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View Full Version : Vids- Form Check! Cleans, Squats!



ZenMonkey
11-03-2008, 01:04 PM
I need some willing and able eyes for a form check... again!!


Here are a few more that came out after drilling on form yesterday and today. I realize I squatclean some and not others, but that wasnt really a concern today, it was on purpose. Watch them entirely, I think a better lift is at the end of the 60kg vid.

Cleans w/ 40KG
mX-JtjMvUnc

6kjhCnpaDto

Cleans w/ 60kg

2QsYsUD3wa8

Squats w/ 185 (pretty light for me)(camera looking into mirror

6LPZyNfuV9Y


Harsh Criticism Wanted!!

Chubrock
11-03-2008, 01:51 PM
1. Bring your stance in.

2. Sit your ass down.

3. Squeeze the bar off the floor.

4. Shrug your ****ing shoulders. You're getting a bit of a reverse curl going on.

5. Get some hip extension.

ZenMonkey
11-03-2008, 01:59 PM
Thanks man! This was me trying to get more extension... haha. Great advice, thanks

Chubrock
11-03-2008, 02:09 PM
Look up the Burgener warmup. It helps drill some of this stuff.

Jorge Sanchez
11-03-2008, 02:22 PM
I'd say your extension is still pretty weak. You should be trying to use your hips to whip the weight up to your shoulders. And shrug.

ZenMonkey
11-03-2008, 02:52 PM
Ok... Ill keep chuggin along. Thanks

Ryan Hale
11-03-2008, 04:20 PM
Squats are nice and deep,it looks like you have some sort of double pump,bounce, at the bottom of your squats.

Hope this helps a little.

Ryan Hale

geoffsherman
11-03-2008, 04:48 PM
Squats are nice and deep,it looks like you have some sort of double pump,bounce, at the bottom of your squats.

Hope this helps a little.

Ryan Hale

I agree. Your depth is awesome and form is pretty good overall, but I would focus on controlling the weight and not boucing on the bottom. As you get closer to max weights, you will get stapled because you lose tightness in the hole.

youngguns
11-03-2008, 04:51 PM
launch the bar off your thighs (just a bit below your groin). hump it into the air, if you will.

ZenMonkey
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
launch the bar off your thighs (just a bit below your groin). hump it into the air, if you will.

Thats a great way of putting it. So "launching" it off my thigh is basically making me pop my hips into full extension?

Reko
11-03-2008, 06:33 PM
you don't have much of a second pull, and it looks like you are catching the lighter cleans with your elbows down.

And to follow what jorge said (although I SUCK at cleans), I think a better shrug will help keep the bar in tight when it gets higher up, so you don't have to lean forward into the bar to catch it in the rack position. I do agree there was a lot of muscling/reverse curling going on in these.

Also, why the pause at the bottom of the squat?

youngguns
11-03-2008, 06:49 PM
Thats a great way of putting it. So "launching" it off my thigh is basically making me pop my hips into full extension?

basically.

use this, hes good.

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samadhi_smiles
11-03-2008, 06:58 PM
why do you pause at the bottom of the squat? It seems like a waste of energy and a bad habit to solidify

CleverName
11-03-2008, 07:10 PM
Don't intentionally try to slam your hips against the bar, but have it as secondary effect of you jumping/shrugging.

I also replied to this in the Videos section..

youngguns
11-03-2008, 07:19 PM
Don't intentionally try to slam your hips against the bar, but have it as secondary effect of you jumping/shrugging.


yeah, i should've mentioned that.

KingWilder
11-03-2008, 07:44 PM
Hard to judge the squat properly from that angle. Try and get a shot from the side.

JHarris
11-03-2008, 08:28 PM
Still tons of arm pull going on. That is not a problem that will correct itself - you really need to focus that early and make it go away as it will only ever cause you huge problems.

Look at it this way - you only need to get the bar (in the clean) up to about the height of your waist for you to squat underneath it and catch it. Your arms don't need to do any work at all if you accelerate and really jump. Try to imagine them not exerting any force. (Yes, yes.. when you get better, you will use them to pull yourself underneath. But you can worry about that later when you dont use them early on the pull.)

Basically, dont bend your arms until you've fully extended your ankles, knees and hips, as well as finished shrugging.

Reko
11-03-2008, 08:45 PM
Still tons of arm pull going on. That is not a problem that will correct itself - you really need to focus that early and make it go away as it will only ever cause you huge problems.

Look at it this way - you only need to get the bar (in the clean) up to about the height of your waist for you to squat underneath it and catch it. Your arms don't need to do any work at all if you accelerate and really jump. Try to imagine them not exerting any force. (Yes, yes.. when you get better, you will use them to pull yourself underneath. But you can worry about that later when you dont use them early on the pull.)

Basically, dont bend your arms until you've fully extended your ankles, knees and hips, as well as finished shrugging.

A guy who trains in our area used to be a sponsored oly lifter. He would demonstrate that point by cleaning and then letting go of the bar completely, put his hands straight out and then the bar would just land in his shoulders. His point was that the arms aren't really used in the clean at all, at least in terms of getting the weight up.

Ben Moore
11-03-2008, 09:43 PM
A guy who trains in our area used to be a sponsored oly lifter. He would demonstrate that point by cleaning and then letting go of the bar completely, put his hands straight out and then the bar would just land in his shoulders. His point was that the arms aren't really used in the clean at all, at least in terms of getting the weight up.

Always thought that little trick Conan does was cool

ZenMonkey
11-06-2008, 06:39 AM
why do you pause at the bottom of the squat? It seems like a waste of energy and a bad habit to solidify

That is the idea.... stop the eccecentric/concentric cycle. like a box squat.

RhodeHouse
11-06-2008, 10:56 AM
That is the idea.... stop the eccecentric/concentric cycle. like a box squat.

Nothing is like a box squat, except a box squat. Sitting on the box breaks up the eccentric/concentric chain. Pausing doesn't.

Reko
11-06-2008, 11:01 AM
Always thought that little trick Conan does was cool

I've yet to see it. It is the stuff of legends around here lol.

ZenMonkey
11-06-2008, 01:22 PM
Nothing is like a box squat, except a box squat. Sitting on the box breaks up the eccentric/concentric chain. Pausing doesn't.

I didnt know this... I would think pausing would do the same once you stop all motion... especially at the rock bottom of ROM?

KingWilder
11-06-2008, 05:45 PM
pausing is not the same as sitting back on a box and essentially taking the load off of your hips/thighs/etc. and then powering yourself back up.

ZenMonkey
11-06-2008, 07:03 PM
I thought you were suposed to remain very tight while on the box "sitting through". Although I still see the difference.

JHarris
11-06-2008, 08:55 PM
I'm actually a little confused by this. It seems like if you get to the absolute bottom of your range and literally rest your hamstrings on your calves, it would have the same effect as, albeit a larger range than, a box squat.

deeder
11-06-2008, 08:58 PM
I believe paused squats have their place (ie: I do them after conventional deads sometimes) but they aren't a replacement for box squats. Just do a set of paused squats then a set of box squats and you'll see what I mean...

ZenMonkey
11-06-2008, 08:59 PM
I'm actually a little confused by this. It seems like if you get to the absolute bottom of your range and literally rest your hamstrings on your calves, it would have the same effect as, albeit a larger range than, a box squat.

Thats what I was thinking. I feel the same thing when I pause at bottom of ROM and when I box squat.

Sensei
11-06-2008, 09:52 PM
Way too much arms - your arms should be relaxed here and your hips should be driving the weight:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/johnnymnemonic/clean.jpg

JHarris
11-06-2008, 11:22 PM
I believe paused squats have their place (ie: I do them after conventional deads sometimes) but they aren't a replacement for box squats. Just do a set of paused squats then a set of box squats and you'll see what I mean...

To be fair, I don't see any real use for box squats in Olympic lifting; the partial range won't be helping me at all. I am curious though - is there a reason that placing your weight on a box is different than placing your weight on your calves? I mean, it seems like in both positions, you are no straining to hold the weight beyond keeping your core tight. In my bottom position for a squat, I am not exerting myself beyond keeping myself tight.

deeder
11-06-2008, 11:35 PM
To be fair, I don't see any real use for box squats in Olympic lifting; the partial range won't be helping me at all. I am curious though - is there a reason that placing your weight on a box is different than placing your weight on your calves? I mean, it seems like in both positions, you are no straining to hold the weight beyond keeping your core tight. In my bottom position for a squat, I am not exerting myself beyond keeping myself tight.

I agree, I can't see a use for a box squat in olympic lifting either.

When performing a box squat correctly, you should be sitting WAY back. The knees should not travel forward at all. When you're on the box you can sit back a bit and allow your hip flexors to relax before you blast back up. Obviously the same can't be done in a paused squat.

JHarris
11-07-2008, 07:32 AM
Okay, that's fair. I wasn't really thinking about the sitting back issue and I think I agree that your hip flexors get to relax more. I still think they are a similar thing to paused full squats with the idea of relaxing and letting go of all your stored energy before restarting the lift.

Thanks for explaining that, by the way.

RhodeHouse
11-07-2008, 08:39 AM
Okay, that's fair. I wasn't really thinking about the sitting back issue and I think I agree that your hip flexors get to relax more. I still think they are a similar thing to paused full squats with the idea of relaxing and letting go of all your stored energy before restarting the lift.

Thanks for explaining that, by the way.

They are not the same. Regardless of what you want to think, they aren't. In the bottom of a paused squat, there is no transfer of weight. It's all on the body the whole time. On the box, you don't relax, but the load is much different than a paused squat.

JHarris
11-07-2008, 10:22 AM
So are you saying that it is different due to something like the PC having to work a lot harder off of the stopped position due to sitting backwards? Yes, the weight is not transfered in pause full squat to something else, but the stress is transfered away from the primary movers - your quads and PC in the bottom of a full squat are not doing anything. They are resting.

I don't think they are the same, but it seems like they do similar things - both appear to force you to produce a high level of force from a static position that you have to remain tight in. That different muscle groups get loaded heavier doesn't surprise me. They couldn't possibly be the exact same. They are both training aids for different motions in different sports.

RhodeHouse
11-07-2008, 09:32 PM
So are you saying that it is different due to something like the PC having to work a lot harder off of the stopped position due to sitting backwards? Yes, the weight is not transfered in pause full squat to something else, but the stress is transfered away from the primary movers - your quads and PC in the bottom of a full squat are not doing anything. They are resting.

I don't think they are the same, but it seems like they do similar things - both appear to force you to produce a high level of force from a static position that you have to remain tight in. That different muscle groups get loaded heavier doesn't surprise me. They couldn't possibly be the exact same. They are both training aids for different motions in different sports.

Now we're getting into the stuff that I just don't care about. Box Squats and Paused Squats are VERY different. Just do them and see for yourself. I don't care what you guys do. This is the point when you go to the gym and stop reading. This is paralysis by analysis. SFW, problem solved.

JHarris
11-08-2008, 12:38 PM
Now we're getting into the stuff that I just don't care about. Box Squats and Paused Squats are VERY different. Just do them and see for yourself. I don't care what you guys do. This is the point when you go to the gym and stop reading. This is paralysis by analysis. SFW, problem solved.

Okay. Then don't post in response to these sorts of questions. I've done box squats before and I didn't see the point of them for Olympic lifting. That being said, I am willing to hear more about what they are trying to accomplish as they might help some athlete out that I am coaching. It seems like they are designed to do for powerlifting what paused full squats do for olympic lifting, though, and if that is the case, they aren't useful. That's why its useful to read and think. Saves you wasted time and energy in the gym. Its not paralysis by analysis as no one's training is suffering due to the discussion.

ZenMonkey
11-08-2008, 01:47 PM
Okay. Then don't post in response to these sorts of questions. I've done box squats before and I didn't see the point of them for Olympic lifting. That being said, I am willing to hear more about what they are trying to accomplish as they might help some athlete out that I am coaching. It seems like they are designed to do for powerlifting what paused full squats do for olympic lifting, though, and if that is the case, they aren't useful. That's why its useful to read and think. Saves you wasted time and energy in the gym. Its not paralysis by analysis as no one's training is suffering due to the discussion.

Do you think the major difference is unloading the hip flexors on a box squat vs not on an ATG squat?