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guile
11-04-2008, 09:47 AM
Hi, i'm new to body building, but i think i've read up enough to be pretty well equipped to start off with,

however i thought it would be a good idea to post up my diet and get some advice on how it could be improved.

I'm 24years old, 6'0", 160lbs, 10% BF. My goal is to reach 185lbs and stay lean. I work from home, so my daily activity is fairly low, and i have good prep time, i have to prepare my meals for the weekend though, as i'm usually travelling somewhere for a gig.

This is the diet that i have started on, i haven't started training yet, that begins on Monday 10th, i'm just getting used to eating more than normal before i start. It is intended for non-workout days.

I sometimes substitue the salmon for tuna, and the chicken for beef, and i add tomatoes and lettuce to the sandwiches, with salsa, and mixed veg to the pasta. Sometimes i have an orange for my fruit with one of the meals, but it's not set into my diet every day.

http://www.guymearns.com/diet2.jpg

This is the same diet, but including the post workout shake for my workout days.

http://www.guymearns.com/diet1.jpg

My workout is going to be Mon/Wed/Fri, with some light cardio (swimming) on Tueday or Thursday.

I think the calories and protein might be a little high, but i'm not sure of how to change the diet without unbalancing each meal.



Thanks for your help!

Focused70
11-04-2008, 11:56 AM
Breakdown looks about right.

You could stand to eat more dead animals though.

guile
11-04-2008, 12:14 PM
LOL! Thanks, do you mean more dead animals aswell as everything else, or as a substitute to the others? any recommendations?

RhodeHouse
11-04-2008, 02:40 PM
Just eat. Too many pie charts and slide rules being used. Eat food and lots of it. It really doesn't matter what you eat, just eat until you're full, then keep eating. If you're gonna cry about gaining fat, don't bother trying to gain weight. Fat comes with muscle. If you don't get fatter, you won't get bigger. That's how it works.

guile
11-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Sure, i understand what you mean, but isn't keeping track of what i eat important in case something doesn't go to plan with my training, if i don't gain weight, i'll know to eat more calories, rather than just thinking 'eat more', that's a bit too amibiguous for my liking, besides, i like tracking my calories as it keeps me motivated, by having a goal to hit.

I'm certainly not gonna cry about gaining fat, i'd just prefer not to, and i'd rather stick to clean foods, because i value my health and feel alot better just eating clean.

I just want to fill out a bit, not become a powerlifter, once i reach around 185lbs, i'll just be maintaining and then toning up. I think my current diet should make this achieveble with hard training and rest.

Thanks for your input, RhodeHouse

Focused70
11-04-2008, 03:55 PM
Well if you're bulking, some fat gain is inevitable.

Rhodes' advice is on point. Bulking means going on the see food diet.

When it comes time for you to cut, then you can worry about going into a caloric deficit. Until then, have at it.

RhodeHouse
11-04-2008, 03:58 PM
Sure, i understand what you mean, but isn't keeping track of what i eat important in case something doesn't go to plan with my training, if i don't gain weight, i'll know to eat more calories, rather than just thinking 'eat more', that's a bit too amibiguous for my liking, besides, i like tracking my calories as it keeps me motivated, by having a goal to hit.

I'm certainly not gonna cry about gaining fat, i'd just prefer not to, and i'd rather stick to clean foods, because i value my health and feel alot better just eating clean.

I just want to fill out a bit, not become a powerlifter, once i reach around 185lbs, i'll just be maintaining and then toning up. I think my current diet should make this achieveble with hard training and rest.

Thanks for your input, RhodeHouse

If you don't gain weight, eat more. That's as complicated as it is. If you like more, that's on you.

And, dude, what's this "toning" crap? Be a man. Women tone up. Men get jacked. Please, don't be a metro.

40 Nunc
11-04-2008, 06:49 PM
Once again Rippetoe has a quote (or 2) that fits the situation...

1) And folks, for weight-gaining purposes, "eating clean" is not a useful concept. Big Macs are.

2) There is no such thing as “firming and toning.” There is only stronger and weaker.

NJBIG12
11-04-2008, 07:00 PM
How Do I Start My Own Thread I Kant Find It Because I Have A Big Question On Hand

guile
11-05-2008, 12:56 AM
1) And folks, for weight-gaining purposes, "eating clean" is not a useful concept. Big Macs are.

2) There is no such thing as “firming and toning.” There is only stronger and weaker.


Surely, just eating more calories than you burn is the useful concept, big macs obviously have alot of calories in, so will be useful if you arew struggling to eat alot of calories in more 'clean' food, but i'm not. I'm managing to eat around 3,800 calories a day, no sweat, so i'm sure that is a good basis for starting to put on weight.

Well, whatever you call 'firming and toning', i presume it's a way of saying "losing body fat to show the muscles that you have built", would that be more accurate for you?

Thanks for your advice guys, i'm not sure the eat big macs rule will be a good idea for me at the moment, though, as long as i'm managing to eat more calories.

guile
11-05-2008, 01:01 AM
If you don't gain weight, eat more. That's as complicated as it is. If you like more, that's on you.

And, dude, what's this "toning" crap? Be a man. Women tone up. Men get jacked. Please, don't be a metro.

Yeah, that's what i'll do, but i'll just eat more clean foods, and i'll track the calories, lol, sorry if that's too specific or technical, but if it helps me hit my goals and stay motivated then it can only be a good thing, yeah?

I'm not sure whether your last comment is helpful, why the negative attitude on 'toning'? I want to grow muscles and show them, instead of having masses of fat covering them up, that's ok isn't it? Everyone is different, and has different goals, if you want to call me a woman, that's your perogative.

CrazyK
11-05-2008, 01:02 AM
Yes forget Big Mac's. Opt for Wendy's Triple Stacker's instead. More beef, more love. Have a frosty on the side and chase it down with a milkshake.

guile
11-05-2008, 01:04 AM
I don't think we get Wendy's over here in the UK, i'm not adverse to having fast food as a treat every now and then, but certainly not every day, i know it's not good for me, anyways.

bruno77
11-10-2008, 02:00 AM
finding what to eat is so ahrd

guile
11-10-2008, 06:50 AM
I've adjusted this now to include some turkey, less fish (limiting myself to aout 2/3 portions a week, and taking fish oil capsules every day)

I've also added some cheese, swapped the potatoes for sweet potatoes, added more veg, like spinach and broccoli, and varied fruit such as apples, oranges and frozen berries.

Can't start training till wednesday, because i need to have my induction and they don't have an instructor available tonight.

Diet is going really well, though!

RhodeHouse
11-10-2008, 10:05 AM
Yeah, that's what i'll do, but i'll just eat more clean foods, and i'll track the calories, lol, sorry if that's too specific or technical, but if it helps me hit my goals and stay motivated then it can only be a good thing, yeah?

I'm not sure whether your last comment is helpful, why the negative attitude on 'toning'? I want to grow muscles and show them, instead of having masses of fat covering them up, that's ok isn't it? Everyone is different, and has different goals, if you want to call me a woman, that's your perogative.

I could care less what you do. From a guy that was 190 when he started and has reached 320, I've been there and done that without ever counting a calorie. Amazing. But, if you like pie charts and over-complicating things, go for it. I'd rather spend my time in the gym getting "toned" and less time doing math. But, I guess i just like to get results.

guile
11-14-2008, 12:48 PM
Okay, thanks for your advice, Rhodehouse. Have a nice day. :)

BulldogGST2
11-14-2008, 02:54 PM
what is the obsession around here with eating unhealthy food? if you can get in your calories with clean food, it's going to be much more beneficial to you in the long run.

Big Jay
11-14-2008, 04:57 PM
RhodeHouse ur givin Guile a bit of a hard time... to the point where I'd say you're being a jerk. You may not count cals, but the many on the board do. All respect to you for what you've accomplished but most skinny guys need to count cals and not just go by how full they feel as 1500 cals a day may make a skinny guy full.

CrazyK
11-15-2008, 02:20 PM
Guile...if you want to count cals that's fine...count them up to a point and add one messy meal a day that you don't count. Work's wonders.

guile
11-15-2008, 05:47 PM
Well everything is working wonders already to be honest, i've put on about 5lbs, in 2 weeks, form eating around 3500cal a day, and that's pretty much all clean, i like to save my 'cheats' for the weekend, when i have a few pints of cider.

I'm going to keep it up, as i'm way ahead of my planned gains, and as i get bigger, i'll just up the portions a little.

Cheers everyone for your advice, i find i'm changing my diet ever so slightly every week now, to make it more interesting and more efficient, i find it fun counting calories, and as Big Jay said, it can be important to make me aware of things, if sometimes i feel full after say 2000cal, i'll know to stuff myself some more.

I think eating clean will be fine for me, as i only want to gain around 20lbs, i doubt i'll want to be bigger than 185lbs, as long as i look lean. :)

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 12:52 AM
RhodeHouse ur givin Guile a bit of a hard time... to the point where I'd say you're being a jerk. You may not count cals, but the many on the board do. All respect to you for what you've accomplished but most skinny guys need to count cals and not just go by how full they feel as 1500 cals a day may make a skinny guy full.

This kind of response is why you young guys don't get it. I don't care if I'm a "jerk". I've been the skinny guy and I'm giving free advice on how to not be the skinny guy. If that's offensive, go to the gym, get as big as I am, and do something about it. If not, stop crying and eat.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 12:54 AM
Well everything is working wonders already to be honest, i've put on about 5lbs, in 2 weeks, form eating around 3500cal a day, and that's pretty much all clean, i like to save my 'cheats' for the weekend, when i have a few pints of cider.

I'm going to keep it up, as i'm way ahead of my planned gains, and as i get bigger, i'll just up the portions a little.

Cheers everyone for your advice, i find i'm changing my diet ever so slightly every week now, to make it more interesting and more efficient, i find it fun counting calories, and as Big Jay said, it can be important to make me aware of things, if sometimes i feel full after say 2000cal, i'll know to stuff myself some more.

I think eating clean will be fine for me, as i only want to gain around 20lbs, i doubt i'll want to be bigger than 185lbs, as long as i look lean. :)

That quote boggles my mind. Everybody wants to be lean. Why does nobody want to be strong? Disturbing. But, best of luck to you.

CrazyK
11-16-2008, 12:59 AM
[/B]

That quote boggles my mind. Everybody wants to be lean. Why does nobody want to be strong? Disturbing. But, best of luck to you.They don't realize what it takes to actually be say a ripped 240. Arnold competed at 235 in his prime. He was at least 270 in the offseason. It takes a **** load of eating to get big and a lot of discipline to diet down.

Achieving the 185 and sort of lean look is easy. Just "workout" and don't eat much.

guile
11-16-2008, 04:36 AM
I don't think i'd be happy with being bigger than 200lbs, 185lbs seems like my idea weight target, but i'll know for sure once i reach that target and see what i look and feel like. I wouldn't want to be too big, and strength isn't my main concern.

My main plan is to bulk up to around 185, and then cut down, and see where i am, i may have to bulk up to around 195 and then cut down, i'm just going to keep evaluating it as i go along.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 08:54 AM
They don't realize what it takes to actually be say a ripped 240. Arnold competed at 235 in his prime. He was at least 270 in the offseason. It takes a **** load of eating to get big and a lot of discipline to diet down.

Achieving the 185 and sort of lean look is easy. Just "workout" and don't eat much.

I see where you're coming from, dude. It just really escapes me how a man doesn't care about strength. And, I'm not talking powerlifter strength. It's a concept I can't wrap my brain around. Much like traffic on a highway. If I looked the part, but couldn't perform - what's the use. All show no go?

Abercrombie and metro's have ruined the once proud male sex. Stay strong, remaining brothers. Stay strong.

Big Jay
11-16-2008, 09:49 AM
don't think it's "Abercrombie and metro's"... its down to women. Alot of guys... maybe not on this board as its wannabeBIG... but in general i would guess alot would sacrifice a certain amount of strength to be more attractive in a woman's eyes... as most would find it more fun being in bed with a beautiful young woman that benching 350lbs. Unfortunately todays women would rather see a well defined 6 pack than big arms. Women want a man with a body of brad pitt in fight club.... they want a soccer player not an american footballer... all women? no... most women under 25? yes.
sad but true.
I'm a skinny ****er... but at 6 foot 1... I'd love to be thick 240lbs. I say they make more great movie documentaries like Pumping Iron... and get the gerenal public interested in big muscles again.

BulldogGST2
11-16-2008, 10:07 AM
They don't realize what it takes to actually be say a ripped 240. Arnold competed at 235 in his prime. He was at least 270 in the offseason. It takes a **** load of eating to get big and a lot of discipline to diet down.

Achieving the 185 and sort of lean look is easy. Just "workout" and don't eat much.

that's weird considering a very small percentage of the population is a lean 185lbs.

it seems as though there are some people with the mentality that if a person has goals different from them, they're a failure. not everyone wants to be 240lbs.

guile
11-16-2008, 10:30 AM
Well said Bulldog.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 11:31 AM
don't think it's "Abercrombie and metro's"... its down to women. Alot of guys... maybe not on this board as its wannabeBIG... but in general i would guess alot would sacrifice a certain amount of strength to be more attractive in a woman's eyes... as most would find it more fun being in bed with a beautiful young woman that benching 350lbs. Unfortunately todays women would rather see a well defined 6 pack than big arms. Women want a man with a body of brad pitt in fight club.... they want a soccer player not an american footballer... all women? no... most women under 25? yes.
sad but true.
I'm a skinny ****er... but at 6 foot 1... I'd love to be thick 240lbs. I say they make more great movie documentaries like Pumping Iron... and get the gerenal public interested in big muscles again.

That's sad. If a guy will do that for a woman, they have bigger problems than being skinny and weak. I can't believe that would be the truth. I'm not doubting what you say, that's just something I'd never do. I could go off on a whole rant here, but I'm not going to. All I have to say is, if it's for broads, I feel very badly for you. You need to think of yourself in a much more positive way. Any broad that only talks to you because you're skinny, is nothing more than a shallow tramp that onlt deserves to be treated like a dog. I guess ytou guys are young, still.

guile
11-16-2008, 11:56 AM
Yeah i agree, it's sad if that's someones primary reason for changing themselves, i doubt that would be many person's choice for changing.

I just want to fill my clothes a bit better, plus look and feel healthier, that's why strength isn't my prime concern, although it's inevitable i will gain strength through achieving my other goals.

Big Jay
11-16-2008, 01:55 PM
"i doubt that would be many person's choice for changing."

maybe not the most popular reason... but a big reason for many.

Not my reason... before people start calling me sad.

But it is a big reason... why do think there is such a focus these days on defined 6-packs? Because thats wat women like. Making you're 6-pack more definded isn't going to improve strength. It's not going to make you anymore manly. Majority of the time the only person who'll see it is your woman... unless you live sumwhere with great weather and beaches. Yes lossing the extra bodyfat is handy for athletes... but joe average who works in an office is only wanting a 6 pack to impress women.

and it is shallow of women... but how often do you see 9/10, 10/10 women... with really skinny or really fat guys..... its the way society works.

once again... not my reason. I would rather be a power lifter shape... just my opinion.

Big Jay
11-16-2008, 02:06 PM
Anyway i think we wandered from the topic of the thread.

guile im about ur height and weight. Been a lazy **** the last year but starting to get into it again. You seem well organised and motivated. hope u achieve your goals

p.s. I see your using 'My Protein' products... I use them. Quality stuff and good price for someone livin in the uk.
Next time you're buying whey you should try their 'True Whey (5lb) - Ultimate Whey Supplement'... it's very good and tastes great.

Notorious
11-16-2008, 02:14 PM
Overdoing the protein, and not enough fat.

guile
11-16-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks, Notorious, how much fat would you recommend, more around 100g?

guile
11-16-2008, 02:24 PM
guile im about ur height and weight. Been a lazy **** the last year but starting to get into it again. You seem well organised and motivated. hope u achieve your goals

p.s. I see your using 'My Protein' products... I use them. Quality stuff and good price for someone livin in the uk.
Next time you're buying whey you should try their 'True Whey (5lb) - Ultimate Whey Supplement'... it's very good and tastes great.

Sorry, Big Jay, i didn't see this reply until i posted just then.

Thanks, mate, i'm learning new things everyday, i'm going to eventually buy some creatine, dextrose and glutamine, to make my PWO shake, more effective, and i seem to be experimenting with my diet alot, tracking everything with fitday makes tweaking variables really easy.

I will check out that True Whey, when i next need some! thanks! :)

CrazyK
11-16-2008, 02:29 PM
that's weird considering a very small percentage of the population is a lean 185lbs.

it seems as though there are some people with the mentality that if a person has goals different from them, they're a failure. not everyone wants to be 240lbs.I'm not saying they're a failure, I'm saying their goals aren't very difficult to achieve.

And...you think that there are not many lean 185 lber's? Go to your local highschool and there are plenty of 14 year old's who fit the bill.

guile
11-16-2008, 02:35 PM
The average weight of a male is about 185lbs in the UK, whether or not they are lean, is a different question. lol!

BulldogGST2
11-16-2008, 03:15 PM
I'm not saying they're a failure, I'm saying their goals aren't very difficult to achieve.

And...you think that there are not many lean 185 lber's? Go to your local highschool and there are plenty of 14 year old's who fit the bill.

so you're saying that the average 14 year old boy is a lean 185lbs? you can't be serious...

i'd say maybe 5 in 100 American males who are 6'0 and shorter, are 185lbs and 12% or under.

a man who is 5'10, 185lbs and 10% has a better build than 95% of the population.

RichMcGuire
11-16-2008, 03:35 PM
so you're saying that the average 14 year old boy is a lean 185lbs? you can't be serious...

i'd say maybe 5 in 100 American males who are 6'0 and shorter, are 185lbs and 12% or under.

a man who is 5'10, 185lbs and 10% has a better build than 95% of the population.

Not to mention 60% of the population is obese. That right there takes out the theory that theres a large number of lean 185 lb'ers walking around.

I only comment on this because I started at around 130 lbs and worked my way up to a lean 180. Atm, being 174. And technically, Im overweight by a lot according to the BMI. And it was not as simple as "working out" as crazy put it. I had to do things I never normally would have.. like eating over 2,000 kcals in 1 sitting followed by gagging on peanut butter and whole milk for extra kcals and then having to sit on my knees for a good 10 minutes in order to not puke it all up. So I find it rather amusing that someone would think getting a lean 185 lbs is so easy when they dont even know what weight that person started at. For a 5'7 person like myself, it starts to get heavy.

And I'm not saying I dont want to get heavier. Even though people tell me I look big and built, I will always see a skinny person in the mirror and always want more. That sometimes is the mentality of a powerlifter or bodybuilder. And on that same note, many of us here get sick of hearing people say "I eat so much and i dont gain weight." They really have no idea how much motivation you have to have and how hard it can be. If you arent willing to go through some of the pain I mentioned, you probably wont be getting much bigger. It sounds like simple advice to just say "eat more and lift" but when it comes down to it, thats what its all about.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 03:50 PM
"i doubt that would be many person's choice for changing."

maybe not the most popular reason... but a big reason for many.

Not my reason... before people start calling me sad.

But it is a big reason... why do think there is such a focus these days on defined 6-packs? Because thats wat women like. Making you're 6-pack more definded isn't going to improve strength. It's not going to make you anymore manly. Majority of the time the only person who'll see it is your woman... unless you live sumwhere with great weather and beaches. Yes lossing the extra bodyfat is handy for athletes... but joe average who works in an office is only wanting a 6 pack to impress women.

and it is shallow of women... but how often do you see 9/10, 10/10 women... with really skinny or really fat guys..... its the way society works.

once again... not my reason. I would rather be a power lifter shape... just my opinion.


You have a screwed up view of the world.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 04:00 PM
so you're saying that the average 14 year old boy is a lean 185lbs? you can't be serious...

i'd say maybe 5 in 100 American males who are 6'0 and shorter, are 185lbs and 12% or under.

a man who is 5'10, 185lbs and 10% has a better build than 95% of the population.

What is wrong with you kids? You don't have to be as big as me, but really? Any man under 200lbs is a woman. Seriously. Have a little pride in yourself, as a man. I was 250lbs and 9% in college and I thought I was small. Now, I do have some pride in myself, and take pride in weightlifting. AFterall, this is a weightlifting forum, right? Any body can be 185lbs and lean without lifting. Hell, 185 and lean is just funny to hear. Of course you're lean. You only have bone and ligaments at 185. You haven't even gained any appreciable muscle mass to determine whether your lean or not. You an ramble on about how fat America is. Well, we lift weights, so we're already the select few. And, supposedly, we "train", although most of you workout, so again, we're an even more select few. Comparing yourselves to the fat people of the world? Why not compare yourself to those that do the same thing you do. If I compared myself to you guys, on a size and strength level, I'd be better than God. That's not an insult. My poiint is, I compare myself to those that are on my level and who I want to be like. SO, who cares if you're leaner than the fat people in this country?

My advice on our "bulking" diet, lean what bulking really means before you post a question about how to gain a few pounds.

guile
11-16-2008, 04:13 PM
What has weight got to do with pride?

I'm proud of myself regardless of my weight, i've travelled all around the world, been self employed straight out of school, work from home, and work at weekends doing a job that i love. That makes me proud.

Seriously, RhodeHouse, calling every man under 200lbs a woman is very disrespectful.

guile
11-16-2008, 04:18 PM
My advice on our "bulking" diet, lean what bulking really means before you post a question about how to gain a few pounds.

Well i didnt ask how to gain a few pounds, i know how to, you don't listen. I was asking advice on my diet that i posted, which i got, but not from you, you seem to be obsessed with belittling people, i'd say you're insecure in some sort of way, otherwise you wouldn't go so out of your way in such posts.

From this diet, i have gained 6lbs in two weeks, thats great progress for me, i couldn't care less what you thought of them gains, because as part of MY PLAN, i am way ahead on progress.

I think the moderators should close this thread, it's gotten way off topic.

Big Jay
11-16-2008, 06:49 PM
"You have a screwed up view of the world."
do i... or is the world just screwed up lol

anyway, on a serious note... I love the quote "Any man under 200lbs is a woman"... technically i should be offended that you're calling me a woman :P ... however my goal is to get way over 200lbs... so I'll use it an extra piece of motivation rather than take a womanly hissy fit

Invain
11-16-2008, 06:58 PM
Although I do have a similar mindset as far as wanting to be huge as you Rhodes, don't forget you're also 6' 4" or something close to that. 300 lbs is seriously a little over-board for certain people depending on height.


What is wrong with you kids? You don't have to be as big as me, but really? Any man under 200lbs is a woman. Seriously. Have a little pride in yourself, as a man. I was 250lbs and 9% in college and I thought I was small. Now, I do have some pride in myself, and take pride in weightlifting. AFterall, this is a weightlifting forum, right? Any body can be 185lbs and lean without lifting. Hell, 185 and lean is just funny to hear. Of course you're lean. You only have bone and ligaments at 185. You haven't even gained any appreciable muscle mass to determine whether your lean or not. You an ramble on about how fat America is. Well, we lift weights, so we're already the select few. And, supposedly, we "train", although most of you workout, so again, we're an even more select few. Comparing yourselves to the fat people of the world? Why not compare yourself to those that do the same thing you do. If I compared myself to you guys, on a size and strength level, I'd be better than God. That's not an insult. My poiint is, I compare myself to those that are on my level and who I want to be like. SO, who cares if you're leaner than the fat people in this country?

My advice on our "bulking" diet, lean what bulking really means before you post a question about how to gain a few pounds.

RichMcGuire
11-16-2008, 07:29 PM
What is wrong with you kids? You don't have to be as big as me, but really? Any man under 200lbs is a woman. Seriously. Have a little pride in yourself, as a man. I was 250lbs and 9% in college and I thought I was small. Now, I do have some pride in myself, and take pride in weightlifting. AFterall, this is a weightlifting forum, right? Any body can be 185lbs and lean without lifting. Hell, 185 and lean is just funny to hear. Of course you're lean. You only have bone and ligaments at 185. You haven't even gained any appreciable muscle mass to determine whether your lean or not. You an ramble on about how fat America is. Well, we lift weights, so we're already the select few. And, supposedly, we "train", although most of you workout, so again, we're an even more select few. Comparing yourselves to the fat people of the world? Why not compare yourself to those that do the same thing you do. If I compared myself to you guys, on a size and strength level, I'd be better than God. That's not an insult. My poiint is, I compare myself to those that are on my level and who I want to be like. SO, who cares if you're leaner than the fat people in this country?

My advice on our "bulking" diet, lean what bulking really means before you post a question about how to gain a few pounds.


Only bone and ligaments at 185? cmon. I'm sitting at around 174 at 5'7 and have quite a bit of muscle. I think you should note to my post above. Weight also depends on height. 185 lbs with a very low body fat would be fairly big for someone that is much shorter than you. Its the way it works. Its sad but just being lean in general isnt so typical in America. I dont think it helps to argue how easy builds are to achieve. Whatever goal you want to hit, for your own personal reasons based on opinions is fine. But knowing how to get there and listening is the main thing.

On that note, I agree with Rhodes. OP, I dont think you need pie charts and data spread sheets. Just substitute calorie dense foods. Instead of drinking water or pop, drink whole milk. Instead of having a lean piece of meat, have some peanut butter. Add olive oil in drinks or anything else you can think of. Go for Mcdonalds rather than subway. Theres all sorts of things. You dont really have to count. Just eat until you are full, and then eat a little more. You shouldnt be enjoying this. You might even end up dreading the thought of eating. It really depends on what youre going for.

Brad08
11-16-2008, 07:44 PM
joe average who works in an office is only wanting a 6 pack to impress women.




Joe Average is weak.

Joe Average is like everyone else.

Joe Average can't think for himself.

Joe Average does what mass media tells him.

Joe Average is a marketing agency's dream.

Joe Average is not a role model.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 07:57 PM
"You have a screwed up view of the world."
do i... or is the world just screwed up lol

anyway, on a serious note... I love the quote "Any man under 200lbs is a woman"... technically i should be offended that you're calling me a woman :P ... however my goal is to get way over 200lbs... so I'll use it an extra piece of motivation rather than take a womanly hissy fit

That's what I'm talking about. You should see the reactions I get when I tell people that in person. Classic.

RhodeHouse
11-16-2008, 07:59 PM
Although I do have a similar mindset as far as wanting to be huge as you Rhodes, don't forget you're also 6' 4" or something close to that. 300 lbs is seriously a little over-board for certain people depending on height.

I agree 100%. I don't say this stuff beliving you have to be 300lbs. Vincent Dizenzo is 5'8" and about 290lbs. I've seenhim at 328. He was beautiful. But seriously, he's in crazy shape at 290. Plus, Brian Siders told him at 5'8", he could be at leats 360, and he was serious.

RichMcGuire
11-16-2008, 08:26 PM
That's what I'm talking about. You should see the reactions I get when I tell people that in person. Classic.

I think people take things too literal on forums. If one of my guy friends does something stupid, I might call him a "fag" but obviously not mean it. Of course these individuals are men but its a saying to get people motivated into realizing its all about eating big and lifting big to achieve muscle weight.