PDA

View Full Version : How long to pause...



mosley1990
10-29-2008, 05:19 PM
im new to powerlifting and am wanting to compete so, i recently started pausing my BP. Before i started pausing i did have a bounce and got 315 so i know this pause is going to drop that number drastically. But, i was just curious how long i need to pause? thanks for any advice.

Ryan Hale
10-29-2008, 05:27 PM
How long to do pause BP's,or how long to pause your BP attempt?

1 second is fine if the latter.

Ryan Hale

mosley1990
10-29-2008, 05:51 PM
sorry should of been more specific...how long to pause at the bottom of the movement. i was thinking 1 sec should be sufficient.

Reko
10-29-2008, 06:23 PM
Until it comes to a complete stop and is motionless on your chest. I don't have much of a difference on my pause vs touch and go bench.

mosley1990
10-29-2008, 07:18 PM
i wish i could say the same lol. the most ive paused was 275. i might be about to pause 295. big drop from 315.

BigTallOx
10-29-2008, 08:15 PM
i was just curious how long i need to pause? thanks for any advice.

In the meets I've competed at, I've noticed that if the lifter looks like they're out of control, they made them pause longer. If you're controlled on the way down, sometimes the pause was as short as touch and go, ie they'd get the press comment right away. But since you're not used to pausing, I'd say pause for at least a second.



i might be about to pause 295. big drop from 315.


Yeah, but it doesn't really matter if you're not doing it right.

mosley1990
10-29-2008, 08:40 PM
In the meets I've competed at, I've noticed that if the lifter looks like they're out of control, they made them pause longer. If you're controlled on the way down, sometimes the pause was as short as touch and go, ie they'd get the press comment right away. But since you're not used to pausing, I'd say pause for at least a second.



Yeah, but it doesn't really matter if you're not doing it right.

My thoughts exactly. thats why ive changed my style. i really want to compete so, i figured i really needed to change. nothing like the feel of laying a lot of weight on your chest...pausing....then pressing it smoothly lol.

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 08:16 AM
In the meets I've competed at, I've noticed that if the lifter looks like they're out of control, they made them pause longer.

The rules state that the press signal is given once the bar become motionless on the chest. The length of the pause is not determined by "if a lifter look like they're out of control."

If you're controlled on the way down, sometimes the pause was as short as touch and go, ie they'd get the press comment right away.

That is what you want, what I'd term a "legal touch and go" in the bench press.

But since you're not used to pausing, I'd say pause for at least a second.

Pausing the weight on the chest will build strength off the bottom. However, in training for a meet, you need to employ touch a go benching, as well.

Performing touch and go benching develops the stretch reflex, an elastic sling shot effect. The stretch reflex catapults the bar off your chest with much more power. That is why you are able to bench more weight with a touch and go than a pause.

In training for a meet bench press, your training needs to involve learning to anticipate the bench press signal. Sprinters in track do this. They anticipate the gun signal to come out of the blocks.

Pushing the bar a split second faster off you chest in the bench press means you are utilizing the stretch reflex more effectively. That means you'll push more weight up in the bench press.

The stretch reflex dissolves quickly. "Delays as short as .02 seconds are sufficient to dissipate the benefits of prior stretch", with up to 50% of the stretch reflex being lost in one second. (Siff and Verkhoshansky/Supertraining)

That means the longer the bar sits on your chest, the less of that elastic sling shot effect you have to drive it off your chest.

Kenny Croxdale

BigTallOx
10-30-2008, 08:27 AM
In the meets I've competed at, I've noticed that if the lifter looks like they're out of control, they made them pause longer.

The rules state that the press signal is given once the bar become motionless on the chest. The length of the pause is not determined by "if a lifter look like they're out of control."


So you're arguing with something that I observed with my own eyes. How arrogant to say what I saw in real life was wrong. The thing is, the rule book is not giving the press command, a human being is, who is interpreting the rules. It was obvious from the meets I've been to, THERE IS INTERPRETATION, and lifters who were controlled got the press command sooner. There was no doubt about this.



If you're controlled on the way down, sometimes the pause was as short as touch and go, ie they'd get the press comment right away.

That is what you want, what I'd term a "legal touch and go" in the bench press.

But since you're not used to pausing, I'd say pause for at least a second.

[COLOR="Navy"][B]Pausing the weight on the chest will build strength off the bottom. However, in training for a meet, you need to employ touch a go benching, as well.


Brining the weight down knowing that YOU'RE going to decide when you're touching is much different than bringing the weight down until SOMEBODY else says you're touching. There's also reaction time involved between the press command and when you're body starts pressing again. If you want to make sure you can get a clean lift at the meet, when training pause for a second. Then there is little doubt you will be fine at the meet. Don't try to anticipate the press command.

Guido
10-30-2008, 08:36 AM
So you're arguing with something that I observed with my own eyes. How arrogant to say what I saw in real life was wrong. The thing is, the rule book is not giving the press command, a human being is, who is interpreting the rules. It was obvious from the meets I've been to, THERE IS INTERPRETATION, and lifters who were controlled got the press command sooner. There was no doubt about this.
I have to agree with Ox on this. I've seen that be the case, too. Judges don't always interpret the rules exactly by the book.

Interesting about the stretch reflex stuff, though. I knew it had a major effect but didn't know exactly how much.

mosley1990
10-30-2008, 09:38 AM
ok, thanks for everything guys.

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 09:56 AM
[QUOTE=BigTallOx;2026677]So you're arguing with something that I observed with my own eyes. How arrogant to say what I saw in real life was wrong.

First of all, you stated "I've noticed that if the lifter looks like they're out of control, they made them pause longer." You are assuming that was the reason for the longer pause. That may or may not be the case.

The thing is, the rule book is not giving the press command, a human being is, who is interpreting the rules.

The rule specifically states the signal is given when the bar is motionless on the chest. It does not go into the control issue.

Very few lifter own a rule book or have read it, cover to cover.

Do own a rule book? Have you read it?

It was obvious from the meets I've been to, THERE IS INTERPRETATION, and lifters who were controlled got the press command sooner.

:) Well, that is your INTERPRETATION which may or may not be precisely the reason. So, your INTERPRETATION is you assumption.

There was no doubt about this.

Let's clarify that to "There was no doubt" your mind.

Brining the weight down knowing that YOU'RE going to decide when you're touching is much different than bringing the weight down until SOMEBODY else says you're touching. There's also reaction time involved between the press command and when you're body starts pressing again. If you want to make sure you can get a clean lift at the meet, when training pause for a second. Then there is little doubt you will be fine at the meet. Don't try to anticipate the press command.

You definitely want to wait for the press signal with in you opening attempt. That insures you are in the meet.

However, on your third attempt when you attempting a personal record, you want to antiicipate the press signal. As someone once said, "Action beats reaction."

Great bench pressers anticipate the press signal. This is a timing issue that requires practice.

As I noted, sprinter's anticipate the gun signal to start in track. Linebackers do it when blitzing a quaterback in football. They anticipate the ball snap.

Baseball players use anticipation in stealing bases.

As with anything, there is a risk to reward factor involved. However, a lifter can maximize the rewards of setting a personal record while minimize the risk of having the lift turned down for beating the signal by practicing this during their training sessions.

You can also increase chances of success by observing the various referee and thier timing on giving a press signal.

Kenny Croxdale

Reko
10-30-2008, 10:20 AM
[
First of all, you stated "I've noticed that if the lifter looks like they're out of control, they made them pause longer." You are assuming that was the reason for the longer pause. That may or may not be the case.



I've actually had judges say that almost word for word in the rules meeting. They pretty much said if you came straight down with it (as opposed to fighting that last inch in a super tight shirt) you would get a quicker command due to exhibiting more control. It may not be in the rule book but that is what the judge said, and he is the one running the show.

I think it also depends on who is judging (obviously), as from my very limited meet experience, if an experienced PLer if your judge, you will have quicker press commands - more along the lines of getting it once it remains motionless on the chest as opposed to a younger or newer person just waiting for a second after the pause before giving the command.

BigTallOx
10-30-2008, 10:25 AM
It was obvious from the meets I've been to, THERE IS INTERPRETATION, and lifters who were controlled got the press command sooner.

:) Well, that is your INTERPRETATION which may or may not be precisely the reason. So, your INTERPRETATION is you assumption.



Well, it really doesn't matter that it was my interpretation ( and isn't the exact reason ), because it was consistent. Every lifter I saw who didn't show control got the press command later than those who were in control. Period. From what I saw, there is no argument here, so I'm done commenting on this topic.

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 10:32 AM
I have to agree with Ox on this. I've seen that be the case, too. Judges don't always interpret the rules exactly by the book.

First of all, where in the rule book does it state that a longer pause is required for lifters who are not completely in control of the bar during the descent?

Most of the interpretation of the rules comes from new referees or referees who are unfamiliar with the rules.

The intent of the rules is to make sure all lifters are treated the same. If the rule is unclear, the Rules Committee will clarify them so that the referees are on the same page.

The interpertation of the referees usually is in such issues as the depth of a lifter's squat, if the lifter beat the press signal in the bench press, etc.

Obvious infraction are easy to call. When it's close, it harder to call.

That is why you have three referees. What one referee may miss, the other two will pick up.

The same applies with referees in football, baseball, and other sports.

Interesting about the stretch reflex stuff, though. I knew it had a major effect but didn't know exactly how much.

The stretch reflex play a major role in the bench press, all sports.

mosley1990 stated in his post, that he performed a touch and go with 315 and paused 275.

Reseaarch shows that up to 18% more power can be evoked when the stretch reflex is utilized in some movements.

mosley's 315 touch and go bench press is 13.45% more than his 275 pause.

What you want to do is learn to tap into the strech reflex with meet bench presses.

If mosley1990 learn to anticipte the referee's press signal, he'll perform a meet bench press with more than 275.

On first attempts be conservative, wait for the referee's signal.

On you third attempt (dependent on the stituation) anticipate the referee's signal. A great example of this is Doug Young's video on youtube

Young's bench press was a "legal touch and go." You see this with other great benchers, as well. They perform a "legal touch and go."

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 10:40 AM
I have to agree with Ox on this. I've seen that be the case, too. Judges don't always interpret the rules exactly by the book.

First of all, where in the rule book does it state that a longer pause is required for lifters who are not completely in control of the bar during the descent?

Most of the interpretation of the rules comes from new referees or referees who are unfamiliar with the rules.

The intent of the rules is to make sure all lifters are treated the same. If the rule is unclear, the Rules Committee will clarify them so that the referees are on the same page.

The interpertation of the referees usually is in such issues as the depth of a lifter's squat, if the lifter beat the press signal in the bench press, etc.

Obvious infraction are easy to call. When it's close, it harder to call.

That is why you have three referees. What one referee may miss, the other two will pick up.

The same applies with referees in football, baseball, and other sports.

Interesting about the stretch reflex stuff, though. I knew it had a major effect but didn't know exactly how much.

The stretch reflex play a major role in the bench press, all sports.

mosley1990 stated in his post, that he performed a touch and go with 315 and paused 275.

Reseaarch shows that up to 18% more power can be evoked when the stretch reflex is utilized in some movements.

mosley's 315 touch and go bench press is 13.45% more than his 275 pause.

What you want to do is learn to tap into the strech reflex with meet bench presses.

If mosley1990 learn to anticipte the referee's press signal, he'll perform a meet bench press with more than 275.

On first attempts be conservative, wait for the referee's signal.

On you third attempt (dependent on the stituation) anticipate the referee's signal. A great example of this is Doug Young's video on youtube

Young's bench press was a "legal touch and go." You see this with other great benchers, as well. They perform a "legal touch and go."

Kenny Croxdale

Ryano
10-30-2008, 12:55 PM
First of all, where in the rule book does it state that a longer pause is required for lifters who are not completely in control of the bar during the descent?


It says "motionless" in the rule books. I'm an APF & APA referee. I interpet "motionless" to be under control. If the bar is touching your chest but still moving,teetering, waving, or whatever, it's not motionless and you're not under control of the bar = no press signal. There really is no pause. As soon as it's motionless, the press signal should be given. It doesn't matter if the bar has been touching the chest .005 seconds or 10 seconds.

deeder
10-30-2008, 01:33 PM
It says "motionless" in the rule books. I'm an APF & APA referee. I interpet "motionless" to be under control. If the bar is touching your chest but still moving,teetering, waving, or whatever, it's not motionless and you're not under control of the bar = no press signal. There really is no pause. As soon as it's motionless, the press signal should be given. It doesn't matter if the bar has been touching the chest .005 seconds or 10 seconds.

I think this is what Ox was getting at all along although he didn't know the technical rule...

Even in an IPF meet, a lifter who descends the bar slowly and is stable as soon as touching the chest will get a quick press command. Whereas, a lifter who drops the bar fast might have to wait a second because the bar might still be sinking in to their chest, it might be teetering like Ryano said, etc.

The rule is motionless in all feds (as far as I know), not 'pause for 1 second'.


Kenny, I don't know who you are, but learn to use the quote feature and learn to write it paragraphs.

It sucks reading something when everything is...

On a new line.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

It's hard on my eyes.

Oh also, stop being so anal. Ox made a statement, he wasn't debating rules, he was just explaining his experience.

Do YOU own a rule book? Have you read it cover to cover?

I can't say I own a rule book. But I have read them online.

Guido
10-30-2008, 01:47 PM
Yes. Definitely learn to use the quote buttons!

Also, I don't know why you are spouting the rule book. Most of us know what the rules are, but as I said before, not everybody follows it exactly to the letter and judges are human, thus are capable of interpreting rules differently. You can't debate personal observations. They are what they are, and Ryano even backed it up as someone who has been a judge himself.

Ryano
10-30-2008, 01:57 PM
im new to powerlifting and am wanting to compete so, i recently started pausing my BP. Before i started pausing i did have a bounce and got 315 so i know this pause is going to drop that number drastically. But, i was just curious how long i need to pause? thanks for any advice.
I think it has been explained that in a meet, don't press until you get the press signal, no matter how long it is. For training purposes, when I'm doing pause presses I will pause about 1 second. I hope this helps.

BigTallOx
10-30-2008, 02:00 PM
I think this is what Ox was getting at all along although he didn't know the technical rule...

Even in an IPF meet, a lifter who descends the bar slowly and is stable as soon as touching the chest will get a quick press command. Whereas, a lifter who drops the bar fast might have to wait a second because the bar might still be sinking in to their chest, it might be teetering like Ryano said, etc.


Yes, that is basically what I was trying to say.



The rule is motionless in all feds (as far as I know), not 'pause for 1 second'.


The "pause for 1 second" came in as a suggestion I gave to the original poster because it sounded like he wasn't used to "touch and go" especially called by another person. While training, if he can pause for a second ( or some other small amount of time ), then he can be pretty sure that he'll get a good lift at the meet, which is really important for somebody new to powerlifting ( like he said he was ). That's all I was saying. If he wants to risk it, then fine, he can try to anticipate the press command. That's up to him.

mosley1990
10-30-2008, 03:36 PM
Im just going to make sure i become motionless before pressing. ill also still work some touch and gos also.

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 03:37 PM
Yes. Definitely learn to use the quote buttons!

Also, I don't know why you are spouting the rule book. Most of us know what the rules are, but as I said before, not everybody follows it exactly to the letter and judges are human, thus are capable of interpreting rules differently. You can't debate personal observations. They are what they are, and Ryano even backed it up as someone who has been a judge himself.


Most of lifters are familiar with some of the rules but don't know the rules. Most of lifter don't own a rule book. And most of lifters have never read a rule book, cover to cover.

I suspect that is the majority of lifter who post on this board don't own a rule book and have never read one all the way through. It worth the investment and it doesn't take long to read.

What the point of having a rule if a referee decides not to enforce it? Which rules are the really important ones and which one rules don't need to be followed? And who's qualifited to make those spot decision?

If a rule does not make sense, then delete if from the rule book.

Why can't a personal observation be questioned? Is there a rule on that?

Reko stated a judge gave him information. Was that a judge a lifter who was helping out? Was the judge a santunted referee? Was the judge a state, national or international referee?

The point is know your source. Is the information provided to you from a reputable source?

Kenny Croxdale

mosley1990
10-30-2008, 03:38 PM
that brings up another question i had. where can i get a rule book? if i have any plans of competeting...i def. want to read one lol.

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 03:47 PM
It says "motionless" in the rule books. I'm an APF & APA referee. I interpet "motionless" to be under control. If the bar is touching your chest but still moving,teetering, waving, or whatever, it's not motionless and you're not under control of the bar = no press signal. There really is no pause. As soon as it's motionless, the press signal should be given. It doesn't matter if the bar has been touching the chest .005 seconds or 10 seconds.

Ryano should be the "Poster Child" for this thread on the board. When all else fails check the source.

However, you won't find "motionless" defined in a dictionary as "under control." You are reading more into it that is there.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Im just going to make sure i become motionless before pressing. ill also still work some touch and gos also.

That is what you should do.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 03:52 PM
Do YOU own a rule book? Have you read it cover to cover?

I can't say I own a rule book. But I have read them online.[/COLOR]

I do have a rule book. I have read it...:)

Thanks for asking.

Kenny Croxdale

BigTallOx
10-30-2008, 04:02 PM
Im just going to make sure i become motionless before pressing. ill also still work some touch and gos also.

Before my first meet, it helped me to have one of my lifting buddies call the press command so I could practice having somebody else saying when to press. You'd think it should be easy, but the first few times it kind of put a different spin on things. It definitely helped me be ready for the meet.

Reko
10-30-2008, 04:05 PM
Reko stated a judge gave him information. Was that a judge a lifter who was helping out? Was the judge a santunted referee? Was the judge a state, national or international referee?

The point is know your source. Is the information provided to you from a reputable source?



I don't know what level judge he was. He was the one that judged the meet and that is all that matters then.

KarstenDD
10-30-2008, 04:20 PM
that brings up another question i had. where can i get a rule book? if i have any plans of competeting...i def. want to read one lol.

Just check the website of the fed you plan on competing in. It should have it somewhere.

As for Kenny, dude have you ever competed? If so, was there a rules briefing? If so, did the ref explain what he was looking for before he would give a press call? If so, I'm gonna venture a guess that something similar to "when the bar is motionless on the chest" was involved. It's not like all of us have been making this up. Just because something is in the rules doesn't mean it is enforced. Ever seen a cop speed?

Ryano
10-30-2008, 04:25 PM
Ryano should be the "Poster Child" for this thread on the board. When all else fails check the source.

However, you won't find "motionless" defined in a dictionary as "under control." You are reading more into it that is there.

Kenny Croxdale



Kenny, "motionless" is not defined as "under control", but a bar that is motionless, touching the chest implies that it is "under control". Therefore, if it is NOT motionless, it's not under control. And I have read the rule book, for several federations, cover to cover. Thankyou.

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 04:31 PM
[QUOTE=KarstenDD;2027019]As for Kenny, dude have you ever competed? If so, was there a rules briefing? If so, did the ref explain what he was looking for before he would give a press call? QUOTE]

Dude, I have/do compete.

At some of the meet, I give the rules briefing.

Kenny Croxdale

KarstenDD
10-30-2008, 04:48 PM
[QUOTE=KarstenDD;2027019]As for Kenny, dude have you ever competed? If so, was there a rules briefing? If so, did the ref explain what he was looking for before he would give a press call? QUOTE]

Dude, I have/do compete.

At some of the meet, I give give the rules briefing.

Kenny Croxdale

What fed?

Do you compete in? ref in?

deeder
10-30-2008, 04:49 PM
Dude, I have/do compete.

At some of the meet, I give give the rules briefing.

Kenny Croxdale

Are you a referee? Or just a stupid troll?

mosley1990
10-30-2008, 06:15 PM
Before my first meet, it helped me to have one of my lifting buddies call the press command so I could practice having somebody else saying when to press. You'd think it should be easy, but the first few times it kind of put a different spin on things. It definitely helped me be ready for the meet.

ive been thinking about doing that also lol. ill give it a try tomorrow

Kenny Croxdale
10-30-2008, 07:24 PM
Are you a referee?

I referee in the USPF. I lift in the USPF.

Kenny Croxdale

Dingus
11-04-2008, 10:40 PM
I referee in the USPF. I lift in the USPF.

Kenny Croxdale

Whats your total?

Kenny Croxdale
11-05-2008, 10:58 AM
Whats your total?

What does it matter?

Kenny Croxdale

Dingus
11-06-2008, 11:50 PM
What does it matter?

Kenny Croxdale

My apologies.

Tony Melrose