in Oakland, either. Risk of death, for instance, is probably relatively high!

bodybuildingwim
10-25-2008, 07:15 PM
good luck

R__J
11-23-2008, 02:08 PM
150's will get you fit in no time!

Reko
11-23-2008, 06:33 PM
It probably isn't exactly easy work in Oakland, either. Risk of death, for instance, is probably relatively high!

Not worth it!

Shouse94
11-24-2008, 05:02 AM
Dude don't worry about it bro. I graduated from a FL academy about 6 months ago. Paramilitary. Don't sweat it. I wouldn't change your routine. You are going to find people in there WAY worse off than you...and they will make it too.

12u$$eLL-
11-24-2008, 01:53 PM
Dude don't worry about it bro. I graduated from a FL academy about 6 months ago. Paramilitary. Don't sweat it. I wouldn't change your routine. You are going to find people in there WAY worse off than you...and they will make it too.

Who cares if people are worst than you.. You should train your hardest no matter what.. get **** done, even 12 minutes for a mile and a half is pitiful.. its not hard just get it done..